Mozilla's Sunbird Reviewed 208
comforteagle writes "Mozilla Sunbird is the latest stand-alone application from the Mozilla foundation that follows in the footsteps of now revered browser Firefox and email client Thunderbird. OSDir reviews their first public release, version 0.2. Screenshots included."
It's 0.2, not 2.0. (Score:4, Informative)
Correction -- Version 0.2 (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Correction -- Version 0.2 (Score:5, Insightful)
Journalism 101
OH, and BTW... (Score:5, Informative)
Don't forget Chandler (Score:5, Informative)
sPh
Re:Heh... (Score:2)
Yep, but once again it's a name not taken out of the blue (I thought Firefox was before I had heard there actually was such an animal).
Sunbird isn't a reference to the code names Phoenix (or Firebird) either, but to this bird [wikipedia.org].
Re:Correction -- Version 0.2 (Score:5, Informative)
For those of you who don't know (from the project page [mozilla.org]):
Re:Correction -- Version 0.2 (Score:2)
Not only that, but read the introduction from the review:
Look familiar? That's called plagiarism. You have to paraphrase for it to be fair use unless you're critiquing the passage. Amusingly, the quoted passage doesn't tell what it is either. Clearly these people never studi
Re:Correction -- Version 0.2 (Score:2)
Re:Correction -- Version 0.2 (Score:2)
Re:Correction -- Version 0.2 (Score:2)
(I like the word fricken, BTW.)
It's the weekend, laugh a little. With me or at me, it dosen't matter much.
FP (Score:3, Insightful)
Actually... (Score:5, Interesting)
Kjella
Re:Actually... (Score:4, Interesting)
How about this system: each program can save data nuggets for other programs in data "gifts" little chunks of data encoded in XML or other easy format. Then the other programs can look in their "gift inbox", and choose which stuff to integrate.
This has two advantages:
1. programs dont have to have access to other programs data files. The control is always in the hands of the destination app, because gifts can be rejected at any time.
2. programs dont have to understand other programs data stuctures, or adapt to changes in database format.
3. For security, there could be shared keys in each program, that the gifts get touched with. So a program can choose to accept or reject gifts based on source.
4. It can extend to multi system environments with shared inboxes.
I know thats 4 not 2 but I got carried away.
Any comments?
an example:
a URL "gift" could be sent to Firefoxes Bookmarks menu. A contact "gift" could be sent to Thunderbird's Address book.
Re:Actually... (Score:5, Informative)
He means calls to the system API, or even the kernel itself, to handle application level functions.
While embedding application level code at a low level can certainly reduce the amount of duplicate code in memory and provide a certain core "integration" of products written against that code it also means that a crash or security flaw of an application can be a crash or security flaw of the system itself which can only be corrected by rewriting system level code.
He suggests that data exchange between applications instead be accomplished by the simple expedient of applications using a common data exchange format. It's a radical concept, I know, but it just might work. Someone might want to start down this road by devising a simple binary code for the alphabet and numbers and stuff.
KFG
Re: (Score:2)
Re:Actually... (Score:2, Informative)
There is an essential difference between having to end a task and restart it and having to reach for the big, red button; as well as an essential difference for a bug in an application to require a patch to the kernel.
As for your last point it just might be case that I want isolated applications because I want
Re:FP (Score:5, Informative)
That said, there is also a calendar plugin for both of these programs that can be made to use the sunbird calendar (all use the same file format, and you simply point them to the same file). A bit more work, yes, but ultimately useful.
I suspect that now is the time to speak up, and they will be able to fix the problems before a 1.0 release occurs.
Re:FP (Score:2)
Re:FP (Score:3, Informative)
Simply add the line:
user_pref("network.protocol-handler.app.http", "/usr/bin/firefox");
or the path to your desired browser.
Re:FP (Score:2)
Re:FP (Score:2)
Re:FP (Score:2, Interesting)
Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (Score:5, Insightful)
Anyone making software would be nuts not to try the competitors product. I mean, surely Audi engineers try BMW's to see what they have to compete against, right?
Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (Score:3, Insightful)
I would expect the engineers to do this. I would expect the designers to do this. I would expect the marketing department to do this.
I would not expect the guy who runs the safety testing facility to do it.
Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (Score:2)
Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (Score:2)
Oh wait...
Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly right!
In fact, that was one serious problem I noticed with Apple when I worked there. Nobody believed they had any competition, and nobody ran competitors products. Folks there really beleived, for example, that if you tried to plug a digital camera into a Windows XP machine you'd have to spend hours downloading drivers and dealing with BSOD.
It's SMART to know what the competition is doing. I'd be disappointed in Microsoft if they didn't keep abreast of the competitors.
Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (Score:2)
which planet are you from? (Score:2, Informative)
Everthing actually comes from the mozilla suite which is ONE APPLICATION.
Sunbird is stand alone implementation of Mozilla Calendar (ext), similar to browser (Firefox), or email (Thunderbird)
Re:which planet are you from? (Score:2)
Re:Mozilla tries the unintegrated method. (Score:2)
some integration would be nice (Score:2)
This is
Re:some integration would be nice (Score:2, Insightful)
that's 0.2 not 2.0 (Score:5, Interesting)
if they make it so I can sync with my P900 that'd be a big plus.
Re: (Score:2)
Re:that's 0.2 not 2.0 (Score:2)
Okay, if this is the wish-list thread, then I need to be able to set the default calendar to something other than My Calendar. Also it would be nice if it sat in the bottom right of the toolbar on my windows system instead of a whole tab. It's perfectly usable though and pretty amazing for a beta version. I'll stick with it as it grows.
Re:that's 0.2 not 2.0 (Score:2)
"At the moment Sunbird is in an experimental stage. Although it is quite stable, we recommend it for testing purposes only."
For those who don't want to RTFA (Score:4, Informative)
Isn't the text at the top of this page supposed to be a summary?
Summaries (Score:2)
But.. time and time again, the summaries are either inaccurate or important facts are left out.. Seems to be getting worse
Re:For those who don't want to RTFA (Score:2)
What's that name? (Score:2, Funny)
Re:What's that name? (Score:2, Funny)
They'll probably rename it to Sunfire before moving on to Sunfox and I can't wait for the Mozilla standalone download manager: GTO.
Goatbird and Firegoat are really going to suck though.
KFG
Problems with remote calendars (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Problems with remote calendars (Score:2, Insightful)
Works great for me. (Score:2)
Site's slow (Score:4, Informative)
Posted Sep 03, 2004 - 06:58 AM
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by Gareth Russell
Mozilla Sunbird is the latest stand-alone application from the Mozilla foundation that follows in the footsteps of now revered browser Firefox and email client Thunderbird. Gareth reviews their first public release, version 0.2.
(screenshots)
Sunbird is the new cross-platform calendar application from the Mozilla foundation. It is based around the existing Mozilla Calendar component and is the latest in a string of standalone applications from the foundation, which are gradually replacing the current Mozilla suite of applications. The aim of the project is to create a standalone calendar for someone who uses either Mozilla Thunderbird or Firefox as their email client or browser. Sunbird hopes to offer a reduced footprint and performance enhancement over the original Calendar component. Sunbird is still in the early stages of development and is certainly experimental software with version 0.2 having been released recently. Nonetheless Sunbird is a promising application for those of you already using Thunderbird or Firefox.
A word of warning though, as of the moment Sunbird does not integrate with Thunderbird or Firefox. It is purely a standalone project, although this is one of the tasks to be solved in the near future.
The most striking difference between Sunbird and its Calendar counterpart is the theme and visual identity. Sunbird has its own logo, which is somewhat similar to Thunderbird's along with a slick visual style that removes a lot of the harshness found in the default Calendar component's theme. If you're running Windows XP then this theme integrates well with the rest of your system. At the moment there is still no option to change the theme if you do not like it, although this should be expected in future builds.
The user interface is essentially the same as the Calendar components, this entails the use of a three or four framed system. A main frame provides an overview of the day, week, several weeks or month, whilst several sub frames provide information about events scheduled and tasks still to be completed. It is a flexible system that allows you to collapse windows to get the style you want but by default it feels rather unwieldy when it is compared to the more simplistic calendar components found in Outlook or Evolution due to the large number of windows on display.
There are some improvements that could be made to the user interface to make it more accessible to new users. Some of the more useful features are only available from the title menus these should be more easily accessible through the toolbar. For example a "New Task" button for the toolbar would be a welcome addition, instead of having to enter the "File Menu" to access it. Currently upon first glance, a user is left wondering whether or not such a function is available and only the task frame alerts you to its presence. The included keyboard shortcuts are of great use and once remembered they can dramatically speed up use of the program. As of yet there is no ability to change the shortcuts or to set up your own, but this is something to be expected from future releases.
Coloured tagging for events would also improve the interface of the application. Currently you cannot assign colours to event categories as you would in say Microsoft Outlook. These allow you to get a better overview of your calendar, as it is easier to relate colours to specific types of events rather than reading all of the available text. Coloured tagging could make the application appear less cluttered because you'd be able to get an easier overview of what is happening in the different windows.
The ability to create and maintain different calendars for different purposes is a nice touch although it does exist in other applications, but it is easier to move between the differe
two things... (Score:3, Insightful)
1) Open it up for extensions, the way firebird is. 2) until it can sync with mobile devices (palm, pocketpc.. etc), i won't be implementing it.
Re:two things... (Score:2, Insightful)
It will probably happen when all the extension code is ported from the branch to the trunk - currently, Sunbird needs to be built off the trunk of the mozilla.org CVS tree, but most of the extension manager stuff is in a CVS branch (from which Firefox 1.0 and Thunderbird something-or-other is supposed to build from).
I assume the Firefox people will port the EM stuff back into the trunk once Firefox 1.0 is done (s
Innovation (Score:3, Insightful)
Looks identical to Outlook's Calendar, even menu option names etc.
OSS seems to be totally following the MS way, including very little innovation.
Re:Innovation (Score:5, Interesting)
Not to say that calendars couldn't improve. Sunbird could do things like allow for RSS feeds from public calendar sites such as a theoretical ticketmaster or local band, theater, sports team, etc.
You do a pub/sub thing and when you look at your calendar you can filter through events or ideas and see events that you may be interested in and when they are. Why browse 5-10 different web sites when are trying to schedule a cookout or meeting with clients?
In fact I have been thinking about adding publish/subscribe type features to some of my company's products.
It does. (Score:4, Informative)
Re:It does. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Innovation (Score:2, Interesting)
Regards,
St
'Sunbird?' (Score:5, Funny)
Comments from the future! (Score:4, Funny)
Hey, did you hear Marsdove
Whoa, Son of MoonChicken
I really don't like the default theme in Helioavian
Crap, Venuspigeon
What do you mean your organization isn't Denny's SuperChicken
Finally SunFireBirdThing 1.0 is released!
My $.2 (or is it $2.0?) (Score:2, Funny)
2) Wait for overeager slashdot submitter to make typo, bumping version a factor of 1.8
3)???
4)Profit!
Ob. criticism criticism (Score:2)
there are plugin versions also (Score:3, Informative)
Also, the biggest problem I have: there is no way to make the alarm trigger a selectable sound? There's a checkbox to "play a sound," but that's it, and if it actually does make a sound, I can't hear it across the room. Sadly, even the alarm clock in Windows XP's Plus pack beats this with a wet noodle. (Except, of course, when the alarm clock just fails to trigger at the time, which is whenever you need it most)
Re:there are plugin versions also (Score:2, Informative)
Re:there are plugin versions also (Score:2)
No, I don't program, so I won't be coding anything
I'd donate to Mozilla again, but I just quit my job and went majorly in debt for school. So... what can I do?
Damn that was quick! (Score:4, Funny)
Sounds like someone was bored last night and couldn't sleep
Apple and Mozilla are both missing the point... (Score:5, Interesting)
Woo hoo. WebDAV. Could I be any *less* excited? WebDAV calendars are not going to replace a *real* calendaring/scheduling system any time soon...
Unfortunately, even open-source project I've seen that has attempted to tackle this problem has very quickly fallen apart.
Please, somebody, take a look at Corporate Time or the older Netscape Calendar Server. *That's* what we need. An LDAP-integrated, replicable, multi-user calendaring/scheduling system with a web client that was pretty much the equal of the full client application and integrated quite nicely with the email client.
Netscape SuiteSpot is what made Netscape Communicator Pro make sense. If anyone out there in a development team would like it, I would be more than happy to provide a copy of my my old SuiteSpot CD for reference/testing purposes...
Re:Apple and Mozilla are both missing the point... (Score:4, Informative)
http://wp.netscape.com/calendar/v3.5/
But someone needs to *run* these servers (Score:2)
Server-side bookmarking, calendaring, IMAP...where is my open standards serving company?
Re:But someone needs to *run* these servers (Score:2)
Exchange Server? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Exchange Server? (Score:2, Interesting)
Anyway
Re:Apple and Mozilla are both missing the point... (Score:3, Interesting)
The mental hurdle that I have with WebDAV systems is how to implement the ability for someone else to add an unconfirmed meeting to your calend
Re:Apple and Mozilla are both missing the point... (Score:3, Funny)
Serving is the key (Score:5, Insightful)
Palm Pilot. (Score:4, Insightful)
Don't forget the extensions for Firefox/Tbird (Score:3, Interesting)
The Thunderbird extension is a different story, because the extension system does not seem to be in place. I followed the directions to go to tools -> options -> extensions button, and there is no extensions button.
A failing of Thunderbird 0.7.3, it seems, maybe it is in the nightlies, dunno.
All I can say is: If Sunbird follows the kick-ass nature of Firefox/Tbird, this seperate "suite" is going to be perfect, IMO.
Heck, Firefox fixed (read: got rid of) the find toolbar, and Thunderbird would be perfect if they added a "Sync" button to avoid the File -> offline -> download/sync -> press enter if setup, but remember it only is available if you've clicked on your PRIMARY ACCOUNT/Folders.
Arugh!
Yet more clicking and re-accessing the menu.
C'mon guys (and gals) I LIKE buttons that make life easier.
Heck, I like blinky lights and shiney objects, too!
OOOoooo!
Where was I?
NOT stand-alone. (Score:2, Informative)
Comment removed (Score:4, Insightful)
Sunbird's OK but kinda buggy (Score:5, Interesting)
And like I said, it's buggy. For example, I sucked in my old Outlook calendar in ical format using a converter, and it kinda puked on recurring appointments with exceptions. In fact, it appears that if you have a weekly meeting but you try to delete more than 5 or so of the individual recurrences, it starts forgetting about some of them! Pretty annoying. As a result, the old Outlook habit of setting up a weekly dept meeting, and then hitting delete on individual meetings that are cancelled doesn't work with Sunbird.
Still looking for a decent group calendaring app for UNIX users.
Come on! (Score:5, Insightful)
#2 Of course it looks like Outlook Calendar, until MS Sues and then it will look like something else.
#3 No Synch, yet, see #1.
#4 It is a basic calendar app, no frills, see #1.
#5 Some day, the Mozilla development teams, will find a way to Integrate Thunderbird, Firefox, and Sunbird into something more productive. Just not today.
In your summary... (Score:3, Insightful)
My biggest opensource gripe. (Score:2)
How friggin hard would it have been to slip the word "calendaring" in between "stand-alone" and "application"? So many sites on soruceforge don't even tell you what the hell the software does... sometimes you can figure it out by reading through the changelog
Yeah, the article was stupid, BUT.... (Score:2, Insightful)
No, the app isnt ready for prime time just yet, but I've played with it and I really dig it for what it is.
Like most of the mozilla family, Sunbird just sits there waiting to be told what to do. It's FAR from robust at this point, but for a single user that has trouble remembering family birthdays, its not a bad little application. It'll come up to speed eventually, and the fact that with a little toying around I managed to store the calendar
iCal compatibility? (Score:2)
That's new, because a few months ago, Mozilla wouldn't even show the TITLE or TIME AND DATE of a calendar entry created with iCal and published to a webDAV server, or vise-versa. It was pretty pathetic that compatibility was broken on such a basic level between two apps which claimed to be using the same standard. If things hav
Critical features missing (Score:5, Funny)
Will it let me set an appointment for December 3rd by typing "M-e C-f M-e C-f C-f C-f i d Important Meeting C-x C-s"? Will it tell me when sunset will be in Dublin, Georgia exactly forty-seven weeks from today when I type ". C-u 47 C-n S -82.9 RET +32.33 RET"? Will it schedule a monthly appointment on the fifth day of every month of the Hebrew lunar calendar when I type "g h RET Tishri RET 5 RET i h m It's the fifth day of the month! C-x C-s"?
I'll be sticking with the Emacs calendar, thanks.
Integration with other programs/devices (Score:2, Informative)
It's not Apple's iCal standard (Score:4, Informative)
Standalone Composer? (Score:2)
Try Nvu (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Wait.... (Score:3, Insightful)
"Sunbird is the new cross-platform calendar application from the Mozilla foundation"
There ain't no iCal on Win32 nor Linux.
And as far as mozilla ripping off netscape, I think you have it backwards.. netscape is built on top of mozilla.
Re:Wait.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Duh... (Score:3, Interesting)
You totally have your chickens and eggs backward.
Netscape comes from Mozilla, not the other way around. All of it's functionality is imported directly from the "development version", Mozilla. That's why now that we have a new stable Mozilla platform, lo and behold, Netscape 7.2 is announced!
As for the calendar app, it's a clone of Outlook's calendar page. With 100's of thousands of users already accustomed to using it's UI, there is a
Re:Duh... (Score:2)
And before anybody bitches about Mozilla copying Microsoft in this regard, one needs only to take a look at Evolution.
Re:Wait.... (Score:2)
You have never used Mozilla or Firefox, have you?
Re:Wait.... (Score:2)
Mozilla grew out of Netscape's decision to release the Navigator source code in '98 or '99. I won't go so far as to say they share the same codebase but they they are related.
Hence, it's not really fair to call Firefox a clone.
Regarding the GUI, I must say that I agree with you, at least in part. It's neither
Re:Dyslexic Version 2.0 - Real Version 0.2 (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Close, but I think I'll stick with Evolution (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Close, but I think I'll stick with Evolution (Score:2)
Re:Brain rot! (Score:2)
Re:Revered? (Score:2)
I like Firefox as much as the next guy, I'm using it right now, but Reverence? Please.
To misquote the late, great, Bill Shankly -
Some people think using Firefox is a life of death issue. It's not. It's much more important than that.
;)