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The Saga of Katie.com 1246

digitalcaffeine writes "The gist of the story is that Katie Tarbox became a victim of an online sexual predator when she was 13. She wrote a book about it in 2000 and Penguin Putnam made the title of the book 'Katie.Com', which unfortunately was a domain name owned by Katie Jones since 1996. Now Tarbox's lawyer is demanding that Jones turn over the domain name. Penguin refuses to apologize, saying that it would be a violation of their free speech to re-title the book and that Jones never trademarked katie.com, so they can do what they want with the words."
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The Saga of Katie.com

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  • Wow (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:20AM (#9887885)
    If it weren't so stupid, it would be funny. These people need a severe beating with a clue stick.
  • Makes no sense (Score:5, Insightful)

    by xbrownx ( 459399 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:21AM (#9887900)
    It's not also a violation of the domain owner's free speech rights to have to "re-title" her domain?

    There's something ironic about her lawyers fighting to have the Katie.com domain so that she can promote her book about Internet predators.
  • by erick99 ( 743982 ) <homerun@gmail.com> on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:24AM (#9887923)
    Why do I feel like something might be missing from this story? We have the makings of a tv movie here. A girl is victimized, horribly, as a result of her online activities. A book is made, a lucrative speaking engagement tour is arranged, and the victim makes a lot of money. That in itself is not necessarily bad (though it can be rather odd). However, with all of this money seemingly floating about, Katie T. and Penguin could have done the most gracious thing and made a generous offer to Katie J. for the domain name katie.com. Instead, they suggest that the domain name should be given to them as a "donation." I generally donate money to causes that are essentially "poor." I don't see any poor people on Kate T.'s side of the fence. So, this looks really, really greedy on the part of Katie T. and Penguin. As a matter of fact, it looks so overwhelmingly crass and greedy that it seems almost unreal. The Register article seemed informative but can this really be all there is to this? Is Penguin really so dumb as to steamroller over someone's domain name and not offer even a token sum to fix it? I wonder. If Katie T. and Penguin really are this mean-spirited and greedy then I do hope that someone steps forward and helps Katie J. fund a legal challenge.

    Cheers,

    Erick

  • by ericlj ( 81729 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:25AM (#9887926)
    I sent a letter to Penguin yesterday letting them know that I disapprove of their actions in this matter.

    It's conceivable, but unlikely, that if enough people write or call they will change their tactics.

    I assume that dealing with a large publisher is like dealing with government; I expect that they ignore email complaints but are more likely to respond to letters or phone calls.
  • Law $uit (Score:2, Insightful)

    by rakjr ( 18074 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:25AM (#9887927)
    While a person's name may not be unique, katie.com is a unique identification. Penguin has (by ignorance) directly acted against the interests of the person who had katie.com. Freedom of speach does not mean there are not consequences for what you say. A lack of copy right does not change the uniqueness of the identification. This has law $uit writen in the biggest letters I have ever seen.

  • by Neophytus ( 642863 ) * on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:26AM (#9887940)
    Oh, but they did. Had you RTFA then you would have realised then the original title for the book was to be girl.com, changed because the content of girl.com was at the time of the decision pornographic [archive.org].
  • by stromthurman ( 588355 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:27AM (#9887964)
    Actually, they almost certainly did know the domain was taken. Originally, the book was to be titled "girl.com", but according to the Katie Jones' open letter, girl.com at the time was a hardcore porn site. Seems to be a search page of some sort now. Anyway, I would not be surprised to find out that this was a deliberate move by the company. They knew katie.com was taken by someone else, but it was a private individual who had not registered any trademark on the domain name, and it's apparently a more desireable name than katiet.com (Katie Tarbox's actual website), so they probably figured they could muscle it out of her.
  • No due diligence (Score:5, Insightful)

    by charnov ( 183495 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:28AM (#9887965) Homepage Journal
    Katie Jones can assert her copyright of the works and the name at any time. Just because someone else doesn't do their due diligence and wraps their business up in a name does not mean the original owner has to cough it up. A little advice for Katie Tarbox's lawyer(s): even IF you get the name awarded, it will be tied up in court for a long time, probably longer than the value you have attached to it will last if not immediately established, and secondly, any decent judge will force you to pay through the nose to compensate the original owner. Good luck. You should make her a seven figure offer if it is so important to your business model.
  • by puzzled ( 12525 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:28AM (#9887967) Journal

    Katie might have a good story to tell but we need to make sure her book sinks like a stone. Is there a legal defense fund? How do we contribute?
  • by abkaiser ( 744418 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:29AM (#9887985) Homepage
    Katie Jones is very open and informative about this situation on the katie.com website. Interesting that Katie Tarbox herself doesn't have any response to this problem. (Unless her lawyer is keeping her quiet.)

    Seems to me like the katie.com publisher and probably Tarbox screwed up in not checking domain registration before printing. They've gotta suck up their own mistake, and not hassle Jones about donating the name back.

  • Retitle (Score:3, Insightful)

    by TwistedSquare ( 650445 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:31AM (#9888014) Homepage
    Penguin should retitle to Katie.org, Katie.net, Katie.golf.... whatever's free ;-)
  • Re:Stupid... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mopslik ( 688435 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:37AM (#9888081)

    no one's going to go to "katie.com"

    And yet there's a reason [straightdope.com] why every phone number in the movies has to be prefixed with 555.

    Or they could assume that the associated website would contain more information about the book, author, etc.

  • Re:Stupid... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by smooth wombat ( 796938 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:37AM (#9888086) Journal
    I mean, no one's going to go to "katie.com", they understand that it's simply a symbolic book title.

    You obviously haven't taken notice of the average intelligence quotient of people here in the US, have you?

  • by Entrope ( 68843 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:37AM (#9888087) Homepage
    You have a rather broad definition of "random, uninteresting American." If you had bothered to do even a modicum of research, you would find that Katie Jones (owner of katie.com) lives in London, and Pearson Group (which seems to own the Penguin Putnam group) is based in London.

    You clearly dislike it when Americans assume everything is about them, but is it fair to complain when you also assume everything is about Americans?
  • by eltoyoboyo ( 750015 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:42AM (#9888145) Journal
    Right on the money. How stupid are the Penguin sales and marketing folks to release a book with a domain name as the title, when they did not even own it. The one they own katieT.com should have been the title. It is almost like they had a disconnect between marketing and the art department. (Someone in the art department said "KatieT? It has to be Katie.")

    Even the creators of Friends were smart enough to register www.hahanotsomuch.com [hahanotsomuch.com] before it was used as a joke URL in the TV show two seasons ago.

    Penguin is trying to make Katie pay for their stupidity.

  • Re:Makes no sense (Score:0, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:43AM (#9888161)
    No it isn't ironic [wordsmyth.net]. However, it is callous [wordsmyth.net],
    hypocritical [wordsmyth.net], and cruel [wordsmyth.net]. Doing what's in their clients best interest, regardless of what other ramifications may result, is exactly what lawyers do. Katie T. is not doing something actually unexpected based on her backstory. She was abused sexually and then is fighting to get her message out, regardless of who she has to roll over to do it. It doesn't mean she cares about any other online rights. She may be an obnoxious [wordsmyth.net], bitch [wordsmyth.net], but she is still not acting in any manner that is unexpected.

    Mod parent +5 funny, not insightful...
  • Re:Stupid (Score:5, Insightful)

    by admiralh ( 21771 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:43AM (#9888163) Homepage
    Consider that a lot of p(a)edophiles were sending pictures and other stuff to the email address, so you know they were visiting katie.com, too.

    Would you post your daughter's baby pictures on a site you knew was a target for p(a)edophiles?
  • Tough Noogies (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Esion Modnar ( 632431 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:45AM (#9888179)
    I didn't RTFA, but it seems the publisher is making 2 claims: 1) They can use katie.com as a book title since it's not trademarked, and it's their 1st amendment right, and 2) For some vague "think of the children" reason, the current owner of katie.com should give it up.

    1) OK, then... phone numbers are not trademarked. If I use my next door neighbor's phone number as the title of a book I should be OK, right? Probably up until I get sued for the cost of him changing his phone number and all associated costs. Imagine all the crank calls he'd receive at 3 am. This is why books and media started using 555 numbers.

    2) I hate victim mentality that equates their suffering with entitlement. If you were a victim of something (esp. as a child), suddenly people are supposed to donate stuff to you, like domain names?!? ("Think of the Children!" the cynical demand heard everywhere...) Sure, it's a stretch to attribute the publishers' and lawyer's desires and expectations to their client, but she has the power to tell them "No! Not in my name, Asshole!"

    katie.com was there long before the book was even a gleam in a publisher's eye, so Penguin Putnam can go suck it. I hope they get their ass sued off.

  • Katie.com (Score:2, Insightful)

    by stinkyfingers ( 588428 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:45AM (#9888183)
    Generally one would name the book with a title that has something to do with the book itself. So, why Katie.com? Does the appending of .com make one think of sexual predators? I mean, at one time, dumbasses thought appending .com would make your business successful, but that's another story.

    I don't see why they couldn't just name the book and propped up a website, independently. Then the book could reference the website as a resource.

    I'm glad that Katie Jones took the high road. If I were her, there'd be some of the nastiest porno I could find sitting on katie.com right now.
  • Re:Makes no sense (Score:2, Insightful)

    by vkt-tje ( 259058 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:46AM (#9888187)
    I agree.

    The domain was there first, so it can stay.

    When the book was written, the domain "katie.com" was not registered. Therefore anybody was/is allowed to use the words "Katie.com" as the title of a book. (This is confirmed bt the fact that the owner of the domain never did anything against the publishers of the book.)

    Today there is no reasen why the owner of the domain should give it up. Just as well, there is no reason to change the title of the book.
    This is confirmed by the fact that the two have been co-existing for some time.

    The owner of the domain is not cybersquatting since the domain was there (long) before the book.

    The writer of the book did not violate a trademark.

    Both are protected by the same free speech rights. (I guess)
  • by zx-6e ( 604380 ) <zx-6e&dragonnetworks,com> on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:50AM (#9888237)
    Yet another example of what's wrong on the Internet. Someone should set up a fund for Katie Jones so that she can hire an attorney and have her attorney send the other Katie cease and desist letters...
  • Re:And?? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by abb3w ( 696381 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:51AM (#9888248) Journal
    Obviously I didn`t RTFA, but have they made a cash offer for the domain or are they just being threatening?

    (Sigh.) Obviously not, indeed. It's rather worse: the lawyer for KatieT contacted the owner of Katie.com, and suggested that Ms. Jones simply donate the name to them to solve her problems. Quoth Ms. Jones,

    "OK so not only do I get walked all over, my life invaded by this book, treated badly by the publisher/author who refuse to acknowledge that they've done the wrong thing, but then I get to hand it over to them on a silver plate and I not only have suffered all this aggravation but ultimately have lost the thing that I care about. Exactly HOW does this resolve anything other than give them the thing they want which they have done everything to hijack without any care and consideration for what is right and just?
    She also mentions that she has turned down substantial offers for the domain in the past, which makes the suggestion of the donation mindbogglingly obtuse. Methinks she needs to hire an aggressive pirhana of a lawyer... oh, and that you should RTFineA before burbling in the future. =|

  • Re:Makes no sense (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jafiwam ( 310805 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @09:59AM (#9888330) Homepage Journal
    When the book was written, the domain "katie.com" was not registered. Therefore anybody was/is allowed to use the words "Katie.com" as the title of a book. (This is confirmed bt the fact that the owner of the domain never did anything against the publishers of the book.)

    I think you mean was registered, no? It clearly was by comparison of by the dates, and it seems like the rest of your post goes by that assumption.
  • by XemonerdX ( 242776 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:05AM (#9888374) Homepage
    This is fairly indicative of the experience most women have with the Internet.
    And you don't think that had this been the case for Katie J and her domain she would've given it up already?

    The least the 'owner' could do would be to offer the domain for sale to the rightful owner.
    Apart from the already mentioned 'they *knew* the domain was taken', if you had RTFA you would've noticed how Penguin doesn't want to buy the domain-name, they want Katie J to donate it to them/Katie T.

    Nobody here is diminishing what happened to Katie T, but that doesn't mean what's been going on since the book was published is in any shape or form justified.
  • Re:Stupid... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by erroneus ( 253617 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:06AM (#9888381) Homepage
    Given the fact that they originally entitled the book "girl.com" and the changed it because girl.com is a porn site, it is reasnable to assume they also checked out katie.com.

    Basically, they made the decision NOT out of ignorance, but calculating the fact that they knew they could bully her out of what they perceive as a good choice of names for the book. Penguin is big and Katie is small. It would be unreasonable to assume Penguin has done any of this out of ignorance given their reason for changing the original name of the book.

    Penguin should be sued in every nation they exist for two or three times damages. I believe they are doing this believing they will simply be able to out-lawyer her. Penguin should be punished in a way that is severe and public enough that a message to all abusive and litigeous corporations out there that immoral behavior should not be allowed.

    "Right" is not defined as that which you can get away with. It is not right what they have done and continue doing. And it is not their right to do so... even if they manage to get away with it.
  • Re:Makes no sense (Score:3, Insightful)

    by paullush ( 767354 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:08AM (#9888405)
    I'll write a book about a little fucktard shit called sco. IT will be all about his efforts to fuck everyone off. I'll call is sco.com
  • re: katie.com (Score:3, Insightful)

    by atomic-penguin ( 100835 ) <wolfe21@marsFREEBSDhall.edu minus bsd> on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:11AM (#9888450) Homepage Journal
    www.katiethebook.com doesn't seem to resolve. Quick somebody grab it before her lawyer figures it out.
  • Re:Katie.com (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Entrope ( 68843 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:12AM (#9888462) Homepage
    That makes it look like the ever-popular "My book got published and I can afford a lawyer, give me the domain name I want" approach. I hope Katie Jones finds good counsel to put Ms. Tarbox in her place.
  • uh, no (Score:5, Insightful)

    by No-op ( 19111 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:13AM (#9888468)
    the domain was registered in 1996, well before the book was written and released. The book was originally to be titled "girl.com" but that turned out to be a porn site, so they changed it to "katie.com" instead.

    All in all, it was a stupid move on the publisher's part, and they are just pulling the normal corporate move of not acknowledging any responsibility and hoping their legal threats can win it for them.

    Personally, if I owned a domain like that, I'd use it as an opportunity to be a really big pain in the ass, but that's just me. I think the domain owner has all rights to be as much of a pest as she wants, and quite obviously she has all legal rights to the domain.

    if you really wanted to get pedantic, you could argue that since the sex.com case (somewhat) established domains as "property", that the book title infringes upon her property. there has to be an ambulance chaser out there somewhere willing to pick that standard up and run with it...
  • Re:Makes no sense (Score:5, Insightful)

    by thenerdgod ( 122843 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:14AM (#9888483) Homepage
    " It's not also a violation of the domain owner's free speech rights to have to "re-title" her domain?"


    Repeat after me: "CONGRESS shall make no law[...]" I can sue you to, as it were, "stfu" any time.

    Come ON people, TORT LAW != CONSTITUTIONAL LAW. I'm really tired of this. "But Teh SCO is taking Lunix's Free Speach Away!!!1" Christ. Get a clue.
  • Re:Katie.com (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:21AM (#9888594)
    haha. redirect to girl.com for a few weeks. that'll get 'em to change quick enough.
  • by swv3752 ( 187722 ) <[moc.liamtoh] [ta] [2573vws]> on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:25AM (#9888638) Homepage Journal
    Actually, would not even need that. If Katie of katie.com was smart, she should have filed a defamation suit immediately.

    What would the courts decision be if Penguin Publishing used her phone number for a title instead? Penguin would have been raked over the coals.

    The only problem is getting a Judge to be able to see the comparison in a favorable light.
  • Re:Makes no sense (Score:5, Insightful)

    by shellbeach ( 610559 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:32AM (#9888694)
    No it isn't ironic.

    There's nothing worse than a pedant who's wrong. Except perhaps a pedant who's anonymous too ...

    To explain in what should be needless detail: The book katie.com is about internet predators (the author was apparently a victim of one). You would therefore expect the author to act with great respect for other's online rights. However, instead her (and/or her publisher's) lawyers are being predators themselves by attempting to take over a domain name that existed long before the book was ever thought of. Thus there is an inconguity between the anticipated actions of the author and the actions in reality. This is a perfect example of irony.

    Sheesh ....
  • by kkovach ( 267551 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:32AM (#9888696)
    Anyone else go to the site and read the exerpts from the book? Sounds more like she's a victim of a snobby, shallow, superficial society.

    - Kevin
  • by Overzeetop ( 214511 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:32AM (#9888698) Journal
    Of course, IANAL, but through the actions of the publisher, katie.com has suffered real losses which could (should) have been avoided by a search to see if the term existed. They clearly did a search on other titles, and a reasonable person would expect the same be done for all titles.

    Unlike a name or a phrase, a domain is a fixed, unique address for locating information and any given domain can be checked with trivial effort. It would be like titling a book (202) 625-0040 and not dialing the number to see if it was in operation. (My apoligies to the D.C. resident/business whose number that is).

    The owner of Katie.com probably does have legal standing to sue in most 1st world courts, though the outcome would vary considerably, and be very costly for a private individual in any case.
  • by silentbozo ( 542534 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:34AM (#9888717) Journal
    What's really been disgusting is that Penguin has refused to acknowledge Katie Jones since 2000, when the book was first published, and the massive traffic began swamping Katie.com. They created a massive slashdot effect on purpose, against someone who had no connection with the book, and now have clearly decided to complete what they started, and take over the domain for themselves. Pretty ugly preceedent if they succeed - misappropriate someone's trademark, slashdot somebody for a few years, then file suit to take over the domain.

    Big corporation with millions of dollars, against a small businesswoman with limited resources. I say a legal defense fund is in order here, if it ever goes to trial (and of course, WHERE would it go to trial - the US, or the UK?)
  • by Al Dimond ( 792444 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:44AM (#9888813) Journal
    Katie J should be compensated for her domain name, which she owned before the book had any idea to use that title. Regardless of the experiences of Katie T, sympathy for her doesn't make Penguin's actions fair.

    (on the other hand, I don't believe parent to be a troll, as parent has been modded)

    I do think that this situation brings a question about the implications of registering a domain name on trademarks.

    I'd say that a similar idea centers around Microsoft's ".net" framework. They've taken an existing top-level domain thingy that they were in no way associated with and colored it with their own shade of light blue. Now Microsoft didn't sue for ownership of all ".net" domains, but it's impossible now to call up a domain like "www.php.net" or "sourceforge.net" without thinking of Microsoft.

    *begin old man voice* THERE OUGHTTA BE A LAW!!! *end old man voice*
  • Re:Makes no sense (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:45AM (#9888833)

    To explain in what should be needless detail: The book katie.com is about internet predators (the author was apparently a victim of one). You would therefore expect the author to act with great respect for other's online rights. However, instead her (and/or her publisher's) lawyers are being predators themselves by attempting to take over a domain name that existed long before the book was ever thought of. Thus there is an inconguity between the anticipated actions of the author and the actions in reality. This is a perfect example of irony.


    Ah, but this is exactly where the subtlety lies. The book author, having been abused, is not necessarily expected to be interested in online rights, but rather online protection. The two are not the same, nor is the term "online predator" ubiquitous. Katie T's online predator had physical attacks in mind. Katie J's online predator is in the farm league by comparison. So, one may not necessarily assume that Katie T is interested at all in online rights, just online protection. Without that expectation, there is no incongruity. Without the incongruity there is no (dramatic) irony.

    At best one could attribute linguistic irony to the double-use of the term online predator meaning two very different things...
  • probably not (Score:5, Insightful)

    by RMH101 ( 636144 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:46AM (#9888840)
    i'd be really tempted, but it might show an attempt to damage the reputation of penguin. you and i know this is wrong, bad and Just Plain Dumb, but you can never predict which way a court will see it...
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:46AM (#9888848)
    Just remember, it wasn't Penguin that did the legal harassing, they simply went ahead with a book with a mistake for a title. And refuse to apologize.

    Katie Tarbox has a lawyer who is harassing KJones. It should be to Tarbox and her lawyer that all complaints are directed. I'm not sure what Penguin's role might be at this point. I'm also unsure what influence we'll have on Tarbox the individual and her "katie.com" campaign to edumacate the masses about abuse involving the internet.

    Frankly I think Jones should put lots of advertising up on the front page or otherwise take advantage of the traffic. Probably in addition to her protests.

    If UK law really can help her get Tarbox off her back, she should employ it. I'd also really like to see an advocacy group help Jones and legally establish the domain as a piece of personal information like an address or phone number. You do essentially 'dial' in an 'address' to establish a connection, just like dialing a phone or going to an address.

    I'm surprised to see a lack of jokes about Tarbox's name..
  • by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:49AM (#9888877) Homepage
    And subpeona all their internal documents related to the domain name. While that was going on I'd also file a criminal complaint.

    It just seems insane for the publisher and author to take a hard line on a case like this. They can't win. No matter how it turns out, even if they won in court...highly doubtful...they get dirty. They're already dirty and now it's public dirty laundry waving in the breeze. The abused figures out how to turn a horrible incident into big $$$$ fear mongering on Jerry Springer and in turn becomes the abuser. What a f'ing PR disaster and now the media's got ahold of it.

    Even Blake Stowell from SCO couldn't spin that into anything positive. It's so heavy-handed and brazen, you'd think they were doing it deliberately.

    Penguin's upper management is either on some serious medication or they need to be. Take away the crack pipe and get them into detox.

  • Re:Katie.com (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Tharian ( 196561 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:49AM (#9888878)
    Hmm... Interesting little portrayal the author of the book offers there. Isn't it _her_ lawyer that's asking Katie Jones to offer the domain name for free to her?
  • by Hobbex ( 41473 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:49AM (#9888879)
    How about Katie13.com, which is still untaken, fits with the nomenclature of teen chatrooms, and gives a better idea of what the book is about...
  • Re:Katie.com (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Rootman ( 110962 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:51AM (#9888893)
    It's boilerplate. Anyone sending email to about this here get's the same response.

    My guess is she's probably sipping mint julips under the cottonwoods enjoying here $$$$ from the book and doesn't give a rats ass about being part of a legal predator's actions.

    I guess she doesn't care because it's "not her" getting screwed this time.
  • by double_h ( 21284 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:56AM (#9888957) Homepage
    This is a perfect example of the dangers resulting from corporations now being treated as entities which enjoy first amendment protections (I believe it was during Reagan's presidency that this change happened).

    Think about this for a second - a huge media corporation with publishing facilities in cities all around the world and teams of lawyers - arguing that their free speech is being violated by one person's individual website. Do you really think it's in the spirit of the first amendment that these two entities should be perfectly equal in the eyes of the law?
  • Oh, sweet irony (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Samurai Cat! ( 15315 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @10:57AM (#9888972) Homepage
    Tarbox is described in her bio as having dealt with an "internet predator".

    Now she and her lawyers are after this other Katie over a domain name.

    Who's the internet predator now?
  • by Christ-on-a-bike ( 447560 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:02AM (#9889036)
    But they definitely checked girl.com before going to press. I think they knew katie.com was also already registered, but went ahead anyway. Assholes.
  • Re:probably not (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bkr1_2k ( 237627 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:05AM (#9889065)
    As said somewhere else, though, these people have effectively made Katie.com's business and reputation impossible to maintain as it was intended. The web site can't actively host chats now or allow her to put up her own information. If I were Katie Jones, I'd look into the possibility of sueing Penguin and Katie T for harassment and any kind of business expenses she incurred for having to change her practices. Go to well respected papers (lots of them) with the story, not just online. Tell them what's happening and try to get some grassroots support. (That will help motivate some lawyers to jump on the side of legal defense without incurring huge costs directly to Katie Jones.)

    bkr
  • by rfc1394 ( 155777 ) <Paul@paul-robinson.us> on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:06AM (#9889076) Homepage Journal
    the free world and all; you know that. Dog eat dog is what it's all about, the right of the strongest and all that. If you find something and like it, you take it, and if nobody is able to resist you, you get to keep it and call it 'your right'
    What you just described is not Capitalism, but lawless anarchy or (if it uses the government to do so) is legalized theft and has no relation to Capitalism whatsoever.

    No, what this case involves is out-and-out extortion. It has nothing to do with Capitalism or they would have offered to buy the domain. Their lawyer is using threats in an attempt to steal it. Taking someone's property without paying for it is stealing.

    This is on the order of someone building a house at 63045 North 63045 Street, and then Channel 63,045 starts up and decides they want the property you live on for the address to their studios, so they tell you to sign over the deed to them for free.

    They had no right to this name, she had it first, and it is legitimately her name. This is a clear and obvious attempt at reverse cybersquatting, and nothing less. Don't smear Capitalism over something it is not.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:08AM (#9889097)
    There was a point where she was going to name her on-line (fear based I'm sure) education program katie.com. The publisher of her book wasn't involved with this. However the lawyer she is/was working with was. He has his own lame blog, like every other self-important ass in the universe. Now her program has been renamed something in the .org space.

    As much as the ill-concieved and inconsiderately titled book has been a significant burden on Mrs. Katie Jones (Who runs a web-based small business with a chatroom no less) it's about Katie Tarbox demanding someone else's property be donated to her new commercial venture.

    There's a reason she didn't call the book girl.com. And it's the obvious one. She didn't call it KatieT.com, which is the domain she now uses. But Katie.com. The property she neither owned nor could afford. So she greatly diminished the value and utility to the owner. Her lack of empathy for others, particularly after what she's been through is telling. I've no doubt that rather than lie, a person such as herself would just re-imagine the truth to be whatever is most convienent for the moment they are in.

    In the interest of fairness Ms. Tarbox should, in the following printings of her book, retitle them, and include an apology to Mrs. Katie Jones. She wants people to learn from and have empathy for her. It's only reasonable that she learn from her own mistakes, and be considerate of others.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:13AM (#9889163)
    Because having a publishing company that hires a lawyer to try to get a domain name is equivalent to holding down a small child and jamming an erect penis into its undeveloped vagina.

    Real fucking noble of you.
  • Do this to Penguin (Score:4, Insightful)

    by sonamchauhan ( 587356 ) <sonamc@PARISgmail.com minus city> on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:13AM (#9889165) Journal
    [ Inspired by this brilliant post [slashdot.org] ]

    "Penguin refuses to apologize, saying that it would be a violation of their free speech to re-title the book..."

    Treat others as you would want them to treat you.

    What if Katie Jones (katie.com [katie.com]) did this (with some help...)

    1. Write a book about Linux. Title it, um... 'penguin.com'

    2. Launch a campaign to persuade Penguin publishing to donate control of their penguin.com [penguin.com] domain. Of course... in aid of millions of citizens abused for several years by a convicted monopoly. Many of these citizens are finding comfort in the things described in 'penguin.com'

    3. Keep praising our right to free speech.

    4. Work hard promoting 'penguin.com': a CD jacket, translations to various languages, lecture tours, bookstore appearances...

    5. Oh, I almost forgot... by all means, register 'penguin.com' as a trademark.

    What if?
  • by ChrisKnight ( 16039 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:26AM (#9889291) Homepage
    Date: Thu, 05 Aug 2004 11:23:50 -0400
    From: Chris Knight <merlin@ghostwheel.com>
    To: online@penguinputnam.com
    Subject: In response to katie.com

    To whom it may concern,

    I make this promise today: As long as Penguin Group is engaged in their
    disgraceful attempt to strong-arm katie.com from its rightful owner I will
    refuse to purchase any book published by them, or any of their subsidiaries.
    Should Penguin Group succeed in stealing katie.com from Katie Jones I will
    continue to avoid your books, I will teach my children to do so as well, and I
    will spread the story to all my friends.

    We live in a capitalistic society, and profit seems to be the only thing
    people understand anymore. Therefore, I am casting my vote with the dollars
    you will not receive while engaged in such actions.

    -Chris
  • by slickwillie ( 34689 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:27AM (#9889301)
    Write a parody [ttu.edu] of this whole thing and use the title Penguin.com.
  • Re:Katie.com (Score:2, Insightful)

    by tkg ( 455770 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:28AM (#9889310)
    Katie T. claims to have no power over what Penguin Putnam does, but she certainly should. Penguin and her apparently predatory lawyer, by their actions, are damaging her reputation. That alone should give her some legal basis for getting Penguin to change the name of the book and stop harrassing Katie J. Katie T. needs a new lawyer.

    Of course, it could be that as long as the checks keep rolling in she just doesn't care. In which case she deserves whatever damage her reputation incurs.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:31AM (#9889351)
    I can understand some asshole saying that it's her fault for being raped as a 13 year old, but I can't believe any moderators thought it was "funny."

    And some Slashdotters don't understand why they can't get dates.
  • by ryanhos ( 125502 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:40AM (#9889440) Homepage Journal
    If they can't sell books, they can't pay lawyers. Lets let them know how we feel, Dave Barry Style!

    Direct mail and orders to:
    Penguin Group (USA) Inc.
    405 Murray Hill Parkway
    East Rutherford, NJ 07073

    (800) 788-6262 (Individual Consumer Sales)
    (800) 526-0275 (Reseller Sales)
    (800) 631-8571 (Reseller Customer Service)

    International numbers here: http://www.penguinputnam.com/static/packages/us/ab out/contact.htm
  • by LordPixie ( 780943 ) * on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:48AM (#9889555) Journal
    That was just over the line. Yes, the Penguin side of the issue is doing their best to bring their personal totalitarian dystopia to the Internet. Fine, call them on it. You can even disagree with Katie T.'s actions in this whole affair, no problem.

    But let's not stoop to insinuating that a thirteen year old being raped was somehow her fault. And what sort of retardity possessed that mods that made this funny ?!? Goddamnit guys, let's at least try to be somewhat respectful here.


    --LordPixie
  • Re:probably not (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jinxidoru ( 743428 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:49AM (#9889573) Homepage
    She lives in the UK though. Litigation across national borders is not an easy thing.
  • by pilgrim23 ( 716938 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:50AM (#9889588)
    I ran into Mark and his crew at Applefest 1982 in Anahiem. Fun show that...
    I may even still have a floppy or two around. Between the current Katie.com issue and this one, I do know one thing: In an average year I spend a good thousand dollars or better on books. Yes, I read quite a bit. Hence forward, I will be reviewing the publisher information on the spine and if it says Penguin, it goes right back on the shelf. I trust the publisher enjoys the company of their lawyers because they just lost the a customer forever.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05, 2004 @11:57AM (#9889684)
    What cries for sympathy? What harm? Let me summarize the issue for you.

    A FUCKING LAWYER EMAILED SOMEONE AND ASKED THEM FOR THEIR DOMAIN NAME.

    Blaming a thirteen year old for being lured by a pedophile on the Internet is supremely stupid. She didn't *make* her upbringing, surrounded by loveless parents. She didn't *make* a pedophile seduce her with promises of love and care when she couldn't understand his ulterior motives.

    I can't believe you support harassing this lady and making extremely sadistic jokes when you seem to care so much for the "pain" of someone who was asked for their domain name. If all the pain you understand is unwanted e-mail, you have a blissful, ignorant life.

    And now she's surrounded by comments on her book, e-mails, and websites calling her worse than her rapist for a trivial act that she probably had no control, or even knowledge, of.

    For shame, Slashdot. This may be your lowest moment.
  • Re:Katie.com (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05, 2004 @12:00PM (#9889726)
    Yes - but not pr0n. Put up some Google Adwords, or sponsored links to Amazon. That would help cover the costs of the commandeered bandwidth. She must get a nice bit of traffic looking for information about the other Katie, why not use it? The good things about Adwords is that Google would choose the links, so she would have a good defense if accused of using the domain to profit from "Penguin's" trademark.

    Oh, and while we're at it, don't forget to rate the reviews on Amazon if you found them helpful....
  • Re:uh, no (Score:5, Insightful)

    by carlos_benj ( 140796 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @12:02PM (#9889753) Journal
    The book was originally to be titled "girl.com" but that turned out to be a porn site, so they changed it to "katie.com" instead.

    Right. So the publisher knows that girl.com won't work for them before they publish the book. Whether they were checking that out ahead of time or just stumbled on the information they likely would have said, "Hey, let's check out katie.com so we don't run into the same problem." That means the publisher used katie.com fully aware that it was in use by someone prior to publication. Now that "someone" is being pressured to relinquish their long-held domain name. I'm not a litigious individual (never been involved in a suit on either side and I'm nearing 50) but I'd be filing a countersuit in a heartbeat.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Thursday August 05, 2004 @12:15PM (#9889897)
    At thirteen she's too old to be helping 40 year old guys look for lost puppies in dark alleys, or go with someone because they promise to give her candy.

    She was an active participant in what happened to her. She met with a man she didn't know and created and implimented a plan to subvert her parents will to do so. Did she have the greatest parents? Nope. They raised a moron, and gave it way too much responsibility. And though those failings certainly played a part in her spectacularly dangerous behavior, they don't belong to the woman who owns Katie.com.

    She didn't just ask for a domain name. That'd just be stupid. She willfully added hardship to the life of another for her own personal gain. That's not considerate behavior. I try to live my life by simple rules. Such as, do unto individuals as they do unto others. If you find my application of her own morality on her less than generous or even cruel, well once again she brings it on herself.

    As for control. All she had to do to save herself all the grief is nothing. Just not show up. She still wouldn't have had the idilic childhood she laments not having. She had all the power she needed. Instead she looked foreward to a fantasy she knew was both wrong, and couldn't exist. Now she looks back whistfully at a fantasy childhood that could never have existed. Because she's unhappy the feelings and property of others don't matter. She was molested, and Judith Light will play her mother in the movie adaptation!

    Seriously, fuck her. She a waste of space. Wah wah her parents didn't love her. Well, since this is who she is, can't say I blame them.
  • Re:Makes no sense (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Sylver Dragon ( 445237 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @12:20PM (#9889947) Journal
    There is a problem with this though. The law you quoted is US law. Katie Jones lives in the UK. Putnam seems to be a large international company, not sure where it is based. I would expect that this suit will have to be fought out in the UK, as that is where the property in question is currently held, and there is not agreement between Katie Jones and Katie Tarbox about venue in the case of disputes.
    At best, a US judge will probably look at this case, and rule that he has no jurisdiction. At worst, we'll get another case of the US government over-reaching, and attempting to apply its laws to other countries.
    If anything, Katie Jones, needs to send some sort of Cease and Desist letter to Putnam, and then file if they don't change the book's name. This is, of course, assuming that the UK allows someone to bring a civil suit over harrasment (inducing all of the emails) and destruction of property (unusability of the site, bandwidth costs).

  • by j_snare ( 220372 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @12:37PM (#9890172)
    Actually, it's worse than that. She lives in the UK, but she's getting harassed by a multinational company and a person in the US. Penguin could take their case to the English courts easily enough, but it's better for them and KatieT to file over here, since it'll cost Katie even more that way.
  • by mratitude ( 782540 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @12:43PM (#9890249) Journal
    ... calculated about this, so burn karma, burn!After reading the provided excerpt from the book titled "Katie.com", it reveals something about this young woman that doesn't portray her in a good light. As a matter of fact, she seems to be hilighting the fact that the chat with a pedophile began when she was 13 but seems to de-emphasize the fact that the actual 'molestation' occurred when she was 17. Still a minor but she was not a kid and it wasn't molestation and perhaps not even rape - Had the jerk met her somewhat superficial standards at the time (had been in his 20's, had been generally kind and paced things a bit slower) she likely wouldn't have accused him of molestation.

    Combine that with her attitude toward this lawyer led barnstoming over the domain that the publisher used for a book title (which has nothing to do with the events portrayed in the book) and the general lack of care for what is being done on her behalf... I don't envision this young lady a victim of anything at all except her own actions and superficial views of the world.
  • WTF? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jjoyce ( 4103 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @12:57PM (#9890403)
    This is nothing more than, "You have something we want, therefore you need to give it to us."

    The trademark/domain issues only create confusion. It seems Katie T's lawyers are hoping to capitalize on that confusion.
  • by pyrrhonist ( 701154 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @01:04PM (#9890459)
    For the record I have never harassed Katie Jones for her site.

    Reply and ask her why her lawyer is harassing Katie Jones then.

  • by choovanski ( 780936 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @01:05PM (#9890464)
    > But Penguin's use of katie.com is directly
    > causing her harm, because she effectively can't
    > use it for its intended purpose because of all
    > the traffic it is getting.

    Huh?

    Hello. Katie.com has been my personal site since 1996. It has NOTHING to do with the book titled katie.com.[P]
    If you came here because of the book please click [A HREF="http://www.katiet.com"]here, http://www.katiet.com[/A] to visit Katie Tarball's site.
    [P]
    Otherwise click [A HREF="http://www.katie.com/index2.html"]here[/A] to enter my site.[P]
    Thank you!

    Oh yeah, IANAWD so please pardon the heinous html. :)
  • Re:Makes no sense (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Shadow Wrought ( 586631 ) <shadow.wroughtNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Thursday August 05, 2004 @01:08PM (#9890501) Homepage Journal
    So let's see, rape vs. making someone move from katie.com to katiejones.com.

    I think you are oversimplifying things here. This is not about Katie T's rape. This is about Katie T making gobs of money (from the book, lectures, school program, even a TV show!) using the katie.com moniker. Which she does not own! It would be far more appropriate for them to have called it KatieT.com from the get go.

    I am sorry that Katie T had to go through what she did at the ahnds of a 40 year old pedophile. But just because she suffered in her past does not give her carte blanche to use another person's domain to help her make money. Katie Jones, the true owner of katie.com, is being harassed and pushed around simply because she doesn't want to give away what she owns and values. In that respect then there is a certain amount of irony involved.

  • Re:Katie.com (Score:3, Insightful)

    by tanguyr ( 468371 ) <tanguyr+slashdot@gmail.com> on Thursday August 05, 2004 @01:29PM (#9890806) Homepage
    If you can afford a lawyer, you can afford to at least offer to buy the domain name. What is up with this "i'll see you in court!" knee jerk reflex?
  • Re:Katie.com (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Slider451 ( 514881 ) <slider451 AT hotmail DOT com> on Thursday August 05, 2004 @01:30PM (#9890816)
    Except for ethics and freedom, you're right.
  • Re:Wow (Score:3, Insightful)

    by quisph ( 746257 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @02:25PM (#9891548)
    1) Go to Amazon.com and vote YES on all the negatives reviews where it askes "Did you find this review helpful".

    2) Write your own negative review.

    I.e., be a shill. Subvert amazon.com's honest efforts to provide meaningful user ratings and reviews. Punish the users who wrote the positive reviews, even though they were acting in good faith and have no connection with the author, the publisher, or their lawyers.

    I thought we were against bullies on the internet.

  • whore (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Doc Ruby ( 173196 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @02:40PM (#9891792) Homepage Journal
    It's sad that Tarbox's early exploitation defined her career so early. She might be exploiting herself with books and websites about her violation, but it's more likely that she's now become a completely willing victim of lawyers and publishers who pimp her out as a tiny cottage industry. At least the centrality of Penguin Putnam, and their arborcide products, in this sleazy story shows that the Internet is at worst an innocent bystander in this travesty.
  • Libel (Score:4, Insightful)

    by joggle ( 594025 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @03:05PM (#9892103) Homepage Journal
    Umm, money (or the lack thereof in this case)? How would Katie Jones defend herself when the other Katie desides to sue her for libel? Even if KJ had tons of money she would still lose since it would, in fact, be libel. And it is MUCH easier to win a case of libel in the UK than in the US AFAIK.
  • Re:Katie.com (Score:3, Insightful)

    by milkman_matt ( 593465 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @03:13PM (#9892228)
    Hell, I totally agree with you.

    If these people are going to be asses and demand you turn over your domain beause they aren't creative enough to come up with a new name, you're going to get free advertising. With this comes value, and if you look, you'll find that SOMEONE will be interested in that traffic. I do like your idea, though ;)

    -matt
  • Re:Hoax? Parody? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mr_mischief ( 456295 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @03:17PM (#9892288) Journal
    The point of keeping the the moral high ground is that it's the moral high ground.

    The point of morals is that they are morals.

    Switching morals on and off based on the actions of others makes them cease to be morals.
  • by btempleton ( 149110 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @03:48PM (#9892709) Homepage
    Book titles can't be coyprighted and are pretty hard to trademark.

    It's pretty hard to get a trademark on a common name like "Katie" and the USPTO made a specific ruling several years ago that adding ".com" to a generic term did not turn it into a unique coined term that could be made into a broad trademark.

    Trademarks have to be specific. You can trademark your name, but only in a specific field of business that you are acting in. Two people can own the same trademark in two different fields. Delta Airlines and Delta Hotels, for
    example. Penguin books and Penguin computing.

    Now normally, KJ has one big leg up. The normal test for trademark infringement is "is the public being confused?" And they clearly are. But there was that very specific ruling from the US trademark office about .com names that goes against her. However, I don't know how it applies in the USA.

    Book titles are a special case. Two people can use the very same book title! My father wrote a novel "Act of God" and there are several novels by that name, all legit.

    Unfortunately, the push on Penguin to "do the right thing" doesn't seem to be working.
  • by nlindstrom ( 244357 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @04:24PM (#9893148)
    1. Register www.KatieTarboxIsAStupidBitch.com [katietarbo...dbitch.com]
    2. Redirect the site to www.TubGirl.com [tubgirl.com]
    3. PROFIT!
  • by iamcf13 ( 736250 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @05:02PM (#9893568) Homepage Journal
    1) It is the name of the book and can be used to promote the book.

    2) It is the URL easiest to type in a webbrowser.

    Nothing else matters to Penguin

    My advice to the original owner of katie.com is to have registrar lock enabled and make sure their domain fees are paid up for the next few years or so so 'dirty tricks' aren't used to steal the domain away from her like what happened in the (in)famous sex.com case....

  • Re:Makes no sense (Score:4, Insightful)

    by kst ( 168867 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @07:24PM (#9894843)
    I don't feel sorry for this little whore! Not one bit! And neither should you.

    That is entirely uncalled for.

    Katie T, as far as we know, is not responsible for the "katie.com" brouhaha. As for what happened to her when she was 13 (or whatever age she was), I don't think either of knows enough about it to judge her. There might be some debate about whether she's a victim, but calling her a "little whore" is beyond the pale.

    This kind of thing happens far too often on Slashdot. Someone is mentioned indirectly in a story, and people with no lives of their own feel free to start flinging misogynist abuse.
  • Re:Wow (Score:5, Insightful)

    by timeOday ( 582209 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @07:30PM (#9894916)
    What I bet is that Penguin will contact Amazon and "get this all sorted out" in short order.
  • by Macgrrl ( 762836 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @08:13PM (#9895271)

    KatieT's lawyer, Parry Aftab, is certainly not lacking in ego - there is a section [aftab.com] on her website where she revels in the title "Angel of the Internet":

    For the amount of time and personal sacrifice Parry has devoted to making sure that everyone, especially children, can learn to use the Internet safely, privately and responsibly, Parry is often called the "Angel of the Internet." (emphasis added)

    She is obviously aware of the problems they are causing, as referenced in her blog entry titled Katie Tarbox and Katie.com (the book, not the site) - Monday, July 26, 2004 [blogspot.com].

    One can only gues that KatieT is making as much of this opportunity as she can - after all, she is unlikely to publish any other books of significance making basic editing mistakes on the front page of her website [katiet.com]:

    As an advocate and expert in this field, I realize that the dangers that lye on the Internet will continue to exist unless we as a collective make the effort to prevent those dangers. (emphasis added)

    Shame on KatieT for harrassing the rightful domain owner - I hope she realises that it will undermine what she hopes to achieve in the long term.

  • Re:uh, no (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Big Sean O ( 317186 ) on Thursday August 05, 2004 @08:30PM (#9895394)
    Especially since KatieT.com is the personal site of Kate Tarbox...
  • by unitron ( 5733 ) on Friday August 06, 2004 @12:41AM (#9896811) Homepage Journal
    "I'm Suing Penguin Books...For infringing on my rights as author and publisher of the book "165.193.128.72"."

    I think Katie Jones should author and publish a book about Linux and the Internet and call it Penguin.com and then let Penguin spout off about freedom of speech.

  • by dbIII ( 701233 ) on Friday August 06, 2004 @01:00AM (#9896884)
    If Katie of katie.com was smart, she should have filed a defamation suit immediately.
    ... and had some money she never wanted to see again, and a lot of spare time, and was prepared to be reviled in the press for standing up for the rights of pedaphiles despite that not having anything to do with the issue.

    Most people would avoid courtrooms unless they think something is very important, and can't see other ways around it.

  • by hadaso ( 798794 ) <accountNO@SPAMslashdot.hadaso.net> on Friday August 06, 2004 @02:53AM (#9897220)
    The publisher response about Katie Jones not registering katie.com as a trademark only claims that this means she cannot force them to stop using the name. Not that they can stop her using that name.

    But even if they are legally allowed to use the name as the title of a book, it doesn't mean that they are not liable for the damages caused by this, even if it wasn't used maliciously. IMO heir neglegance in failing to predict and avoid the consequenes of mass producing books with references to an existing personal domain is enough to make them liable. It's not that they discovered that the name they used happened to also be someone's domain name. It was published AS A DOMAIN NAME, thus they had the responsibility to check in advance if they can use it and to consider the impact of using the name.

So you think that money is the root of all evil. Have you ever asked what is the root of money? -- Ayn Rand

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