The Ultimate MacDate 706
Hack Jandy writes "Anandtech - the PC hardware site - took the Apple challenge and tried a Mac out for a month. The result was the most indepth Macdate I have even seen. As quoted by Anand, 'In the end, Apple has developed a very strong platform.'"
Welcome to the club... (Score:5, Interesting)
Cheaper Macs (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I am not surprised (Score:5, Interesting)
I'm not surprised either. I used a Mac back in 1985, but then ended up on DOS/Windows boxes until about 18 months ago. Having switched and used a Mac for this period of time, I would NEVER switch back to Windows. Heck, I made it a requirement of accepting my last job offer that I have a Mac, not a PC.
Why? Because the Mac gives me the best of both worlds - a Unix box (BSD no less), and a fantastic UI. I've been a Unix guy for a LONG time (1980). Linux is great, but when it comes to Unix-like boxes, I'll take the Mac any day as a user environment.
I've switched my whole family - we now have 4 macs in the house. I got my pastor to switch to the Mac, and when I was a consultant, several comapnies I supported took my advice and switched. EVERYONE is happier than they ever were on the Windows box.
thorough and fair (Score:5, Interesting)
The PC Weenies: [pcweenies.org]Tech toons with a byte!
Re:Cheaper Macs (Score:5, Interesting)
I was in the same position you are not too long ago(http://apple.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/0
I ended up purchasing a PowerBook 1.25GHz 15" machine for around $2,600... My experience is basically that the PowerBook FEELS as fast as most notebooks you'd buy in doing every day things (word processing, browsing, email, etc)... the interface is extremely snappy that way, and I rare ever need to run around closing apps to speed your system back up.
That said, if you plan on doing any extremely intensive processing... program compiling, etc... (that's about it), the raw power behind the cheap is disappointingly slow.
That said, I haven't touched a Windows machine for a significant length of time since I picked up my PowerBook 9 months ago, and after experiencing the awesomeness that is Apple, I'd rather complain that my Apple is a little slow than be proud that my Windows/Linux laptop is a little fast.
Re:Installing apps (Score:5, Interesting)
Even Mac apps that don't use installers need to put various pereference files, support files and the like in certain directories, such as the user's Library folder. THis is actually done at first launch. The Anandtech guy apparently thought that they were installed when he dragged the app file over; that would creep me out, too, if dragging one one file actually dragged a bunch into seemingly random locations. But the file system isn't that magical; the application just created those files/folders as needed. No mystery here, no need to feel disconnected.
Re:I am not surprised (Score:3, Interesting)
*I say "sort-of" because he still has Windows desktop and laptop, but he hates the spyware and other junk that gets on those. He seems to prefer the Mac.
A recent switcher (Score:5, Interesting)
Moving the Linux stuff to the iMac was a breeze. I was mainly using the linux box for running Squid, for acting as a shell server for IRC, and for a general purpose file server. The iMac does all that and now does easy print sharing for me as well. With BSD under the hood and the power of (a href="http://fink.sourceforge.net">Fink, anyone used to Linux can probably easily move their stuff over to OSX painlessly.
Moving the Windows files was painless using the built-in SAMBA on OSX. I installed OpenOffice (under X11) for times when I need compatibility, but I'm intentionally staying away from MS Office on OSX for now, just to see if OpenOffice is good enough. I'm giving up gaming on the PC, which I'll miss a little, but I've got a GameCube and PS2 which can get more use now.
The real strength of OSX is in iLife. My wife really had a lot of trouble with Windows and the complexity of all the different apps we had to use to manage media (ThumbsPlus, Premiere, etc.) With iLife, she can publish or email or get prints of photos out of iPhoto very easily. iChat and iTunes are nice too. I've had quite a few MP3 players, but the iPod plus iTunes is the first one I didn't have to manage for my wife.
As an aside, the iMac G5 is a beautiful machine too and it's totally silent. Spookily silent. When I walked into the home office after shutting down the windows and linux box, I thought we had a power outage.
I think Anand's review is accurate and very fair. The only thing I would add is just a comment that for anyone non-technical or anyone with a lot of digital media, I think an apple machine makes a lot of sense, especially with the low cost of the new iMacs.
(disclaimer: apple employee
True, but FF supports both (Score:3, Interesting)
* The browser window size is predictable; that is, it won't change from one tab to the next, unless you change it for all of them.
* The browser window location is predictable; same reason.
* The number of things floating around on your desktop/taskbar is controllable. Having all those browser windows open slows you down in the most common use scenarios.
OTOH, your point about being able to switch back and forth between web pages is well taken. For that reason, it's still easy to open a new window: right click, new window (same as IE). Middle click is tab by default; I'll bet there's a FF extension somewhere that lets you do double-middle-click as new window.
Linux user considering buying an iBook (Score:3, Interesting)
I have a question for people who've used both sorts of systems: Are there any features/characteristics of x86 Linux machines that are lacking on OS X machines?
I (guiltily) like macs for scientific computing (Score:5, Interesting)
Now we are at a point where many people at my institute are switching to macs. The top reasons are: 1) Hate to/don't have time to RTFM. Need a situation where hardware you buy just works. 2) High-end mac prices are now comparable to high-end intel prices 3) Any document can quickly be made into a PDF (a standard in our community)
As a fan of free software, I feel guilty about this. However, I do think many of Apple's products are aesthetically pleasing, and things like iChat works with amazing simplicity. Clearly they put a lot of thought into design, and I agree with a lot of choices they've made, so I feel OK about supporting them.
I wish Linux would eliminate the RTFM. Some of us just don't have time for that. But I still have an Intel laptop, and I intend to see how far things have come since RedHat 9 by installing sarge when it is out.
Seconded... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Installing apps (Score:5, Interesting)
Yep. It's very simple. You're supposed to dump all your DLLs in c:\Windows\System32, then all apps can access them. Amazingly simple and beautiful (*gufaw*) isn't it?
That's actually where the term "DLL hell" comes from. And now you know, the rest of the story.
Re:Linux user considering buying an iBook (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Nice little blurb about Windows... (Score:3, Interesting)
Move your Windows task bar to the left or right side of your screen. (I prefer the left side.) In a vertical task bar configuration you can have 40-50 applications open before the bar 'fills up'. I also turn off 'always on top' so I can get the full use of my screen. This also allows you to set the task bar's horizontal width so you can read the applications' names displayed in the task bar. Clicking on the visible edge of the task bar brings it to the foreground if I need to access any thing on the task bar itself.
Re:Well now (Score:5, Interesting)
Perhaps, but there's no guarantee that it will work very well.
I'm not talking just about dinky little shareware apps, mind you. I fired up Microsoft Word the other day after not using it very often for quite a while. Word must be the most intrusive program I've ever used! It kept moving text around on me, reformatting it, and telling me that I'd misspelled things. A long look at the preferences failed to reveal a way to turn off many of the features which were getting in my way.
Unfortunately, Word does the same sh*t on the Mac. But fortunately, most other programs don't. Using both platforms, my feeling is that Mac programs present a much more consistant interface. And there's more than enough Mac software out there that outside a few very narrow, very specialized fields, anyone will be able to do their work on a Mac.
Re:I am not surprised (Score:3, Interesting)
And Windows has been frustrating for as long as I can remember. Linux, although more stable, brings its own nightmares with it. During summer upgrade time came along, and I bought a Powerbook. I get portability, power (relative to other laptops) and ease-of-use. If I must use Windows I have VPC.
In addition, I'm no longer tethered to the phone-home crippling of Windows and Office XP. The last two times I had to format and install those two (an experience I hope to avoid from here out), I also had to call MS central. I don't like being treated as a criminal when I'm trying to legally use products I bought.
In short, I don't want to sound like an Apple ad, but I'm quite happy with the Powerbook. That doesn't mean you should get one, or that there aren't reasons to stay with Windows, but I'm pleased. And so is the parent poster.
Re:A recent switcher (Score:5, Interesting)
BUZZ! Wrong Answer. That answer doesn't make any sense to me!
Whether Windows does or not is irrelevent(sp?) to the arguement! You're saying that this platform, which is known to be on the pricier side of the computer experience, is unwilling to pay for mpeg licensing? Doubtful, and if it's true, then it raises the issue of the Macs price/value even further. Pay more, and get less? I don't like the idea of that (although I'm sure the "Macs are overpriced crowd would love to add it to their collection").
Then, let us also consider that many of the included applications can output mpeg video. How could they avoid licensing fees for editing the but not be forced to pay for creating and outputting the format?
It also raises the question of why no 3rd party's stepped forward to offer the codec as an addon for OS X. If the issue were simply licensing, it's a given that someone would be filling this gap and selling an addon to allow this.
Finally, all of OS X's competition offers mpeg2 output for nothing. Windows, Linux, BeOS even did, if I recall. To me this could be considered "low hanging fruit" to Apple, yet there's no way to do this currently.
So, not to disagree, but I'm disagreeing with your take on the issue
Re:I am not surprised (Score:4, Interesting)
Oh, nice thing about AppleScripts in these OS X days is that we have do shellscript (or sometihng).
Re:Pedantic Retort (Score:5, Interesting)
You are right that the MacOS is pricey. On the other hand, every release of the MacOS to date has included slick, glitzy features like Expose. And every release of the MacOS has worked better with existing hardware than before.
For example, I have a PowerBook G4 400mhz. It was the first of the G4 PowerBooks, introduced in January 2001. This system flies under MacOS X Panther. I remember feeling it was sluggish at times when I first bought it but now it feels reborn. That's an OS upgrade that delivers real value!
In contrast, consider the upgrade from Windows 2000 to Windows XP, which confused the heck out of users by changing the options completely around, and managed to slow down even machines that were lightning fast under 2000.
Microsoft hasn't introduced an upgrade since XP, not because they're not greedy enough to want our money, but because they have been slow in improving on the now ancient system. I'm not so sure that's a good thing.
By buying MacOS upgrades, you're financing an innovative development team that continuously produces wonderful surprises. Sure, we have to pay for them, but at least they come, and they delight us.
That's not so bad.
D
Re:Ballsy (and wordy) (Score:2, Interesting)
the directory structure seems very foreign because it's different from Windows
This totally awesome Binary Watch [thinkgeek.com] on my wrist seems very foreign because it's different from a bullet going through my head.
Anand criticizes the price of the system he bought several times. He spent about $2700 on a top of the line, dual processor G5 because:
I knew that if I was going to give the platform a good chance, I needed to get the fastest system that Apple had to offer.
Unfortunately, it probably never occurred to him that if he'd bought a nice $1300 iMac G5, with much lower specs, his user experience would have been just about thew same. Those cycles only come in handy when you're doing compute-intensive stuff. I run a 1GHz G4, even slower still, and get the same kind of Safari/Mail/Word performance he does. I really wish I had a G5 every time I've got 20 audio plugin instances running in my Pro Tools session, along with the obligatory 32 tracks and a DV movie.
Re:I am not surprised (Score:4, Interesting)
And even then. Since consoles are really starting to come into their own, and Microsoft is encouraging the usual Windows games developers to develop for their console, you really have to ask yourself whether you still need a PC for your games?
With the games argument assigned to the consoles, you no longer have to include that as a major requirement when buying your computer. Because of that the Mac becomes more appealing, as does any other non-MS-Windows solution.
Re:Linux user considering buying an iBook (Score:3, Interesting)
If you're the sort of person who lives in Emacs, be aware that the iBook's Ctrl key sucks. I wonder if it's possible to swap Ctrl and Caps Lock.
Re:Installing apps (Score:3, Interesting)
This is not true. You're supposed to put any DLLs that are actually supposed to be shared by applications other than your own into %WINDIR%\System32. DLLs required only by your program are supposed to go into the program's directory, usually "C:\Program Files\Developer\Application". Any DLLs needed by only your programs, but an assortment of them, belong in "C:\Program Files\Common Files".
The fact that lazy and/or stupid programmers put the files into C:\Windows\System32 is not, repeat not Microsoft's fault. SOME of it might be their fault but I seem to remember the same directory structures were around in Windows 95. Also, in Windows 95+ and NT4+ you can register a DLL anywhere on the system and if the program looks at the registry to find the functionality instead of expecting a DLL to be in the %PATH% then it doesn't matter where it is. In other words there is no reason for any DLL not related to a driver to be in System32, and even drivers don't really need to be there.
Blaming Microsoft for DLL hell is pretty lame. It's honestly not their fault. Should they have designed the system such that you couldn't put anything in that directory unless it was part of a driver install?
Re:Installing apps (Score:3, Interesting)
I got sick of "that file is open" errors in Windows, especially the notorious AVI "file is in use by an application" bug that's been around for several years.
I Relate 100% to this article (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:mac = suckage (Score:1, Interesting)
I'm a system administrator in charge of a multitude of *nix, Windows, and OS X boxes. I help support roughly 300 Macs, over 500 Windows machines and a handful of servers running anything from OS X, Windows, Linux and even FreeBSD. This is in a university environment where different departments have vastly different needs. I am intimately familiar with all three platforms and since I also do consulting on the side and do training seminars for students, faculty and staff, it sounds like we have similar backgrounds.
Macs are not perfect, but if you have machines crashing on a daily basis, you have problems with hardware or with how you deployed OS X. My guess is you're an old Windows or *nix admin who grew up hating macs and refuses to learn and adapt in order to do your job. Trust me, I've met more than my share of people like you. I've been administering Macs since System 7 and I cannot begin to explain my frustration when I walk into labs and offices maintained by incompetent admins who have no knowledge of how to configure and deploy the systems they support and departments who work to make deploying a heterogeneous environment as difficult as possible.
I have labs running 27/7 and the only time the machines are restarted is when I run updates that require them to do so and when we are upgrading or cleaning the machines. These include Powermac G3s, Powermac G4s, Powermac G5s, iMacs, iBooks, and Powerbooks. Heck, one faculty member even managed to get a Cube. Since the move to OS X about two years ago, I have had maybe 2 actual kernel panics and all were the result of bad hard drives or memory. Maybe once or twice in the semester we need to repair the directory structure on a drive because a student kicked out a power plug while it was writing but this can be corrected in 5mins with a firewire HD and a new image... I won't even begin to discuss the ease NetBoot, NetInstall, and even RADMind can bring if you have the infrastructure to support them.
Applications, themselves rarely crash and when they do, they do so gracefully. In fact, the worst problem we have lies in the finder being tied up while connecting to file shares and the fact that OS X does not have native support for Windows DFS. Despite these shortcomings, the Macs are still significantly more stable and easier to maintain. In fact, our students are beginning to use our Macs more because they tend to be more reliable on our Active Directory-based network. Yeah, I said Active Directory...
You may try to explain your problems away by stating I'm not deploying the same software. I have labs that run OS X with all the Adobe and Macromedia applications. We run MS Office, Final Cut Pro, Shake, Logic, Quark, Mathmatica, Maya, and many other custom and highend scientfic apps. It usually only takes me a few hours (At most a day depending on the software and supporting files) to create a Mac image compared to two or more days to create a Windows image where most of that time on Windows is spent applying updates, protecting it from viruses, and modifying the registry.
Sorry, but I simply see no justification and no facts. In my experience and the experience of many of my colleagues, Mac OS X is infinitely easier to deploy and maintain than Windows. I sincerely recommend that you seek some training from Apple and visit sites like macosxlabs.org so you can learn what you're doing wrong and stop spreading FUD by running poorly maintained facilities and blaming your failings on an extremely solid platform. At the very least, spend a little more time refining your writing skills so you can be a better troll.
Re:Pedantic Retort (Score:1, Interesting)
Wow... so Apple sold you a shitty and crippled OS (slow), and you're actually happy to pay $50 bucks (or whatever each incremental OSX upgrade costs every 6 months) for a properly working system. I though Apple was supposed to be different from MS? The Jobs reality distortion field must be extra strong for you...
Re:I am not surprised (Score:4, Interesting)
Price. Apple's archnemesis. (Score:2, Interesting)
The biggest barrier to entry for Apple's products has been cost. It's clearly stated in the article as well. There is no way to get around this fact. If you buy a Mac, you pay a premium. And you can argue all you want about how that premium buys you a more reliable and integrated system, but the fact is when 3,500 dollars buys you less than what the competition is hocking, many people are going to be turned off.
And I find three ways this could go. One, Apple tanks. With the company gone under, I can only hope that they'd fully release OS X to the open source community. Eventually, I'd hypothesize that an Intel clone would be made. With this hypothetical clone, the hardware barrier to entry would be nil. Assuming, of course, emulating Classic could be done at a decent speed. If I recall, OS X itself is highly portable - as were its NeXT predecessors.
Next solution. Apple designs a tight, Intel box. Or AMD. They use a custom design, but it is an Apple branded machine with Intel inside. This is believed to be a route Apple would never go. But, I'm all for it - if it could be done. There needs to be a vendor who can sell chips to Apple at a low enough price that Apple can reduce their own margins. Heck, sell at a loss even - and play the Microsoft.
Also, the Mac does need to be pumped as a gaming platform. This isn't as hard as it seems. Hardware wise, currently, no. But for the casual gamer to mid-performance gamer, Apple could easily sway the mindset. It just needs to put some high profile ads out like has been done for the iPod. I'm sure the iMac could fulfill the mid-range gamer's needs and it's a sleek design to boot.
Now, the third solution - games. With the release of the PS III, X-Box II, and Gamecube all on the PowerPC chipset - the market for these will become so huge that Apple's prices, by scale of economics, will drop. In which case, the barrier is removed.
In all cases, though, price is the key factor.
Or if he's stuck on IE (Score:2, Interesting)
These are a few of my favourite Mac UI things... (Score:3, Interesting)
Here are the things I notice most when making the daily switch back and forth from Windows to Macs.
1. On a Mac, when you start typing, the arrow cursor disappears, and doesn't reappear until you move the mouse. I was so used to this feature, that I really noticed its absence in Windows. I was constantly highlighting a word, typing, then having to reach over and move the arrow cursor away from what I had just typed, so that I could see if I typed it right. I watched Windows users in action, and found that they would use the mouse to place the text cursor, then instinctively move the arrow cursor out of their way.
2. With Macs, background windows are not live until after the first click. Mac people do this all the time: Highlight some text in Document A, then switch to Document B, highlight and copy some text, then switch back to Document A and paste the copied text, replacing the highlighted text. You can't do this in Windows, unless you are very very careful about clicking a non-clickable part of the window. Even then, some Windows apps lose their highlight no matter where you click. Interestingly, MS Excel works like Mac apps in this regard.
3. Navigating sub-menus. This demos best if you have your Recent Items set to a really high number. From the Apple Menu, you can pull down to Recent Items, then across and down to the item you want. Or you can go directly to the item you want, diagonally across 'open space.' The freaky part is this -- move the mouse straight up and down quickly, and the various sub-menus come and go -- or move the mouse diagonally, and quite slowly, to go directly to an item in Recent Items. Try it, and see how weirdly brilliant the Mac UI can be.
4. Single-click to get a text cursor. Double-click to highlight a word. Triple-click to highlight a line. Quadruple-click to highlight a paragraph. These shortcuts are almost universal in Mac applications. Unfortunately, recent versions of IE for Windows are so broken that you can't even highlight the text from part of one word to part of another. (This was the final straw that made me switch permanently to Firefox for Windows.)
Why all the noise about gaming? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:I am not surprised (Score:3, Interesting)
Automator.app isn't really a graphical way of writing scripts. The best way of looking at it is a graphical equivalent to pipes on the command line.
Although these sort of automation tasks can be done using AppleScript, AppleScript itself is much more versatile as you might expect.
http://www.apple.com/macosx/tiger/automator.html [apple.com]
Saying much more than that would probably be breaking my NDA. But there is probably more information to be found on the usual rumour sites.