Defining Google 1024
pbaumgar writes "Did anyone catch the 60 Minutes piece on Google this evening? They mention their hiring process a bit in the story: 'For example, Google is hiring about 25 new people every week, and receives more than 1,000 resumes a day. But they're determined to stick to their rigorous screening process. Google uses aptitude tests, which it has even placed in technical magazines, hoping some really big brains would tackle the hardest problems. Score well on the test, and you might get a job interview. And then another and another. One recent hire had 14 interviews before getting the job - and that was in the public relations department.' As a person who recently interviewed with them this past summer (I didn't get the job), I was wondering what others' experiences were like who interview with Google. I had 4 interviews, and it was by far the longest and most interesting interviewing process I've been involved in. I'd love to hear others' experiences in their attempt to get hired."
Quick Question (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:Quick Question (Score:5, Interesting)
Do all the jobs require an appitutude test? Or just the high ranking ones?
Almost every job does. Most of the time the aptitude test is how well you are at faking the type of person the interviewer wants.
Yes, I'm bitter and cynical. That does not make me wrong.
Re:Is it just me (Score:1, Interesting)
Web translation.
Newsgroups.
Their desktop tools.
Mail.
Blogger, Picasa and Keyhole.
That's certainly a lot for a company who's main goal is internet search. They've already managed to mess up one or two of the things they've tried. For example, they aquired and consumed Deja News. The newsgroup service went from good to suck overnight.
I like Google, but like any large company that consumes all, it's only a matter of time before the core product starts to slip, a better competitor comes along - or they do something that starts to alienate users.
Re:Quick Question (Score:5, Interesting)
"We bought that new device and it's quite sophisticated and with very specialized software, and we need someone to learn how to use it. Can you do this?"
"Is the documentation available?"
"Yes."
"I can do this."
"Great, you're hired."
(yes, I could.)
Re:Long intervies processes suck (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Long intervies processes suck (Score:2, Interesting)
Innovative practices... (Score:5, Interesting)
I remember a few years ago they ran a contest to see who could come up with the best project presentation solving some big issue in search technology, and I think I remember hearing about them making the guy who won a big offer (can't remember what the project was on...I'll try to find a link in a minute).
On the other hand, we have IBM, where I start my job this month. The job is in their Business Consulting Services division, and their interviewing process was totally on the other end of the spectrum. I had two rounds of non-technical behavioral interviews, and don't believe they ever even checked my references. Go figure. I would think that IBM would have a large amount of applicants as well and that they would want to be a bit more picky about their interviewing process, but I guess I'm not going to complain because at least I'll be getting a paycheck (I went back to grad school after getting laid off...don't look a gift horse in the mouth, I guess).
i interviewed (Score:5, Interesting)
first I got the e-mail, said it would be a 3-3.5 hour interview. this is apparently normal stuff for google interviewing procedure.
so I show up about 20 minutes early dressed in business professional attire. they have a very cool lobby, lava lamps everywhere, soft sofa to sit on and read the paper, while one waits. there's an overhead display of the current searches on the website.
I met with the woman, who was a contractor, who had e-mailed me. we spoke briefly about contrator positions at google. there's a test every 6 months for who will be let on as a permanent employee and who won't.
the interview is in 3 one hour blocks, all water/soda/snacks/whatever, are on the house if offered. I opted for water. the first people I met with were two of the team members i'd be working with. we went over technical questions they ahd for me, is was a good time, all smiles and "that's good" comments. the position was more of a hardware ops type so it wasn't particularly unix admin type stuff, but we touched on that since it was more above and beyond the requirements, but below junior admin status for google. I figured I'd be ok for a hardware ops.
hour one. very positive response ended on a good note. Grade A (my metric)
the second two were the technical lead adn the supervisor of the team. very smart people, really put me in my place but in a friendly way with the admin stuff, and asked for an example of some shell code, I wrote some on the board stressing it may not be syntactically correct but it's as far as I know accurate. went well but I flopped on easy stuff like fping and reasoning for zone record trimming. another and I think a larger one was "waht do I look for in a leader" I answered in a bitter way as i'd been let down by most of my managers/directors/leaders at all palces i've worked for previously. (not too too important, but I view it as a demerit) still a positive experience. end of hour 2. Grade B
bathroom break. they were really stressing that I be comfortable throughout the process. always stating clearly if I need anything, feel free. the bathroom is very clean and they allow the luxury of paper towels in the mens room. i was pleased.
hour three were two people from another hardware group, I think NOC as they worked a 24x7 type position. one was a manager and another a technical person. at this point i think they were running out of questions. we went over some technical stuff. the difference between runlevel 0 and 6, =) other stuff of nebulous concern to hardware, I hate to toot my own horn but i'm really sharp on pc hardware and linux, so I really answered all the questions completely. after about 30 minutse we were just shootign the shix and I could see they were eager to cut it short, not due to myself but becasue they were out of things to ask. end of hour 3. Grade A
i was escorted out and i haven't heard a word since.
so evern getting the interview might be iffy. I think had I been better with the shell scripting, and perhaps less embittered by my previous employment experience i'd have been accepted.
but honestly, it's a honor just to get nominated.
I don't see what is so special here. (Score:5, Interesting)
I have not applied at Google, but here are my last two getting-hired experiences:
Current job - 9 interviews
Previous job - 12 interviews
How is that number of interviews considered unique enough to bring up in the headline? I thought this was common practice for IT shops.
The testing is a bit unusual, but if you guys wanted to even work at Wal-mart or Home Depot in the 80's you had to take a couple of tests. I even had to take a couple of lie detector and voice stress tests for minimum wage crap when a teenager.
Like Hazing (Score:5, Interesting)
got through in person interviews twice... (Score:3, Interesting)
My impression was that they value youth and brightness (as in, just out of school, being able to quickly recall or come up with stuff irrelevant to actual work) over actual experience... (but yes, this is obviously sour grapes !)
Re:Comprehensive interviews are very important. (Score:3, Interesting)
Ultimately, this won't last - The top people will soon decide that they'd rather be big fish in a smaller pond, and leave to form spin-off companies.
I've seen this happen at Microsoft many times - including one friend named Steve who left Microsoft twice to start a company of his own, only to get bought back by Microsoft each time (for ungodly sums of money).
Re:"do no evil" vs "nonprofit"? (Score:5, Interesting)
-
Like GMail and POP3. You see, 1GB webmail with text ads based on contents of email, all fine and clear. But a non-crippling POP3 that lets you avoid the ads?
I don't think there is one, I believe they put in the POP3 access for all the geeks who had requested it, most of the general population won't know what POP3 is, or care, they'll continue to use the web-based interface.Where's the catch?
I also suspect they're betting on people buying into the concept of having E-mail/storage/etc. available anywhere they can get a network connection. I know I'm still using Gmail's web interface and have no plans to change. I actually like the interface (first time I've ever said that about a web-based E-mail client) and having things centralized has proven to be quite useful for me. I'm frankly hoping they're planning to offer more things like it, maybe a calendar program. (Actually I could probably find a free one of those if I'd every remember to take the time to look.)
What are Google's chances? (Score:2, Interesting)
We all like to think that Google is different, somehow, but is it really? Or has Google become so ingrained in the way we use the internet that it cannot be destroyed, even if the company itself ceases to exist?
Hiring attempt (Score:3, Interesting)
A year ago it was horrible (Score:2, Interesting)
They asked questions requiring nothing more than memorization of man(1) pages.
They asked for my opinion and told me it was wrong.
They asked me if I knew insert techology here and when I said "no" they spent the rest of their timeslot asking questions about it.
They asked no questions which accertained logical reasoning, problem solving skills, creativity or anything else they seem to be so interested in.
The list goes on and on. By the time I was done I didn't want the job. They called me months later to ask if I'd be interested in working for them and once again I said "no."
Why did Evan Williams leave Google? (Score:1, Interesting)
Its nice that Google is hiring 25 overqualified PhDs per week, but they ain't gonna make the world go round (entrepreneurs do)!
Google's interviewing process (Score:1, Interesting)
I got called in for a first interview, which went fine, including the real-time "test" that consisted of a series of stunningly general questions and some mock Q&As -- all canned material. I got called back for a second one, which was lame. These so-called "managers" had not read up on my CV because they asked me a lot of general questions to fish for something suspicious, and then two other employees came in to talk about their jobs but asked me nothing of relevance. Go figure.
At the end of four mind-numbing hours, I was walked to the HR area where someone whipped out a small T-shirt for me, and then I was ushered back to the waiting area. I was bored out of my mind and knew I was not going to get an offer for being overqualified as a writer and for not having the "OMG I'm so privileged to work here" puppy love look in my eyes. :-)
Re:Comprehensive interviews are very important. (Score:5, Interesting)
But when that powerful original culture and vision (oh, god there are those words, but it's absolutely true) is disippated because the company is getting bigger with the wrong people, or the investors want to kick out the founders and put in "experienced management" or the company just starts to "do evil", then the exodus will happen and happen fast.
There's nothing better than being in a place and team that's "right". The minute the talented people feel that they're carrying the guy in the next cube who shouldn't be there or their idiot boss who got hired because somebody had to do the budget and reviews, they're gone because they know it can be better.
Some people's essential nature is to be entrepreneurial and to strike out on their own - of course, only a tiny percentage of them are successful. I think there's a large number of very talented people who would gladly stay in the right environment. Ask your friend sometime if they left MS because it changed, and you may be surprised.
I consider myself fortunate to have started working at Apple in 1981, when it was heaven and hell at the same time, but I wouldn't have missed it for the world. I saw a big chunk of the old-timers leave within a couple of years of the IPO because it wasn't the same, although I loved it then. And I left to a startup in the early 90's because culturally it had totally turned for me (and this, before the "bad years" of Gil Amelio and before the return of Steve). In the time since, I was both the "idiot boss" and the guy that made the world right, so I've had a chance to see that from both sides.
Re:I hate college (Score:2, Interesting)
I know those are all generalizations but I am only repeating my experiences not making a formal statement.
My interview experience (Score:1, Interesting)
When they initially contacted me, the recruiter said I should expect two or more phone interviews, each lasting up to an hour or so. My first phone screen lasted about half an hour, was all technical, and after that they wanted to bring me on site.
The on-site process consisted of about four hours of technical interviews, and a couple of hours of non-technical ones, including a tour and a couple of informal discussions with people. My interviewers were friendly, and the questions weren't as difficult as I had expected after looking at the GLAT and hearing rumours. There was only one question that I had to think hard about (and it was a cool problem!). I've actually found Microsoft interviewers to be tougher. They were longer, and their interviewers were deliberately really vague with their questions. It's a lot more stressful when you know you know how to solve the problems, but they keep being vague or changing the nature of the problem. I guess that's the point, though.
If your resume is impressive, and you're the type of person who would rather solve problems in an interview than talk about your past experience, I don't think Google's hiring process is that bad.
Re:Discarding too many people (Score:1, Interesting)
My experience (Score:5, Interesting)
One day, I got a letter/email from Google.
In it:
"We have noticed you have been quite active on the site and that your
comments have been well-written and comprehensive
Based on your postings we think you would be
an excellent addition to the researcher community."
They were offering me a job as a paid researcher. I was quite shocked because I had read that lots of people applied and were never given jobs, and I never even applied.
Apparently I was answering questions very quickly and thoroughly; one of their paid researchers noticed and recommended me.
It wasn't a very well-paying job and it was not a "high ranking one" per say, but it does qualify as a job that did not require an aptitude test.
Re:Discarding too many people (Score:5, Interesting)
By interviewing this way, you're not directly asking the candidate to solve a hard problem on the spot and, consequently, you're not making the candidate into a frazzled, nervous wreck.
Re:Discarding too many people (Score:2, Interesting)
It's a lot easier to teach real time problem solving than to teach good programming methods. The first requires a certain base talent, but from that point you can learn "the tools of the trade" (e.g. knapsack problems, induction, graphs, divide an conquer approaches) To wit, many countries hold mathematics competitions that are essentially brain teasers, and some nations (e.g. Hungary) consistently outperform the rest of the world. It's not that Hungarians are smarter, but that they have better training.
On the other hand, teaching someone to write robust, well designed, well documented, efficient, correct code -- I'm not aware of any success stories. Just look at the schools (or any program) and see whether their graduates are in fact writing better code than graduates of other programs. Unlike the example of state math education, no one has found a way to consistently produce excellent programmers. In your work place, look around for the really good coders, and see if they come from the same schools -- my experience is that they do not.
In other words, although Google may have very clever people, and they may come up with cool stuff, but as a corporation they don't have good judgement. In fact, they have horrible judgement. A good company is supposed to hire a small group of creative and erratic people to be "idea factories" and then an army of seasoned enginneers to turn the good ideas into profits. The seasoned engineers don't need to be clever -- they need good judgement and practical wisdom. Instead, Google is doing the opposite. They hired an army of tinkerers and imported a single CEO, Eric Schmidt, to have *someone* in the company with business sense. Schmidt provided Google with the revenue stream that they are currently enjoying, without solving a single brain teaser in the process. But instead of learning from this, they're squandering the revenue on building a trophy case of more tinkerers, while actual companies have already caught up to them in search engine quality -- Google is running on reputation now and they aren't going to be around much longer.
Had a few interviews.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Innovative practices... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:This is a new trend (Score:3, Interesting)
seriously, wtf is google doing with all these people? 25 persons per week? something like google toolbar *shouldn't* take more than 25 persons working on it anyhow.
recruting for recruitings sake - the hr/other recruting guys must earn their pay you know to justify their existance.
This is why.. (Score:2, Interesting)
Hi, everyone. I've been a lurker on these boards for a long time now, but just wanted to state this. I've wanted to be a programmer all my life, and have worked on projects on the side ever since I bought my first computer about 10 years ago. I consider myself talented.
Anyways, this is probably the #1 reason I have decided to get a degree in something else (nursing maybe). This trend in interviewing is just plain rediculous and leaves one not caring about the job. There is only so much BS you can get spoon fed before revulsion kicks in...
Re:The Apprentice (Score:3, Interesting)
Many, many interviews (Score:5, Interesting)
If you come in and wish to interview only for the advertised position, you might be missing out on an opportunity in an area you really want to work in or would excel at (being a new, unpublicized area, you might be brilliant at it and love it, but not be aware it even exists), and so oftentimes the company puts you through interviews (in this case, ump-teen interviews), so that people in each of those areas have an opportunity to speak-up on your behalf and say, "you know, I could really use him/her here, but the position we have open hasn't been advertised." Putting you in an area that you are likely to love is worth the time "wasted" because you are more likely to be productive.
Perhaps it isn't this way at all companies, but interviewing many-times (seemingly "rigorous") is simply a placement issue, not a torture or publicity one.
Also, the tests oftentimes aren't about the right answer, but your reaction to being placed outside your comfort zone for a moment, and how well you respond. Perhaps Google is doing it for torture purposes (I am not so sure of that, though), but the "extreme interview processes" often have other purposes than the initially-perceived ones. I am speaking about other companies here, not necessarily exclusively about Google.
Re:Comprehensive interviews are very important. (Score:5, Interesting)
A company filled with 'A' players will win every time.
Having all 'A' players is not necessarily the path to success.
There's no reason to own the secretaries (Kelly), Security (Pinkerton), Janitorial (Blackburn), AP/AR (EDS [cringe]), Procurement (Ariba [cringe again]) or Payroll (APS), but try to keep 'A' players around who have to interface with these, ahem, organizations, and you'll either be pumping your 'A' players full of SSRIs or you'll be looking for new ones every sixteen months. (Or both!)
In fact some of the most profitable companies in the world (can we say big pharma anyone?) manage to keep very few 'A' players around for just such reasons. (buy me a beer and I'll elaborate)
Re:IBM isn't entirely stupid (Score:3, Interesting)
I also think it's funny that the 60 minutes seemed to contrast the Google environment from "Big evil microsoft", but Microsoft WAS google 15-20 years ago...remember how that was an enviable place to work with the free soda and the "everyone gets an office"? At the rate Google is hiring, and now that they are public their corporate climate will end up HAVING to change. Right now they can still have fun, but when their non-voting, non-dividend paying stock begins to crash (its currently at what, a 150 P/E?), they will begin to act like every other corporation.
University degrees; Overrated (Score:3, Interesting)
To be honest, I was expecting to get an upper second and was extremely damn surprised to get the first (because they don't give out details on marks, I've still no idea how the fuck they got a first from them).
Here's the crunch. I'm *not* a 'First Class' student; I'm a decent "Upper Second" at best, but I didn't cheat (or, if you think I did, then I'd point out that 90% of the class probably cheated more than me, so go figure).
How did I get a First? I don't know, but I strongly suspect that putting the extra effort into a written essay on data ethics (that ended up counting towards a small but notable percentage of the year) made the difference. I know that many people didn't put that much effort into it, but spent ages on things that didn't matter half as much.
Point is, I'm fairly mediocre when it comes to computer skills, I spent more time studying crap than I did doing actual computer stuff and preparing for a job; yeah, my essay writing is okay, but the whole experience has left me very sceptical about what a degree means.
I didn't "abuse" the system, but I certainly played along with it for all that it was worth, because I wanted a decent chance of getting a First Class. I knew that wasn't everything, but I suspected it would mean more than it did.
I could bore you with this all day, but I can't be arsed typing that much; point is that a degree teaches you stuff, but it's not the same as the real world, it's overrated, and in spite of their efforts, it doesn't really teach you the practical stuff you need for a job as much as some people would like you to believe.
I thought it was ironic that one of my lecturers asked me if I was going to be doing a PhD. The BSc drained me of the enthusiasm I would have needed to even *consider* doing a PhD. There's no way in hell I want to see the inside of a university for a long time to come.
Google and Others (Score:5, Interesting)
Back in August, on a Tuesday (you'll see the days matter in a second) I did a phone interview with a hiring manager; I did well enough that toward the end of the interview she asked me when I could come in; I said Thursday would be earliest (I was unemployed). After shouting over to some people, Thursday turned out to be OK. Lets call this Day 0
Day 0+2: I came in on Thursday and was interviewed for about three hours. Four teams, two singletons and two pairs. Oh, and I hate pair interviews. I remember distinctly that I managed to establish an amazing rapport with the hiring manager fairly early on and had an interview that left me feeling like a million bucks (this is probably the only interview where I've ever said, in response to a salary question, "you can't pay me what I'm worth" and meant it
Day 0+3: On Friday, I was contacted by another company and told they wanted to bring me in. We arranged the interview to occur Tuesday (so a week after the first phone interview).
Day 0+4: Company A calls me and wants to hire me. I tell them I've got to check out Company B and we negotiate to have me give them an answer by Thursday (0+9, or 5 days hence). Due to the sensitivity of the project, I agree to come in for a meeting at work on Wednesday (0+8) so I can be up to speed if I take the job (this also let me see what kind of work environment they've got).
Day 0+7: I interview at company B. Process is also about three hours. They're aware of my situation, and so the last person to talk to me is the hiring manager, with an offer in hand. I tell him I'll let them know by Thursday.
Day 0+8: I come in for a meeting at company A and fall in love with the company culture -- remember, this isn't "let's tell the interviewee what the culture's like," but rather a real business meeting I'm attending, so it allows me the sort of inside intelligence that's often lacking in our decisions. It also allows me to see that, e.g., everyone dislikes the company-provided laptops, which allows me to
Day 0+9: I call company B and politely decline, I call company A to enthusiastically accept and negotiate a better laptop (the 'negotiation' process wasn't exactly lengthy -- "I'd like a laptop, but your standards suck. What can we do about this?" "Yeah, we're not happy with the standard. Can you work with the IT Director to come up with something better?").
As for the Google process
The face-to-face happened about 15 days later. It was about 3-3.5 hours (fairly standardized for Google, apparently). I was lucky enough (ref internal referral) to eat at the Google cafeteria ahead of time, which definitely rocked.
_That_ interview process was
I think it's natural, really -- Google goes through so many of these interviews that the first step is by necessity an emotionally disengaged "show us you're worthy of breathing Google Air[tm]" process. One of the things missing from the interview, for example, was any sort of discussion of the Google side of things, or what the job or work relationships or technology are like.
I left the interview drained. I'm actually pretty pleased with my performance -- I'd probably want to change two or three things, but overall I'd say I probably performed at about 85% or better of my optimal capacity.
About ten days later I got a phone call fr
Re:I hate college (Score:4, Interesting)
A college student* shouldn't be looking for the kind of job that requires a degree. You probably can't handle both school and a job of that sort at the same time, and even if you manage to get by at it, it'll suck. You'll hate it, and your boss and profs won't like it much either.
Instead college students should look for jobs that don't expect you to focus your mental energies on them, the kind you can completely forget about when you're in class or studying for an exam. College jobs are for A) money and B) work experience (i.e. showing up, following instructions, etc.) not to be confused with job experience (i.e. x years of Java.NET). If you can get it in an organization that does work in you intended field, all the better, but that's gravy.
*Unless you're a current student looking for a job for after graduation, in which case you will have the degree, so the complaint is moot.
14 Interviews - thats an eye opener (Score:2, Interesting)
I'll tell you what they're doing! (Score:3, Interesting)
It's not NEARLY as easy to let people go as it is to hire them, and the only product the general public is even remotely interested in is the search engine. Desktop Search? WTF? Do they realize that most professionals in the office environment I've serviced can easily fit all their documents (sans-pictures) on a few floppy disks? Where's the market for this Desktop Search when most people either a) produce little to no digital output, or b) already know how to use folders and organize their work?
The Google folks should be focusing on small, judicious changes to their flagship product (www.google.com), and just rake in the billions like they were before the IPO.
Maark my words: The IPO will be remembered as the day Google lost focus and started the change to bleeding money.
Next day visit IS one of the test questions. (Score:2, Interesting)
question is most likely part of the HR interview process.
It checks to see if you are willing to change plans in order to stay the extra day.
Sure Google did all the flight arrangments for you,
but you could skip that flight or call the airline and reschedule it yourself.
Consider it a real world, real time thinking on your feet test.
It's part of the weeding out process.
After all, if they give you the job, your going to have to come back the next day, and the next day,
and do some more flying and moving, just to work with them.
The come back the next day question also could be a loyalty check - it tests your motivation.
Anyone hungry enough and serious enough to go above and beyond the scheduled visit,
at their own expense - really wants to stay and work there.
The situation gives you the opportunity to show that you are flexible and in control of your life & situation.
If you Really want the job at a company,
Next time simply say 'What time is good for you?'
and work out the flight/hotel details yourself,
without distracting the interviewer away from their positive impression of you.
It is better to show your cool, calm, and collected skills to the interviewer.
You can impress them with your sincerity and with the strength of your motivation.
Re:I hate college (Score:2, Interesting)
I would also like to add that often people with degrees have had access to sources of information (professors, libraries, contacts, etc) that may be hard to get or at least less likely to be considered than someone without a degree. In the case of Google, it appears that they are claiming to be looking for bright people who not only can come up with ideas but come up with good ideas and be able to back them up to present them, which often requires research skills (which I imagine to be rarely cultivated outsite of acadamia and used less frequently).
From personal experience, I learned to program on my own outside of school (which I think many readers here have probably done). I took a few programming classes while in school which I felt like I really didn't gain any more learning from than I would have on my own (honestly less in some cases because they required too much time for me to focus on learning new things). So although I didn't feel like my degree enhanced my programming much, it gave me credability. It also gave me confidence that I was at least on level with my peers, which is honestly worth a lot. And most importantly to me it gave me exposure to various professors with all different styles and personalities all trying to get totally different types of things from me. So I learned how to interact better, more quickly, and adjust faster to new situations.
The school I was in included many hands-on projects with outside companies and group projects which allowed us to make mistakes and try new approached to problems without worries of loosing a job, while getting feedback at various steps of why things were or were not working. It was sorta like an open test-bed to various issues and ideas.
When Genius Failed (Score:5, Interesting)
The basic story is of a hedge fund [wikipedia.org] in the mid to late 1990's, and its dramatic rise and spectacular failure. The fund hired only the best of the best, and amongst its cadre of partners were 2 Nobel prize winners for economics. These people were bright. Their prime failing came down to two points.
Whilst on the topic of finance, long interviews here are no exception. I recently applied for an internship at a certain bank. The application process was completed on-line. After about 10 pages of copying from my resume and short essays, I clicked submit -- only to find out that I was now ready to complete the on-line math and communication skills tests. These took about an hour each, and were graded instantly. I made it past the first stage. If I do progress further, I am expecting a few days of interviews, as this is the norm even for internship positions.
Re:I hate college (Score:3, Interesting)
Companies that require bachelors degrees don't bother me. But companies that requires bachelors degrees from a top 10 College with a 3.75 GPA do.
Like Brave New World (Score:3, Interesting)
Is Google going to run into the same problem? Don't they need some "drones" who are just solid workers instead of super-geniuses? Who will get the work done while all the geniuses battle over the cool new projects (and skunks works)?
I sense Google going in the direction of the early 90s Apple (not a good thing).
cr
Re:This is a new trend (Score:2, Interesting)
The thoughts are 1) make sure the managers have at least met with the new hire and 2) record impressions and facts from a spectrum of people within the company both managers and co-workers.
The results have been pretty good.
Re:Comprehensive interviews are very important. (Score:1, Interesting)
I pity the fool who attempts to learn something from Slashdot.
Re:Long intervies processes suck (Score:3, Interesting)
It's something plenty of employers will fire you for, even when they're not unhappy with your performance.
What a complex world we live in! Is it worth it? (Score:4, Interesting)
Should we really be anxious because we went for interview at Google and someone asked us to solve a puzzle that we couldn't? does that make us less worthy of living a good life than those that have answered that question? should we be judged for the environment that we were brought up (and that we did not have a choice about, but it really shaped us)?
One would say that it is social darwinism that causes progress. But what is progress? is it only technological? how about social progress? spiritual progress? emotional progress? how about balance? how can one keep balance inside with such a competitive environment haunting him/her? What about the stress this environment creates? how will these people, that are such heavy competition, so much stress, be relaxed to create and raise a family? low birthrate is a significant problem for the western countries, and people working in such a heavily competitive environment are too stressed out to think of creating a family.
Do we, as people, still enjoy the sunset? do we still dream about the magic moment when we hold hands with our dearest under a full moon on a beach, or our minds is on profit-profit-profit only?
There are thousands of questions that are far more important than those silly Google puzzles. I couldn't care less if there are 5 or 100 C++ cast types. Life has much more important issues.
It is a great disappoinment when our society's only purpose is to gain more profit. It means we have failed as a society. We've lost our touch with what makes us humans...one day, when AI will be an everyday reality, what will become of all these clever people Google have hired? they will starve to death, along with all the millions of poor people working at McDonalds, because the Google of that era will not need them!
It is also a great disappoinment when our society continues to use sub-optimal tools to do a job, and all the brains are just used to create more profit, where they could have been used to improve and optimize the tools we work on.
If you now think I am bitter because Google rejected me, let me tell you that I don't live in USA, and I am employed, and very much respected, admired and even envied in my job. After all these years working in a corporate environment, I really haven't figured out the 'why' behind all we do: we spend so much time trying to develop new weapons, so much time trying to outrun and outsmart our competitors, so much time trying to cover our wrong-doings...but we have failed miserably to be warm, sincere and offer a big smile to others from inside our hearts on a day-by-day basis! we have failed in LOVE...
(I apologise for the bitterness and the long post.)
Re:Long intervies processes suck (Score:3, Interesting)
An Axiom of Hiring (Score:2, Interesting)
1) Smart and Lazy (the worker wont get alot done but also wont cause any serious trouble).
2) Smart and Productive (these are the people you want -- and it might take nine interviews to find them).
3) Stupid and Lazy (again, no real problem except a drain on your bottom line).
4) Stupid and Productive (this is the worst person to hire -- they work tirelessly to destroy your company).
Re:Quick Question (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:final test (Score:2, Interesting)
Exception maybe the patent office. By the type of patents they approve, I wonder if they're all high on drug.
Re:Quick Question (Score:4, Interesting)
Andrew
Re:Discarding too many people (Score:3, Interesting)
It's a lot easier to teach real time problem solving than to teach good programming methods
Or, maybe it is really easy to teach good coding, and all schools do it? If all schools produce students with equal coding ability, the logical conclusion is that it is straightforward to teach coding. On the problem solving side, Hungarians are smarter. They also have better training, of course.
In other words, although Google may have very clever people, and they may come up with cool stuff, but as a corporation they don't have good judgement. In fact, they have horrible judgement. A good company is supposed to hire a small group of creative and erratic people to be "idea factories" and then an army of seasoned enginneers to turn the good ideas into profits. The seasoned engineers don't need to be clever -- they need good judgement and practical wisdom. Instead, Google is doing the opposite. They hired an army of tinkerers and imported a single CEO, Eric Schmidt, to have *someone* in the company with business sense. Schmidt provided Google with the revenue stream that they are currently enjoying, without solving a single brain teaser in the process. But instead of learning from this, they're squandering the revenue on building a trophy case of more tinkerers, while actual companies have already caught up to them in search engine quality -- Google is running on reputation now and they aren't going to be around much longer.
So because google doesn't follow standard business models, they have horrible judgement? Considering that they are doing pretty well in the market right now, wouldnt the obvious conclusion be that all those smart people saw a better business model?
So, lets see:
Slavish devotion to Standard Business Practices - check
Consistently flawed logic - check
Resistance to change - check
Let me guess - you are a business major?
companies that prize PhDs (Score:3, Interesting)
I constantly read debates whether companies should hire PhDs because (1) they are too stuck up to perform more routine tasks, (2) ask for too much money, etc. However I notice the real money engines- MicroSoft in the 1980s/1990s and Google in the 2000s- did seem to accumulate alot of them. There didnt seem to be the usual prejudiuce for or against a PhD. If your degree work or business experience demonstrated great intelligence and creativity- they want ed you, whether you were "over" or "under" educated.
Re:I hate college - university and autonomy (Score:4, Interesting)
While many people without college degrees can do organize their own work as well, they only pick it up over time. Many skilled trades such as plumbers and mechanics don't require that you prioritize work; most tradesmen just do one job (fix that sink, install that furnace), then move on to the next one. Even if they work without direct supervision, their priorities are short term and usually set by someone else - ie, go fix the sinks at these four addresses today.
That reality hit one of the managers in my area. He originally managed only IT people, but recently inherited a customer service call group as well. While he adjusted to it, one of the differences was that he couldn't just tell the customer service employees to do something. He had to tell them to do it, make sure they understood what they were told, and then have someone check up that they're in fact doing what you told them.
So, along with that tolerance for bullshit comes the motivation to deal with it without someone looking over your shoulder all the time.
Re:I hate college (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't have a degree. Therefore I have to publish.
That's all there is to it.
I've been looking for serious work for 10 years now. If the town I finally moved away from out of shear luck actually had a university program, I might have a degree by now. I've been stuck working bottom-end jobs and low-pay high-pressure jobs for that entire period. I also almost completed an arts diploma as at least the local college had that. Now if I could get enough work to actually afford to finish it I might have a chance.
*gleah*
I'd still like that CS/math degree too. I enjoyed CS/math a lot more than most of the arts (English primarily) program. All I can figure is my presentation skills are so incredibly poor noone will look at me twice.
Re:Quick Question (Score:2, Interesting)
Virtual guages and logging of data, sometimes with alarming. Basically a GUI for a plant-floor, or a chemical plant, or a water treatment facility, etc.
Largish commercial market, but there's not a lot to know, although I don't understand why so few people actually grok it who are involved in it.
I used to work for Rockwell Software, as an apps engineer on their RSView32 HMI development and runtime engine. You could do a lot of nice stuff with it, but it was obvious most people hae no idea how to make a useful UI.