Can Microsoft Beat Google? 603
An anonymous reader writes "With all the hype surrounding the recent release of MSN Search, are the search engine wars heating up? There's an interesting article that states, "As the veteran Microsoft enters the already flooded search engine industry, and Google still being fresh and refreshing to most people, it begs the question: can the old supplant the new?""
Of course (Score:3, Insightful)
And just like Microsoft beat Sony in the game box market.
Marketing is the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
Too Late (Score:5, Insightful)
People will never say, "don't ask me, Microsoft it."
It might if you keep advertizing it ever y day (Score:5, Insightful)
As for overtaking, I don't think it will. They just aren't adding enough new value to make it worth breaking a 5 year long habit of typing google.com
Drawing Parallels (Score:5, Insightful)
IE didn't win the browser war as much as Netscape lost the browser war.
Simply put, Netscape sat on their laurels and watched as Microsoft yanked the rug out from under them. Yes, there was underhandedness involved, but at root, Netscape shoulders most of the blame for having lost the browser war.
Thus far, I don't see any indication that Google is going to repeat Netscape's mistakes. Google continues to run a service that is fast, reliable, and modern. They're aggressively broadening their service base, they've attained the pinnacle of name recognition, and they're not showing any signs of letting up.
Whatever comes, this will not be a simple rehash of Netscape vs. IE.
I'll probably still use google. (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Well (Score:4, Insightful)
Surely whoever beats Google is likely to have more power and information (or gain it later) than Google themselves? That would really solve your problem.
Evolution... (Score:3, Insightful)
Google has a head-start, and are presently unencumbered by the bonehead marketers that have ensured that Microsoft produces such sloppy software.
In order to out-take Google, Microsoft would have to adopt it's strictly logical, scientific modus operandi.
uh .. (Score:3, Insightful)
MSN frontpage: umbteen kilobytes of clutter, flash, and totally irrelevant BS.
guess which one im gonna pull up for a simple web search.
Re:Of course (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft has only released one console. Sony has released the original PSX, the PS2, the PSone and soon the PSP.
Therefore I would say Microsoft released one console that did fairy well, but you have to wait until you see the XBox 2 and other developments before you judge success. The fact that Nintendo are weakened shows that success is determined by longevity not the success of any one given product.
Re:Too Late (Score:4, Insightful)
Google is now a verb meaning "to search" (Score:2, Insightful)
Put that in your pipe and Swiff(tm) it.
Google only stands one chance (Score:3, Insightful)
limited to a year or two at best. They have to get
as much stuff on the desktop as they can because MS will integrate their search into the OS. They have got to push firefox now, they need to find a way to own a spot on everbodies desktop and right now firefox is the way to do that.
The old does not have to supplant the new (Score:5, Insightful)
Untrue. (Score:5, Insightful)
Not true. Marketing is everything these days. Why is Britney Spears popular? Quality product? hehe...
Marketing will get them their users, but users that don't know any better. For the tech crowd, yes, Microsoft will have to come up with a better product, though I find that just as amusing as Britney Spears selling records.
Mr. Softee can't get it up... (Score:2, Insightful)
#1) Google has been branded into people's consciousness as THE way to search the net. While the landscape of search engines is littered with now fallen former champs ala altavista, Google has a ton of momentum behind it as a brand.
As long as they continue to innovate and return the most relevant results, it is very unlikely MSN search will achieve much penetration of this market. Why would people switch otherwise?
#2) M$ has rarely been an innovator in ANYTHING. In the world of search engines, being one step behind just isn't going to cut it. Google has consistently shown themselves to have a bold, creative overall vision. M$ has always lacked one and still does.
#3) Google is now flush with cash after a very successful IPO. Earnings are going gangbusters and look like they will do so for the forseeable future. They are going to be in a financial position to execute on their game plan. M$ may also have a cash hoarde, but Google's stock price and cash give them the tools necessary to challenge M$ on their own turf if so desired.
Momentum is a powerful force, look at Ebay's domination of the auction market. As long as Google continues to lead, and M$ flails along behind, Mr. Softee will remain flaccid in the search engine market.
They already are using it... (Score:5, Insightful)
They are using their own search with their own advertising system to monetize that advantage. They don't have to be better than Google for that to work, just not completely suck donkeys.
Re:Marketing is the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
They didn't become the world's biggest software company by simply having the best quality product.
Alternative viewpoint. (Score:5, Insightful)
That's one way of looking at it. Another way of looking at it would be that Google is trying to do too much, too fast. What in the world does trying to be a domain registrar have to do with increasing their search capabilities? Plus, Google's research into search AI is not at the level of Microsoft's. (Never, ever underestimate the power of Microsoft Research.) There are some indications that Google may indeed "sit on their laurels" and let Microsoft pass them by.
You have to realize that Microsoft is a very big, very powerful company with an enormous R&D department and a gigantic marketing machine. Google has won both market share and mind share, but both can be taken. Microsoft is in a position to do it. One underestimates at one's own risk.
Re:Untrue. (Score:5, Insightful)
Precedents... (Score:5, Insightful)
How did MS's IE beat Netscape? By integrating IE it into Windows. Don't you think that the MS plans to make this search technology 'hard wired' into future (or even current) Windows releases to circumvent users's access or choice in using Google?
Netscape also had some serious quality control issues which was the final nail into its coffin. I suspect, however, that Google is in a much better position to compete than Netscape ever was. But, they're going to have a serious fight on their hands--it's not about quality, it's all about quantity to Microsoft. The more drones out there who start using MS's search engines because the next Windows iteration pushes Google aside will start to erode at Google's profitability and they will play a long hard war of attrition.
Re:Too Late (Score:2, Insightful)
Microsoft has to, gulp, innovate to win (Score:5, Insightful)
2) The domain problem. For those few who do not have a Google bookmark (or have a built-in window a la Safari and Firefox), they can likely type "google.com" into their browser faster than...(they're already typing in their query). "search.msn.com" is just, for lack of a better word, ugly.
Innovation: Microsoft should buy a simple domain as a home for their search. Which brings us to...
3) The branding problem. For a company has huge and rich as Microsoft, they are strangely conservative about protecting the amazingly well-entrenched brand "Windows" (whether that's a valid trademark is an other issue). It's almost as if Microsoft has given up on branding and just "wings it" (Windows Movie Maker? Windows Media 9?). Face it, just adding "Windows" or "Microsoft" or "msn" (ooh, that rolls of the tongue) breaks all the rules of branding. Google is a verb because it is fanciful.
it's not a zero-sum game anymore... (Score:2, Insightful)
That's why it's not the same as the browser wars: people do not use two browsers simultaneously. But they can easily use two search engines in two different windows.
Re:Drawing Parallels (Score:5, Insightful)
Exactly. Let us not forget that a very large number of geeks actually moved from Netscape to IE not because it came bundled but because IE 3 (or 4, I can't remember) was actually better than Netscape 4.
I moved from IE to Firefox for the same reason.
Microsoft need one more little change (Score:2, Insightful)
I don't want to load a web portal or a news website, I just want a search box with a "go" button.
Microsoft needs to register www.microsearch.com or something and put a minimalist, google style interface up there.
Re:uh .. (Score:2, Insightful)
Google and search.msn are pretty much the same size. But you make a good point, most people are as stupid as you, and will go to msn.com instead of the proper page. I too was unaware that search.msn.com even existed. But google.com is so much easier to type.
Second, I think your choice of the word "stupid" was quite abusive. A much better word would be "uninformed".
Re:This has been asked before. (Score:1, Insightful)
When MSN search becomes part of Windows (Score:3, Insightful)
Who wins? (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Of course (Score:2, Insightful)
Of course, its no small undertaking to create your own distro of Linux...
This is not a desktop application (Score:5, Insightful)
A perfect example of this is Intuit. They've managed to keep Microsoft at bay despite fierce competition. Those flames were fanned when an acquisition of Intuit fell through therefore strengthening Microsoft's resolve.
Nevertheless Intuit is still with unlike lots of MS road kill that comes to mind.
This question to some degree seems pointless. It assumes that somehow Microsoft's desktop monopoly will mean that people will stop using a web application (search) with a brand that has become incredibly powerful.
This seems like a variation on all the claims that Apple was on its death bed eight years ago. In fact I remember seeing NBC News running a story that seemed to echo this industry consensus.
And despite Microsoft's desktop domination, it seems most Microsoft employees (much to the chagrin of MS management) are opting to patronize Apple with its latest creation, the iPod. The story in Wired was featured in Slashdot just recently.
Google is incredibly entrenched in people's minds. It has become a powerful brand. Evidence of this is the fact that people readily use its name as a verb.
Microsoft setting its search engine as the default for whatever future browser they release will *not* cause people to stop using Google.
-M
"They can't bundle it with their OS" (Score:5, Insightful)
Also, I personally think that they don't really want to be in the search engine market - they just don't want to risk Google's brand becoming predominant over theirs...
Re:It might if you keep advertizing it ever y day (Score:5, Insightful)
Microsofts engine will have to be phenominally good in order to get people to switch. Google (and Altavista in an earlier stage) could beat the competition by having a really simple and quick-loading interface, along with a good, attractive format to display results in. They could have beaten the competition even if their search results were on par with competing systems (they were better). It will be quite hard to beat Google on either the user experience or search engine.
Here's one of those nice little features of Google: try searching for "5 cc to cubic inches". Google gives you the answer right away... and it also works for converting, say, furlongs to lightyears.
Re:Untrue. (Score:5, Insightful)
As for tech crowd dictating what's good and what isn't, lets think about this, shall we?
1. Beta vs VHS?
2. Original Mac vis IBM PC/XT/AT?
3. Wagons/Hatchbacks vs SUVs? (same storage capacity, better fuel economy)
4.
5. Extended warranties from Best Buy?!?!
Marketing is for the suckers...and that's where the money is.
Re:Too Late (Score:5, Insightful)
Hey buddy, shut your heretical mouth and pass me a kleenex.
As very good as Google is... (Score:1, Insightful)
If it put a small header at the top with things it thought were "catagories" as suggestions to refine your search, that wouldn't suck. (I'm aware of how easy that is to say, and how difficult it is to do quickly and well)
If they had a simple option to filter blog comments out for all the blog software, or better yet collect them, display them as an option like they suggest for misspellings...
On the other hand, if MSN starts to show a marked increase in the usefulness of their hits, adding handy features I can't guess at, or next gen technologies such as humming that tune, or sketching a picture, word of mouth will spread pretty quick, and google will take it on the chin. Big ifs, but in the realm of possible.
Despite the contemporary views of Slashdoters, I'm fairly certain Google has a healthy respect for Microsoft Research, as well as the giant's budget. With the well documented smoking corpses of former companies providing a compelling warning about the pitfalls of complacency.
Re:it begs the question (Score:2, Insightful)
Name recognition? (Score:2, Insightful)
Simply because I strongly dislike Microsoft (and thus everything associated with them), I will continue to use Google.
Microsoft would have to seriously surpass Google in order for me to switch, and I suspect the same goes for many others.
Too many people are forgetting (Score:3, Insightful)
The majority of computer users know of no reason why they should hate Microsoft, when you consider how many people still don't even know what spy/mal/parasiteware is, or the amount of people who don't know what a firewall is or have an up to date virus checker etc.
People are quite happy to use whatever tool is first there (why else would they download so many spyware toolbars?), many millions of people in this world have MSN as their homepage either because they don't know how to change it or they actually use the search functions on there.
Yes Google is very very well known, as is Microsoft and MSN. While the marketing ploy wont work with us geeks, I'll quite happily bet it'll affect large numbers of 'ordinary' computer users.
I love the slick, clean and crisp design of Google but it's amazing the amount of people who prefer a site such as MSN because it's got pretty flashing lights, lots of colour and all the rest of the shit on it.
Just because we're geeks doesn't mean that everyone else thinks like us.
Re:Marketing is the problem (Score:5, Insightful)
But don't tar the entire MS line with the same brush. If MS Office is such shit, why is Open Office practically a feature by feature clone of it? (I'm sure I'll get roasted for that one but from what I've seen of it...)
Face it, MS Office for all the times it makes you want to jump out a window because Excel chart font sizes are determined by a random number generator when you shift the window size, is a very solid suite. The ability to double click on a chart in a power point presentation, open up the underlying excel spreadsheet and fix problems, or just create a new chart, is absolutely fantastic.
Even some academic journals are now allowing
Although really, of the big trio: Excel, Word and Powerpoint, Word is clearly the worst of them, and by a big margin.
Again I'm not saying they don't have their quirks, but the office suite has certainly revolutionized (to a minor extent) the way many people do publishing and presentations.
Irony: As I type this message praising MS software, the delete key has stopped working in this IE window.
Re:It might if you keep advertizing it ever y day (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Of course (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Of course (Score:5, Insightful)
Depends. If you crush the life out of your competition such that in the future you'll be able to get their market and prevent them from moving into yours, then it was a good investment. Giving away IE to suck the life out of Netscape, for instance.
Ugh... MSN is too slow! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:duh (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Google only stands one chance (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft has had an Internet search engine for some time now, and IE has used it as its default and only search engine that whole time, yet Google is the world's #1 search engine.
Sometimes the Right Thing wins: Compare the success of .NET with the success of Java. Compare the success of IIS with the success of Apache.
Google didn't get to be a verb by sucking, and a search engine being subsidized by a monopoly will not cause Google to suck or go away or lose any meaningful part of its market share.
Re:Alternative viewpoint. (Score:5, Insightful)
If they have access to information of who registered what domain name, they can weed out link farmers much more easily.
Re:Of course (Score:3, Insightful)
What's going on at google?
Re:Marketing is the problem (Score:2, Insightful)
2. Said users will almost definitely have been exposed to MS Office.
3. If said users view OpenOffice as having few of the features of MS Office, they are unlikely to switch - especially as changing from a familiar piece of software to an unfamiliar one is already a frightening prospect for many people.
The same thing happens with Linux and its Desktop environments; if I suggest that someone checks out Linux, I am instantly hit with a litany of "Will it open Word docs? Can I do this [feature that Windows has?] Can I do that [other feature that Windows has?]". The result tends to be that this this and that is eventually included into Linux, regardless of its merit as a feature. An alternative to any Microsoft product has a huge disadvantage - it has to be able to do everything the MS product can do, plus more. This is at least part of the reason why MS is so oft-copied, in my opinion. Plus, admittedly, MS often beats people to the punch of coming up with the best way of doing something.
Re:Untrue. (Score:3, Insightful)
Btw, this is not all about marketing, it's also a bit about manageability. Say foobar@gmail.com turns into a spam address? Better check the one that send him an invite, and also those who he got into GMail. An invite is basicly saying "I think this person will use this service correctly".
Invite = Vote; sounds like Google, doesn't it?
Re:Marketing is the problem (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Of course (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Huh? (Score:3, Insightful)
I hope someone does it soon (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Untrue. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Gmail is ready for public launch (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Hardly (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft's usual product pattern is (IMHO):
1.0: Pretty useless and not in the same class as the market leader.
2.0: Not as good as the market leader but you could use it in a pinch.
3.0: About as good as the market leader.
4.0: Market leader fell down stairs or something and mysteriously MS is ahead now.
I would say that MSN search is up to about 2.0 right now.