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Toys Technology

Las Vegas Monorail Finally Ready To Open 469

doormat writes "The Las Vegas monorail is finally set to open to the public on July 15th! The project has had some problems - it was originally scheduled to open in March. The first part of the monorail, which uses Bombardier M-VI train vehicles, 'a derivative of the famous Walt Disney World Mark VI trains', is 4 miles long and connects several casinos on the east side of the Las Vegas Strip (see map, QT video), as well as the Las Vegas Convention Center (Home to CES, NAB, Networld+Interop and what was Comdex). Future phases seek to expand the monorail to downtown to the North, the west side of the strip, and eventually the University and the airport (which the taxicab and limo groups fight tooth and nail). I swear it's the strip's only choice... throw up your hands and raise your voice! Monorail, Monorail, Monorail! Mono... D'oh!"
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Las Vegas Monorail Finally Ready To Open

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  • Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by SupaMegaBuffalo ( 717226 ) on Thursday July 01, 2004 @12:38AM (#9578524)
    Also, they should Open Source this POS

    Ummm... huh?

    I hope you mean only releasing the source code for those who would like to see it, and not that you want the code developed according to the usual open source models.
    Developing a system to control a vehicle carrying people is one thing that, at least i for one think, should be done by a set of well coordinated group of professionals.
  • Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by IANAAC ( 692242 ) on Thursday July 01, 2004 @12:53AM (#9578592)
    Now if this was Maglev or something else as cool...

    Do you even know how maglev works? Why on earth would you think that maglev would be

    a: efficient
    b: affordable
    or c: even doable in a 4 mile stretch?

    "Oooh!. Maglev! Let's do that!" Try to get beyond the buzzwords.

  • "finally" (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 01, 2004 @12:53AM (#9578593)
    How can you say "finally"? I was there like 2 years ago and they haven't even started.

    Its a miracle.
  • Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by faedle ( 114018 ) on Thursday July 01, 2004 @12:58AM (#9578614) Homepage Journal
    Wasn't supposed to be a solution for everybody. It was, however, supposed to be a solution for the Strip and Convention Center.

    Being as the vast majority of the Las Vegas economy seems to revolve around liberating cash from tourists, looks like a good thing to me.

    Besides, that $654 million dollars came entirely from the private sector, through direct financial contributions and bonds. The taxpayers of Clark County aren't paying for it, so why the hell are you bitching?
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 01, 2004 @01:29AM (#9578731)
    Actually, the cab drivers get quite nasty as well.

    The LV Monorail will be of limited value until it connects to the airport, bypassing the shuttle and cab nightmare (much like Atlanta, for example).
  • by Trunks ( 35615 ) on Thursday July 01, 2004 @01:31AM (#9578738)
    Have you ever tried walking from one end of the strip to the other in the middle of summer? It takes forever to get anywhere by car or taxi, and the walk is WAY too long (especially when it's hot as hell outside).

    Yeah, it doesn't get to the airport yet and has yet to cover the entire strip, but it's a start and will be a boon to many who regularly visit Vegas.
  • by dekeji ( 784080 ) on Thursday July 01, 2004 @02:31AM (#9578918)
    It's because we think that if the US subsidizes railroads, it's communism, but when the US subsidizes inefficient automobile and air travel, it's the free market.

    Why is that? Brilliant marketing and lobbying over decades by the auto and airline industries.
  • by Jodka ( 520060 ) on Thursday July 01, 2004 @02:31AM (#9578919)
    "I've always wondered why the US hasn't built up their mass transit abilities on the national level."

    That's the wrong question. You should be asking why we lost the one that we had. At the beginning of the century you could travel to almost anywhere you wanted to go in the US by rail. Little villages all across countryside had passenger rail service, most with multiple stops a day.
  • Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by ffsnjb ( 238634 ) on Thursday July 01, 2004 @02:35AM (#9578927) Homepage
    But as bondholders, as long as the project is successful (and the risk on this is low), NV will get the investment back, plus interest, saving taxpayers money in the long run (ignoring inflation and larger budgets).

    Governments SHOULD do this type of investing. If they did it correctly, we wouldn't have to pay taxes anymore. My dream is to build the federal treasury to a point where it operates off an annuity with no more income from the people. Granted, this will take a lot of upfront investment by the people, but it's a damn good thing.

    Now to get elected...
  • by mandalayx ( 674042 ) * on Thursday July 01, 2004 @02:38AM (#9578939) Journal
    The last line of your sentence, "So much for the free market and consumer choice" has no relevance to what you said at all.

    If you had planned your route in advance, carefully, instead of just winging it, you might have taken the right bus. For example, I can drive to "University Ave" and be miles away from the actual University.

    The cabs aren't there because, as you say, you were in the "middle of nowhere". If this were a cab driver forum, you'd find no sympathy. Plus, if you happened upon a pay phone or thought ahead to bring a cell phone while traveling, you could call a taxi dispatcher. Or lacking a phone number for taxi dispatch, called local directory service (hint: 411 isn't just asking for girls' numbers) and a taxi would come.

    In fact, it seems like your case is an excellent example of consumer choice--except you made some pretty naive choices. But since you were a tourist, I suppose it's excusable. Just plan ahead when you travel next time...you're a student, so you should be good at researching these kinds of things!
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 01, 2004 @02:40AM (#9578952)
    Um. Did you miss the part about population density? Europe, the continent, has more people than America, the Country. As a result, it has train stations which go to its major population centers within each country. From there... well gee, it's not to hard to link up the tracks, now is it?

    It's not like the Transcontinental Railroad in the US was done over 100 years ago or anything...
  • by DNS-and-BIND ( 461968 ) on Thursday July 01, 2004 @02:41AM (#9578963) Homepage
    Nobody walks in Vegas...not even from hotel to hotel. I never had a problem with taxis, other than the expense. The only place you can walk in Vegas is in Downtown. The tourists hate downtown because it's not new and exciting and expensive, it's rundown oldstyle Vegas with low table minimums and cheap rooms.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 01, 2004 @05:03AM (#9579588)
    Really? I was in vegas last month and the strip sidewalks were packed to the gills on Saturday night. Even during the day, there was lots of people on foot.
  • I'll bet London to a brick you're probably some breed of Neanderthal^Wconservative, so I'll point you in the direction of these papers [apta.com], many of them by a guy called Paul Weyrich who on other issues seems to be about as conservative as they come. Basically, people like yourself ignore the truly gargantuan subsidies that go to road funding.
  • by BigDork1001 ( 683341 ) on Thursday July 01, 2004 @06:54AM (#9579876) Homepage
    I've always wondered why the US hasn't built up their mass transit abilities on the national level.

    I'm an American currently stationed in Germany and I used to wonder the same thing myself before I got over here. Here's why it won't work the same.

    Over here in Europe the populations are clumped together a lot more than in the states. In Germany all the villages are pretty tightly packed. You don't have big yards, many people live in small houses that are right up against the next house or at most has a small alleyway seperating the houses. You have these little villages and then you'll have a kilometer or three of farm land or woods and then the next village. In the states everyone has a big back yard, a house, and we aren't living right on top of each other. Our suburbs and definatly our rural areas are more spread out.

    It's not feasible for every village in the US to have a train station or bus stop because with everyone so spread out it might be a couple mile walk to the nearest public transportation pick up. Where I grew up, Maine, NY [bigdorkonline.net], I was a few miles away from the center of the town and at least 6 or 7 miles away from the nearest bus stop. Where in Germany they are never more than a half mile or so from the nearest bus stop, or so it seems to me.

    And so that's my opinion of why the US cannot have a mass transit system like they have here in Europe.

  • by Secrity ( 742221 ) on Thursday July 01, 2004 @06:56AM (#9579881)
    Another problem is that to get to mass transit stations, most people have to travel some number of miles from their home. Most inter-city train stations are in the center of a city and parking is impossible or VERY expensive. In some cities this is not a problem for local trains because the systems' designers provided for ample suburban station parking and the local administrators see free parking as an incentive for people to use mass transit. In other cities, such as with the Washington, DC METRO system, the inadequately sized METRO parking lots fill up early in the day and the administrators charge for parking to subsidise rail operations. For more information about Washington DC METRO fair and parking increases and anticipated reduction in usage, see today's article at http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A193 08-2004Jun30.html
  • by Jonathan ( 5011 ) on Thursday July 01, 2004 @07:09AM (#9579923) Homepage
    We've been debating in MN for almost a decade on how to fund the building of a new baseball stadium for the Twins (remember contraction?), which is estimated to cost $438 million. The debate isn't even to fund the whole cost, only part of it.

    Instead we build a choo choo train! Current cost is $712 million,


    Well, a train is infinitely* more useful than a stadium, so why complain? Transportation is part of the government's business, after all, while entertainment isn't. The idea of "creating jobs" never held much water because the jobs at a stadium, such as hot-dog vendor, aren't exactly great.

    Instead we build a choo choo train! Current cost is $712 million, although it was only estimated to cost $444 million. For those unfamiliar with Minnesota, we've got some of the best highway infrastructure in the country and we're about as spread out as a metropolitan area can be, so trains aren't exactly an efficient solution to traffic congestion, especially when the train only travels 12 miles.

    Yeah, but do you really think anyone's going to be driving cars in 25 years? Individual transport is already a pretty irresponsible use of oil and it is only going to get more so as oil becomes scarcer and scarcer and more and more wars are needed to secure oil fields in the hands of friendly governments. Sounds like MN is actually thinking about the future for a change. Good for them.
  • Re:Yipee!!!!! (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Secrity ( 742221 ) on Thursday July 01, 2004 @07:49AM (#9580037)
    The Dallas Fort Worth airport had a similar tram system that connected the various terminals. It appeared to be fully automated, although it could have been remotely operated. I still remember that you had to use coins (50c?) to get into the system and that the dollar bill changers at the tram stations gave you 95 cents for a dollar bill.

    It seems odd that they would go to the expense of steam heating the "track", it seems that it would have been cheaper to just cover the whole thing. Covering the track would greatly reduce the need for steam heating and reduce or eliminate weather related deterioration of the track, mechanicals, and possibly the cars.
  • by bwy ( 726112 ) on Thursday July 01, 2004 @07:51AM (#9580041)
    Probably because most people only get 2 weeks vacation and you can fly between any 2 points in the US for $200 or under if you are a smart fare shopper. Back at the turn of the century wasting time on a train was the only way to get anywhere. I'll happily take my 6 hour plane ride from FL to CA, thanks.
  • by Bob9113 ( 14996 ) on Thursday July 01, 2004 @10:15AM (#9581006) Homepage
    airport (which the taxicab and limo groups fight tooth and nail)

    You know, this would be a lot more palatable if the taxi and limo services provided remotely acceptable service. When I'm landing in Vegas I don't give a crap about the $10 - $20 for the cab fare - what I hate is standing in a line of 3,000 people for 45 minutes waiting for a cab. In fact, if there were a line for the cheap monorail and little or no line for the cabs, I would still gladly take the cabs - I'm on my way to meet friends from other cities and I already know I'm going to lose money.

    Everyone arrives in Vegas on Friday at 7 PM. The Vegas taxi queue is an impressive one, with 20 or 30 stands, but it's still entirely inadequate. When moving large volumes of people from one fixed point to another fixed point (airport/strip), it's worthwhile looking into systems designed to transit people in mass numbers.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday July 01, 2004 @12:35PM (#9582823)
    Now, the truth is that it's simply more convenient to drive. Everyone goes ~130kph on the Interstate, and there is rarely any traffic north of Denver, so it only takes about 45 minutes to get to Denver. Compare that to a rail service which would have to be much faster to even compete (to compensate for the time spent getting to the station).

    The big problem with mass-transit in the U.S.:

    If you have to drive to get to where you can take mass-transit... why not just drive straight to your destination. (Most of the cost of owning a vehicle isn't the cost of gas.)

    MT really only works well if you can use it 100% of the time (or near enough).

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