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Gentoo Linux Releases 2004.3
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For God's sake, stop researching for a while and begin to think!
For God's sake, stop researching for a while and begin to think!
Just stressing.. (Score:5, Informative)
Re:I HATE YOU TOO GENTOO (Score:3, Informative)
Re:I HATE YOU TOO GENTOO (Score:1, Informative)
A different compiler though for a stage one might actually mean something
Re:Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:5, Informative)
Someone's got to say it (Score:5, Informative)
If you want to install Gentoo for the first time, you can download a bunch of precompiled packages and complete an installation in a few hours or so, probably less.
If you already have Gentoo on your system, this won't mean much since you can update the everything by with the command(s) "#emerge sync; emerge -uDp world"
This does not mean everyone with Gentoo is going to be compiling for days. You're still stuck with us for a while.
Re:Someone's got to say it (Score:5, Informative)
The -a is short for --ask. That will ask you if you really want to emerge the listed packages.
Re:Just finished installin 2004.2 (Score:5, Informative)
Upgrading... (Score:5, Informative)
Don't forget to update the
substitute $arch with your arch
# rm
# ln -s
Re:Why announce new Gentoo releases?? (Score:3, Informative)
And, of course, release notices are a form of marketing, as with all software.
Re: Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:2, Informative)
uninstall xfree
install x.org
I did it, it was easy.
Re: Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:2, Informative)
Re: Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/xorg-config.xml
Try this new flash game... It's a strange blend of Dungeon Dice and Pac-Man.
Chomp Dice [chompdice.com]
Re: Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Get them over with (Score:4, Informative)
The USE flags are pretty straight forward when looking at them in the context of a particular package. Pass the -pv ([p]retend to not install the package yet, and [v]erbose to see what USE flags the package will do) option to emerge. Say you do emerge -pv kde. You will probably see that samba support is off by default! Big issues there if you need access to Windows network shares.
If you don't get what a USE flag means, you can always do a "less
Re:Why all this hate? D: (Score:0, Informative)
Support for new hardware. (Score:2, Informative)
For those out their too timid to try a beta install CD, this might well be eagerly-awaited news.
Re:What I wish Gentoo had (Score:1, Informative)
Not just emerge -u world (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Gentoo - too much time to commit (Score:3, Informative)
I don't have to worry about security holes anymore. I have a firewall setup and I emerge -q sync and emerge -up world every night and look at it whenever there is something for me to update. And when it does update I don't have to worry about other programs not using the most up to date versions of libraries, it does it all for me.
I wouldn't run Gentoo on a slow box but it works wonders on my P4 2Ghz.
Re:I HATE YOU TOO GENTOO (Score:2, Informative)
Eh, I've used Gentoo on and off for a long time now (Well over a year and a half, mebbe two years) and I've never had a problem with using portage to keep my system running spiffer. Even if a problem did pop up I know that the forums would have much debate about it by the time I found out about it first-hand, so fixing the problem was usually a case of reading a thread or two.
Compile...? (Score:5, Informative)
But then its always a matter of choice. And if the only reason of you not using gentoo is compiling everything from source, then its the wrong reason.
Re:Sooo... (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Gentoo - too much time to commit (Score:2, Informative)
It's pretty obvious that you have never tried using gentoo.
I think that once set up, Gentoo takes much less time to maintain and run than any Distro I have ever used (Redhat 5.2-9, Fedora 1 and 2, Debian, Mandrake, Knoppix (on hard drive), slackware).
I think that this is partly because the package manager is so great (trustworthy, stable and easy to use), and partly because the software that is installed is compiled specifically for all of the other software installed.
The best part is that the work of compiling all of your programs doesn't even have to take that much time or effort. Most gentoo users update overnight, or even compile while they work, neither of which has to dominate the usage of your system. Depending on which settings you use, changing the nice value of an emerge command let's you run it in the background with relatively little side effects. (See Gentoo Wiki - Portage Niceness [gentoo-wiki.com])
And just to clear up a hole in my argument above ("once you get gentoo set up"), Setting up gentoo is easier than ever with the live CD and pre-compiled packages. You can even re-compile these packages (after the initial install) by installing their non-binary versions once you have your system up and running.
I was a Redhat user for many years, and until Fedora Core 2 failed me, and I could absolutely not get any Distro other than Gentoo to support my Treo-600 syncing, IBM T-40 Hardware, and my sd-card reader - I saw no reason to compile my software regularly. With gentoo, you don't even notice that you are compiling, except that software takes longer to install - and considering that everything I works beautifully (minus the bloat of most Distros), I save myself many lost days of troubleshooting despite compile time.
If you haven't tried Gentoo before, or not for a while. Give it a try, you probably will not go back.
Re:I HATE YOU TOO GENTOO (Score:5, Informative)
Yes. The only other thing you might want to do (though its usually not necessary) is to update the profile. [gentoo.org] After an emerge -u world, everything will be current. With gentoo version numbers mean next to nothing. New versions are usually just updates to the installer livecd itself to fix bugs and support more hardware. The packages are updated constantly, not just when new gentoo releases come out.
Re:Gentoo - too much time to commit (Score:3, Informative)
A couple of my friends and I use Gentoo as do our servers. With one central server the setup works well and keeps us all up to date with minimal compiling. From my "real world" standpoint it works very, very well. I even keep my mom's laptop up to date this way without having to physically touch the thing.
Plus, once a machine is customized, just keep your
I have to hear the cracks around here about compile times all the time... but seriously, who cares? Do you really need the latest KDE the second the ebuild is ready? Start your updates and go to bed. it's very rare that anything isn't complete by the time I get up in the morning.
It's not for everyone, but as should be stated over and over, no distro is nor should every distro be. All I'm saying is that "real world" is a very relative term and for my real world Gentoo is my choice and besides... I think it's fun. I used to be a Slackware fiend so maybe that explains my problem.
Re:Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:3, Informative)
You can set it to whatever version you want by simply relinking the
There is no real need to do this, unless portage suggests doing this AFAIK.
All packages are kept up to date by the standard emerge system, and you will always have the latest version.
And remember to etc-update or etc-dispatch after each update to make sure that you have configuration files that match your versions.
Re:Get them over with (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Get them over with (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What I wish Gentoo had (Score:3, Informative)
A good example is GAIM: which prints out a giant message that tells you not to seek help in #gaim for fear of ridicule.
For the packages that do not have instructions, then if it is a
Yeah, it can be better, but it is not horrible.
The only thing that I have had problem figuring out what to do was kismet -- but that is due to poor drivers for my card.
Re:version dependencies (Score:5, Informative)
the hard mask -- which means that the package maintainer does not deem the package to be safe at all.
the ~ mask -- which is the unstable package. You can tell the emerge system that you wish to have the unstable system, in which case it will ignore the ~ mask.
Also, there is such a thing as profiles. They have things such as the version of gcc and glibc that your system uses. If you chose the right profile, you can continue building the system with gcc 2.95. Although the packages are not well tested with it, and no one wants to specifically check and mask each package with older profiles.
Re:emergent reality (Score:2, Informative)
Re: Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:2, Informative)
If you're paranoid that it will break something, use quickpkg to make a package of your existing install first, and build a binary package of xorg using emerge -b, so you can switch back and forth until you are satisfied.
Re:Sooo... (Score:5, Informative)
What's good? The package system is transparent and extremely hackable. If you don't touch it, it works just like apt or yum. But if you want to make a change, its extremely easy to pop the ebuild in vim and change it, or fork your own version. Also very easy to produce a "package" for any specific version you like, often as simple as renaming a file.
What's bad? Initial installation takes a while (I can get a useable box in ~ 3 hours. Gnome & co take the longest). Not recommended for slow computers (anything made in the last four years ought to be fine) due to frequent code compilation. Portage moves very very fast. Lots of new versions released every week.
I run it everywhere, including this here Toshiba Tecra S-1 notebook.
Re:Sooo... (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:3, Informative)
And I believe you can circumvent that by using stage3+GRP.
Warning! (Score:5, Informative)
BTW, this is probably why you should do it per hand
gentoo and BSD (Score:3, Informative)
Links:
http://www.gentoo.org/proj/en/gentoo-alt/bsd/inde
http://dev.gentoo.org/~g2boojum/bsd.html [gentoo.org]
Re: Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Obligatory Gentoo Joke (Score:3, Informative)
That would be the
ln -sf
Amazing! (Score:5, Informative)
First off, I had submitted Slashdot an official press release which was much more verbose and gave a nice list of reasons for the release and things changed since the last release, but since the editors are a bunch of tools and don't pay attention to what they're adding to the site, it all got lost.
Anyway, for the x86 platform, the primary reason for the getting a newer release is improved hardware support. The newer LiveCD for x86 supports the new Dell EM64T machines and also has vastly improved SATA support over previous releases. This is also the first release where all of the arch teams worked very closely together throughout the entire release process. This is also our first official PPC64 release. The submitter of this story also completely missed the fact that we have a new Alpha release under /experimental, and you can also find embedded stages for arm, mips, ppc, and x86 under /experimental.
Re:Why announce new Gentoo releases?? (Score:2, Informative)
oz
Re:Can people stoping saying (Score:1, Informative)
The STABLE branch of FreeBSD, on the other hand, is production quality, is proven to be more stable than Linux, and you can build all of the newest third-party apps from source.
You don't have to be a non-source-based operating system with ancient software in order to be rock-solid stable. The BSDs proved that a very long time ago.
Re:Just finished installin 2004.2 (Score:2, Informative)
"--deep (-D)
When used in conjunction with --update, this flag forces emerge to consider the entire dependency
tree of packages, instead of checking only the immediate dependencies of the packages. As an
example, this catches updates in libraries that are not directly listed in the dependencies of a
package."
In my experience, doing a 'emerge -vuD world' is something you should only execute once in a while, and it is vital that you include the "--pretend" option in case some packages wants to downgrade others. Essentially, the "--deep" option will do a more thorough scan of portage to locate packages which are not directly affected by critical or new ebuilds, or something like that.
Re:Gentoo Hell (Score:2, Informative)
Needless to say, I'm no longer impressed with my Dell Optiplex with three NIC's in it.
If you're serious about getting your box running, I heartily recommend that you post to the Kernel and Hardware forum at the Gentoo forums site [gentoo.org] with real details of your issues.
Re:Why all this hate? D: (Score:1, Informative)
Could you please tell me what happens when you compile from source and make install fails leaving your filesystem in a rather sorry state, or the whole package refuses to run correctly, or it installs files in non standard locations?
What if you need to upgrade? How do you make sure no files from the previous install remain there possibly changing expected behavior? What about config files getting overwritten? And... what if you really need something to automate compiling using distcc or you want to use ccache? How do you handle complex tree dependencies?
Do you care to get patches that address problems in the sources? Do you need to specifically tell configure that you want samba support in every package that can support it? What if you only want samba support in ten packages, but don't want it in other five packages? Can you automate it all? What if at some point you decide you wanted some of your software using KDE support? Would you remember which packages need to be recompiled? What about compiler flags known to produce buggy results? Did you care as well?
Seriously man, you don't know how useful it is. It's not that portage is a lame attempt at fecthing/configuring/compiling sources, you know. Getting it down to "it fetches and configures the thing, I could do that myself" is just plain ignorance. It's a lot more than that, and sure, you could do that yourself, but I prefer having the maintainers decide which patches to apply and which compiler flags to use, how to invoke configure, and where should the package install its files. I also prefer having portage to fetch it for me, be it a tarball or CVS sources, figure out all dependencies, keep track of installed files and not mess with my filesystem nor config files in case something goes wrong. Still I happen to control most of the process. And guess what? In the end I just type a single line and the whole thing gets installed the way I want it, without spending my life dealing with every single package.
That pretty much makes a big fat difference for me.
Huh? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Gentoo Hell (Score:2, Informative)
ls
Each point to the correspoding scripts in
This may seem assinine, but it's reality for portage based OS's. You can't manually modify this stuff when you continue to emerge changes! Your modifications will get overwritten. That's why Gentoo had rc-update and etc-update.
It's similar to fBSD.. although I never figured out why everyone bashes Gentoo and praises fBSD (I think they're both great).
My first Gentoo install ended in a similar way. You have to approach a portage (notice I didn't say source) based distro with the assumption that it will take some time to figure out the differences.
With Gentoo, it takes awhile to get comfortable with the changes to how init works.
Re:Amazing! (Score:2, Informative)
The editors didn't change anything other than the title btw (it was Gentoo 2004.3 released).