Want to read Slashdot from your mobile device? Point it at m.slashdot.org and keep reading!

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Mozilla The Internet

A New Look For Firefox 416

ben writes "Regular users of Mozilla Firefox may be interested to know a new default theme is planned for 0.9 in preparation for the road to 1.0. 0.9 will also feature new improved theme and extension management, which will make it easy to make Firefox look the way you want it to."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

A New Look For Firefox

Comments Filter:
  • I liked the old look (Score:5, Interesting)

    by linuxci ( 3530 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @10:00AM (#9350030)
    I did prefer the old look, but then again the new one hasn't been finalised yet and is still under active development (it's been checked in but not enabled yet).

    Whatever the case, 0.9 will be an excellent release and well worth trying. However, please remember this release will have some major new features (better extension/theme management, migration of prefs from other browsers such as IE, Netscape and Opera) and then focus will be on polish and stability up to a successful 1.0 release.
  • Re:How about... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 06, 2004 @10:03AM (#9350042)
    eh? i use FF loads and don't have to do that, ever. could it be one of your extensions or sommat?
  • Thunderbird? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by mccalli ( 323026 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @10:04AM (#9350044) Homepage
    One reason given is for consistency across platform. I agree with this, but part of the 'platform' is the other software you're likely to use with it. In my case and I suspect in many others, that means Thunderbird.

    Will Thunderbird be following suite and changing default theme too?

    Cheers,
    Ian

  • by Fnkmaster ( 89084 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @10:15AM (#9350109)
    Sorry to sound like a prick, but some of the lead Mozilla developers have turned into incredibly unresponsive pricks that don't know how to delegate and assign authority properly. I respect their hard work immensely, but their attitude and arrogance on certain issues continues to mystify me. Look at this new theme at the top of this thread [mozillazine.org]. This is beyond atrocious. This is because the Mozilla devs don't know how to resolve differences with other people, and they REPEATEDLY have shown a complete indifference to aesthetic issues in the browser and an unwillingness to make use of the talents of the many artists out there who would be very willing to help create good splashscreens, icons and so on, a rather critical part of a mass market desktop application that we want people to adopt (in the interests of a more secure, standards-compliant web).


    Yes, Arvid Axelsson, the author of the current default theme (Qute), may have a bit of an ego himself, and may have been reluctant to freely license his artwork under the same MPL terms as the Mozilla codebase. But he's a reasonable person, and he's indicated he's willing to compromise and do a Free license that works for the Mozilla team, because he wants to make sure that Firefox succeeds, and has the best, most aesthetically pleasing look and feel possible.


    For God's FUCKING sake you egomaniacs (and anybody who has followed some of these discussions over the last few years knows this is true - see the splashscreen debacle in Bugzilla, the many UI layout discussions, and the naming debacles for examples), we are relying on you and the excellent browser you have created and maintained. We respect immensely all the hard work the Mozilla and Firefox core developers have done, but their lackadaisical attitude towards branding of their product (Phoenix/Firebird/Firefox?), the terrible aesthetics of the splashscreens and icon sets they keep putting back in are just unacceptable. Qute was the best thing that ever happened to Firefox and the Mozilla project - compare to the awful looking old versions of the Mozilla browser - ugh.


    You are the developers and project leaders of a critical mass-market product. If there is truly an unresolvable licensing issue with the current icons and their author is unwilling to compromise, come out and tell us, and assign a group of artists or other aesthetically inclined technology professionals to consider submissions for a new default. Realize that your contributions, while critical, do not need to include drawing shitty icons or making terrible off-the-cuff aesthetic decisions that have a negative impact on the adoption of a critical product for the entire Internet's wellbeing.

  • by igrp ( 732252 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @10:18AM (#9350125)
    I agree. Most people I introduced to Mozilla were impressed by two features: the pop-up blocker and its feeling. Many remarked that it just felt "right". That's one of the biggest compliments you can pay to a UI designer: if the user doesn't feel that there's a transition period and can get started right away then you've done something right.

    Personally, I'm more of an "I don't care how it looks as long as it works" guy but I agree that the Qute theme looks great and I always felt comfortable using it. I guess variety is a good thing but I'd much rather see them sort out their differences and stick with Qute.

  • Re:opera vs firefox? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by elFarto the 2nd ( 709099 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @10:20AM (#9350137)

    May I suggest you fire up Firefox again, and type

    about:config
    into the address bar and hit enter.

    More options than you could shake a very large stick at

    Also, Character Encoding is in the view menu.

    Regards
    elFarto
  • by Dano ( 2872 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @10:39AM (#9350257)
    "..We respect immensely all the hard work the Mozilla and Firefox core developers have done, but.."

    Read your own subject line and then tell me during which part of your response you were respectful of them and their work.
  • HCI anyone?? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by the_true_cirrus ( 559825 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @10:50AM (#9350320) Homepage
    Why oh why do they want cross platform uniformity??

    One of the most basic principles of human-computer interaction is consistency. Windows users expect to see Windows-like apps, Mac OS X ppl expect native OS X looking apps and likewise for GNOME, KDE and whatever else.

    Anything that breaks that (for example an OS X app that looks and/or behaves like a Windows app goes against the user's expections. And ultimately that makes the app harder for them to use and hence less appealing.

    Granted there is a lot of similarity between the various desktop environments but they do each also have their own quirks. For example OS X apps have the toolbar along the top of the screen (not part of the app window) and have that little window-resizing thing in the bottom-right corner of a window (not part of the window's border). GNOME and KDE generally have different standard back, forward, reload etc icons for buttons that all apps should use rather than their own.

    If you make Firefox look the same on every platform you will be breaking such little quirks and conventions on some (possibly all) platforms and the users will suffer.

    I say make a different, native looking (and feeling) theme for each major platform and ship it as the default for that platform!

    As for branding - you've got the name, you've got the firefox icon - they stay the same on every platform - surely that's all that's needed.

    Personally I think that's a good thing too. I for one perceive it as really annoying and intrusive when I install an app that insists on planting it's icons all over my desktop, installing a pointless system tray icon and making itself the default player/browser/whatever (eg RealPlayer or QuickTime on Windows) - it feels like I get the branding forced down my throat and that does NOT make me a happy user! Apps that don't feel the need to do that are a breath of fresh air and it would be a real shame for Firefox to go down the road of excessive branding.
  • Slashdot Rendering (Score:2, Interesting)

    by md81544 ( 619625 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @11:08AM (#9350431) Homepage
    Apologies for only just vaguely being on-topic - but does anyone know what the progress is on the Slashdot rendering problem under Firefox (it gets mentioned regularly when Firefox comes up as a topic). I would have thought it would be an important fix for the Slash guys to put in, as I regularly have to refresh a page three or four times before I get any text in the main boxes. This can't help bandwidth...
  • by bogie ( 31020 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @11:13AM (#9350456) Journal
    This is just indicitive of the way the entire Phoenix/Firefox project has been handled from day one on issues that actual users are interested in. They devs simple are not interested in taking in and responding to feedback from users on issues that users really care about like aesthetics. Look at the bugzilla voting system for an example. No matter how many votes a bug gets the devs could care less. Yes at some point someone needs to step in and say "This is how its going to be", but jeez at least try to make it look like you value the opinion of the people who have been bug testing and promoting *zilla for years and years now.

    I still use Firefox but I don't particpate anymore. I don't file bugs and I don't post in the forums. If the developers are going to continue to not pay attention to the users then they are losing IMHO their greatest strength outside the actual merit of the products themselves.

    Call me a drama queen. Explain how I'm wrong. But don't discount the fact that many people right or wrong feel the same way as I do.
  • Plastikfox (Score:3, Interesting)

    by twener ( 603089 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @11:14AM (#9350465)
    I don't care about the default look as long there is Plastik for Firefox [kde-look.org] available which also includes Crystal icons and Cancel<->OK button swap.
  • Re:GTK 2 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by damiam ( 409504 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @11:19AM (#9350498)
    Firefox isn't well-threaded on any platform (I'm using it under Windows on a dual Athlon and it hangs when I load a complex page into one tab). QT wouldn't change that.

    I'd be intrigued to hear why you believe GTK is so "fundamentally backwards", seeing as just about every useful Linux app (except for maybe KDevelop, K3B, and OO.o) is written in it.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 06, 2004 @11:22AM (#9350513)
    ..like the CSS rendering. Horrible.

    Not to start a flamwar, but it's sad when IE can render CSS better.

    Need proof? display: inline; doesn't work. For those that don't know, if you have 3 divs and set them all to "display: inline;" it will align them horizontally similar to TD tags.

    display: block; is supposed to align them vertically, much like the TR tag does.

    There's a laundry list of other very BASIC CSS styles that will not render properly, and it's very odd that such very basic things don't work or function properly.
  • Idiots love skins (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Tom ( 822 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @11:33AM (#9350566) Homepage Journal
    Actually, the look of things is about the only thing that even total idiots do change about their computers.

    Many, many thousands of machines out there run without having ever been update since install, with every service under the sun enabled, and probably with the default passwords still in place. However, these same machines have custom backgrounds, colour cursors, sound effects and a dozen screensavers.

    Skins are big with people who don't know how to change the Start menu and believe Linux must be a windos program, because how can something run on a computer if it isn't a windos program?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 06, 2004 @11:40AM (#9350600)
    4/10 troll, it works fine.
    <html>
    <head>
    <style type="text/css">

    h1 { display: block; }
    h2 { display: inline; }

    </style>
    </head>
    <body>
    <h1>Th is </h1>
    <h1>Is </h1>
    <h1>Block </h1>
    <h2>This </h2><h2>Is </h2><h2>Inline</h2>
    </body>
    </html>
  • by cgenman ( 325138 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @11:49AM (#9350660) Homepage
    Parent has a very good point. IE still freaks out with regular use, bloating up to tremendous size and crashing. Opera (which I'm writing this on now) also crashes, perhaps once a day. It's not such a big deal in Opera, because it saves what pages you're looking at, but it still happens. Mozilla crashes. iCab crashes. I can't vouch for Konqueror or Safari, as I haven't spent enough time with either.

    In short, while bugs are annoying, FireFox isn't buggier than any of the other browsers out there, and in some comparisons is a lot less buggy. Compared to Opera's break-fix development cycle, FireFox is a rock of gibraltar.

  • by FooBarWidget ( 556006 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @11:50AM (#9350664)
    Ok/Cancel or Cancel/OK buttons are fundamentally flawed, and outdated. Both GNOME and KDE use action verbs, just like MacOS X. So instead ok Cancel/OK you can Discard/Save or something.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 06, 2004 @12:00PM (#9350746)
    Before calling someone a troll, please invest a little more time than basic examples.

    Proof:

    <html>
    <head>
    <style>
    #test, #test2
    {
    display: inline;
    width: 250px;
    padding: 0px;
    margin-top: 10px;
    margin-right: 10px;
    vertical-align: top;
    border: solid 1px #333333;
    }
    </style>
    </head>
    <body>
    <div id="test">
    <div class="a">aaa</div>
    <div class="b">bbb</div>
    <div class="c">ccc</div>
    <div class="a">aaa</div>
    <div class="b">bbb</div>
    <div class="c">ccc</div>
    </div>
    <div id="test2">
    <div class="a">aaa</div>
    <div class="b">bbb</div>
    <div class="c">ccc</div>
    <div class="a">aaa</div>
    <div class="b">bbb</div>
    <div class="c">ccc</div>
    </div>
    </body>
    </html>
  • by STrinity ( 723872 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @12:04PM (#9350781) Homepage
    I think the most telling thing about Goodger is that he absolutely hates TBE [sakura.ne.jp], probably the most popular extension out there, because it makes drastic alterations to the code, but he's made no effort to change Firefox so that TBE would be unnecessary.
  • by Chreo ( 694625 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @12:37PM (#9350996)
    The Mozilla devs did the right thing and asked about having Qute freely licenced 6 months ago.
    From my reading of Ben's post in response he wrote that Arvid "INDICATED" (according to Ben) that he was not ok about having others create derivative works using stuff from the Qute theme.

    Now, to me, an important product as Mozilla require a "final answer" from Arvid on such an issue i.e. "The license on Qute have to be changed or we need to replace Qute with another theme. Will you change the license?". A final "no" then, would entitle the Moz devs to change default theme. It seems unfair both to Arvid and the creators of the new theme to not having cleared this issue before.
  • SVG Support (Score:5, Interesting)

    by kiyut ( 785172 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @01:02PM (#9351148) Homepage
    How about firefox native SVG support? Does anyone know if native SVG is included by default install?
  • FireFork? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by gumpish ( 682245 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @01:31PM (#9351301) Journal
    Will this blunder by Goodger & Co. be the straw the broke the camel's back and cause a FireFox fork (FireFork?) to rise to prominence, a la the XFree86 story?

    We can only hope.
  • by Malc ( 1751 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @01:42PM (#9351361)
    You're right, and it's been going on for years. Just look at the duplicating/cloning new window bug. People have been begging for it for years because they like the way IE does it. The devs didn't like that feature and acted like pricks about it. I lost interest in even considering getting involved. These days you can get the functionality via the excellent Tabbrowser extension... I just wish it were implemented in the core code base with an option to enable or disable it. Oh well, and you wonder why Apple really chose KHTML... I wouldn't want to have to deal with the Mozilla team.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 06, 2004 @02:50PM (#9351721)
    I hate the way extensions currently work in Firefox, where each one decides where and how to intall itself. In particular, many plugins try to install themselves in the Firefox main folder rather than in the user's profile directory; this is not only annoying for those who want different plugin sets for different users, but it flat out prevents some people from installing some plugins (I cannot install any of the Mycroft quick search plugins because of this, for example).

    Not only that, but there is currently no consistent way to remove extensions, either; each one has to provide its own removal method. An extension manager that provides an uninstall function would be nice, but what would be nicer is if I could install a plugin simply but placing a file in the plugin directory, and uninstall it by removing that file. Simple, intuititve, and it doesn't preclude having a nice extension manager on top, either. In fact, this is exactly how the old Extension Manager on pre-OS X Macs worked: disabling an extension would simply move it to a folder called "Extensions (Disabled)" in the System folder.

    Mike
  • Re:Well he could... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Kyouryuu ( 685884 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @03:02PM (#9351791) Homepage
    Perhaps, but even then you have to hit a fundamental limit. Even if you swap out applications to compensate for the rising demand, at some point that demand is going to outpace the available RAM. Then what? Linux is not immune to this either, though perhaps it handles it more gracefully. Windows XP goes into a very sluggish, stuttering mode where it becomes difficult to innoculate the offending program.

    But on a more basic level, while Microsoft can work to prevent thrashing, program authors also need to fix legitimate memory leakages. Otherwise, it's like asking the government to step in to regulate something because people are too lazy to fix their own problems (i.e. video game violence, movie violence, fast food lawsuits, etc). It's really not Microsoft's responsibility to "Make Firefox not leak memory." Microsoft's job is to handle the "thrashing" gracefully if and when it does happen.

  • Re:It's just Windows (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Kyouryuu ( 685884 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @03:05PM (#9351801) Homepage
    It would also probably cut the number of web pages you can view by half as well.

    I still write in HTML 4.0 Transitional and validate it. Why should I be left out? XHTML is unnecessarily complex for my needs. At the end of the day, I merely want a site that looks reasonably good and is functional. I don't really need the wizardry and features XHTML can offer.

  • Re:It's just Windows (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday June 06, 2004 @03:07PM (#9351811)
    > It may be just me but when the 'lean', 'no-nonsense' and 'stripped' version of software requires 27MB to run with two open tags I think it's perfectly fine to blame the developers of that software,

    I would agree with you if it still were 1990's. But today, memory is dirt cheap, new computers tend to have 256MB to 512MB fast, real memory and lot's of more virtual memory, which works very well in modern operating systems, like linux and other unix-like operating systems. What difference does it really make if a software requires 27MB to run?

    In field of embedded software the thing is different but AFAIK Mozilla is not targeting that field. Actually with a real OS it would not matter the requirement would be double or quadruple. All that memory is not needed all the time, ad as said, virtual memory works fine.
  • Re:The new theme (Score:2, Interesting)

    by ratsnapple tea ( 686697 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @03:31PM (#9351924)
    Wrong, wrong, wrong.

    This is why Linux will never gain significant market share on the desktop--it's being dumbed down in all the wrong ways, due to arrogant notions like these from smug Slashdotters who insist on looking down on average users. You know the kind. Average users like the doctor who performed a coronary bypass on you last year. Average users like the Pulitzer-winning journalist who wonders why she has to endure a ten-step wizard just to save a document. Is it because she's stupid? Or is it because some acne-faced programmer thought she would be stupid?
  • IE style favorites (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Tekoneiric ( 590239 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @06:11PM (#9352762) Journal
    I just they'd enable a user to select IE style favorite handling (in .lnk files) if a user wanted it. I prefer the way IE handles favorites.
  • by Futurepower(R) ( 558542 ) on Sunday June 06, 2004 @07:20PM (#9353089) Homepage

    Except that when you reach the memory limit in Windows XP, the OS often becomes unstable, and remains unstable until you reboot.

    Something is wrong with MS memory management, but I have never been able to determine what makes it go bonkers.

    You say, "All that you need to do...". That's a good nickname for Windows XP. It's an "All that you need to do..." operating system. Go a little bit deep into how it works, and you begin experiencing its sloppiness.

The hardest part of climbing the ladder of success is getting through the crowd at the bottom.

Working...