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Redmondmag on Dumping IE 442

Posted by CmdrTaco
from the go-on-everybody's-doin'-it dept.
nSignIfikaNt writes "Here is yet another article discussing options to using IE. This one is from redmondmag.com who claims to be the independent voice of the microsoft IT community."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Redmondmag on Dumping IE

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  • by carcosa30 (235579) on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:42PM (#10433244)
    Options to using IE? Should be "Alternatives To..."

    And besides, IE is not even an option for anyone serious about, well, serious about anything.
    • by Anonymous Coward
      i dont kno what all you shafts probelm is but ie works just fine for me. shit it just crashed and i had to retype it but then i got a million popups and accidently closed slahsdot and now im just typing this to say THERES NOTHING WRONG WITH IE. oh crap jpeg virus duck!
      • by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 04, 2004 @06:02PM (#10434664)
        Being more serious. How to migrate a clueless n00b from IE to with minimal future support:

        1. Download/Install Firefox itself
        2. Download/Install Sun Java Runtime, do necessary fiddling to get Firefox to use it
        3. Download/Install Flash plugin
        4. Download/Install Shockwave plugin
        5. Download/Install all necessary streaming media plugins
        6. Download/Install Googlebar plugin. This is optional but probably a Good Thing. Configure until said clueless n00b offers free coffee.
        7. Add 'obvious' trusted sites like mozilla.org to trusted sites list (I can't believe mozilla forgot this!) Be very careful here.
        8. Turn on all automatic updates (remember, we are talking about clueless n00bs here)
        9. Make sure all bookmarks, cookies etc have been correctly migrated by checking with, yes, you guessed it, the clueless n00b... (I've never had a problem).
        10. Delete all unnecessary IE icons (or if they are really clueless then just redirect them to Firefox)
        11. While you're at it remove PDF from MIME associations, Acrobat takes zonks to load up, make sure it doesn't load in a tab but downloads as necessary. [While you're at it why not clean Acrobar of the unused plugins? It'll make it load an order of magnitude faster]
        12. Set default download directory to something more sensible than the desktop (optional). Go through the options (possibly consulting your n00b), configure.
        13. Teach n00b how to use tabbed browsing, integrated searching, pressing '/' to find something etc etc. Teach common keyboard shortcuts. RSS bookmarks if not THAT much of a n00b. Watch n00b face light up with unrestrained glee! Relish free food, foot massage etc by n00b.
        14. Explain your undying hero worship for Charles Babbage, why Darl McBride is Satan, the contents of Bruce Schneier's latest cryptogram, and why Eberlin's Slashbot rhyme r0xxors. Attempt explanation of the concept of bash.org. Get kicked out by increasingly freaked out n00b, safe in the knowledge that you are battling Evil.

        WARNING: above not to be used in ALL situations, only for the 'I want my IntarWeb' types.

        I'll leave links/more detailed steps/other suggestions/corrections/'u 5uxx0rs' to people who need the karma. If you're going to Spread Firefox then do it right!
        • by Anonymous Coward on Monday October 04, 2004 @06:28PM (#10434866)
          I didn't get what the Slashbot rhyme thing was about, so I'm reposting it here. Original thread http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=118242&cid=999 4109. Sorry Eberlin for copyright infringement!

          Slashbot Rhyme

          I make a dash to the Slash to the D-O-T
          Coz them news for nerds makes sense to me
          So let this serve as a warning to the spammers and trolls
          You may have a fat pipe but you ain't got bawls.

          There's a new manifesto by ESR
          And the stats of the watts of a hybrid car
          I gots love for Perens and miguel, et al
          And I voted CowboyNeal on the Slashdot Poll

          I'm Microsoft bashin' like every single day
          Coz the OS got holes and Exploder's teh gay
          Now SCO's talkin' trash so I give firefox a ride
          To reply as a Coward so I can hate on McBride

          I will flame you with language I won't say to your face
          And I bet you can't guess who gots all your base
          There's one way to know if your server is rotting
          Just post a link and you'll get a slashdotting

          You can mod me down coz I'm a karma whore
          And I'm a decorated veteran of a recent flame war
          Where they fought about an app with a K or a G
          And a heated debate on what was meant by "Free"

          As a slashbot, when Linux receives a threat,
          My palms begin to sweat and my evil bit is set
          You best believe I'll be posting a rant
          And I'll be surfin' Slashdot 'til my mom says I can't.
        • Good list, but for the bit of hand waving in step 5. :-)
          Mozillia.org is not defaulted as a trusted site because it could be comprimised when you install. Given that the home page defaults to mozilla.org, this would be unacceptable for a parinoid security policy.

          Although, given that the senario being discussed is migrating from IE to Moz, that doesn't make much sense.....

        • by _xeno_ (155264) on Monday October 04, 2004 @08:10PM (#10435612) Homepage Journal
          7. Add 'obvious' trusted sites like mozilla.org to trusted sites list (I can't believe mozilla forgot this!) Be very careful here.

          They didn't forget. This is on purpose.

          If you place mozilla.org as a trusted site, this would include bugzilla.mozilla.org as trusted (since it matches against the end of the domain). Anyone can upload anything to bugzilla.mozilla.org as an attachment to a bug report - including XPIs.

          This would make it very easy for a malicious user to make you install a bad XPI from a "trusted" site.

        • While you're at it, install adblock and upload your list of blocked strings, and install mouse gestures so they work when middle-clicking. Noobs might not ever use it, but then again, they might, and find themselves puzzled how they could ever have used IE. These are features that I can't browse without once I got used to them, which was very fast.
        • Or, install Opera (http://www.opera.com/ [opera.com]), and spare yourself from half those steps. Sweet browser indeed.
        • by suckmysav (763172) <suckmysavNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Monday October 04, 2004 @10:41PM (#10436379) Journal

          I use Firefox.

          I like Firefox.

          What I don't like about Firefox is its installer. When new a new version comes out you have to uninstall the old one before you install the new one, or else you end up with two entries in your "Add/Remove programs". If you then remove the old one, the new one breaks and must be installed again. This was last noticed when upgrading from b0.93 to PR1.0

          This behaviour makes it more difficult to support clueless noobs than it should be, as when a new vuln is discovered it is not as simple as it should be for them to upgrade their systems (after be prompted to by yours truly) by themselves. It becomes necessary to provide them with step by step instructions which often look rather daunting to clueless users. "I never had to do stuff like that before" is a common response.

    • by pbranes (565105) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:05PM (#10433586)
      This is what I tell everyone that I help support. If you are a serious web user, you need to be using Firefox. The mantra that I repeat is: firefox reduces spyware, viruses, and security holes in your system.

      With the latest version of firefox, it checks for program updates automatically, it downloads program patches, and it attempts to find necessary plugins for pages and install them if you tell it to. Firefox is about to reach the point to where the adoption rates start increasing exponentially.

      • "With the latest version of firefox, it checks for program updates automatically, it downloads program patches, and it attempts to find necessary plugins for pages and install them if you tell it to. "

        Sounds like everything i hate about IE with default configuration ?
    • "And besides, IE is not even an option for anyone serious about, well, serious about anything." ... except for viewing 99.999% of the sites on the web.
      • by bendermannen (817161) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:11PM (#10433674)
        Funny. I use Firefox at all times. I have no problems with viewing 99.999% of all sites I visit. And I'm dead serious all the time.
      • by AviLazar (741826) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:13PM (#10433688) Journal
        Please note that your statement does not confer the meaning that programs like FireFox cannot view 99.999% of the sites on the web.
        I have only encountered one website (other then MS windows update page) that gives me a problem via FireFox, and then it is only a loss of part of its functionality.
  • by L-Train8 (70991) <Matthew_Hawk.hotmail@com> on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:42PM (#10433252) Homepage Journal
    Redmond used to be called MCP Magazine, as in Microsoft Certified Professionals. I got a free subscription when I got my MCSE, and the magazine has certainly had a focus on Microsoft certification. Much of the advertising is related to training boot camps and testing aids, and there are monthly statistics on certification. The name change is very recent, as I guess the magazine is trying to broaden it's appeal.
  • by grunt107 (739510) on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:43PM (#10433275)
    Internet Explorer is the Swiss Cheese of software--it's full of holes.

    I'd think it was more like the Limburger of software - it stinks.
  • by stratjakt (596332) on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:44PM (#10433285) Journal
    Every time some guy I've never heard of working for some online e-zine I've never heard of writes an article bashing a Microsoft product, is it really worthy of attention?

    What does Roland Pikapuile think of all this? Please include a link to his blog in the submission.
  • by rmy1 (815018)
    The Mozilla guys should patent "tabbed browsing", allowing royalty free use in any browser who requests it. With one exception, of course (IE)...
  • by CodeWanker (534624) on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:45PM (#10433301) Journal
    It's nice to see an article about this. All we're witnessing here is the natural evolution of the internet browser system... A monoculture gets decimated by pathogens, and that opens up niches for newer species. This is what any monopoly leads to when it's not protected by some level of government.
  • by NCatron (103418) on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:46PM (#10433311)
    The article points out that Microsoft may add popup blocking to IE... is it just me, or did that already happen with WinXP SP2?
  • by Jailbrekr (73837) <jailbrekr@digitaladdiction.net> on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:48PM (#10433324) Homepage
    What better way to evangelize IE than to encourage its own rabid userbase to try out competing browsers? They will try it out, get turned off by the minor differences (such as tabs), and then switch back to IE and be able to say "I've tried the alternate browers, and they are CRAP".

    I'm not trying to stereotype microsoft users, I am merely presenting a "devils advocate" viewpoint.

    • Well, I really don't think that you can use "rabid" to describe IE users. I mean, if that's the case, then what are Mozilla/Firefox users? "Fanatical"? "Insane"? "Driven to a jihad by a bizarre mental condition centering around software"? You have to reserve some space for the insanity that is the Open Source fanclub that *easily* dwarfs what IE users and developers feel about IE.
    • by meganthom (259885) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:02PM (#10433544)
      My parents, after tons of proding from both my brother and I, finally gave alternative browsers a try (being the scientific sort, we had them try Mozilla, Firefox, AND Opera), and they like all three better than IE. They took to the tabs instantly, and I never hear any complaints about Pop-Up ads. Nor do they have any trouble with plugins for Flash, etc. And while my dad is relatively computer savvy, my mom repeatedly needs to be reminded of how to download/upload attachments. Really, I think all three browsers were well designed with a general population in mind.
    • by attam (806532) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:18PM (#10433743)
      They will try it out, get turned off by the minor differences (such as tabs), and then switch back to IE

      how does one get turned off by a feature that is totally non-intrusive if you want it to be? it's not like firefox forces you to use tabs. but for the people out there (like myself) who never knew what they were missing, it may be a very welcomed change and a reason to leave IE for good.
    • I've tried the alternate browers, and they are CRAP

      You're quite right, that's actually what one of my coworkers said. He had got tired of IE popups and security problems and I mentioned he could try Firefox. He liked the tabbed browsing and the popup blocking, but he didn't like the pluggin support (actually having to download plugins when most of the necessary ones are installed by default on IE such as Java). Also, our internal bug management system has a web frontend with lots of java that would ran
  • by Entropius (188861) on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:48PM (#10433338)
    ... I discovered the voice mode of Opera (win2k/XP only, sadly) last night. The thing accepts voice commands: hold down scroll lock and tell it things like "reload", "back", "close window", "zoom in", etc.

    You can even select a bunch of text and tell it to "speak", and it will read it to you.

    Incidentaly, I had just discovered WinXP's onboard voice synth. A group of people were at a Krystal's and wanted to contact a friend.

    We realized that:

    --Nobody had a cell phone
    --Krystal's has wifi! (I boot up my laptop)
    --Our friend wasn't on AIM or similar
    --I have a VoIP client... we can call him!
    --We have no microphone
    --WinXP has a voice synth!

    So, with a little mixer tweaking, I routed the voice synth output into Skype's input, called the poor schmuck, and had Microsoft Sam read him a message. (which was, if I recall, "We will be playing Starcraft at ten o'clock and such-and-such a place. Interested?")
    • by papasui (567265) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:00PM (#10433512) Homepage
      Laptop: $1500
      Wireless Access Point: $80
      Broadband Internet: $40
      VOIP Service: $20

      Calling your tinfoil wearing, goverment conspiracy theory lovin' friend with a computer generated voice to play a game of strategic conquest: Priceless.
      • Laptop: $1500 Wireless Access Point: $80 Broadband Internet: $40 VOIP Service: $20

        Using a phone booth, $0.35. When your brain works, things are easy. For everything else, there's a credit card waiting to suck the rest of your life.

        XP users, they are so clever.

  • by ARRRLovin (807926) on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:49PM (#10433354)
    With a required OS upgrade to get the latest features and security, can one consider IE "free" ?
  • AdSense (Score:5, Informative)

    by Smallpond (221300) on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:50PM (#10433366) Homepage Journal
    One thing the author claims is:

    My Web site uses Google AdSense to display context-sensitive ads to my users. The AdSense administration site works only with IE

    This seems dubious. The google site claims that you just need javascript. Can anyone who uses AdSense verify this? I'm guessing the popup blocker in firefox thwarted this guy's limited computer savvy.
    • Re:AdSense (Score:5, Informative)

      by LynchMan (76200) on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:53PM (#10433403)
      I use adsense, and had some issues logging in with older versions of FireFox (.7 and below I believe). But the recent versions have worked fine...
    • I use adsense without any trouble. I don't even remember seeing anything that said IE was needed.

      Here's a wierd one for you: My wife can't use Firefox to read her work's Exchange-driven webmail system, but it works just fine with Konqueror.
    • Re:AdSense (Score:2, Informative)

      by Rude Turnip (49495)
      AdSense works just fine under Safari (KHTML) and FireFox 1.0PR (Gecko). The author is either ignorant or a liar.
      • Re:AdSense (Score:5, Informative)

        by colonslashslash (762464) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:10PM (#10433658) Homepage
        Aye, I have a couple of AdSense accounts, I have never actually accessed the administration page from anything but Mozilla / Firefox, and I have never once had a problem with it. Nor do I remember ever seeing anything on Google's AdSense pages advising users to use a specific browser.

        Complete bullshit.

  • Bad facts... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Nos. (179609) <{ac.srrekeht} {ta} {werdna}> on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:50PM (#10433367) Homepage
    From the article:
    Which brings me to the real question: Can you live without IE? I try to use Firefox as my main browser, but I find myself firing up IE from time to time out of sheer necessity. My Web site uses Google AdSense to display context-sensitive ads to my users. The AdSense administration site works only with IE...
    Well, I've been using Adsense for about 2 months now, and I have yet to open it in IE. I've only used Firfox so far, both on Windows and Linux, and never had any problems.
  • Time to Dump IE? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by mcwop (31034) on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:51PM (#10433382) Homepage
    Yeah like, two years ago.

    The darned thing still does not have tabbed browsing for god's sake. How long does it take MSFT to copy that one.

  • Oh yeah? (Score:5, Funny)

    by FirstTimeCaller (521493) on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:52PM (#10433387)

    But corporate users don't spend a lot of time playing with DirectX-based games, listening to Windows Media Player, or checking e-mail with Outlook Express.

    I don't think they know the same corporate people that I know.

    • Re:Oh yeah? (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jawtheshark (198669) *
      Depends on your corporate environment. Where I work, we run Windows NT4 (properly separated from the internet) on brand new Dells. Sound cards? Yeah, the machines got them, but there are no drivers. DirectX? On NT4? DirectX 5 was the last one, I think.

      Outlook Express? No trace of it, even IE is at 5.0 or so... We do use Outlook 98, but as I said.. properly firewalled.

      I don't think that corporate setting is somehow exceptional.

  • Why doesn't (Score:5, Insightful)

    by hackstraw (262471) * on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:54PM (#10433430)
    MS just give up on the browser, and add some "ie like features/extesions" or some other specific windows features/native gui like Camino for OS X to mozilla and/or geko that are optional to make some broken websites work until the websites get standards compliant and be done with it?

    To my knowledge, MS only makes money off of IE by licensing it to people like AOL (and that is a wierd thing, and another discussion), but they make nothing off of having it bundled with the OS, and would loose nothing by bundling some other browser.

    It seems evident that there are issues with having a webbrowser tied so closely to the OS. Most of people's issues with switching from IE is that 1) ie is just there, so what else is there to use, and what else is better? 2) There are a few too many broken websites that end users blame the browser for if the website does not work properly.

    And if someone feels like adding a completely off topic tangent here. What is up with the IIS websites and those damn "go to # on this page" links or whatever? They are annoying because I don't know what they are doing, and they sometimes break (even in ie) if I open them up in a new window or tab. Grrrrr....
    • Re:Why doesn't (Score:3, Insightful)

      by jm92956n (758515)
      Microsoft doesn't make any money on the browser itself; however, the broswer allows them to make money through associated activities. IE's default home-page (MSN) sells more than enough advertising to make the entire operation profitable.
    • Re:Why doesn't (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Because they aren't stupid?

      Seriously. IE a crucial one of many, many means MS has of keeping people locked into their OS, which is their real cash machine. Giving up any of many, many means usually gains them nothing and potentially loses them everything. They would be dumb as hell to surrender on the browser front (or any other front, for that matter). It is in their best financial interest to keep people locked into their stuff as long as possible.

  • cunclusions retarded (Score:3, Informative)

    by $tendec (818143) on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:55PM (#10433444) Homepage
    got this from the bottomAlternative browsers may not offer perfection, but they offer plenty of features, though with less manageability. Last I checked mozilla allows much greater manageability of cookies, images, popups, downloads...hell i can't think of anything EI does that is easier to manage.
    • Management in this case being enterprise management of IE configuration, rather than the ability of the end user to manage their cookes, etc.
    • by onpaws (685894)
      IE is better managed in corporate infrastructure installations. From Active Directory and Group Policy Management, one can set up connection settings, website caching, security settings (such as trusted sites, page persistence), lock certain panels, and most other things can be controlled centrally from any Active Directory server.

      Last I checked, Mozilla and Opera did not offer such things.

      Please advise.
  • by The Fifth Man (99745) on Monday October 04, 2004 @03:59PM (#10433498)

    Create Windows installation CDs that won't install IE (and/or many other things, like Outlook):

    A howto + files for Windows 2000 [vorck.com]

    Free (as in beer) software with no howto for Windows 2000, 2003, and XP [msfn.org]

  • by 0x461FAB0BD7D2 (812236) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:02PM (#10433539) Journal
    Netscape also offers 7.1 of its venerable browser...It'll be the last Netscape-branded browser AOL produces.
    What about Netscape 7.2 [netscape.com]? Technically, it is Mozilla 1.7, but it does have AOL-produced add-ons.

    For example, Mozilla issued a patch that stops the browser from allowing an attacker to execute applications on a Windows system--something we're used to dealing with in IE.
    For those of us that remember, the shell: vulnerability was because Mozilla passed it on to Windows to handle, and Windows failed at handling it. That's why Mozilla "patched" it.

    Anything ActiveX-based won't work
    There is an ActiveX addon for Mozilla.

    Interesting too that he brings up the issue that non-IE browsers would be harder to manage using Microsoft products (ISA Server, etc.). I wonder why that is so.
  • AdSense FUD (Score:5, Insightful)

    by peterdaly (123554) <petedaly@ix.[ ]com.com ['net' in gap]> on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:03PM (#10433557)
    I have been using AdSense for well over a year, starting a month or two after it was released. I have never seen any IE specific features. I first started using AdSense with Mozilla, more recently with FireFix. Seems like he may be having other problems, and jumped on the blame Mozilla scapegoat. Maybe he disabled JavaScript.

    -Pete
  • by Gannoc (210256) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:04PM (#10433581)
    "See? We don't have a monopoly! See! See! Now, go ahead and make your little browsers while we lockdown digital media. And seriously, Fuck Apple. No really, fuck'em."

  • by Eloquence (144160) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:07PM (#10433601) Homepage
    If you use Mozilla or Firefox, click this link [faser.net]. It's a fully powered application that you can run directly in your web browser. It uses XUL [xulplanet.com], the Mozilla project's XML User Interface Language, and JavaScript. It's like Java applets without the crappiness.

    This is what Microsoft must be afraid of: cross-platform user interfaces with pluggable scripting languages and super-easy application deployment. This is why they originally fought Netscape - they were afraid that Netscape would become a "platform" independent from the operating system layer. And now exactly that is happening, thanks to open source. The people who designed this stuff were some true visionaries.

    The Spread Firefox [spreadfirefox.com] initiative may seem like a trite marketing effort. But in reality, it is one of the best ways to enable people to switch to other platforms tomorrow. I really hope that the Firefox hackers will get SVG support ready soon, as this is one of the other key features that can have immediate amazing benefits.

    • Security (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Sweetshark (696449)
      While this is impressive, Mozillas XUL also introduces some security hazards. Right now they are not really used, but see this example in the 0.9 Firefox Series [nd.edu] shows the spoofing/phishing possibilities. IE got into trouble by integrating too much with the OS, XUL might integrate mozillas to far too...
  • by theolein (316044) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:09PM (#10433647) Journal
    My title above is a disclaimer. I am a Mac user, and only use a PC via VNC to view webpages in IE. That said, I found this article pretty straightforward about the pros and cons of IE and alternative browsers from a Windows point of view. The guy make valid points about centralised management of IE vs. the standalone path of Firefox et al that would be a question in mainly Windows environments.

    That said, all of these problems can be overcome by a good admin who thinks creatively, and I seriously doubt that much active development is going into ActiveX using sites these days.
  • by Anita Coney (648748) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:13PM (#10433690) Homepage
    About a year ago I started using Mozilla. Now I use Firefox. I've never needed to use IE for anything. Where are these sites (not including those run by Microsoft of course) that force you to use IE?!

  • by Chuck Bucket (142633) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:14PM (#10433704) Homepage Journal
    Really, IE is just so out of date I can't imagine anyone using it unless they have to. I'm still showing off Firefox at my work, but only have 2 others using it. Now that it's about to go 1.0 it should be easier, I love the RSS feature, the Https 'yellow' highlighting and the find-as-you-type new features of 1.0.

    All in all I think the only thing that IE is good for is to cause my Mom's Dell to download viruses and trojans so I get the Support call!

    CB@#$%^&
  • by zpok (604055) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:28PM (#10433845) Homepage
    I've downloaded it several times already, but always something happens that makes me open Safari again and forget about FF.

    I've installed it on my wife's Portable (XP) though, and feel a lot better. Her IT guy seems to be quite good, but it's always me trying to keep her PC up to date, so that's one less worry.

    I've noticed that FF behaves a lot better on a PC than on the Mac - compared to the alternative. Doesn't crash, is faster and overall renders better.
    If it weren't for Safari, I'd probably be using Firefox too. I'm curious how much marketshare FF has on the mac.
    • That's a very good point. I initially put Firefox on my Mac, to use the same browse I use under Windows and Linux, but stopped using it instead of Safari when I found it slower and less reliable on Mac than on other platforms.
  • Even DirectX? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Mia'cova (691309) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:33PM (#10433905)
    "and even DirectX, are all, in my opinion, overly integrated and give hackers too much access to core PC functions."

    Wasn't that the point of DirectX? To provide more direct access to hardware for purposes such as graphics? That's why you couldn't play games in windows 3.1 and had to use DOS; you couldn't get at the hardware. The trick is how to do it safely.

    It sounds like this guy's taking one idea and applying it to everything here. There are some things that do need kernel integration for performance reasons. As for doing it with your browser, I don't really see the point. Integrate all the browser's IO by way of tcp/ip, win32, directx, etc and leave all the rendering engine out of kernel space. But microsoft is probably doing exactly that for the most part. It's hard to say what's part of the windows operating system (kernel) and what just ships with it. Sure there's a lot of stuff that you can't uninstall but that doesn't mean that stuff isn't bound by the same rules that an application like firefox is bound by. It's pretty hard to say how integrated IE really is or if most of these bugs are just there because MS ships when stuff is just "good enough.
  • Opera User in Pain (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Deliveranc3 (629997) <deliverance@le[ ]4.org ['vel' in gap]> on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:42PM (#10433993) Journal
    I use Opera but getting gmail to support it has been an uphill struggle.

    Too bad as I find it an excellent browser.
  • by ortholattice (175065) on Monday October 04, 2004 @04:59PM (#10434127)
    OK, I can't stand it anymore. Most of the article was a rehash of what we already know (with some inaccuracies that the readers here have dutifully pointed out), but there was one thing that glared out at me, that no one has discussed here. (I'm probably making a mistake posting this so late at top-level, no one will ever see it, but at least I'll have done my duty for the record.)

    Of course, you could use MSI repackaging tools for easier deployment through SMS, Group Policy or some other tool, but it's a shame that these vendors haven't realized the market potential and made their products more accessible to corporate IT departments.

    Now, to be honest I have no idea what an "MSI repackaging tool" is. Like an RPM packager or something? Maybe someone can explain. Anyway, it sounds like it might be relatively easy for someone who has this tool to do, and (if they're feeling in the spirit) make the package available. Or heck, maybe even sell and support it! It sounds like this might have a major appeal to corporate IT departments, who usually have some money to toss around.

  • by Proudrooster (580120) on Monday October 04, 2004 @06:29PM (#10434874) Homepage
    I have been doing some guest teaching at a local high school and when the kids found at that I ran Firefox and Mozilla my credibility quadrupled. As long as Google, GMAIL, E*Trade, and EBAY work with Mozilla I'm good.

    On the other side of the age spectrum, Firefox is the ultimate geriatric browser since old-folks who will click on nearly anything that moves can do the least amount of damage to their PC's.

    However, I wouldn't count IE out just yet. People will be flocking back in droves when the new Palladium/DRM IE arrives. It will keep users safe from any copyright infringement while installing even more spyware.

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