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Windows Operating Systems Software Media

Windows Media Player 10 Reviewed 484

An anonymous reader writes "Paul Thorrott reviews Windows Media Player 10 and notes that unlike Apple's iTunes Music Store, which offers music that is only compatible with Apple's iPod portable player, WMP 10 will work with songs from virtually any other online music store. There are more screenshots here with a download link." Reader Thomas Hawk writes "I wrote my Microsoft Windows Media Player 10 Review today the first day the software was released and one of the first reviews on the product. I basically give it good marks but there are definiately some things that they can still improve upon." An anonymous reader writes "Since I'm somewhat wary of Microsoft's new software (particularly DRM-laden Media Player types,) I was paying attention to the EULA and privacy agreements provided when downloading the software. Ironically enough, the privacy page linked from the installer (at time of writing) merely said "TODO: Privacy policy goes here". Most certainly an honest mistake, but in the meantime it appears there is in fact no policy on privacy (or it has not yet been taken into consideration) in WMP10."
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Windows Media Player 10 Reviewed

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  • No Privacy Policy? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Quietude ( 634889 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @12:48PM (#10150170)
    Anyone else a little nervous that they haven't gotten around to writing a privacy policy? That seems a bit disturbing, to say the least.
  • iTMS vs. WiMP10? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by tulmad ( 25666 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @12:49PM (#10150186)
    Paul Thorrott reviews Windows Media Player 10 and notes that unlike Apple's iTunes Music Store, which offers music that is only compatible with Apple's iPod portable player, WMP 10 will work with songs from virtually any other online music store.

    Wtf does that mean? What does iTunes Music Store have to do with WiMP 10? iTunes (not the music store) can play mp3s, which means it's compatible with almost every other online music store too. It's just MS's WMA format that iTunes can't play, but neither can any other player anyways.
  • by RatBastard ( 949 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @12:50PM (#10150191) Homepage
    But it doesn't run on my Mac.
  • Ya know... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by eln ( 21727 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @12:50PM (#10150200)
    If they just stuck to a media player that limits itself to, say, playing media, they wouldn't need a privacy policy.
  • WMP 10... yay... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Masami Eiri ( 617825 ) <brain.wavNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Friday September 03, 2004 @12:50PM (#10150201) Journal
    I dunno about everyone else, but WMP has been just getting more bloated since 7. For ages, I had downgraded WMP to 6.x, until a friend pointed out Media Player Classic.

    Its not like I need the playlist stuff, Winamp (2.9) handles music, I only use WMP for video, which rarely needs a playlist, and even then, if I need a playlist for video, I do it with Winamp.

  • by neiffer ( 698776 ) * on Friday September 03, 2004 @12:50PM (#10150202) Homepage
    I am a big Windows guy, so it hurts me to say I like iTunes better but I do. It doesn't really bother me that I cannot buy from other companies since I use mostly MP3's with iTunes anyways. If you are are really looking for a media player that can play different formats (including movies), I recomment WinAmp 5. It's better than Winamp 3, it plays multiple media, has a large plug in set to extend functionality and had a low overhead. Plus, I love the media library feature in WinAmp, which WMP never seems to get right, confirmed with my installation of the 10 beta.
  • No privacy? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by iamdrscience ( 541136 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @12:51PM (#10150209) Homepage
    Well, no privacy policy would seem to mean no privacy, am I right?
  • "Honest Mistake" (Score:3, Insightful)

    by GillBates0 ( 664202 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @12:52PM (#10150230) Homepage Journal
    TODO: Privacy policy goes here". Most certainly an honest mistake

    Coming from a MegaCorp, I would expect something more like...Whoops, sorry, we accidentally sold your information to interested third parties including the DHS. We sincerely apologize for the honest mistake.

    But you're right, this does look like an honest mistake. But it's more like a sign of the future to come.

  • by Spad ( 470073 ) <`slashdot' `at' `spad.co.uk'> on Friday September 03, 2004 @12:53PM (#10150233) Homepage
    It's bollocks, that's what it is.

    They're comparing a Media Player to an Online Music Store

    My Stereo is so much better than that music store over there because it plays tapes, cds, minidiscs and vinyl - but the store only sells vinyl.
  • by thatguywhoiam ( 524290 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @12:55PM (#10150258)
    That screenshot linked from the second review... oy, vey.

    Somebody was commenting on the interface in an earlier thread but I had no idea... MSN's opposing gradients from hell clash with the XP Luna scheme really, really badly.

    Go look. [thomashawk.com] Can you read those tabs at the top-right? Music... ra... radio... movies & tv?

    Also - find the transport controls! They are hiding in the worst place possible, at the lower-left corner, which is exactly the last place your eye goes to when scanning the sea of text in the main window. This decision probably hinges on simply not making the thing look too much like iTunes.

    God, I get angry just looking at this thing.

    What is wrong with them? More money than God and they still can't manage to find a visual design that isn't completely retarded. Reversed text mixed with plain. Tabs - which don't look like tabs - separated by an arbitrary hierarchy. All controls with meaningful functions crammed into a too-small area at the bottom of the window, which sits mashed nicely against your taskbar, which is usually crammed with widgetry as well.

    To say nothing of how the MSN Music Store works, I can say that iTunes (and WinAMP, and Audion) knock the shit out of this.

  • by edsarkiss ( 755418 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @12:56PM (#10150266)
    it's not an honest mistake -- it's just a sign that the legal department hasn't released the final approved version yet.

    i'm sure someone decided that it was more important to release the product than wait for the PP to be finished.

    welcome to the prroduct release process in a large company.
  • Works...? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by StevenHenderson ( 806391 ) <stevehenderson.gmail@com> on Friday September 03, 2004 @12:57PM (#10150279)
    WMP 10 will work with songs from virtually any other online music store

    I guess "work" has become a very subjective word. :)
  • by peragrin ( 659227 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @12:59PM (#10150301)
    iTunes can convert WMA music to AAC, the windows version of itunes includes this.

    not sure about DRM'd Songs though.
  • by fireduck ( 197000 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:02PM (#10150337)
    one could look at it that way, or one could look at is as a mistake (engineers releasing product before lawyers had added their input?).

    Recall that WMP 9 was probably MS's first instance where they started to make people's privacy important. During install, there is an explicit privacy step you have to go through, checking a number of boxes on whether to allow net connections to search for things, whether to use your media player's unique id, etc. And it wasn't set up like Real and all their hidden check boxes visible if you only scroll down. Very much visible and meant to be taken seriously. There's a very clear and visible "Privacy" tab in the options menu.
  • Have you read the review? The guy gushes all over the place about how wonderful Microsoft is, and how WiMP is "the best"! Where the hell did his head go? Some samples:

    I am a Windows Media Player junkie. Having used the program for a number of years I think it is quite simply a brilliant piece of software - a masterpiece developed by extremely talented engineers in so many ways. Even more spectacular is that is free. Microsoft gives it away. If Microsoft didn't give this software away I'd gladly pay money for it. I love it.

    Ugh. I feel so... dirty... after reading that.

    Mp3 ripping. It's admirable that Microsoft finally listened to their users on this one and gave in. In all of the previous versions of Window's Media Player Microsoft forced you to rip your tunes to WMA. [...] Windows Media Player 10 fully supports mp3 ripping and high quality encoding at that. Kudos to Microsoft.

    Something that iTunes has had... lemme see... forever?

    The new "Composer" menu on the left hand window is a handy feature. Check it out. It's new and I love it. Want to create a Bob Dylan covers playlist? Select Dylan under the composer menu then sort the window by artist and select all but Bob Dylan as a performer and save it as a Bob Dylan covers playlist. Very simple, very easy.

    More gushing + feature stolen from iTunes.

    Ratings. WMP 10's rating system is first rate. [...] Microsoft developed a fine ratings system. How does this work? Rate each song you hear from one to five stars with a stroke of a right mouse click. Later when you are relaxing you can listen to only your favorite tracks.

    That sounds great! Microsoft really outdid themselves by copying from iTunes^W^W^W innovating this really amazing feature! (end sarcasm)

    Crossfading. In the past one of the things I hated most was that long silence between songs. One song would end and then prior to the next one there would be more silence.

    WinAMP, iTunes, etc? Nope, it's a Microsoft invention don't you know.

    Improved interface. Microsoft provided a much improved cosmetic overhaul to WMP 10. One of the things I like a lot in the libraries is that they color code (light blue and a lighter blue) between lines now making it easier to follow the data on a track across the screen.

    Look at the screenshot on the page. It looks like crap. Usable, sure, but definitely not attractive.

    Anyway, this "review" just hurts, so I'll stop there. I just wish we could rate this review '-1 Microsoft Leg Humper'.
  • Re:Testimonial (Score:2, Insightful)

    by bigman2003 ( 671309 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:03PM (#10150347) Homepage
    Right- and HDTV will never take off, because you can't go jogging in the park with a 42" plasma screen on your back.

    What does WMP have to do with an iPod Mini? Did you realize that there are other portable music players out there- some of which play WMA files? In fact, me and my friends were just talking about one of them yesterday [slashdot.org].

    Personally, I use a Pocket PC for my portable music player. A could of 1 gig SD cards, and I can carry plenty of music- while 'jogging through the park'. But then when I am done, I can go to the local coffeehouse and get my e-mail, surf the web, etc. etc.

    Not saying the Pocket PC is a better portable player...but I'm just wondering where the heck you come up with your comparison.
  • Re:Testimonial (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:05PM (#10150367)
    What is the logic in modding this funny? It's no more than a cheap shot at microsoft (Which isn't a bad thing, usually,) and one that doesn't even apply here.

    Yeah, maybe if MS had been toting WMP as in iPod killer or something, than sure. This joke would work. But they didn't. We need to keep our Microsoft taunting at a certain level, guys. I expect more from the things mods rate a 5.
  • by Kenja ( 541830 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:06PM (#10150385)
    "But it doesn't run on my Mac."

    About 90% of the stuff I run on a computer doesn't run on my Mac. Thats why it sits in the corner next to my Sun and SGI systems feeling lonely.

  • by rbanzai ( 596355 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:10PM (#10150431)
    It's kind of stupid the way they compare WMP 10 to the Itunes music store. One is a media player, one is,well... a store!
    Is it somehow significant that WMP 10 can play various flavors of music file and the itunes music store sells songs for ipods/itunes?
    Are those two things not mutually exclusive?
  • by revscat ( 35618 ) * on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:14PM (#10150468) Journal

    Smart playlists, shared music, the native ability to burn/rip CDs, and iTMS come immediately to mind. Not to mention the fact that Winamp has security holes and is in general far more clunky. WA4 pissed me off; WA5 is better, but iTunes is still far and away the sleeker player. I started using WA with version 2, used 5 for a while, then tried iTunes and dumped WA about 2 weeks later.

    I could care less about skinning or plug-ins. IMO when developers brag that their apps are skinnable or support plug-ins it tells me that they probably haven't paid as much attention to the core functionality, and have opened the app up to security vulnerabilities and instability. As a general rule I avoid skinnable apps.

    Plus a whole bunch of people in my office (including) use iTunes and share their music; I can listen to their playlist with a single click. I've been able to check out music I hadn't been exposed to before when it is convenient for me.

  • Re:Um. (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Doctor_Jest ( 688315 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:20PM (#10150550)
    Your point is? I would read from that information that Microsoft has its evil fingers into more than people realize, not that WMA is "more standard" than AC3.

    I have 3 DVD players that are capable of playing MP3s. MUCH better IMNSHO, because MP3 is not burdened by DRM.

    I bet you a shiny gmail account request that your set top DVD player will have trouble with some of the DRM-laden WMA crapola from Microsoft. Heck, you can't even use MP3 CDs in their shiny green XBox. Talk about vendor lock-in....

    If not now, in the near future, we will be hearing the complaints of "why can't I play my WMA files ANYWHERE????" Microsoft will tell you when and where you can play your WMA files. ....the Kool-Aid line is to the left...

  • by Doctor_Jest ( 688315 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:23PM (#10150589)
    ...maybe because winamp is no longer free....

    Or perhaps its like my experience with winamp 2.xx in XP, which causes a full-stop kernel panic on XP when I eject a CD.

    Or perhaps no one really wants to whip the Llama's ass....

  • by uodeltasig ( 759920 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:31PM (#10150658) Homepage
    Well I'm now better off buying CD's then using DRM telling me how many computers I can put it on. Here are a few things I found interesting from their privacy policy [microsoft.com]...

    "Microsoft also provides a service that lets you move your own secure content..." Gee thanks M$ for letting me put the content I purchased where I want to

    "Unless the migration limit has been reached, a new license will be returned that enables use of the content on your new computer. Microsoft keeps track of the number of migration licenses granted for content that was first licensed on your original computer and allows a limited number of license migrations."
    Great so if I move it to my work, laptop and home computer I might not be able to play what I purchased? Furthermore, how does this work since my laptop / home run Gentoo Linux?

    I'll be sticking with ANYTHING [winamp.com] BUT [apple.com] THIS [real.com].
    Thanks for deciding to licence my music for me, M$ how nice of you. Not even Real does that, come on!
  • by kayak334 ( 798077 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:31PM (#10150665)
    I know a few people who have winamp installed, but genuinely prefer playing their music in iTunes!

    Some of us like to be able to search our music easily.
  • Re:ogg (Score:5, Insightful)

    by vivek7006 ( 585218 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:32PM (#10150692) Homepage
    Does it support Ogg files in your playlist yet?
    It does not and it never will. Infact, I wont be surprised if they totally drop the support for MP3. MP3 encoding has been intentionally crippled to force the users to encode in WMA
  • Re:Testimonial (Score:5, Insightful)

    by pknoll ( 215959 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:35PM (#10150727)
    I'm just wondering where the heck you come up with your comparison.

    He got it out of a box called "humor".

  • by chmilar ( 211243 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:35PM (#10150740)
    The iPod has over 50% marketshare.

    iTMS sells over 70% of online music.

    Who cares if WMP10 works with the wanna-be players and music stores? It doesn't work with ones most people are actually using.
  • by fitten ( 521191 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:38PM (#10150800)
    Nothing you say here was invented by iTunes. Plenty of programs had these features long before iTunes was even a glint in Apple's eye.

    This isn't Insightful at all. It's blind-eye by a clueless person.
  • by blakespot ( 213991 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:40PM (#10150845) Homepage
    The list of Paul Thurott's questionable reporting [macrumors.com] is long. The guy is a massive Microsoft stooge [ipodhacks.com].

    blakespot

  • by thatguywhoiam ( 524290 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:41PM (#10150854)
    Err...I didn't have any touble reading them. Sure, the white text is a little light, but it probably goes dark when you click on it.

    .. and that would work great, if I knew what I was clicking on before I click on it.

  • Re:ogg (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonvmous Coward ( 589068 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:45PM (#10150900)
    "MP3 encoding has been intentionally crippled to force the users to encode in WMA"

    Or it was to save on royalties that MS would have to pay for every single copy of Windows sold or Media Player that's downloaded.

  • by emilymildew ( 646109 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:45PM (#10150906) Homepage
    Insightful? Are you fucking kidding?

    How, exactly, my little anonymous friend, is MS "open" when compared to Apple? 'Cos I am totally not seeing it.
  • by pknoll ( 215959 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @01:49PM (#10150950)
    What is wrong with them? More money than God and they still can't manage to find a visual design that isn't completely retarded. Reversed text mixed with plain. Tabs - which don't look like tabs - separated by an arbitrary hierarchy. All controls with meaningful functions crammed into a too-small area at the bottom of the window, which sits mashed nicely against your taskbar, which is usually crammed with widgetry as well.

    Nail on the head, there, my friend. This has to be the best example of bad UI design I've seen come from Microsoft.

    You need look no further than iTunes on Windows for a counterexample. Apple does a better job of making a UI work in Windows than MS does? Heh. I might agree that iTunes' interface clashes with Windows overall look, but at least it's not as ugly as this, and to me it actually fits in better.

  • by norkakn ( 102380 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @02:01PM (#10151126)
    oddly enough, that is sorta how I feel. Whenever I have to work in windows I realize how many of the apps I use just aren't available.

    only 1/3rd of the apps in my dock have a windows port
  • Re:ogg (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Anonvmous Coward ( 589068 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @02:18PM (#10151333)
    "You shouldn't have to pay any royalties if you don't use Fraunhofer algorithms or code."

    You have to pay royalties if you include an MP3 encoder (not decoder) with your software. I'm not sure if you mean "shouldn't" as in "the license doesn't say that" or if you mean it like "patents shouldn't be used like that". If you mean the latter, then I'm curious how you think those dudes should fund their research into stuff like that.
  • Re:Ya know... (Score:2, Insightful)

    by dabraun ( 626287 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @03:12PM (#10151947)
    As soon as the media player knows how to look up tracks when you put a CD in it enters the realm of privacy issues - or are you saying you don't want that feature?
  • by syates21 ( 78378 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @03:12PM (#10151951)
    If you are such an expert on interface design, one of the principles you may have read about would be not just arbitrarily changing things for the sake of change.

    Millions upon millions of people have used Windows Media Player. They have had the transport controls in the lower left for at least a couple of versions now (read several years). Why should they arbitrarily move it around now?

    Plus, you seem to be assuming that the primary way that people get a song to play is to click the "Play" button, but since this is running on a Windows PC the user has presumably been conditioned to launching things by double clicking. In this case that is a heck of a lot more convenient than single-clicking a song/movie/whatever, then *moving the mouse* (regardless of whether it's up, down, left, or right), and click on a Play button.

    The rest of the interface looks pretty similar to previous versions to me. The main change seems to be the move of the section navigation from left tabs to top tabs. I'm not sure why they made that change, but it doesn't seem all that drastic.
  • by calstraycat ( 320736 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @03:24PM (#10152077)
    ...jeez, WMP 10's appearance is, like, a thousand times worse.

    Like many long-time Mac users, I'm not happy with the brushed aluminum Apple is using for so many of their apps, including the Finder.

    But, my God, WMP 10 is just awful in comparison.

    Next time I find myself getting annoyed with OS X's faux-metal theme, I'm going to force myself to crank up my PC and launch WMP 10.

    It's always important to remind yourself that things could be worse even on my minor, inconsequential matters. :-)
  • Sheltered life (Score:3, Insightful)

    by polyp2000 ( 444682 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @03:38PM (#10152193) Homepage Journal
    Even more spectacular is that it is free. Microsoft gives it away.

    Jeez, I can think of many many programs that "Spectacularly" for free, are even more "Amazing" and they really are free, you even get the source code! If you want to see some really spectacular stuff that comes for free, why not try one of the many great linux distro's that are out there!

    Where has this guy been the past few years? Seriously though what is so "Amazing" about Microsoft giving the program away? It would be "Spectacular" if they were giving away a product that were truly free, and free from DRM mechanisms, and isnt aimed fair and square at attacking the iTunes brigade.

  • Re:Testimonial (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bigman2003 ( 671309 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @03:52PM (#10152319) Homepage
    "microsoft does not offer more 'choices', every ms product that claims they offer more choice, they really mean that ms offers more compatibility with OTHER MS PRODUCTS, which absolutely does not count in the real world."

    Absolutely correct. Unless of course you are one of the ~90% of the people out there who do run their PC on Microsoft products.

    But for that OTHER 10%- you hit the nail on the head.

    Too bad 90% is just a niche- what the heck are they thinking when they release products to support that 90% niche?!?
  • Why bother (Score:5, Insightful)

    by bogie ( 31020 ) on Friday September 03, 2004 @04:42PM (#10152851) Journal
    Most people can't even figure out what to download to enable the ogg codec on their systems in the first place.

    Let's take the typical Windows Media Player user and say they want to play some ogg files.

    1) serach for ogg on google and you find vorbis.com. "Cool, I can't wait to play these ogg files I legally obtained."

    2) Try figure out where the "ogg" codec is and then click on the "vorbis" link.

    3) Select OS and to come to a page which doesn't list WMP and only seems to have some old versions of winamp and some media players they have never even heard of.

    4) Click "other software" because you can't find anything that will just let you play ogg files on WMP.

    5) Scroll through through over 30 programs and then give up because you can't find what you need. Those with more patience will keep scrooling till they find "OggDS Direct Show Filters" which is something like the 40th program on the page. Install the codec and then realize that WMP doesn't support ogg very well and avoid ogg files in the future.

    For whatever reason the people at Vorbis do everything in their power to keep people from using ogg in WMP and your asking why Microsoft doesn't do a better job at supporting ogg? Its a two way street.

    The link to the DirectShow version of the Format should be 2 clicks away from the front page listed right under playes. If the Vorbis people want to see ogg marketshare grow among enduser they need to do a much better job at A)enabling them to play ogg files in WMP and B) adopting and advocating a GUI win32 encoder and c) explaing why ogg is better than mp3. Saying its not patent encumbered and saying its as good or slightly better than mp3 is't going to cut it. I don't envy them for that hard a task but I'm also not the one putting out the software.

    I've said many times in the past that ogg is great for content producers. That does't change the fact that for all intended purposes ogg is very much a solution in search of a problem with regard to the idea of replacing the mp3 with consumers.
  • It's unfortunately all too common to expect this kind of FUD from Microsoft and their mindless proxies, like Thurrott. Of course, when Microsoft says they're all about choice, what they mean is they're all about enabling users to "choose" Microsoft.

    John Gruber unspins the inanity [daringfireball.net] much better than I can.

    This "choice" nonsense that Microsoft is FUDing is shamefully disengenuous.

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