The Ultimate MacDate 706
Hack Jandy writes "Anandtech - the PC hardware site - took the Apple challenge and tried a Mac out for a month. The result was the most indepth Macdate I have even seen. As quoted by Anand, 'In the end, Apple has developed a very strong platform.'"
20 IE Windows?!!! (Score:5, Informative)
When writing an article (especially big NDA launches), I'd have around 20 IE windows open, Outlook with another 5 - 15 emails, Power Point with NDA presentations,
20 IE Windows??? Man, this guy has got to get a copy of Firefox [mozilla.org] and learn the joy of tabbed browsing.
Installing apps (Score:5, Informative)
He doesn't need to feel so disconnected. All the files are exactly where he put them, nowhere else. Mac applications are actually directories packaged up to look like individual files. All the files he saw copying were just part of the application directory. Nothing to worry about.
Re:20 IE Windows?!!! (Score:4, Informative)
Cheaper than Dell (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Installing apps (Score:5, Informative)
There is a lot of open source software for MacOSX (Score:5, Informative)
To install fink, you need to give a root account on Mac OS X even though there is an administrator account. Mac OS X does not have a root account as default for security.
Re:Office 2004 for PC? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:20 IE Windows?!!! (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Cost (Score:5, Informative)
Cause I"m sitting here on a AMD 2500+ Barton with 1 gig of RAM, 120 Gig HD, Geforce Video, DVD/CDROM burner all for around $600.
Built it myself. Sure, it's not a dual processor with DVD burner...but it's fast and stable.
But I will say that Apple has been consistant with their prices...their top of the line machines have always been around the 3000 mark. But at the moment they only have one machine that's below 1000, and that's with very little RAM.
Do NOT get me wrong, I LOVE Macs...but you do have to pay a premium to use them and yeah, I think it's worth it. I just can't afford it...yes, I'm poor.
Re:Nice little blurb about Windows... (Score:2, Informative)
Coral Cache Link (Score:1, Informative)
but, you're free to try it
Re:Installing apps (Score:5, Informative)
Maybe what he was noticing was the result of some settings/preferences/whatever being copied to his library, which many applications will do on the first run, but not when you install them.
On the other hand, more and more OSX apps have actually gone to using an install program, including Apple's apps, which I find unfortunate. I like the whole drag-and-drop method of installation.
Re:20 IE Windows?!!! (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Office 2004 for PC? (Score:5, Informative)
Office 2004 is the Applized version of Office XP. More info here [microsoft.com]. Outlook is renamed Entourage btw...
And... it's probably more correct to say that Office XP is a Windowized version of Office 2004, since much development/innovation at Microsoft is implemented first at their Apple department in California (not in Redmomd like the rest of the stuff). As an example, they tried out a sidebar in IE for Mac. Dont think it ever made it to Windows...
I wouldnt say you are insane, just that you misread the PC/Mac stuff. Some apple software ends up on win32 though, like iTunes.
Re:Cheaper than Dell (Score:3, Informative)
Re:20 IE Windows?!!! (Score:2, Informative)
Ctrl+W.
Single Window Extension [mozilla.org] or Tabbrowser Preferences [mozilla.org].
Re:Installing apps (Score:3, Informative)
The only exception to this is poorly-written games which assume they have write access to their own directory (which may not be the case even if they are copied to writable media-- depending on user access privileges.)
Firefox also freaks out if you try to run it from its disk image. Not pretty.
Re:Cheaper Macs (Score:5, Informative)
I have a two year old PowerBook. It's beginning to feel a little sluggish to me here and there. Apps take a couple more seconds to open than I like, but I'm spoiled by having a dual 2Ghz G5 at work. EVERYTHING feels slow by comparison.
That said, the feature mix on my PowerBook is awesome in a very portable package. A few years ago I bought a dining room table for my computer at the time (a Wintel box) and it's peripherals. Now we have the PowerBook in "office nook" in the kitchen. The size and portability are huge plusses to me.
Now, if you really need a little more power, consider one of the new G5 iMacs. The housing is VESA-compliant, so you can wallmount it. Add an Airport card, wireless keyboard, and a wireless mouse if you want nothing but a power cord.
Given the trade-offs, I'd definitely make the same decision to purchase a PowerBook.
Now, as for comparing Wintel laptops to Powerbooks. I find that much of what makes a computer seem fast or slow is the smoothness with which the OS runs. The G4 chip is not going to perform as well as the newer P4 laptops. However, the OS runs VERY smoothly, so it FEELS more powerful than many Wintel laptops. Animations are silky. Expose provides incredibly slick window management when you have 20 things open in 12 different windows. Multimedia is smooth even when you are busy doing other things.
Like I said -- go try it! The Apple web site will point you to the store nearest you.
Re:But I like my apps.... (Score:2, Informative)
Dont run Outlook, dont use IE. Tell you what, you start holding your breath and I'll tell you to stop as soon as I get a virus or trojan. Kay?
"Apple isn't losing any sleep over the incredibly tiny minority of users who are in your shoes and who can't afford to switch. Not that I believe your $100,000 figure in the first place. How many one-man freelance operations out there need Maya/[insert other über-expensive software here]? (Then again, why should I believe a guy who thinks assembling an iMac from Apple-branded parts constitutes "building" a Macintosh?)"
So only an "incredibly tiny minority of users" buy software? As for building a Macintosh, your right if you buy parts off eBay (or even retail) lighting comes down from the sky and strikes you dead. So its impossible, and all the auctions and web sites selling parts and upgrades are just trying to kill you.
"For the rest of us, our employers will provide the software necessary to get Real Work(tm) done, and the software besides that *isn't* that expensive. Even if you had to re-purchase every single game you own for the Mac platform (and you typically don't, since a lot of games can be had in cross-platform CD versions now, with both Mac and PC versions in the same box), that would still be well under $10K, and if you're *that* into PC gaming, why the hell are you buying a Mac in the first place?"
What? Photoshop, 3D-Studio, Autocad etc are expensive. Buying Macintosh equivilents or versions costs money and thats just the tip of the ice berg for the software I own and use. As for games, I thought we where talking about "real work"? Non the less, most games dont have a Macintosh version, on the CD or any other place.
Re:Cheaper than Dell (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Cheaper Macs (Score:5, Informative)
This Powerbook flies. The 1.33 GHz G4 is damn fast for a mobile chip, i.e. something that won't suck down batteries like an Irishman sucking down Guinness. Maybe more importantly, the FX Go5200 in here allows OS X to take advantage of Quartz Extreme. Let's face it, with a laptop people are generally going to be more concerned with responsiveness than absolute number crunching power. By offloading system graphics to the GPU via Quartz Extreme, OS X is incredibly responsive.
Through work, I've used some nice (for Dell at least) mid-range laptops. My Mac feels faster in comparison. although I've been a Mac user my whole life so part of it may just be that I'm more comfortable with the system. Either way, I could say for sure that the Mac will not be noticeably slower.
Also, speed aside, you would be hard pressed to find a Windows laptop that will compare with a Mac on the features to price ratio. I've yet to see a $1600 Windows laptop that comes with a comparable CPU, comparable battery life, dedicated GPU, built-in 802.11g, and built-in Bluetooth while still weighing in at 5 lbs.
Re:Installing apps (Score:5, Informative)
A fun Mac experiment:
- Drag an application onto the taskbar. This will create a shortcut. Now move the location of the application. The shortcut will still work!!!
- Open a text file in TextEdit. Move the file. Make a change to it in TextEdit. Notice that TextEdit doesn't care you moved (or renamed) the file, it writes to the correct place! No more accidentally duplicated files!
Gotta love the Mac file system!
Re:There is a lot of open source software for MacO (Score:5, Informative)
As for linux envy... OS X is a BSD derivative! http://darwinports.opendarwin.org/ [opendarwin.org] and http://gentoo-wiki.com/Gentoo_MacOS [gentoo-wiki.com] are some more ports friendly systems, as opposed to Fink's apt-style system. Maybe "Linux curious" would be a better term ;)
Re:Cost (Score:5, Informative)
More significantly, that AMD box (albeit lacking in details) seems to have specs roughly equivalent to a G5 iMac, maybe a little faster, but not much. Add a name-brand 17" DVI flat panel to it (you don't mention a monitor for that price), and you're awfully close to the price of the new iMac, without the sleek design, the small form factor, the hardware qualification, or the pre-installed OS. So much for your big savings.
Re:20 IE Windows?!!! (Score:3, Informative)
1) cycle through tabs by rolling the scroll wheel when the cursor is over the tabs.
2) back page by right click, move mouse left.
3) Forward page by right click, move mouse right.
4) And CTRL+Mousewheel does zoom in Firefox for me, although it does not zoom as well as Opera, in my opinion. Basically just changes text size, no images zooming, formatting within frames or CSS gets kinda wierd. So I guess You still do have the zooming thing. Which isn't much of a deal for me in particular, but for people who's vision is going and would normally need glasses for reading, this is actually a very useful feature. More usable than most ADA hacks I've seen
But in my experience, Mozilla just has a more polished feel. This is something that very pieces of OSS really seem to get right, and I congratulate the Mozilla team on working this through. No cryptic configuration files (I may be able to properly configure one of these, but our Aunt Tillie may have some more problems with it.) I enjoy the light footprint that the browser takes up on my screen space, The ad-blocking and pop-up/pop-under general annoyance control are VERY effective, and best of all, just about every website (with the exception of SlashDot... I've heard a fair number of people complain about this) that I visit regularly seems to render properly, and if it doesn't I usually think twice about trying to load it up in a different browser, because often times that means some IE hook for delivering unwanted (in my mind) advertising content to me.
Oh, and one thing that FireFox shares with Opera is how fast pages seem to load. Sure, I'm theoretically limited by the file throughput, and don't have anything to back up my observations, but FireFox and Opera (Along with Mozilla to a lesser extent) just FEEL fast when rendering pages. I remember this effect MORESO back when I was on dialup. I don't know if Mozillas/Opera try to start rendering before the whole html file is downloaded, or if they do this with displaying partially loaded images, but the feel was just somehow much much faster.
Re:Cheaper than Dell (Score:1, Informative)
The cheapest PowerPC G5 I could manage, there's no monitor by the way this is JUST a tower -
Dual 1.8GHz PowerPC G5
256MB DDR400 SDRAM (PC3200) - 2x128
80GB Serial ATA - 7200rpm
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra w/64MB DDR SDRAM
Combo (CD-RW/DVD-ROM)
Apple Keyboard & Apple Mouse - U.S. English
Mac OS X - U.S. English
Subtotal
$1,870.00 [apple.com]
Now for a PC, I'll put in an AMD FX-53, gotta be fair, compare the top end PC to the bottom end G5.
ASUS "SK8V" K8T800 Chipset Motherboard [newegg.com] $172
AMD FX-53 [newegg.com] $650
512 MB DDR2-533 (PC 4200) Corsair Valueselect [newegg.com] - 2x256 (for dual channel support) $130
250 GB Western Digital SATA 7200RPM Hard Drive [newegg.com] $156
nVidia GeForce 6800 GT [newegg.com] $369
Logitech MX1000 Wireless Optical Mouse [newegg.com] $75
Plextor 8X DVD-RW/+RW Drive [newegg.com]$95
Microsoft Natural Keyboard [newegg.com] $41
19" Perfect Flat Viewsonic CRT [newegg.com] $250
Some Random case, that kind of resembles the G5 case in a different color (with PSU) [newegg.com] $65
Subtotal
$2,003.99
Damn you're right the apple is cheaper. Oh wait that's right I priced out the PC with the best video card, processor, double the ram, over triple the hard drive space, great mouse (with more than one button!), and a great keyboard. Oh and I forgot, a 19" CRT, if the CRT wasn't there the PC would actually be cheaper (and still better since the Apple didn't even come with a monitor.)
Apple's are sweet computers, but they're VERY expensive. The PC has an advantage since many many companies make parts for PCs, only one company makes apple hardware, and do they even sell any of it by itself if you want to build your own?
Web rendering speed (Score:3, Informative)
Im.
Re:Office 2004 for PC? (Score:5, Informative)
And missing the obvious... (Score:4, Informative)
Very frustrating. Until you figure out how to use Cmd-O.
Re:Hello, mods... (Score:3, Informative)
Well, I really did just switch. And I really did disclose that I work for Apple. What's the problem? When a big interview with Miguel goes about about what Novell is doing, do you immediately ignore the article because of the inherent bias? "OMG Miguel WORKS for Novell!"
Re:Installing apps (Score:4, Informative)
It's all the media mounts. You'll notice that all your drives are listed there, along with any DMG, SMB, FTP, or otherwise mounts.
Opening your drive will show you the top level, but it hides the Unix directories like
Re:Well now (Score:5, Informative)
You're right on this point. However most people could give a damn about flexibility. They want a machine that isn't going to get eaten alive by viruses every other week. Windows does not provide this. Period.
As for the other points you raise, aside from gaming I have never had a problem finding either hardware or software for my Mac.
I am also not a Mac zealot, as I use Linux, Windows, and OS X on a regular basis. I have to say for servers Linux wins every time. For games Windows wins every time. For actually getting work done, OS X wins hands down every time.
Re:20 IE Windows? Well, if you have expose... (Score:1, Informative)
Back when they called themselves WinExpose, they *did* recieve a note form apple legal, that's why they're called WinPlosion now.
Re:20 IE Windows?!!! (Score:3, Informative)
If you don't want it opened in a new tab.... (Score:2, Informative)
In the url bar enter without quote marks "about:config" and hit enter.
In the filter bar enter without quote marks "new".
Then double click browser.block.target_new_window so that it is set to "true".
Re:I am not surprised (Score:3, Informative)
I got it to experiment with putting Gentoo Linux on it...heard good things. I decided to dual boot it. I've been using OSX a lot at the beginning...while I was installing and figuring out how to get Linux on it. More and more...I find I really like a lot about the OSX side. Its really a learning experience...I think I'll be even more comfortable once I get a replacement mouse that had 2 buttons and a clickable wheel....I really miss the Linux/Unix way of clicking with left button to drag to highlight...and just click middle button (wheel) to paste. I understand with will work on OSX too with a new mouse.
Overall..I do like it. I think I'll really like it more when I can figure how to get the Gentoo for OSX portage kit put on...and start to run more native X applications on it.
I'm still having to finish the Linux install...got to troubleshoot some problems with it not waking up from sleep...and occasionally locking up hard for no reason on the Linux side...so, till I get that rectified...I'll keep using OSX more. The more I use it, the more I like it. Even when the Linux side gets fully functional...I'll still jump back and forth. And I'm looking forward to trying to run MOL (Mac on Linux) while in the Linux partition...and have the best of both worlds.
Re:Office 2004 for PC? (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah... except for Outlook [microsoft.com]. Sure, it's the OS9 Office 2001 version, but you didn't specify MacOS X. And you can run it in Classic.
Re:I (guiltily) like macs for scientific computing (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Well now (Score:4, Informative)
http://guide.apple.com/
Re:Cheaper than Dell (Score:3, Informative)
* Your case is not comparable, the G5 case (and internal design) is much nicer.
* Your RAM type doesn't match what the motherboard supports.
* DIY vs. Pre-built.
This was for a desktop machine. Try the PowerBook (Score:3, Informative)
I've been using a 12" PowerBook and it's the finest piece of hardware I've ever used. Obviously I haven't tried everything, but between many desktops and laptops, this is the easiest, most usable machine for light-to-medium office work and database development.
Portable, snappy, painless wireless and bluetooth (out-of-the-box), and OSX. It's just beautiful.
Re:Linux user considering buying an iBook (Score:3, Informative)
Everything always looks and acts the same, unless it's a ported OSS app. You have no idea how nice this is, until you've tried it for a month or two.
It doesn't use X11, so you actually get a consistent, clean UI that actually works.
Photoshop. No, the GIMP is just a toy, no matter what you think.
Driver support! They don't offer much, but what they do, works flawlessly. Contrast with spending a week trying to get a Wacom tablet to both a) insert the module correctly into the kernel, and b) get Xf86 to acknowledge it correctly.
Re:I am not surprised (Score:5, Informative)
Yes, the language itself is a travesty, but thena gain, so is bash. And just like with shell scripting, there are all sorts of convenient replacements, like the AppleScript-JavaScript bridge.
w00t.
Re:I am not surprised (Score:0, Informative)
This has been discussed so many times but people just don't seem to understand that OS X != BSD. Saying OS X gives you a solid BSD install is a huge simplification.
Re:A bit underwhelmed by the review... (Score:1, Informative)
Apple is selling a whole-package, a very media-rich machine. They don't want their consumers realizing 6 months after the purchase of a computer that they need an upgrade to interface in their digital camcorder, or burn a DVD or whatever.
Apple is trying to lead the way and promote the concept of media manipulation to the mass market. They want it to be on every machine they sell, not just the 'top of the line'.
If you want to buy a $400 Dell box with an inferior motherboard chipset, limited maximum RAM, a slow throughput bus, etc etc etc, then go right ahead. If you want a PC that actually does more than the bare minimum, don't forget Apple in your comparisons.
Also...
So while the PC was missing some features from the Mac, the Mac was a lot further down the features scale if CPU power and hard drive space are important considerations
Excuse me? Please don't tell me you're stupid enough to believe the Megahertz Myth. Please, please, please. A 2 GHz Celeron is still a Celeron, with all the cut corners.
And harddrives are cheap. Nothing is stopping you from swapping a new drive into the Mac when you start to run out of space.
Re:Pedantic Retort (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Cheaper than Dell (Score:3, Informative)
And it comes with a 17" LCD
BUY RAM (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Cheaper Macs (Score:3, Informative)
Actually, iBooks can do dual-head too [rutemoeller.com]...
The rest of the Powerbook extras do sound as if they'd be potentially very useful for many people, but (apart from the faster processor) I think I'll stick with what I've got. It makes my iBook seem like even better value, but if anyone wants to give me a Powerbook, it'd be more than welcome!
Re:A recent switcher (Score:1, Informative)
It's a nifty $20 utility that turns MPEG2 into DV. It also chops up the DV into <2GB segments that iMovie can handle, and creates an iMovie project file that, when opened, has the clips sitting on the clip shelf waiting to be used.
Stuff has been flying out of my TiVo and onto DVDs in the weeks since I found this.
~Philly
Re:Office 2004 for PC? (Score:2, Informative)
Unfortunately it's not too stable...
Even mail.app supports public folders as well
http://www.microsoft.com/mac/products/entourage20
Re:mac = suckage (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Installing apps (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Installing apps (Score:1, Informative)
But then it just kept copying along, no problems, not even a hickup. I was very impressed!
Re:I (guiltily) like macs for scientific computing (Score:3, Informative)
You can print to PDF from ANY application in OS X. No need to "convert" or use a specific program.
Re:Installing apps (Score:3, Informative)
For Aliases (equivalent of shortcuts) both a path and a HFS file id are stored (also a disk id that can include network information... even passwords if you choose). The file id is tried first, and if it fails, then the path it tried. Only after both are tried does the operation fail. All of this is done in low level code, so programmers don't get a chance to screw things up.
For programs that have open files... then things work this way if you use the Cocoa file handling system. It does all of that work for you, and you never have to notice. It even handles things like atomic-writes, so you never have to deal with that (although as a programmer I wish that it handled re-setting permissions better).
If you use other API's (Carbon, pure Java, or POSIX) then you get the more "normal" behaviors expected from those systems.
Re:I am not surprised (Score:2, Informative)
The lack of legacy PS/2 ports on the Mac would pose a problem, but KVM/IP or KVM/USB work fine.
iPhoto
Indeed. Real photographers use a 3rd party CMS/workflow solution anyway, while there are cuter solutions from Adobe and anyone else for consumers.
still picture capture
Built in to the operating system...
printing to a networked printer
Autometic network printer discovery makes things easy. It begs you do do it the first time you print.
As far as the hardware itself, as I said it looks nice, but it's cheaply made
They come off the same production lines as many commodity PC laptops, so yes, they are cheaply made. But, unless you are using a PowerBook where you should be using a hardened unit, this isn't normally a problem for end users.
you have to snap off 4 of the function keys to get at screws just to start
The keyboard peels back as a unit by pressing two tabs. The structural screws are under the detachable keyboard itself, and on the lower chasis (you would know this if you're as good at servicing things as you later claim).
or $30 each if you try on your own
Not a user-servicable part unless you want to void warranty. Not a part that needs servicing unless you are attempting repairs in the field that should be done at the factory.
except for 2 design flaws
Please, fail to elaborate on this point when you criticise everything else in such detail...
Re:I read this article... (Score:1, Informative)
I don't have a Mac, but some at my work do, so I see OSX every day, but I don't actually use it. So there are likely many nuances that are missing. I'd just go buy the Mac if I had tons of money to drop into a new system. Until that day arrives, linux, KDE, and the ever-improving state of open source makes a PC good enough for me.
Re:Things that make it nice. (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I am not surprised (Score:2, Informative)
Sure, I'm mostly a Unix hacker anyway, so I'm not a typical 'gotta have all the software written for me' kind of computer user, and I don't play video games, or have any 'office' needs which can't be met with vi.. so OSX is really mostly icing in the already well-made cake.
Still, I have to admit, I am sorta surprised that its 2004 now, and the #1 vendor of Unix is Apple. I don't know why its a surprise, but its a surprise.
I'd had a lot of hope for SGI, back in the day.. if only they'd made it, and done a laptop worthy of the SGI legend! I wish someone would get into the 'making a better laptop Unix than Apple' competition now, anyway..
Re:I am not surprised (Score:4, Informative)
You will be more comfortable, although the machines don't ship with two button mice, the OS supports them seamlessly.
In the meantime, you can turn your trackpad into a 3 button trackpad with a scrollwheel by getting sidetrack here [ragingmenace.com].
"I really miss the Linux/Unix way of clicking with left button to drag to highlight...and just click middle button (wheel) to paste. I understand with will work on OSX too with a new mouse."
Sadly no, the Linux method of copy/paste won't work except in X11 applications, but OS X supports text drag and drop which can still be done entirely without moving your hand from the mouse, and is independant of the clipboard.
"Overall..I do like it. I think I'll really like it more when I can figure how to get the Gentoo for OSX portage kit put on...and start to run more native X applications on it."
It wasn't until I started using OS X as just another Unix with a fancy GUI that I really started to feel comfortable.
As a person coming from the linux world, you might want to install the GNU fileutils, which is the same ls/rm/mv/cp/ln/chmod/chown etc that Linux uses, then just alias to the GNU versions instead of the FreeBSD tools it comes with.
Re:I am not surprised (Score:3, Informative)
I should probably release my system but it's so hard to set up that very few people would use it. I was writing an installer a while back but stopped due to a lack of time.