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ZAP Smart Car Approved for Sale in the US
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It is easier to write an incorrect program than understand a correct one.
It is easier to write an incorrect program than understand a correct one.
I've owned zap stock in my life, (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Old known in Europe (Score:3, Informative)
Yeah, they've been around in the UK for five years now and they're still not that common (and I get to see both the South East's countryside and London).
That's not to say they're bad cars - they're basically two-seat Mercedes A-classes, I think, and I was impressed with the A-class when work hired me one. But I'd want more room.
Real Website (Score:3, Informative)
"Zap"??? (Score:5, Informative)
That "unaffiliated party" is Mercedes Benz (and hence ultimately, Daimler Chrysler). I wonder why they don't seem to want to market it themselves, and are relying on Zap instead. Worried about it being a flop in the US and not wanting to damage their reputation, perhaps?
Re:90 MPH???? (Score:3, Informative)
That said, parking is not a problem in one of them.
Re:Who needs this shit?? (Score:4, Informative)
roll cages with covers (Score:3, Informative)
1. SMART cars are essentially big roll cages with coverings for the hood, door, and roof. They are quite safe for the riders should there be an accident. Moreover, they are engineered to "bounce" away from an oncoming impact.
2. With the engines placed as they are, a front-end collision does not put the block in the drivers lap (and crush his legs).
3. I would much much much rather be in one of these than some crumplicious dwarf from Ford
Re:Who needs this shit?? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Other considerations (Score:3, Informative)
Crash Test (Score:2, Informative)
The Smart Car did as well as the Corsa - the occupant wouldn't have been squished, but in both cases the g-force would probably have killed them. The thing about the Smart though is the crumple zones are very small, so although the body stays rigid, there is less to absorb the force, so, unscientifically, I would imagine that the car would stop anything up to twice as quickly (half the crumple zone length...) meaning twice the G-Force, and half the chance to live.
As for looking cool - well over here in Britain I think most of us got bored quickly... especially with those people that insisted on having cow skin print Smarts
Re:Not so SMART . . . (Score:2, Informative)
Drive one myselve...
Re:90 MPH???? (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.smarttune.co.uk/tuning.htm [smarttune.co.uk]
Re:Old known in Europe (Score:3, Informative)
Mercedes is actually Mercedes-Benz, which was a part of Daimler-Benz, which merged with Chrysler corporation to make Daimler-Chrysler. So Maybach, Mercedes, Chrysler, and Dodge cars all come from the same parent corporation. (Don't ask about Ford, they're even worse.)
--Ender
Re:MSRP? Better than an Insight? (Score:3, Informative)
There are a few posts here talking about support too, saying the Honda Insight is a better purchase because of proven track record. The Insight is battery electric that needs to be completely replaced after 6 years, it also is a VERY expensive car $36,000 for what you get.
This vehicle will most likely be serviced at Mercedes or Chrysler dealerships and runs on ordinary gas.
The surprising thing is this gets as good a gas mileage as the Honda Insight 60MPH - and may be safer and better for the environment.
Re:Old known in Europe (Score:3, Informative)
Lanky geek fits, with space for warm beverage. (Score:5, Informative)
0. the cup holder is large enough for a thermally efficient coffee mug.
1. the boot area is large enough for two laptop rucksacks and an overnight bag, perfect for commuting.
2. the passenger seat can be folded flat, providing enough space to easily transport both a 22" monitor and an Extended ATX case.
3. with the iMove centrepiece, you can plug your iPod into it.
4. the soft top has a remote control.
6. this lanky geek (196cm 98k) finds it spacious - more roomy than say a Ford Mondeo (IIRC called a Galaxy over the pond).
7. it can be powered down in the tiniest of spaces
Couple of things (Score:2, Informative)
They are also designed to park "end-on" to the curb - they are the length of a normal car's width. Great for those San Fransisco hills? ;)
Only downside is there's not much room between your arm and the window. They are generally very safe, but a friend's friend (sorry) toppled one on a motorway, slid it on its side and mashed his arm nastily. I'd still get one for the city driving tho'.
Gotta chime in (Score:3, Informative)
They're superbly well made, very very quick off the mark. I grew up driving Minis (proper minis, not those funny BMW things) and this Smart is the logical progression.
On the bad side, they're noisy when you stick your foot down hard, the traction control is a bit keen in places, and the standard stereo system blows.
Other than that, I could not be happier. Please take one for a test drive before you judge!
Re:roll cages with covers (Score:2, Informative)
Re:for real ? (Score:2, Informative)
Bugatti and Krupp took the same approach. It's really very nice.
Ironically Krupp developed the concept out of a loathing for socialism, and then Bismark took it as a model for socialism, and Mussolini went on from there.
Make of that what you will.
KFG
60mpg? 90mph? Old news I'm afraid (Score:5, Informative)
This is not a troll but it would be really nice when certain parts of the world realise that having a 2.5 tonne behemoth that barely can get 5mpg is just not a smart idea.
Re:Cost? (Score:1, Informative)
Re:Call that a Smart Car...? (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Other considerations (Score:4, Informative)
Ahem.. you do realize Europe contains, for example, Germany? Where the Autobahn has no speed limits whatsoever, and the traffic flows accordingly? And the most common maximum highway speed limit in other European countries is, in my experience, 120 km/h, which is 75 mph.
Re:roll cages with covers (Score:5, Informative)
Re:90 MPH???? (Score:1, Informative)
Maybe, maybe not. The ZAP is not a 'no emission' vehicle...
Re:90 MPH???? Not so bad (Score:5, Informative)
One of the tests shown was an offset head on impact with a Mercedes S-class. Can't recall the speeds, but the combined speed was high. The front of the s-class was seriously smashed in by the smart car. The front of the smart car too was a mess BUT crucially the passenger compartment of the smart was intact and the occupants would have escaped serious injury.
However, because the passenger shell of the SMART car is so strong and stiff, some tests have shown high passenger loads due to restraints. No doubt due to the small crumple zones on the vehicle.
So I guess if you hit something in a SMART, hit something with a crumple zone that you can share!
Re:Cost? (Score:4, Informative)
Yes, I've driven one. One of my friends owns one, and I was sceptical about it when I first saw it.
After getting in, it feels very spacious, and comfortable. Quite zippy for the engine size. Everything is well laid out.
Stable on corners, good acceleration, and good braking.
Superb city drive, although I prefer my Saab 9000 for motorways and long drives, but, when in the city looking for somewhere to park, or just counting petrol costs for start/stop driving, you can bet that I'm missing that smart car.
Background information (Score:2, Informative)
When the Smart hit the market, it met initial setbacks and marketing fiascos for Mercedes when spectacular accidents occured. Smart cars would lose traction and fall over backwards due to the heavy engine being located in the back end. After the cars were given ESP (electronic stability program) as a standard feature, this effect seems to have disappeared and the Smart has become a car that especially people in bigger cities love because of the fact that you always manage to find a parking spot
I am not surprised that Mercedes Benz/Daimler Crysler does not advertise this as their car because in the U.S. their main line of cars are even more of a luxury item than they are over here in Germany. Selling a shopping cart for young people does not fit their image as a luxury car manufacturer.
Whether the Smart is able to compete with the recent trend of asian hybrid vehicles in the U.S. is another story and remains to be seen. I guess those fall into another category because they are full size cars
Re:90 MPH???? (Score:3, Informative)
Actually in the US it varies from state to state. The state's have different laws when it comes to driving/roads/etc. That's why the speed limit is different in different states. That's also why it is easy to get a driver's license in some states and harder in others.
Re:60mpg? 90mph? Old news I'm afraid (Score:3, Informative)
But I do think that Honda will sell turbodiesel-powered small cars here in the USA by 2007. Imagine a second-generation Honda Fit powered by a 1.4-liter I-4 i-CTDi turbodiesel engine getting 60+ miles per US gallon fuel efficiency! =)
Re:60mpg? 90mph? Old news I'm afraid (Score:4, Informative)
The only real innovation of the 2-door Smart is that its an efficient Petrol car (overcoming a seeming aversion to Diesel in the US market) and is much easier to drive in tight spaces.
Re:Call that a Smart Car...? (Score:3, Informative)
And although the Honda Civic EX/Type R/whatever is a decent car from a mechanical point of view, it's basically just a bland Japanese thing with zero character. If I wanted a dull car, I'd buy one perhaps. It might be fun to drive, but no-one would care.
Where the heck am I gonna do more that 120mph anyway? And horsepower doesn't matter when you weigh about 800kg. That's the whole point of any roadster vehicle.. small, light and with good handling. It's just coincidence that the fuel economy is so good (45MPG incidentally, even though I've been driving like a nutter).
The bottom line though is this - everybody likes something different. That's choice for you. :)
Re:90 MPH???? (Score:5, Informative)
it has 4 seats which makes it actually useful and it was no problem at all to go over 190 km/h on the autobahn.
that should be fast enough for most US drivers
it looks weak but drives surprisingly well, it's full with electronics to keep it stable - and it really feels like it.
60 mpg is nothing? (Score:1, Informative)
ZAP! = Pump n Dump (Score:4, Informative)
What? If you want the car, buy some shares of ZAP! ?
What kind of nonsense is that? You must work for ZAP!
So just how MANY shares of ZAP! stock should I buy to get to the top of the waiting list to get a SMART ForTwo?
ZAP! exists not to sell cars, but to pump up their stock price.
These cars are imported by a Registered Importer [gnkauto.com] and converted to US Standards for resale to US Citizens. Overseeing the import and conversion is a company named "Smart-Automobiles LLC" which has NO CONNECTION to Mercedes Benz / DaimlerChrysler.
They have to buy these things RETAIL in Europe, bring them over to the US, convert them, then ZAP! sells "dealerships" and "franchises" across the country and then the "dealer" takes his cut. No wonder the price is so high.
ZAP! exists merely to sell franchises and dealerships [zapworld.com] for a brand they do not own the rights to.
You cannot buy a Smart ForTwo from ZAP!, you can only buy a dealership.
Despite their advertising claims, ZAP! does NO CONVERSIONS, they are nothing but a bunch of marketing droids in an office trying to get people to think they are a "real" company that actually produces some sort of product.
Here is a conversation [fark.com] on FARK where a few people (including a former employee apparently) pull back the curtain on ZAP!
Here is one quote from the conversation:
MB / DaimlerChrysler plans to introduce the SMART BRAND to the US with a 2006 model that is a small SUV,built in Brazil called the ForMore, from that point they may introduce a re-designed version of the ForTwo for the US / World market.
It will be interesting to see what happens when the "real" [smart.com] SMART Brand comes to the US and whether all these ZAP! dealers get hit with a restraining order to cease advertising or dealing a Brand they do not have the rights to.
Re:roll cages with covers (Score:1, Informative)
How's that foot taste?
Re:Not so SMART . . . (Score:5, Informative)
> would be dead due to internal injuries. No amount
> of safety cages, seat belts and air bags will stop
> your guts from going splat internally when
> decelerating from 70mph to 0 in about 1 meter.
Are you sure about that?
say we start at 70mph, which is u=70*1800/(60*60)=35m/s.
Assume the deceleration is uniform, then we can say
v^2=u^2+2as,
now say that the final velocity, v, is zero, and the displacement s is 1.0m, the acceleration a works out as
a=(35**2)/(2*1.0)=612m/s^2
or about 62g
The duration of the impact will be
(70*1800/3600)/612=0.06s
Now, to judge how deadly this is, we look at some data:
http://www.vnh.org/FSManual/02/03ImpactAccelerati
Table 2.6 gives tolerable x direction accelerations of 45-85G depending on whether it is +x or -x direction with times between 0.04 and 0.1s. the earlier charts give similar information.
So even if we do come to a dead (hopefully not literally!) stop from 70mph in one metre, it is very severe, but it is in the range of accelerations that can be survived. The difference between survival and death is likely to be down to the quality of the restraint system "safety cages, seat belts and air bags".
Re:90 MPH???? (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Mass Always Wins, 6'4" Europeans (Score:3, Informative)
It depends on the type of collision.
I saw the result of a head-on between an SUV and a BMW Zx (1? 3? can't remember) about seven years ago. The BMW was so low to the ground that the SUV used it as a ramp, went airborne, flipped over, landed on its roof and killed the driver.
The driver of the BMW walked away.
Re:60mpg? 90mph? Old news I'm afraid (Score:3, Informative)
maybe i'm a rouge environmentalist (or maybe i don't fit a box) -- i think diesel technology is great. the problem is the fuel. removing sulpher from petro diesel allows catalitic converters to be used while biodiesel closes the carbon cycle -- it doesn't put any more carbon into the air than was removed from the air by the organisims that created the fuel.
traditionally, biodiesel has focused on waste oils from the food industry, waste tallow from the meat industry and food oils such as canola (AKA rape seed [yes, there are differences [canola-council.org]]) and palm oil when the prices are low. the problem is that producing enough oil to fuel even a relatively efficient country would require enormous amounts of land (the entire country of england would have to be covered in rape/canola to produce enough diesel to meet their current demand). but new ideas have emerged, placing oil producing algae at the cutting edge of bio-fuel oil production. some algae are well over 50% oil. farming these algae would drastically reduce the area needed to produce oil and could be produced using waste water from sewage, crop runoff or sea water. this paper on biodiesel from algae [unh.edu], published at the university of new hampshire, claims that the vehicle energy requirements of the US could be met by flooding 12.5 percent of the sonora desert with sea water and producing algae (the article doesn't advocate this -- production should be distributed, it's just a measurement demonstration of the possibilities).
Re:90 MPH???? (Score:1, Informative)
you're safer in a compact car than in an SUV (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Strange? No. Stupid? Yes. (Score:1, Informative)
It is only your friend in the correct places. Many cars (including some SUVs) have the problem that during side impacts especially the ductility means that driver or passenger legs are crushed and doors are deformed such that egress is not possible. In head on crashes often the engine is driven into the passenger compartment.
The Smart car, on the other hand, has cunningly designed crumple zones front and back, and an engine that folds under the seat in the event of a rear impact. (And is mounted in the rear - in most crashes the front hits the obstacle first). What gives it is survivability is the roll cage. Both of these concepts (crumple zones and strong passenger safety areas) are common on cars, but not so common on SUVs. The advantage that the Smart car is that because it is a small 2 passenger car the passenger safety area can be made very strong without being very heavy.
SMART car pictures from Europe (Score:1, Informative)