Bringing Down A Copycat Site

Nigel Cross wrote in with an interesting story from the world of software fraud. Cross writes "I found a copycat site fraudulently selling my own software and kept a record of the steps it took to bring him down."

More than just copyright violation...

[procrastitron]

I know that a lot of people are going to compare this with suprnova/etc to support their stance on copyright law. Rather than take a side right now I would just like to point out that this is not just simple copyright violation. The site in question was also committing fraud and trademark violation, both of which are separate issues in addition to the copyright violation.

Re:/. it

[procrastitron]

One of the issues that concerned the poster was that the copycat site might show up (early) on search engine results. The probability of this would greatly increase if links were posted to it by people trying to bring the site down. As such, a /.ing might have wound up increasing the damage caused by the copycat site.

MailList: Used by Spammers?

[DeionXxX]

Doesn't anyone get the feeling that MaillistKing is used by spammers? Thats why it was on a site advertising other spam software and email lists with 1mil names... and thats why the guy was hosting in Pakistan and probably knew the spam business well. Probably why he had such blatant disregard for the law and any acted like a prick?

I don't know if I want to feel sorry for a guy that sells and develops spam software. I guess there are legitimate uses for Mailing Lists, but just because there are a few people using it legitimitely (sp?)... doesn't mean it's not used to increase spam.

Other than that, this is nothing new. Have a problem, contact the ISP... wow... what a revelation.

Great job

[hexed_2050]

Awesome! Great work on taking the copycat's site down. There are way too many punks on the internet these days that will stoop to massive lows just to make a buck or two, it's pure garbage. I have many ideas always in the mix and I dare tell a couple people about them before the official release date - I've been ripped off by people before like this.

sadly, you know as well as I, it won't be long before your copycat starts up on a new hosting server and does the exact thing again.

Re:Oh, fer fsck's sake....

[Synbiosis]

Do you have any idea how much time and money it costs to sue? Sure, legal action would've fixed this mess in a jiffy, but then he'd be out thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of wasted time before it was over.

He won with a counter threat

[lodn]

To bad the hosting provider didn't take his complaint seriously. This guy can just pick the next company and start all over again.

Shouldn't he just change his business model?

[Anonymous Coward]

I've heard here [slashdot.org] that people trying to protect their IP should just give up on their quaint old ways of doing business.

Re:More than just copyright violation...

[passthecrackpipe]

so, hang on, let me get my head wrapped around this - it is somehow okay to rip off somebodies hard work ("just a simple copyright violation"), but to rip off his *logo* is somehow mean and nasty and below the belt? dude, you have some serious prioritisation issues.....

Re:MailList: Used by Spammers?

[lxt]

Maybe, but from what I can tell it doesn't actually get supplied with any email addresses - it's just a mailing list utility program (which looks pretty good, actually), with hundreds of legitimate uses.

That said, some of the tools the software provides do look like being tailored towards the bulk advertising market...but they too also have some legitimate use...

Re:MailList: Used by Spammers?

[balloonhead]

So, it's ok for KaZaA/BitTorrent/P2P as they have legitimate uses, even if they are used mostly for copyright violation, but it's not ok for this guy as it could be used for spam?

Give us a break. Can't have it both ways. The guy is just trying to make a living. If someone uses it to send spam, it's THEM that are at fault, not the writer of the software.

It's the same as guns don't kill people, people kill people.

Re:I don't really feel sorry for him at all

[drendite]

Totally dude. I mean, I can't believe Majordomo and Mailman are still being peddled. They should be the subject of much vitriol.

Re:More than just copyright violation...

[dn15]

it is somehow okay to rip off somebodies hard work ("just a simple copyright violation"), but to rip off his *logo* is somehow mean and nasty and below the belt? dude, you have some serious prioritisation issues.....

Well, in most cases people redistribute content without the right to do so and that's the end of the story. But this thread is about someone who redistributed content without rights and impersonated the creator in the process. Neither is particularly honorable, but the latter is arguably more devious.

Not far enough.

[marcushnk]

You should NOT have stopped at the pulling of your gear.
Send all the emails to the admin at the host.
Do not give this bastard an even break. He obviously will not give others a break.

"Bringing down" a copycat

[zebraman]

I'm curious, he sent some mails and ended up with a smartass reply from the copycat who promised to remove the software.

A few days later the software is up on the site again ...

How is that "Bringing down a copycat site" ????

Wheres the screenshots of a hacked and defaced Copycat website?
Wheres the sentence from the judge putting Mr Copycat behind bars?
Wheres the info about the other 5 sites that went down at the same time?

Nobody has brought down anything yet, except maybe some laughter that can be heard all the way from Pakistan.

Re:MailList: Used by Spammers?

[tvjunky]

It is possible to send Spam using an MTA of your choice and a small shell script, do you also think that there are just a few situations where a shell and an MTA might be used for legitimate purposes?

Re:More than just copyright violation...

[zakezuke]

so, hang on, let me get my head wrapped around this - it is somehow okay to rip off somebodies hard work ("just a simple copyright violation"), but to rip off his *logo* is somehow mean and nasty and below the belt? dude, you have some serious prioritisation issues....

Piracy is one thing. You are getting something for nothing. You *could* place a dollar value based on what the software would normally cost but that's about it.

To misrepresent your self as another company is a form of flat out fraud. In this case someone was getting money for someone else's work, taking credit for someone else's work, and one could argue causing them harm through this misrepresentation. After all the guy was asking for credit card numbers. Not only is there the dollar value of the software someone else profited from but the possibility of harming the character of the rightful owner. Would you do business with a fraudster? Would you use their software or reject it? Would you tell others to reject it?

I will not say piracy is OK in this reply. I will say that bootlegging is greater offence. And to misrepresent your self as being the owner of code that doesn't belong to you and use this lie to make money one would be no better than.... I don't know.... SCO.

Re:Xequte Software trolls slashdot "editor" timoth

[secretsquirel]

Bullshit or not he is getting a free ad and I'd bet that that fact did not go unnoticed by him before he decided to post it. A pretty damm good free ad to if you consider the hits/clickthroughs I'm sure it will get. There's gotta be a least a few people who still RTFA.

Re:MailList: Used by Spammers?

[balloonhead]

As I understand it, being a hitman is illegal and generally considered to be immoral. Writing software on the other hand is not.

Mailing lists are useful to:
-clubs
-websites with subscriptions
-charities
-schools
-businesses
-newsletters
-friends

and all of these are legitimate uses. I am not denying that spammers use these tools as well, but far more legitimate users use bulk mailing programs (think of the tens of thousands of clubs, websites, charities etc who use them) than spammers. Spammers may generate more email, I agree. But there are more legitimate mailing lists than spammers.

P2P, as I understand it, uses over 50% of the traffic on the internet (random source from google search) [cachelogic.com], so I think it could be said it does a lot more damage to the internet through being a bandwidth hog.

Don't get me wrong, spam is a royal pain in the arse. But the guy has done nothing wrong. And the fact that his software is a useful tool for a few spammers doesn't change the fact that most users are likely to be using it for legitimate purposes. Most spam is sent from Windows computers. Most windows computers are not used for spam. The developers of windows are not at fault for the other uses their software is used for (like running 3rd party spam apps).

What you are saying is that Microsoft should stop complaining about pirated software because they are responsible for most spam, so the sell software to exactly the sort of people who pirate their software.

Re:MailList: Used by Spammers?

[soulhuntre]

"Give us a break. Can't have it both ways. The guy is just trying to make a living. If someone uses it to send spam, it's THEM that are at fault, not the writer of the software."

Welcome to /. - it will be easier to think of it this way...

* If breaking the law helps me get free stuff (piracy) or hurts Microsoft somehow then it is not only OK, but moral.

* If breaking the law might cause me some distress (stealing my logo, sending me spam) then that is evil and bad.

Got it?

Was it smart to post this?

[tonyl]

Leaving aside the question of whether or not MK itself is a spamtool, was it really smart to post the steps that led to resolution? Nothing really forced this person to stop his actions; it was just threats with no guaranteed teeth, as the posting now explains to him. So why wouldn't he now just put the site back up, knowing that the threat was potentially empty?

Maybe the Pak site would have objected to his forged email, but maybe they don't care a bit - the article certainly makes it sound like Nigel was about to give up in frustration. Now the copycat site knows that..

Re:More than just copyright violation...

[Ilgaz]

Forget everything. Fraud etc...

People who gets tricked gives their personal details, credit card number to such an asshole.

I think developer was too polite or something. I'd do what network solutions suggest, call law department.

His problem is solved but that guy will definitely continue to do business (!) with other peoples software. Why? He didn't have cops showed up at his door.

Remember, because of Bin Laden asshole, Pakistan and USA law departments are nearly connected to each other. I liked to note it for those people who thinks Pakistan is (yes) backward country and they could do nothing about it.

Re:More than just copyright violation...

[Deanalator]

There is a difference between me allowing n users to upload a given movie from me, and trying to sell it. The point where I draw the line is when money comes into play.

Also the main point was the misrepresentation of the product. When I download a movie, I dont rename it "The Dean Movie" and mess with all the credits.

I am more than happy to give out any of the movies, music, paintings, or code that I have worked on over the years, but if someone were pretend it was thiers and sell it to make money, that is fraud.

Remember that copyright law was invented to reward innovation, and make sure everyone got what they deserved, not as a tool to lock down information markets.

A Better Strategry

[Ann Elk]

Forward a pointer to the bogus site [e-buyonline.com] to Microsoft's legal department. Notice the name? Notice the font used? Doesn't it look like it's designed to resemble Microsoft's logo? This is precisely the type of thing Microsoft Legal prosecutes with a vengeance.

Hey, just because you hate Microsoft doesn't mean you can't use them to your advantage occasionally...

Re:Step One:

[Ilgaz]

Maybe its in house beta (or final whatever) test copy?

Generate random mail addresses and test extreme conditions? Also if it works, use that screenshot to show how powerful it is.

I am not developers friend or something but I can sure imagine why since I have a coder friend coding opt-in maillist software for huge online store, tested EXACT SAME WAY.

Somehow, on this story, I felt like I am at download.com comment trollheaven.

Re:Not far enough.

[cliffski]

I couldnt agree more. That scumbag should be in some jail in pakistan rotting away for the next thirty years. Some people work really hard to create stuff, then some amoral dickhead comes and steals it. I would make damn sure I got hold of the authorities in pakistan and tracked that son of a bitch down. I know that ain't easy, but hell, this guy is probably scamming someone else right now. Maybe YOUR company is being screwed over by him.

He won?

[AtlanticCarbon]

He didn't get damages or an injunction (or the equivalent in Pakistan). If we had better international and national laws for this kind of thing he would have been compensated by the crook for the time he put in dealing with this not to mention get an injunction against this behavior if the obviously immature crook decided to change his mind.

Re: Spam Software

[Tony Hoyle]

There is in mailman too... is that suppposed to be spam software?

Sometimes mailing lists need to be anonymous.

Re:Hardly steps

[Felipe Hoffa]

Have you considered changing its name? If for most people a name like "MailList King" sounds like an evil spammer's tool (it does for me, that was my first impression) maybe it's time to change that name. You know, if you want your product to be successful, you should pay attention to marketing issues.

Fh

Re:Taking down spammers.

[boaworm]

Dude .. this guy lives in Afghanistan.

RTFA :-)

If you think the Police in Afghanistan has nothing better than chaing online fraud scammers, selling software for $1.2, you are gravely misstaken.

Re:More than just copyright violation...

[JuggleGeek]

There is a difference between me allowing n users to upload a given movie from me, and trying to sell it. The point where I draw the line is when money comes into play.

So, you'll download free software, but you draw the line at paying $2 to download pirated stuff, because you are far too honorable for that. Got it.

Either way, if the software author can't sell his software because it's being distributed (for free, or for cheap) by someone else, he ends up out of business.

Just a question

[ducomputergeek]

Yesterday there was a story about a priacy ring and people being sentance to 15 years for charging for access to pirated materials. There were a number of highly modded post about how wrong it was to sentance that guy to years in prison and a few posts about the evils of the DMCA and closed source software that always accompanies just stories.

Today we have this story where someone was selling pirated software taking credit from the creator, but because this wasn't some giant software company overwhelming there are modded responses about "way to go", "stick it to 'em", etc. etc.

My questions is what is the difference between yesterday and today? Both folks committed copyright, trademark, and fraud, but because its the work of some smaller outfit it is more of an evil than the same thing happening to "Evil giant corperations"?

Piracy is theft. Fraud is Fraud. Infrigement is Infrigement. End of story. It doesn't matter if its small guy or giant huge megacorp.

I hope that the creator(s) of this program nail this guy and take 'em to the cleaners. Its times like these that lawyers are not an evil word and lawsuits in federal court aren't either.