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Graphics Software

360-Degree 3D Imaging 133

Posted by CmdrTaco from the still-waiting-for-my-holodeck dept.
CompSurfer writes "Yesterday, 3Dsolar released information about a new 3D imaging system, it works by somehow projecting onto a rotating screen. According to the story the "Prototype debuts at NVIDIA Oct. 25 in Santa Clara, California and [at] Innovact in Reims, France, October 5-7" I wonder where they are hiding the force field emitter..."
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360-Degree 3D Imaging More

360-Degree 3D Imaging

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  • In depth technical analysis (Score:5, Funny)

    by Chocolate Teapot ( 639869 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @09:18AM (#10485466) Homepage Journal
    it works by somehow projecting onto a rotating screen
    Yeah, that would do it.

  • Without glasses, and true 3D? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by temprand ( 705835 ) <nelsoni002.hawaii@rr@com> on Sunday October 10, 2004 @09:20AM (#10485477)
    I somehow have a feeling that what they are trying to do, just like every other application I have seen (projection through smoke, etc), is not going to turn out quite with either the resolution or clarity they want. I hope it works out, sign me up if it does, but I definitely have my reserve about their claims.

  • Smoke and mirrors? (Score:5, Funny)

    by goneutt ( 694223 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @09:22AM (#10485486) Journal
    I've seen a handfull of display systems that used a fog screen to project 2d images before, and a few that relied on mirrored surfaces to create a 3d illusion. Light must be reflected off of something in order to be seen. This article doesn't say how it's done, so we'll have to wait for Oct 25 to see how its actually done.

    If this uses a fog screen, will it therefore be vaporware.
    • If you've got a piece of translucent plastic, and you have two lights shined onto it, if it's spinning fast enough, and the frame rate is synchronized to the spin, you can ensure "At this exact moment in the spin plastic is passing through (X,Y,Z) space. Projecting light from laser (1 or 2) will hit it and light up that piece." Repeat to make a pattern. This would be highly inefficient, but it would work.

    • Re:Smoke and mirrors? (Score:2, Interesting)

      by rpcxdr ( 796317 )
      There are already existing technologies that create the illusion of 3D without fog, mirrors, or any moving parts. Bug Eye [bugeyetech.com] already holds a patent on a display that:
      • Uses standard LCD screens
      • Causes the illusion of 3D with no eye-ware, and
      • Can be adapted for full surround 3D

      The only way to do true holography is with (realtime [geek.com]) holograms. With everything else, you have to make some sacrifices.

      • Whats really bad is I recognized some of the gear shown on bug eye's web site. I remember that hexagonal shell display from the F-22 flight trainer sim. (open house at L3 back when I worked hell desk there)

  • I am sceptic (Score:5, Interesting)

    by uncl_bob ( 529354 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @09:26AM (#10485499) Journal
    I still remember those "super-cool" (according to the salesman) 3D-glasses with two tiny lcd-displays. After standing in line for like an hour I was allowed to try them on, and playing the coolest game there was at the time - hexen. And I still remember how worthless they were and how ripped-off I felt waiting that hour. This new thing is probably nothing like that piece of shit, but salesmen are still salesmen so I am sceptic.

    • Re:I am sceptic (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Anonymous Coward
      To feel immerseed in a 3D world using the shutter glasses you need a projection screen large enough so that the eyes field of vision doesn't see the edge of the screen, which acts as a "depth" clue to the brain that its not really 3D. Thats the reason why IMAX cinema works. If you ever look at the IMAX screen you can't see the screen boundary because its HUGE.

      On a monitor you'll see an object popping out initially. But if your brain notices the edge of the screen, you'll suddenly see it less 3D because it

  • Quick! (Score:3, Funny)

    by SynapseLapse ( 644398 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @09:27AM (#10485503)
    We need Ben Affleck to reverse engineer the process! *grumblesstupidbadmoviemessingwithphillipkdickgrum bles*

  • Porn (Score:5, Funny)

    by eSavior ( 767078 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @09:30AM (#10485514)
    For the very first time, computer users will be able to view 3D objects hovering a few inches away from a screen that rotates 360 degrees - without wearing glasses. The stand-out feature is the way users will be able to manipulate the virtual image directly with their hands as they would a real object.
    :O if prices will come down this is certainly going to make porn interesting.
    • interesting?

    • Not Really (Score:3, Funny)

      by mfh ( 56 )
      :O if prices will come down this is certainly going to make porn interesting.

      No I don't think so. The porn industry has had access to really detailed CG for some time and they still insist on shooting in some gas station attendant's parents' house. Budgets for porn films go something like:

      1. Pay the fluffers : $10
      2. Pay the light guy : $10
      3. Pay the editing costs : $10
      4. Pay the director : $20
      5. Pay the stars : $2000 each
      6. Pay the drug dealer : $20000
      7. Pay the bartender : $5000

      And that's how you make
      • Rather than have CG porn actors (which is out there, btw), it would probably be better to just film two real people going at it from all the angles you'd need to create a somewhat realistic 3d image. I'm waiting for the neural jack-in though.
      • Check out Pornomation. The closest I've *cough* heard of computer animation used with Porn.

        Pornomation [pornotopia.com]

  • Screens don't show 3D, people do (Score:5, Informative)

    by RealProgrammer ( 723725 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @09:38AM (#10485551) Homepage Journal
    The problem is getting the brain to provide the 3D image.

    3D displays using 2D devices rely on getting each eye to see something just a little different. With the old 3D glasses, for instance, one eye sees no blue, the other no red, with each image being slightly different, and the brain gets the blue from one and the red from the other. The brain converts that into a result it can handle. Don't ask me how.

    With a rotating screen, each eye would see a slightly different image. Depending on how fast the thing rotates, the brain could interpolate the results into 3D.

    Just a guess, but it's a brilliant concept if it works.
    • I remember going to a science museum when child. And I've studied a bit of holography.

      Holography stores some kind of interference pattern obtained from hitting an object with normal light and with a laser beam. The "difference" of these light patterns can be stored in 2D surfaces. All you need to display the holograph, is a light source hitting those surfaces, and voila.

      Now the *INTERESTING* thing about holographic displays, is that they replace the interference pattern imprinting process, with COMPUTER C

  • From the 3Dsolar site... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Writer ( 746272 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @09:45AM (#10485579)

    This is what is says on the 3Dsolar site [3dsolar.com]...

    3Dsolar display devices are set to revolutionize the way that people enjoy multimedia content both at work and at home. This latest innovation finally brings the dream to reality. For the very first time you will see objects flying few inches away from your screen without glasses and will be able to rotate 360 degrees around these objects.

    Since images are based on a single view, content providers will not have to deal with two complex and independent images to create the 3Dsolar effect. Free from these technological complexities, content providers will be able to re-focus on their core business and freely create and develop 3D images in no time. 3Dsolar technology is not based on the principle of autostereoscopy.

    It doesn't sound like a method of displaying images that have depth, with a different perspective for each eye. It sounds like a way of somehow projecting a 2D image that appears to be in mid air. I recall reading about this sort of thing ages ago, using some tricks with light to make images appear to hover in front of store windows using some form of projection. I think it is inaccurate to describe it as a 3D display if it can't give the perception of depth, but it still sounds like great technology.

    • Since both this article and their site give practically no information on how they create this effect, it's hard to speculate, but I would guess that if you can look at the object from different angles, it WILL appear 3D, since each eye will be getting a different view of the object.

      At first I thought they were talking about a rotating screen [inition.co.uk] that the image is projected onto [impress.co.jp], but from their description, it sounds like something else.
      • I think they are making something more like this [io2technology.com]. The Heliodisplay (helio - 3Dsolar. Coincidence, or disgruntled employees of io2 technology?) appears to be much farther along, with pictures and VIDEO (I would've posted this sooner but I wanted to save all the video before it got slashdotted) of the device on their site, as well as being able to purchase one for a cool $18K!

        They don't give much more info on how it works, but it appears to blow air upwards from the device and draw 'into' the disturbed air w

        • Re:From the 3Dsolar site... (Score:1, Interesting)

          by Anonymous Coward
          There is some info on the heliodisplay in an old article [nytimes.com] in the New Yok times:

          Pressed for more detail on the nature of the conversion, Mr. Dyner referred to it electronic and as thermodynamic. After air is drawn into the machine, he said, it ''moves through a dozen metal plates and then comes out again.'' No moving parts are involved, he added.

          He said the device works by creating a cloud of microscopic particles that make the air ''image-friendly.'' The machine, he asserted, uses no harmful gases or

    • I read about a similar product for storefronts a while back. The marketing mumbo-jumbo made it sound like the most magical thing ever. I can't find the site now, but it looks like this thing [laser-magic.com] from their descriptions.

      Basically, they were using standard projectors to project onto a transparent screen. They could do these cool things in storefronts, since they could control the POV (mostly just the one) and keep the ambient light level down (since the store was closed & the other lights off).

      I'll be ver

    • no you are right. We have a similar display at work:
      http://www.inition.co.uk/inition/product_stereovs_ volumetric.php [inition.co.uk]

      Unfortunately, It looks extremely cheesy, and a big proelm with it is if it isn't aligned it look terrible.

      I hope Solar3D's look a little better but the technology has been around for a while and is not very impressive

  • ... but how do you stop random object selection of objects by passersby who want to do shadow puppet shows?
  • Wasn't there an arcade game in the early to mid 90's that had a 3D projected image above a glass tabletop? It was some sort of fantasy game with B-rate live actors that swallowed quarters by the bucketful . . . I think it stored the images on laserdisk (like the old 80's laserdisk games), but then projected the images over some sort of tabletop like thing. As I recall, the images flickered and were hard to see . . . I don't know what kind of technology it used but it sounds similar to what's being dicussed

  • Light years beyond (Score:5, Informative)

    by StateOfTheUnion ( 762194 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @09:49AM (#10485596) Homepage
    "3Dsolar is light years beyond holography and autostereoscopy in that designers can create images that are highly detailed in color, design and animation," said Patrick Levy Rosenthal, inventor of 3Dsolar.

    Light Years Beyond . . . You would think that someone in the optics insdutry would not use the term "Light years" figuratively in a major press release . . .

  • Looking at the site, it appears that its a projector, and places the image on a special screen, ie, no screen, no image ... I've read on how one "could" do this basically using a specially designed screen that has your eyes seeing 2 different images in any one spot giving the illusion of the image being in front of the screen. But there were limitations including viewing distance.

    I get the feeling that this uses simular technology.

    I didn't read anything on the site about rotating screens, but I did see th

  • Won't This Need Tactile feedback? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by StateOfTheUnion ( 762194 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @09:53AM (#10485618) Homepage
    "Imagine a 3Dsolar screen displaying selected store products 8 inches away from the actual retail store window and offering the passerby the possibility to interact with the virtual objects."

    Without tactile feedback when interacting with virtual objects, is this really a practical thing that users would embrace? Or is "interact with virtual objects" just a euphemism for using the mouse and keyboard?

  • Old Hat (Score:3, Interesting)

    by FoboldFKY ( 785255 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @09:56AM (#10485627)
    This isn't exactly new. It sounds like this system I saw a while back. I'm sure I'm oversimplifying it, but it basically has something akin to a thin pane of glass that spins around really fast.

    What they do then is project a different image at each angle onto the glass. The images themselves are kinda like slices of a 3d volume (think volumetric textures). It spins just fast enough to fool the human eye into thinking it's seeing something hovering in midair.

    I saw a few QuickTime VR demos of one of these a while back... they showed it with some wireframe terrain and a little purple jet thing in midair, as well as showing the sugar molecule.

    Also, if I remember rightly, Nintendo had one of these puppies up a few E3s ago, with a model of that Star Fox character in it. Quite cool.

    As for manipulating it by hand, I sure hope I'm wrong about the spinning glass bit...
    • I think you're thinking of the system from Actuality [actuality-systems.com]. Or at least I was thinking of them when I saw this. ;)
    • They clearly state that they will NOT be using multiple images, and that the 3D objects will be displayed in mid-air, like outside a store window. No, I can't see how that would work, but your description doesn't fit in. By the way, here [inition.co.uk] is a link to the prduct you're talking about.
    • I saw something similar on, IIRC, Beyond 2000 (when it was still on TV in Oz, 10 years ago). It was like a large corkscrew, rather than a flat pane. A flat pane would appear to have a solid core as it spun, while the corkscrew didn't have that problem.

  • The company's website: http://www.3dsolar.com/ [3dsolar.com]

    The only way I could see this working is like those saucer discs that will show penny floating in mid air. The question is, how do you record the 3d image and project it back? 3d is a heck of a lot more information than 2d.

    It sounds like all smoke and mirrors to me. No pun intended.

    • The "penny floating in the saucer" trick used the focal point of a mirror to do the trick. One similar item I recall hearing about did the same thing, but used a projector and a vibrating mirror. As the mirror moved in and out extremely fast, it produced the image of the source (screen?) at a different point of focus; Thus producing a virtual image at a certain point.
      So can we modify this a bit by using a spinning glass disk shaped as a variable lens? This eliminates the need for the mirror to oscillate
  • ... who wonders how you create 3D images with only one 2D image? Doesn't that limit the 3D images that can be displayed or what???
    • These kind of people have been making these kinds of claims forever. You hear about seeing your 2D Photographs or Movies in Stereo Vision from time to time. It is always fun to bring up why the technology won't work to the salesmen and get them to admit that "well, it doesn't work well, to get it to work well you will need [n] images, but don't worry, we hacked OpenGL..., oh wait let me get a tech."
    • Hmm, you could do layers and store multiple images in one file, then call it a single image. For instance tiff or gerber files...
    • It's the same principle that you see the clocks with a single column of LED's (1-d) oscillating very fast to show a 2-d image of the current time. Except with this, you are projecting a 2-d image onto a rotating plane to show a 3-d image.

  • 3D Imaging? (Score:3, Funny)

    by TheRaider ( 820473 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @10:08AM (#10485686) Homepage
    Great!This help us find out who shot first, Han Solo or Greedo..

  • Solar, sun .. Helios? (Score:4, Interesting)

    by joe user jr ( 230757 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @10:09AM (#10485688)
    Noting the semantic compatibility between "solar" and "helios", could this be a development based on (or just a re-hash of) the heliosdisplay [nytimes.com] technology that's been mentioned here before [slashdot.org]? (to get the nyt article without a login, just google this [google.com] and click on the link, at least that works for me.)

    At least one blogger [dvorak.org] seems to be equating them.

    • Typo, sorry, that's "heliodisplay" (not "heliosdisplay") - while I'm here, heliodisplay works by "modifying" air (apparently electromagnetically, perhaps ionization) so that it can act as a screen onto which a 2-D image is projected.

      Heliodisplay and 3Dsolar seem to share the interactive property whereby the user's hand or pointing stick can appear to push objects around - in heliodisplay this works by laser-tracking the user's hand and simulating the results of pushing, apparently.

    • Apparently the Heliodisplay [io2technology.com] is not related to the 3DSolar stuff. It looks interesting nonetheless, but all this 3D display stuff so far has kind of a 'flying car' feel to it. Guess I'll have to see some more substantial reports to believe in it.

      • I agree about the "flying car" aspect, absolutely - the only info available on 3dsolar is a sorry piece of PR fluff. In particular there seems to be confusion about the 3D aspect. The PR claims that "the images are created using a single 2D view". Now you simply can't create 3D images from a single 2D image (if I am understanding this vagueness correctly), because you don't have the 3D information. Information does not magic itself into existence!

        But why do you say it's not related? They both project "in

    • Mod parent up. This is the only intelligent comment on the 3dsolar display. Let's have some RTFA and critical thinking here, people.

      Careful reading will show that 3dsolar is an egregious hype engine and that their display is NOT 3d, but rather a virtual display that floats in midair. As parent says, it seems very similar to the helios display in effect, although the technology may be different. I'm extremely skeptical that this is anything but conceptware.
  • They say necessity is the mother of invention, well surly coolness is the father. 3D displays are fantastic for some things, obviously not that useful for all though. I don't know if that's an actual photo on the article maybe I need to RTFA but if it is it's a lot more clear than most 3D displays I've seen. I'd be interesting to see how it stacks up in usability for medical and engineering professionals vs something like SGI's Reality Center [sgi.com] products.
    • >I don't know if that's an actual photo.

      No way,that its an actual photo.
      At siggraph this year, there was similar technology that simply rotated a computer screen very fast. This way, pixels are swept along a circular path, that enables you to do something that resembles 3D projection. It was OK, but not too convincing.
  • "Additionally, on May 14, 2004, a 3Dsolar prototype was presented to the French Minister of Research, Mr. Francois d'Aubert and former Minister of Finance, Mr. Arthuis, both of whom were very impressed with the product."

    Just the kind of endorsement that makes me want to rush out and buy one of these . . . if the two French politicians like it, then it must be a great product!

    These guys really should hire a marketing firm to clean up publicity program . . . I don't see how a minister of finance's complim

    • if the two French politicians like it, then it must be a great product!

      The greatest thing since Jerry Lewis.

    • "I don't see how a minister of finance's compliments are going to help commericialize the product."

      Check the 3dsolar website; you'll see mention of a tech/innovation prize/firm/whatever which is going to help fund these guys further. Apparently the tech demo was sufficiently impressive to get some funding directly from the say-so of two ministers of a country. Not a small feat to pull off.
  • Just imagine watching the Superbowl or some other sports on this.

    A few people already metioned porn. I didn't think of that at first, but WOW, great idea! The porn industry is always first to take up technology.*starts looking for porn DVDs*

  • Seen this before (Score:3, Funny)

    by Subm ( 79417 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @10:23AM (#10485755)


    Some guys on TV figured out a way to project the image of a pirate ship onto a fog. It was realistic enough that just about everyone believed it.

    Then a few meddling kids and their dog showed up and showed how they were doing it. The guys turned out to be criminals in masks and got mad at the kids and the dog.

    One of the kids was a stoner type, really liked the dog's snacks, and kept fighting him for them.

  • I see a bit of need to RTFA (Score:5, Insightful)

    by goneutt ( 694223 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @10:33AM (#10485795) Journal
    There are a bunch of peeps saying that the technology projects onto a peice of rotating material. Thats not what the article says.
    For the very first time, computer users will be able to view 3D objects hovering a few inches away from a screen that rotates 360 degrees - without wearing glasses
    I think this phrase is confusing people. That refers to seeing it from 360 deg around. Later in the article it says The 3Dsolar device projects the Windows or MAC desktop image into the air whereby users click on icons for manipulation. Nothing about any rotating surface. I still think there's something funny going on here, but we'll have to wait for some real photos to say how it works, not that PR junk on the site.
    • "a screen that rotates 360 degrees"

      "Nothing about any rotating surface."

      Yeah, total mystery why people think they're talking about a "rotating surface" when they mention that it uses "a screen that rotates." Where oh where do people get such crazy ideas?

  • very intersting (Score:2, Insightful)

    by floydman ( 179924 )
    But may i as why such a visually intensive project does not have any snapshots, pictures..

    Besides the babe who is trying to imagine there is a cube...
  • Back in the early 90's. It had a rotating helical screen and project a laser from below. Here's a link at PC Mag that talks about it. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,372857,00.asp [pcmag.com]
  • If this isn't complete bullshit, it's probably a combination of real image projection with some mechanism for sending a different real image to each eye.

    In order to see the image you must be looking at the projection lens, but the image will appear to be floating in midair in front of or behind the lens (can also be a mirror, as in those virtual-penny saucers someone mentioned).

    Now if you somehow oscillated or rotated the lens so that each eye sees a different real image, you'd get full-stereo 3D. And

  • If you're interested in actual 3D displays you can buy today, read my review of the existing products at:

    http://vancouver.siggraph.org/12_archive_2004-08 .h tml

    -m
  • It seems similar, or may even use some of the same technology as http://www.io2technology.com./ [www.io2technology.com]
    I wonder if in this case, the air ionizer spins instead of remaining stationary.

  • Enhanced product image gives it away (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Animats ( 122034 ) on Sunday October 10, 2004 @02:13PM (#10486961) Homepage
    The product image shown in the article [physorg.com] is very dim. But if you bring it into Photoshop, do gamma correction, scale it up by about 150%, and filter the JPEG artifacts, it looks like this. [downside.com] Now you can see what it is.

    That looks a lot like the DL-1 digital light projector [highend.com], which is a video projector on a 2-axis tilt mount. "Using the motion control feature, project your imagery anywhere in a 3D space". It's used for nightclubs and stage shows.

    It's a cute stage effect, but not a breakthrough.

  • I dont get that the editors dont research and ban this kind of baloney. The site is likely nothing more than a hideout for a money making scam.
    This is as another one notes much like www.io2technology.com, which also boasts physics defying stunts. For this to work you would have to make the very air light emitting, and on top of that be able to control the color of that light. In the future that might be possible with force fields and all, but for now it is but a ruse for the daft with money. But hey they ar
  • "Help me Obi Wan kenobi. You're my only hope"

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