The NeXT-Best Thing: GNUSTEP 0.9.4 Live CD 444
roard writes "Following the NeXT tradition with mixed case, GNUSTEP is a live CD/distribution while GNUstep is an implementation of the OpenStep API. GNUSTEP is based on Morphix, and uses the GNUstep libraries and GNUstep-based applications to provide a NeXTSTEP-like environment that people can easily test and use. This new 0.9.4 release comes 8 months since the precedent 0.5 release, and brings a lot of new GNUstep applications with it, as well as an upgrade of the GNUstep libraries and the development tools. In other news, a small demonstration of GNUstep development tools is available in Flash or divx. The old dream of having a GNU OS with Hurd and an OpenStep implementation doesn't seems that far now ;)"
Hurd? (Score:3, Interesting)
This Should Be THE Desktop Environment for Linux (Score:5, Interesting)
With the relative compatibility to the OS X/OPENSTEP libraries and code re-use, there could be a real network effect by making this a default environment for Linux and other Unixes.
Interesting how this post appears.... (Score:5, Interesting)
I was just looking at OpenStep/GNUstep/Cocoa stuff before browsing Slashdot today, and I came here to search for old GNUstep articles. Interesting....
Anyways, GNUstep sounds like a very interesting platform. I have always been fond of NEXTSTEP and Mac OS X, and I have been curious about Objective-C and Cocoa. GNUstep gives me an opportunity to learn Objective-C and the OpenStep specification, before I switch to Mac OS X. I seem very impressed by the development environment, and as soon as I build up my C programming skills and learn Objective-C, I'll be developing programs, too.
I only wish, though, that GNUstep was a bit more popular among developers. GNUstep seems to lack programs such as web browsers, word processors, and spreadsheets. Porting applications such as Firefox, Abiword, and Gnumeric, for example, would be difficult because those applications are written in C++, not in C. (GNUstep still doesn't support Objective-C++, because of some difficulties that Apple and GCC has with Apple's Objective-C++ implementation). Even so, I feel that GNUstep has the potential to become a very powerful and influential platform for developers. If it can build its developer base and developers start building applications that are just as good, or better, than what NEXTSTEP and OPENSTEP offered, just imagine the possibilities....
Re:Man screw that (Score:5, Interesting)
- Adding the ability for GORM to parse XML
.nib files from Interface builder. - Compiling GORM on OS X linked against Cocoa rather than GNUstep and using it to create Cocoa
.nib files directly.
At least one of these should be possible in the next few months.The Windows port more or less works (transparency in images is broken. Everything else seems to work). Additionally there is a bundle (not yet in the release) which creates Windows-style menu bars instead of GNUstep ones for use on platforms like Windows, KDE and GNOME which are designed by people with no clue about Fitts' Law.
Additionally, Cameleon, the theme engine developed by the article submitter is nearing completion (it's been ready in the next week since the middle of January), and it will eventually be tied in with native theme engines for other desktop environments (including Windows) to give a completely native look for GNUstep apps.
One STeP Beyond (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:yeah... but it looks like its from the 80s (Score:5, Interesting)
To my eye, for reasons I can't fully explain, at first glance the GNUstep version looks more cluttered and complicated even though some inspection will show all the same UI elements in the same places with the same icons. It's the colors, and the sizing and style of the widgets, and just the general feel given off by the look as a whole.
Jedidiah.
Re:yeah... but it looks like its from the 80s (Score:5, Interesting)
The big issues I tend to have with GNUstep GUIs are
(1) The big chunky controls. In comparison to the font size all the GNUstep controls are huge boxy things adding to the cluttered look.
(2) List selector widgets: You know the ones, the NeXT file manager used them. They need horizontal scrollbars usually. As far as GUIs go that's not a very efficient or pretty way to manage things. NeXT had some very good ideas. That wasn't one of them. The world has moved on.
(3) Floating menus: MacOS puts the app menus across the top of the screen to "obey Fitt's law", most everyone else has them at the top of the application. GNUstep kindly has them as bizarre free floating objects. Once again, not one of NeXT's better ideas. Can't we move on from slavishly copying NeXT?
(4) Empty scroll troughs: Nice big (due to those huge widget controls) areas of the screen that have no obvious function until you get enough items for the scrollbar to appear. Either put a full size scrollbar in there, or have the scroll widgets appear when required. Again, slavishly copying NeXT even on their "not so good" ideas.
There's a reason no one else took up these particular ideas from NeXT, not even MacOS X which is essentially the next generation NeXT. The reason is that they aren't very good - at the time (early 90s) they looked promising, but we've had GUIs for a long time now, and ideas of what works and what doesn't have come a long way. For some reason GNUstep slavishly follows NeXT even in their foolish early 90s mistakes.
Jedidiah.
Re:boring demonstration (Score:4, Interesting)
You could not have. Pointing out your lack of experience doesn't help your argument. Spend a few minutes developing for GNUSTEP/NeXTSTEP/MacOS X or whatever, and see what it actually does and how to use it, and you'll realize why people who are ``with it'' get excited about this kind of stuff. What I've found is that I will spend extra time getting my UI to be perfect (IB lets you not only define your UI in shape, actions, resizing, etc..., but also try it out to see how it acts when its resized, or how the buttons click, etc...).
MacOS X is definitely the direction to follow in software development. Native apps built in xcode with ZeroLink and even dynamic code replacement (i.e. smalltalk-style bug fixing from the debugger without restarting your app). So, no time spent linking, but you can use an arbitrarily large and automatically discovered compile farm while developing rich MVC apps quickly and easily.
Also, see what happens when more palettes are completed. If they had the WebKit palette, for example, they could've done a demo where they created a full-featured web browser in the same time (you can do this on MacOS X with *no* code). In the video that was going around of a NS 3.3 demo in 1992 by Steve Jobs, he created a pretty decent graphical employee database application in just a couple of minutes that would allow you to look up departments (with pictures), and look through the list of employees within that department (with pictures of the employees). Again, with no code.
The openstep objects are great to work with, though. I just ported an app from python to objective C just so I could use the URL loading kit from cocoa. That is a particular thing missing from gnustep that I'd like to get ported over (although, it may be part of the webkit that Apple was working in open source).
I've worked in quite a few GUI kits (raw X11, Motif, tk, awt, swing, morphic, nextstep, probably more I can't think of), and I can assure you the objective C MVC kit wins hands-down so far.
Anyway, give it a shot before you say it's pointless. It's very impressive and has huge potential.
Try Camaeleon (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme
or that:
http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme
http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme
http://www.roard.com/screenshots/screenshot_theme
and so on