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Casio's Credit Card Watch 142

Posted by michael from the calculator-watches-suddenly-uncool dept.
Takuryu writes "Casio, working with Japanese credit card company, JCB, has developed a combination credit card wristwatch. Workers at the main JCB office wear the RFID tagged watches and use them for security access at the office, as well as for paying for lunch in the cafeteria. I wonder what percentage of employees they have tagged?"
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Casio's Credit Card Watch More

Casio's Credit Card Watch

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  • Bring on the comments (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Dizzle ( 781717 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:07AM (#9411509) Journal
    We all know what's going to be said. The watch is easily stolen. Has been for years and years. That's what makes it so appealing to criminals. This isn't going to catch on and for good reason. The security on these devices sounds like nothing at all.

    • Re:Bring on the comments (Score:5, Insightful)

      by lambent ( 234167 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:15AM (#9411545)
      And what's the security on your regular plastic credit card? That there's a non-verifiable signature on it that most merchants never check? That sometimes, for an online sale, the merchant asks you to turn over the card and input that 3-4 number code on the back?

      If anybody ever gets physical access to your stuff, it's pretty much always game-over. Doesn't matter if it's your wallet, cc-watch, speedpass, or whatever you use.
      • Your index finger.... but even fingerprint readers have been fooled.

        The only thing that isn't forgeable is passwords - until we learn how to read minds.
        • That's what looking over sholders is for. With enough determination anything is defeatable.

          The comment on wondering how many were tagged reminded me of the RFID tagsd we use on cattle. We know how much each steer in our feed lot eats and when they do it.

        • (http://analogkid.net/)
          Your index finger.... but even fingerprint readers have been fooled.

          The real problem with using a fingerprint as gospel is what do you do once your fingerprint has been lifted and duplicated?
          Cut off your finger and grow a new one?

          Basically, you're fscked for life.

          Regards,
          --
          *Art
      • But with a card, you can usually tell whether or not somebody has physical access to it. Sure, the waiter could copy the number, but at least you know you gave it to him. With an RFID device, a reader could conceivably grab your number while you were just walking down the street.
        • Good thing there is such a device as a passive RFID chip, where the VCC is powered via inductive coupling with the chip itself. The range can be "configured" to be quite small - thus you are safe. The scary thing is the credit card receipt copy that the merchant keep that actually contain your number and expiry date!

          • Re:Bring on the comments (Score:5, Insightful)

            by zurab ( 188064 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @05:22AM (#9412052)
            The range can be "configured" to be quite small - thus you are safe.

            No, you are not. No matter how small the range, you can still get scanned in public places like crowded buses and other transportation as well as theaters, shopping malls, events with crowded people, or even while standing in line. The difference is that a thief does not have to pick your pocket. The thing should definitely have an on/off switch; except that that's not how most, if not all, passive RFID chips work.

            The scary thing is the credit card receipt copy that the merchant keep that actually contain your number and expiry date!

            That is why most relatively new credit card processing machines do not print the credit card number (maybe only last 4 digits) or an expiry date on the receipt. Obviously, manual processing of the credit card is not as "safe."
      • And don't forget this point:

        If you lose your watch, or if it gets stolen... chances are, the crook won't realise there's credit card information *in it*. There'll be a pretty good chance they'll think it's any other watch. Unless it says "CREDIT CARD WATCH" on the wristband...

      • And what's the security on your regular plastic credit card?

        That sucky security is in essence being grandfathered in is no excuse for new products and solutions to lack in that department.
      • That there's a non-verifiable signature on it that most merchants never check?

        That's a good point.

        I actually write "ASK FOR PHOTO ID" on the back of my cards. Only about 50% actually do it.

    • Re:Bring on the comments (Score:5, Insightful)

      by AlphaPB ( 741406 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:26AM (#9411595)
      The usual procedure after a theft of one's smart card is to cancel that particular card, just as one would cancel a credit card. However, since most smart cards are debit-based systems, there might not be any theft protection limit like that in regular credit cards (where the cardholder is responsible for $50, then the rest is taken care of by the company).

      Since this is a credit card watch, I suppose the credit card company would treat it as regular card. In that case, the only reason that this would be a bad idea is that it most likely won't have the cardholder's signature on it for verification purposes, making it easier for the thief to use the card. Most clerks in America don't bother to check the signature anyway, so I don't see this as much of a problem.

      The watch is easily stolen. Has been for years and years. That's what makes it so appealing to criminals.

      If you're saying that it's just easy to steal a watch that is in plain view, I'd say that it's mostly expected that people carry around wallets and cell phones, so it doesn't make a thief more likely to rob a person wearing a watch. Unless, of course, they target people wearing fancy-looking watches. In that case, the ugly plastic quartz watch in the article will have the unexpected benefit of deterring thieves.

      • "paying lunch in cafeteria" sounds just like some system like at spa's where they just get the number from the changing room key and bill you later(from your salary probably in this case, at spa's they bill you when you leave).

        It's just a very easy and convinient(and a bit more trusty) way of saying your account number to the clerk..

        it doesn't bring in any new problems(old style visa credit cards are very easily copied, in fact, you just need the numbers anyways so you can just copy them without stealing
      • The possiblity of fraud -after- the card is cancelled isn't possible in electronic transactions. This one doesn't allow any other kind.
        It would be nice if it stopped working as a watch once identified as cancelled.
    • It's a lot harder to lift a pocketwatch off someone walking down the road than it is to lift someone's wallet out of their back pocket. It takes much more sill, and thus the number of crooks you run into who could get away with it would be smaller.

      Also, it would be relatively easy to include on the back of the watch a small thermal sensor. When you put the watch on in the morning, it asks for your PIN to activate the RFID credit card. Then, if the watches thermal sensor ever detects that it is off the skin
    • Except that Felica system also implements smart-cash capabilities, where you precharge your card with money, and when that's done, you either recharge with your own money or you stop using it (actually, in Japan, there're two competing methods that use the same Felica cards, Edy by Bit Wallet (which I think is a Sony subsidiary) and Suica Electronic Money (done by JR East, and it started as a refillable train ticket).

      Now, Edy has the capability to be externally linked with your credit card (which certainly

  • Security?? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Drooling_Sheep ( 683079 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:11AM (#9411526)
    Are the watches protected from simply scanning everyones as they walk past and collecting thousands of credit card numbers? Or someone could set up a series of stations throughout a mall that charge small innocuous looking charges to cars from "shell" corporations and do like they did in Office Space.

    • Re:Security?? (Score:2, Insightful)

      by ryan89 ( 586976 )
      I doubt the actual credit card number is stored on the watch. I have one of those SpeedPass keychains for Mobil gas stations that has an RFID like tag in it. It doesnt store the credit card number, but a unique ID that when I pump gas, it will read the number and charge the account associated with it. I would hope these work the same way. Kind of like how the PIN number for your debit card isn't actually stored on the magnetic strip of the card.

      • Re:Security?? (Score:2, Insightful)

        by PatHMV ( 701344 )
        It's a number which, if transmitted in the proper format, will allow access to your credit. Thus, it is a credit card number for all intents and purposes. That it's a different number than the one printed on your old fashioned card doesn't matter.
        • And I might add that anyone fairly skilled in electronics design can build a decently long-range RFID reader/retransmitter, so why anyone would rely on something RFID based for anything remotely sensitive is far beyond me. I would think the only even remotely secure way of doing this would be to use something like bluetooth with an encrypted number and rotating key scheme or something. This would at least be marginally harder to crack.
        • ... not technology.

          If your petrol station reads a unique ID that *isn't * your credit card number off the card, and hands it off to the bank, it's far easier to check that card 0144829 (belonging to Patrick Martin) was scanned by reader 2841 (pump 4) at retailer 22019 (Esso Canniesburn Road, G61 ???). Now, since the credit authorisation bureau know that Esso are allowed to accept your card, that's great, it works. If J Random Crook gets hold of the number he would also have to spoof the reader and store

          • So, we apply a little bit of public-key encryption, and it makes it pretty much impossible.
            The problem with RFID is that is is a passive device(it just coughs up the info whenever it's asked), thus it cannot encrypt info with the gas station's public key. Now the ID itself could be encrytped with a public key of the user, but that does nothing to stop "replay' attacks, ie the attacker "records" the id and replays it whenever he wants to charge something to the account(obviously he can only use it in plac
            • True, but as I said, it's only one part of a fairly lengthy process, that ultimately would only be used to flag up unusual behaviour. Certainly "smart" RFID number plates with encryption built-in for cars would be piss easy, you've got a horking great battery there that keeps power for a couple of weeks when it's left unattended.

          • After reading Gordon's somewhat lengthy description of how this would work, where's the advantage in this idea and who benefits most from it? This seems like a techno solution to a non-problem. See also electronic voting.
            • Credit card companies could say "Y'know for an extra 87p per month we can check purchases against your purchasing history, so that if eeeevil haxx0rs steal your credit card number and use it to by child porn on tha Intarweb we can catch them" - and people will cheerfully buy it. The customer has an illusion of security, and the credit card company increases its profits. Everyone's a winner.
    • The worry is that someone will set up a scanner in a vending machine and rob people who walk by. I'm not sure how these things will practically work, especially if everything has an RFID tag in it. A scammer can collect all the numbers it can and try them out one at a time. The legitimate vendor has the same problem. It will be creepy enough to have the billboard recognize you by the RFID in your shoes. Lining your wallet with foil might keep you from being ripped off, but I doubt it.

      I'm going to pat

    • Even if an RFID version of the watch was made, they could use the "weaker" type of RFID that can only be read within shorter distances. My guess is that the FeliCa IC chip used by the watch mentioned in the article doesn't actually give out the credit card number ever.
    • I bet they don't carry CC numbers as such. It's just that the guy files a paper with his CC number when acquiring the watch, then at the cafe the barman just presses "cash from RFID" and the watch ID gets associated with CC# in the company database and charge the card for the purchase. Anyone without access to the cash register won't have any use for the ID unless they manage to rebuild just the same kind of chip.

  • This should be standard (Score:3, Funny)

    by crem_d_genes ( 726860 ) * on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:11AM (#9411528)
    As a retirement watch.

  • Chicken and the Egg (Score:5, Funny)

    by Basehart ( 633304 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:12AM (#9411531)
    Who will the be the first to buy a watch with a watch I wonder?
  • I mean, how hard is it to just swipe a card? Are they that insecure about their appearance that they don't want to wear security ID badges around their necks? Using RFID for security badges and charge cards seems to me like a solution in search of a problem...
    • "I mean, how hard is it to just swipe a card? ... Using RFID for security badges and charge cards seems to me like a solution in search of a problem..."

      Oh please. All one has to do is imagine the difference between using RFID and going through all the steps to remove the card from your wallet and put it back to understand that this is kinda neat. Okay, not Earth shattering, but it's still kinda neat. Can you honestly tell me that you've never been driving home and had that paranoid "OMG!! Did I forget

  • So Store clerks swipe your watch now? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by billstewart ( 78916 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:13AM (#9411534) Journal
    And does this means they're going to steal it, or just cram it into that narrow slot in the reader?
  • How are they going to check the signature? This doesn't seem too secure.

    • PIN number.

      Besides, I haven't had a single clerk ever compare my signature to my card before.
    • Well, in the UK - slow as we may be - since other European countries /Australia had the system called CHIP AND PIN, and basically instead of signing (which, I - since I work in retail - check every time) they enter their PIN number.

      Much safer and reliable IMHO.

      The technology is slowly working its way into retail, and I think it'll be fully implemented by the end of the year.

  • Finally a great way for the cafeteria staff to calculate lunch order statistics!

  • Looks sweet (Score:3, Insightful)

    by gid13 ( 620803 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:15AM (#9411542)
    I find it ironic that, in my opinion, the main reason this has a good chance of catching on is that it looks really good.

  • This is very efficient (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    For muggers.

    Instead of "Give me your money and your watch!" they'll be able to just say "Give me your watch!" With the time the save, they'll be able to rob 50% more people.

  • Good Concept but.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Shivantrill ( 654978 ) * on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:19AM (#9411563)
    This is a good concept on the surface. I know I hate having to wear my goofy security badge to gain access to our offices.
    One problem I see is privacy. I have always thought that having to key in and out of work insures security but also tracks your movements. My security badge has to be really close to the reader to register, RFID tags have more range right? So what is to stop an employer from tracking your every move. I know it sounds paranoid but some companies are really strict with breaks and things.
    The other problem I see is wearability and security.
    Security because watches are easily lost, stolen, left behind... Since there is no picture on the watch to verify the person, presumably anyone can use anyone else's.
    Wearability because as a female, I own at least 3 watches to suit my moods and clothing. With everyone having the same watch, we are one step closer to uniformity. This squelches uniqueness and creativity.

    • Re:Good Concept but.... (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Wearability because as a female, I own at least 3 watches to suit my moods and clothing
      I'm sorry ma'am, you must be lost, this is Slashdot for heaven's sake! Could I interest you in a combination watch/compass?
    • Wearability because as a female, I own at least 3 watches to suit my moods and clothing. With everyone having the same watch, we are one step closer to uniformity. This squelches uniqueness and creativity.

      I was always under the impression that women already enjoyed a great deal more latitude than men in choice of clothing in a business environment. I mean, there's only so many variations on "dark suit, shirt, tie" that a guy can work with....

      Carry the security watch in your purse and wear whatever fash

  • Too fast (Score:1, Redundant)

    by acceber ( 777067 )
    Interesting, but that is probably too technologically advanced for most people. New technology seeks to make the lives of people more efficient but there has to be a threshold on whats realistically acceptable and what's not.

    Also, I don't see how the credit card watch can serve as "identification points" as a normal credit card does.

  • Beware (Score:4, Funny)

    by buckhead_buddy ( 186384 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:19AM (#9411569)
    So if your boss calls you over for a second to talk to him in the lunch room, it'll probably be because he's trying to get a free meal off of your proximity to the cashier.

    When this idea is suggested for computer password replacements I always think of my sleazy coworkers from four jobs ago who would have someone distract me near my cubicle ("Can you dig that pen out from behind the desk? It's my favorite!") while someone else uses my logged in computer.

    Grrr...

    • Re:Beware (Score:1, Interesting)

      by atarione ( 601740 )
      this is why i always 'lock' my computer at work when ever i'm not actively using it. I cringe when I see all the terminals people have walked away from wide open and unattended.

      hell the funny thing is it's habit I lock my PC at home when getting up for a minute.

    • Re:Beware (Score:2, Interesting)

      by SacredPhish ( 787751 )
      Totally. I woudn't want one of these watches unless I could store all my credit cards on in, plus all my network passwords, social security number and my driver's license number. Maybe you can use the watch to scan your previous order at the caf, and have it paid for and waiting for you to pick up?

  • Higher Math (Score:3, Funny)

    by crem_d_genes ( 726860 ) * on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:21AM (#9411576)
    "I wonder what percentage of employees they have tagged?

    100%.

  • Hide your money. (Score:4, Informative)

    by twitter ( 104583 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:23AM (#9411582) Homepage Journal
    At first glance, this looked really dumb. Why not put the silly RFID into the ID card most corporate types are forced to wear around their necks like so many tagged cows? Sure, there's a picture of one like that on the linked article. How about people who have a sentimental attachment to their current watch? Then the brain kicked in, this is just a demo and there may be something good about RFIDs after all.

    Being able to hide your credit anywhere has an appeal. Sure, a mugger might ask for your cheap watch, but would they bother with your ink pen? Kinda cool to be able to give one your wallet without fear. Of course, in my case, the mugger will know which object has my credit. It will be the one wrapped in tin foil.

    RFIDs creep me out. Someone being able to identify me by a device in my shoes, in my car's tires, in my shirt? It's weird and the nasty part is that no one I care about will have the ability, just big dumb companies that want to milk me. Vending machines that can take my money while I walk by are more bothersome still. I have a feeling that foil liners will become very fashionable soon, but it won't really work.

  • security (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Sinful_Shirts ( 784047 )
    Ok, I'm not an expert but if your watch is emitting your credit card information.... how can that be secure?
  • does this mean i can use my Roleks watch with my Viza credit card account?

  • Discovery Channel (Score:5, Funny)

    by Tokerat ( 150341 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:34AM (#9411623) Journal

    ...the engineers are then released back into the wild so that scientists can study their movements. One day, it may lead to the discovery of just how Casio is surviving in the wild this day in age.

    /commercial break

  • I can wait... (Score:2, Funny)

    by radd0 ( 558899 )
    I'm holding out for the JCB creditcard hand and forehead.

  • I can't wait... (Score:5, Funny)

    by lewko ( 195646 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:47AM (#9411658) Homepage
    [Waving hand at RFID reader adjacent to cash register]

    Me: You will give me french fries

    Clerk: Yes, I will give you french fries...

  • The wristwatch has had its day... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by lewko ( 195646 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:55AM (#9411676) Homepage
    The article mentions one of the more popular timepieces for Japanese kids is "NTT Docomo" (their mobile phone).

    I haven't worn a watch since I last sat an exam. between my computer when I'm at my desk or PDA, phone and until recently pager when I'm not (all banned from aforesaid exam room), I always know what the time is. Indeed most of the time I don't really need to know what the time it is as my PDA will beep when I need to be somewhere. The rest of the time, who cares?

    Unless vendors can integrate existing devices into a wristwatch, I suspect its days might be numbered. Even this possibility seems unlikely as the screens and data-entry possibilities for wristwatches are somewhat limited.

    Then again... They said we'd be in the paperless office by now. I don't see the pencil on the way out.
    • Same here. My watch batteries died a couple months back, and I realized I didn't need it - just use the cell clock, and then there's the added benefit that I don't keep finding the strap annoying while I'm at the keyboard - for months I'd been habitually putting the watch on in the morning, going to work, then taking it off when I start typing. Much better without it.
    • "Kids" don't buy Docomo. They buy au mainly because it's much cheaper but also because the phones are more youth-oriented. Second choice might be Vodafone, but they've dropped the ball spectacularly over the past 18 months with phones that neither attract young users nor business users (inability to sync with anything) so right now it might be a toss-up between Vodafone and Docomo. Everyone else (mostly) buys Docomo. But kids don't.

  • 666 (Score:5, Funny)

    by TheLoneCabbage ( 323135 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @02:56AM (#9411680) Homepage
    When I was a teenager one of my good friends was a Christian fundamentalist. (I'm NOT) His high school would suspend anyone who purchased a pager (this was just before cell phones were ubiquitous). Their reasoning wasn't that it disrupted class or was a drug dealer thing (sheesh), but that it was the mark of the Devil. You know 666. The theory was that beepers were just the first stage in a series of moves by the DEVIL HIMSELF to accustom us to being tagged, and that eventually we would all be given the mark of the devil.

    Now I'm not about to start following his bizarre religious practices (especially since they lead him to being institutionalized), but you gotta give the wing nut some credit. We all started carrying pagers, cell phones, then GPS, and now people aren't even thinking twice when they are asked to stick a radio transceiver on their person (or in it!).

    It's like cooking a frog. Stick it in while the pan is hot and he'll just jump out. But if you turn up the heat slowly he never knows it till it's too late.

    • You would think that eventually the frog would think "fuck that's hot, that's where I draw the line, then jump out." I think the closest we have come to the "mark of the beast" was the Larry Ellison backed national ID card plan. This is the reason I dislike Larry Ellison, he would steal our liberty and anonymity for profit. I think most people will draw the line somewhere.

  • I can here it now! (Score:3, Funny)

    by katchins ( 180997 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @03:15AM (#9411720) Homepage
    Honey, can I borrow your watch? I need to do some shopping!
  • This will certainly lead to more privacy concerns. Tracking employees will be a rather trivial task with enough sensors throught the building. If they're only sensitive to withing 3-5 feet, you can see movements pretty well.

    And then managers can just plug it all into a roller coaster tycoon type of live simulation [slashdot.org], and fire people by tossing them into the water :)

    • And then managers can just plug it all into a roller coaster tycoon type of live simulation, and fire people by tossing them into the water :)
      I was thinking of Dungeon Keeper. All it needs is a big floating hand to pick up employees and drop them back were they belong or hit them to make them work harder.

  • Momentary RFID tags? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I'd like to see something like this where it was inactive by default, so that you HAD to turn it on for it to be visible to the sensors. All I'm asking for is a button, rather than constant on. I have no interest in having a little tag telling anything that asks who I am, and leaving footprints behind me.

    This kinda makes me feel ashamed to admit, but I've actually thought of whipping up a wallet or portfolio that would block/disrupt anything such as RF, active broadcast, etc. It's feeling like we're get

  • What happened (Score:3, Insightful)

    by aussie_a ( 778472 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @03:38AM (#9411779) Journal
    to the days when not everyone had a credit card? I abhore the concept of credit cards as they encourage people to buy things they don't have the money for. For this reason I don't like taking out loans, and if I could live life without doing so I would (unfortunately if you want to own your house it is impossible for the average person to achieve this without a loan). There are two ways to spend money: 1. Save it up and then spend it 2. Borrow then spend then repay it I prefer to do the first thing myself. After all, you're eventually going to have to pay for the thing (and possibly with interest) so why not do without for a time until you can afford it. But new technology is only favouring the second payment option with credit cards getting all this new fandangled tech, but bank cards aren't getting anything. Seems strange to me.

    • Re:What happened (Score:1, Informative)

      by furball ( 2853 )
      Credit cards are extremely useful in the hands of the financially disciplined. For example, all cards (not necessarily credit cards) I use for financial transactions have a reward system. I either get miles or some sort of gift certificate or cash back. The percentage I maintain for the reward system is 1%.

      There are some cards out there that are progressive in their reward systems; your reward percentage is more depending on how much you charge.

      Now, this is where the financial discipline comes in. If you
    • I like credit cards. In a dispute, they'll usually take my side; purchases are itemized, making it easy to track monthly spending habits; single payment to a single company; and they give me a tiny bonus for using it (cash back).

      I've never paid interest to a credit card company.

      Borrowing money for 30 days isn't a big deal so long as you have the money to pay off the loan.
    • What happened to the days when not everyone had a credit card?

      You'll probably find that most people that like this stuff are either under 30 (wow, cool!), working in the RFID industry (astroturfing/job preservation) or extreme techhies.

      Cash is just fine.

  • Prior art (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jayratch ( 568850 ) <<moc.hctaryaj> <ta> <todhsals>> on Sunday June 13, 2004 @03:41AM (#9411792) Homepage Journal
    I was under the impression this has been available in America for quite some time from Timex. [timex.com] and Exxon.

    Granted Speedpass isn't accepted everywhere by any means but gas and nowadays many McDonalds and a few supermarkets (in certain areas.)

    The standard unit is small enough to just ditch the keychain and tuck the bead in my wallet; in fact with a bit of crazy glue I'm sure I could turn anything into a credit card of sorts. Since Mobil gives them away free (no fees, just a draw to their places) the tech must be cheap as hell- little more than an inductor/antenna and a simple IC with a serial number... it's basically less circuitry than a typical disposable camera, and far less than a digital watch.

  • To being watched :)

  • Doesn't use RFID (Score:5, Informative)

    by line.at.infinity ( 707997 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @04:11AM (#9411875) Homepage Journal
    It uses an embedded IC chip FeliCa [sony.net] by Sony, according to the actual article.

  • And I wonder if RFID readers are DDoS'able... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by SharpFang ( 651121 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @04:50AM (#9411967) Homepage Journal
    Imagine the day when RFID tags are so common every coke bottle has one. Now cut them off and pack, say, 1000 or more int a match box. Carry them with you at all times. A reader sends a request and gets 1000 replies. 1000 not enough? Get 10.000. I wonder how many replies the reader would be able to handle simultaneously and how efficiently the chips could jam each other.
  • From the article Casio is very big on the fact that you now don't have to root around in your bag for a credit card or cellphone in order to pay for things or get in and out of the office.

    It would also appear that Casio are very big on conveniently ignoring the fact that this isn't anything new. The Hong Kong public transport system has been running on an RFID card called 'Octopus' [octopus.com.hk] for several years now. I've used it lots of times, and it works really really well. The Octopus system used a credit-card sized card [octopus.com.hk] with an embedded RFID chip by default, but there are also wristwatches [octopus.com.hk] and wear-around-your-neck-on-a-lanyard-watches [octopuscards.com] that perform the same function.

    You can pay for bus and train (MTR) [mtr.com.hk] trips using the Octopus card, make purchases at 7-Eleven [7-eleven.com.hk], and top up the card at railway stations and 7-Elevens, and make purchases from an increasing array of other stores, vending machines, parking, ferries, cabs, supermarkets, even school tuck shops!!! [octopuscards.com]. The system works really really well - despite the potential privacy issues, I'm a BIG fan of HK's Octopus.

    The system is, by default, largely anonymous. There's nothing to stop them putting a camera near a reader I guess, but I've never been asked to prove who I am when purchasing an Octopus card. The company acknowledges customer fears in respect of anonimity in various ways, they offer a 'personalised' octopus card with your photo on it if you want it, but there doesn't seem to be any pressure to adopt the personalised version.

    Clearly, it would be trivial to extend the Octopus system to access control. In fact, it wouldn't actually require any 'extension' of the system, just get your own RFID readers that speak the same frequencies and 'language' as Octopus uses (RFID is still very 'unstandardised', there's a lot of 'standards' to choose from), and make them respond appropriately to the unique IDs in the Octopus cards/watches you happen to own.

    I'm from Australia. A friend of mine is sending me my first Octopus watch next week. I already have a handfull of Octopus *cards* here to play with. Where can I get the RFID kit I wonder!

  • not a new concept (Score:2, Interesting)

    by shin0r ( 208259 )

    I worked for a firm that used Javacards to do a simliar thing. You set a debit limit via the intranet, and your food, gym, purchases and the car valet were all taken from your wages each time you swiped.

    It came off gross too, for great tax efficiency, plus no banking details were ever transmitted.

    Administrators could call the lift (elevator) when they swiped in to work in the morning :)

  • timex has released watches with speedpass (Score:3, Interesting)

    by emptybody ( 12341 ) on Sunday June 13, 2004 @06:57AM (#9412254) Homepage Journal
    If you take a look at Timex [timex.com] you will see the new line of speedpass enabled watches. This means that when I mug someone I can just get their watches - (which gives me the credit card and spedpass for US gas stations!!!)
    Rock On!!


  • Credit cards used to expire in 5 years. Now all of mine expire in 2 years. Whatever. 5 years, 2 years, that's still longer than my last Casio watch lasted. I don't think I'm particulary harsh on watches, especially because there are others I've had for more than 10 years. I just not sure I want my credit card number blinking 0000 0000 0000 0000 000 after 6 months.

  • Signature experts? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by slashname3 ( 739398 )
    I read several comments about how most cashiers don't even check the signatures.

    I always get a big laugh when one of them does check the signature. Why would management think that a cashier that can't make change if the cash register is down is suddenly a signature expert when someone uses a credit card?

    Several years ago one of the news magazine shows on TV did a story where they took some of those credit cards with the people's pictures on them and gave them to staffers and sent them into stores in
    • I don't think that this is a big conspiracy by the big corporations and there are many websites and books out there about the tricks of the trades of credit card companies, but most people don't read them just as they don't read MS EULAs.

      As for the debit card, Visa announced that they will have similar fraud protection against unauthorized charges against the debit card as they do for the credit cards.
  • anyone remember that? Whatever happened to the Java Ring and why haven't firms adopted it yet?

    It could open security doors, etc.

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