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Internet Explorer The Internet

IE7 Details Emerge 946

Varg Vikernes writes "Microsoft Watch has a story about new features we can expect in IE7 (code named 'Rincon') which they gathered through Microsoft's key partners. Apparently we can expect 32 bit PNG support, native IDN support, new functionality that will simplify printing from inside IE and, of course, tabbed browsing. The new browser also will likely include a built-in news aggregator. Apparently an important factor is security."
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IE7 Details Emerge

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  • by Megaslow ( 694447 ) * on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @07:40PM (#11948246) Homepage
    rincon is Spanish for "corner"... Perhaps a not-so-Freudian-slip on what they want to do to the browser market?

    It will be interesting to see what else (other than tabbed browsing & RSS aggregation) will be "inspired" by Firefox and other browers, say perhaps, easy plugins and themes?

  • Tabbed Browsing? (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @07:40PM (#11948259)
    Ummmm... the article says that microsoft had no comment on tabbed browsing. It didn't even *hint* that there would be tabbed browsing.

    Looks like Slashdot editors missed one again.
  • Name change for IE7 (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Matt Perry ( 793115 ) <perry@matt54.yahoo@com> on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @07:43PM (#11948299)
    I guess that IE7 [edwards.name] will have to change its name.

    And about MS's product: I just hope they fix all their CSS issues and add support for CSS 3.

  • by papercrane ( 817404 ) <papercrane.reversefold@com> on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @07:44PM (#11948302) Homepage
    Or it could be that they're trying to *turn* a corner and do things right.

    Of course, we all know that will never happen.
  • by Rude Turnip ( 49495 ) <valuation@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @07:44PM (#11948311)
    Microsoft likes to use codenames based upon the names of mountains. XP was Whistler for instance. There is a "Rincon" mountain range in Arizona.
  • Re:printing (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Rude Turnip ( 49495 ) <valuation@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @07:47PM (#11948336)
    A print preview mode like Firefox has would be nice. That way, if you need to print only certain pages of a large document (like a Form 10-K) you can specify with ease which pages you'd like to print.
  • Factor this... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by dallask ( 320655 ) <codeninja@@@gmail...com> on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @07:47PM (#11948344) Homepage
    When MS says that "an important factor is security" what their really saying is "We know the linux community will rigorusly test our product and find our bugs for us... when they do, we'll fix those bugs immidiately... or at least in a few months."
  • xp/2003 only? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nurb432 ( 527695 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @07:47PM (#11948345) Homepage Journal
    So is this when they finally cut off ( and piss off ) all the *millions* of users that still have 98/NT/2000?

    Users that cant upgrade unless they get newer hardware. Users that know what they have now does the job and have resisted the 'upgrade scam'.

  • Re:I thought... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by kryogen1x ( 838672 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @07:50PM (#11948375)
    Hate to reply to myself, but here's the article [slashdot.org]

    From the Article:

    "English reiterated that features such as tabbed browsing are not important to IE users."

  • by winterdrake ( 823887 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @07:52PM (#11948397)
    If they want me to care about IE7, they're going to need to give me something that Firefox doesn't already give me more of. They could start with Adblock...that much at least is required before they're even under consideration.

    Microsoft seems to be having trouble lately with new products actually doing something new. Longhorn for example - what exactly is supposed to be new in that again? They had three things they were hyping, none of which was terribly revolutionary to start with, and all of which have since been dropped or will be available (eventually) as an upgrade to existing OSes.
  • Innovate??? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Horrortaxi ( 803536 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @07:52PM (#11948399)
    I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say they'll innovate. Innovate means they will break new ground and offer something you haven't seen before. They'll offer what all the other browsers have had for 2 years and that's it. No innovation, just keeping up with the Jonses. Now maybe they'll have some innovative marketing plan or some innovative predatory practices that will allow them to rincon the browser market again. That's where Microsoft really innovates.
  • Rincon? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by game kid ( 805301 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @07:52PM (#11948401) Homepage
    That's where my dad was born! [rincon-puertorico.com] Sweet (bitterly of course with IE's reputation).

    What one should be scared of is the "IE 7.0 will feature international domain name (IDN) support" part -- can an IE user disable it like Firefox has [linuxinsider.com] (should he desire to use IE of course) before someone *ahem*rincóns them with a bad IDN?
  • by zumajim ( 681331 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @07:55PM (#11948437) Journal
    I hope they change the codename so I don't end up associating IE with my favorite surf spot in Santa Barbara. I'd prefer another oil spill to that.
  • by Augusto ( 12068 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @07:58PM (#11948475) Homepage
    unlikely, rincon in spanish means just that corner, but "turn a corner" is a phrase that doesn't exist in spanish.
  • by RoadWarriorX ( 522317 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @08:00PM (#11948497) Homepage
    It seems the threat from Firefox is forcing them to innovate and improve in a market they once took for granted.

    Have you RTFA? Tabbed browsing, IDN support, RSS news aggregator all available in Firefox in some form. So, where exactly is the innovation? Possibly anti-spyware integration??? That's like a mouse setting a mouse trap for itself.

    Additionally, Microsoft's "improvement" is really their way of saying that they are now in "catch up" mode.

    I don't mean to flame you, but customers should not look forward to the next version of IE in six months or so, when they can get virtually the same features today with Firefox.

    All I need to say is "Why Even Bother".
  • Re:security (Score:5, Interesting)

    by LiquidCoooled ( 634315 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @08:06PM (#11948556) Homepage Journal
    Actually, a fairly reasonable visual tradeoff could be to display all extended characters in a different color.

    For instance, if the extended characters were displayed in purple, but the normal characters remained black, then you could continue using it, and KNOW that its a mixed domain.

    Infact, just typing that gives another solution, have mixed domains (std and extended) come up in a totally different size/style.

    That way, all normal domains look normal, and all extended domains also look normal, but those using a combination are glagged as such.

    just a thought.
  • Re:So, basically... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by TrappedByMyself ( 861094 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @08:17PM (#11948659)
    Brilliant isn't it?
    Firefox becomes a research and development team for Microsoft. And since the open source community won't patent their stuff, MS is free to steal the ideas that worked.

    When it arrives, IE7 will be praised by the press as a step into the future.
  • Re:Security (Score:3, Interesting)

    by welshbyte ( 839992 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @08:17PM (#11948664) Homepage
    blocked ActiveX & Java by default was a good move

    For the sake of accuracy, its ActiveX and Javascript, not Java, that were blocked by default. Any removal [microsoft.com] of Java from IE is going to come years in the future and is due to a court decision and a very relaxed attitude to the timescale by Sun. Getting back on topic, i don't think a simple browser should even have to worry about a thing like permissions. This should be done at a higher level closer to the OS. If security is an issue with IE they need to strip any security handling from IE and put it where its most effective.
  • by idsofmarch ( 646389 ) <(pmingram) (at) (gmail.com)> on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @08:18PM (#11948670)
    Or the same features coming in Safari when Tiger is released in April.

    The RSS news aggregator was announced at WWDC nine months ago.

  • Re:security (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Pandora's Vox ( 231969 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @08:22PM (#11948708) Homepage Journal
    that's a very reasonable way of doing it, but i wonder if maybe making the location bar a different colour as FireFox does for secure sites might be a better - in the sense of more obvious - solution.

    it's kind of funny, though, how it is essentially our (as in the mostly-north-american-and-western-european readership of slashdot)'s lack of familiarity with the writing systems of the rest of the world that are getting us into this particular pickle.

    add that to bad eyes from gazing into a CRT for too many hours, and designers with predelictions for ever-smaller fonts, and you have quite the character set predicament.
  • by generic-man ( 33649 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @08:28PM (#11948761) Homepage Journal
    Why in the hell do you need an RSS aggregator in your web browser? That's almost as preposterous as needing a mail client or an HTML editor bundled in. A web browser is great at viewing documents; let an RSS reader wrap around the browser, not the other way around.

    It's not surprising that Safari 2.0 (in the developer builds) crashes even more than Safari 1.2 does. I'd like to see them fix the horrible reliability of Safari before bolting on useless features.
  • by eturro ( 804858 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @08:30PM (#11948772)
    I think you'll find Megaslow was referring to "cornering" the market, not "turn a corner".
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @08:45PM (#11948944)
    This is the stupidest decision I have ever heard. They are practicly driving everyone with 2000 and lower over to firefox. It's like giving a present to one child, naturaly the other will be pissed as shit and not like the parent. Microsoft is digging themselves a hole, not only in the browser world but also Operating System.

    The school I go to is run completely by Windows 2000, negating the Macs.
    There is NO WAY, they could afford coppies for XP much less run it on the ancient hardware which is strained under the excessive crap in 2000.

    98 ran fast, WTF happened?!
  • Re:xp/2003 only? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by optimus2861 ( 760680 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @08:53PM (#11949010)
    So is this when they finally cut off ( and piss off ) all the *millions* of users that still have 98/NT/2000?

    To be fair to MS, 98 and NT are already past their mainstream support phases if you look at their support site Linky [microsoft.com]. However, in the case of 2000, you're dead-on; it's really taken the shaft compared to XP, even though it's still in its mainstream support phase until the end of June. No back-port of any of the XP security changes made for SP2, and of course no back-port for this either. Puts the lie to that "mainstream support" claim, doesn't it?

  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @08:58PM (#11949065)
    If not CSS2 as well... try this page [tunes.org] in Netscape and then use IE and count how many more default box-like characters there are...
  • by dtjohnson ( 102237 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @09:05PM (#11949113)
    Improving the security of Windows will require a lot more than an IE update. Microsoft starts with basically insecure processes and then trys to plug all of the unintended uses (aka security holes) that they can think of.

    For example, look at the standard Windows update procedure for Windows XP. First, you have to go to a website to download software that you then allow to run on your system looking for updates. Then, you have to let the software download a sometimes long list of self-installing 'updates' from some location that the Microsoft software selects for you. The download procedure gives the user very little supervisory control over the process and doesn't even do very simple things such as display checksum data to let the user verify the integrity of the downloads. There is also little, if any, indication of what the downloads will do or replace. Yet Microsoft considers this inherently insecure process to be their standard procedure for updating their flagship operating system.

    Microsoft needs to change their entire philosophy wherein they think that they should be able to anything they want with your computer at any time while the bad guys are not supposed to use the same mechanisms to steal your data and your cycles.

  • Re:Um...WTFN? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by wootest ( 694923 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @09:10PM (#11949148)
    Actually, IE's box model will *currently* - in IE6 - change when put into standards mode, meaning you have one of a few (hardcoded?) doctypes at the top of your page (omitting any xml prologues). It doesn't even have to validate, just carry the correct doctype. Sadly, I agree with the rest of your comment, including the * html bug, which I hope they leave in. That or invent conditional comments for CSS.
  • Re:security (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @09:24PM (#11949233)
    The problem isn't the people. Microsoft hires smart people, from the creator of the Delphi programming language or an ACM graphics genius. (The C# has nothing on Java or Delphi *cough*.) The problem is the work environment. It is not a suitable research ground for these bright new hires. Somehow, these brilliant people don't continue the research they love and are instead guided by the opinions of marketroids and other less-talented idiots. Instead of researching and developing ideas that could eventually revolutionize the industry, these people end up forced to develop lack-luster gimmicy software that will end up as fads. These products may turn a short-term profit but will not withstand the test of time.
  • Re:security (Score:1, Interesting)

    by datafr0g ( 831498 ) <datafrog@BOYSENgmail.com minus berry> on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @09:36PM (#11949347) Homepage
    Hey, Microsoft does innovate.... they innovate crap!
    Where'd you think the talking paperclip comes from?
    Too bad it's more annoying and offensive than any other piece of software in existance, but it's still innovation.
    http://www.vcnet.com/bms/departments/innovation.sh tml#talking [vcnet.com]
  • Re:Um...WTFN? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ff1324 ( 783953 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @09:36PM (#11949353)

    Like it'll make a difference...

    Why not fill out the Microsoft Suggestion Box Form at http://register.microsoft.com/mswish/suggestion.as p?from=cu&fu=/isapi/gomscom.asp?target=/mswish/tha nks.htm [microsoft.com]

    What do ya have to lose? Ask for everything.

  • Re:security (Score:4, Interesting)

    by Pandora's Vox ( 231969 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @10:06PM (#11949609) Homepage Journal
    right on topic: bruce shneier, my favourite security wonk, just wrote a great piece about the failure of two-factor identification [schneier.com], especially when it comes to fishing. a very worthwhile read, as is all his stuff that i've read :-)
  • Re:security (Score:2, Interesting)

    by garroo ( 748175 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @10:26PM (#11949771) Journal

    IE? Security? Does this mean they are ripping ActiveX from the browser/engine?

    How long before a Mozilla-based browser gives me the ability to rip out MSHTML from the OS!?!?

    That's what I'm talking about! Security through OS modification!

    Now, if we can only get the Mozilla folks to abandon the idiotic name "SeaMonkey" and call it something cool, like OpenMozilla.org.

    Hell, while they're at it, why not make composer into a fully fledged Word Processor. We need another of those, right? no?

    I digress. I seriously don't see how MSIE v.whatever can ever be considered secure, so long as they retain ActiveX and non-standard rendering.

  • it's kind of funny, though, how it is essentially our (...)'s lack of familiarity with the writing systems of the rest of the world that are getting us into this particular pickle.

    Actually no. The problem is really just that UTF-8 is too powerful. There are half a dozen ways to encode something that looks like an 'a'. It can actually get worse for people who are multilingual -- A Frenchman who expects a site encoded with an accented A (ä) might then be sent a URL where a similar looking character (ä) is encoded out of some other page. In this case, both ä's will be marked as extended UTF characters, so there may be no easy way for a user to distinguish between the 'legitimate' site and the phish monger. You tell me which one is legitimate! (and, yes, they are different encodings in this posting).

  • by Dracos ( 107777 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:21PM (#11950163)

    MS is doing as little as it can for its users. XP+SP2 and 2k3 only? Come on, they're just creating another excuse to keep the upgrade carousel turning.

    It surprises me that they're going to improve PNG and CSS support at all. But being MS, we know there's going to be a catch.

    • PNG: Something sinister, I dunno what (perhaps like positioning a 32 bit image over another one will result in trans levels showing up as colors), with alpha transparency will be done just wrong enough to make it a hassle.
    • CSS: I would be surprised again (floored, even) if they fixed the box model. I think what they are calling "improved CSS support" can more accurately be called "improved DOM and event model support", like supporting :hover on elements other than links. They can't fix too much, because MS is famously afraid of breaking backwards compatibility. Any CSS support they fix will be little things that amount to a big list.

    Call me a pessimist, but look at their track record. I don't see anyone at MS advocating putting a time warp in IE to bring its users (victims) from the 2001 web to the 2005 web in one fell swoop.

  • by Ars-Fartsica ( 166957 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:35PM (#11950250)
    ...and still the crap comes out. By the way, what makes you think rich companies can produce quality better than poor ones? Google was poor when it changed the search landscape. Kia was (relatively) poor when it started producing better quality (lower defect rate) cares than Mercedes...
  • IDN solution (Score:5, Interesting)

    by cryptoluddite ( 658517 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:41PM (#11950281)
    The solution is pretty obvious IMO: when looking up the domain name get some other records such as the company name, contact address, etc and display them in the URL bar, window title, status, or some other place. Perhaps a firefox-style extra panel that appears and gives that info.

    Who cares if the site says it is www.bank.com if you can easily see it is registered to Boris at his mom's basement in Russia?

  • Re:Um...WTFN? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by AstroDrabb ( 534369 ) on Tuesday March 15, 2005 @11:52PM (#11950336)
    I would have expected a big push for compliance with the whole .NET campaign they are pushing, a lot of it revolves around web app creation
    MS's .Net sends down different HTML depending on whether you are making the request with an IE browser or a non-IE browser. It is one of the things I really _hate_ about .Net. I actually like C# a lot and use it every day, I just can't stand how MS tries to lock out everyone.

    For example, in a .Net web app, you can add validators. So if you have a text input, you can validate that it is not empty when a form is submitted. This is _very_ simple JavaScript. However, with .Net, if you are using an IE browser, you will get an error message without going to the server. If it is a non-IE browser, it requires a round-trip to the server. How crappy is that? Like the people at MS could not write some simple standards compliant JavaScript to check if a freaking field is empty or not before a form post.

    That is just one example. There are tons of others with the "built-in" web controls with the .Net framework that have all been made to work well in IE and have limited functionality in non-IE browser.

    Because of crap like MS does with .Net, it has made me use Java/JSP for web apps. At least then I can control how well my applications can work with different clients and not be subjected to MS trying to make the world MS-only.

    I really don't know what is wrong with MS. I mean, not all of their products are bad, and I really like some of MS's products. If they would just _compete_ and stop listening to their marketing/business @ssholes MS probably would not be too bad. All MS needs to do is compete and allow others to try to compete. MS needs to stop _all_ of their lock-in crap.

    Seriously, look at the amount of dedication that OSS programmers show. MS could have that same loyalty if they just gave a _little_ back to the community. I am not talking about their crap "shared" source license or the wimpy XML setup wizard they released. I am talking a few major contributions of their code that they let a _community_ improve could make a world of difference to MS and their reputation.

  • Re:security (Score:3, Interesting)

    by golgotha007 ( 62687 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @09:14AM (#11952251)
    Why do you think MS is waiting so long before releasing a product to compete with Firefox? It's all about business tactics.

    You see, MS knows that if their browser contains all of the same features as a third part browser, they will regain market share, and fast. Their browser is already included in the operating system. Why should someone like my father go out of his way to download and install a peice of software when it's already included in his OS?

    MS wants to be the underdog in this deal. They don't care about losing web browser market share. They are confident that when they finally release a browser that contains similar features to the leading third party browser that they will win over the market again (like with Netscape).

    Right now, they are slowly becoming the underdog in the web browser market. Just think of the headlines they will make as their new IE7 begins to redominate the web browser market. Think of the happy investors that see MS gaining ground again.

    MS is making a bold move; they just might pull this off. If they do, it's win/win for them.
  • Re:security (Score:3, Interesting)

    by orasio ( 188021 ) on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @10:30AM (#11952856) Homepage

    As a side note, I wouldnt use the word "empire" when not referring to government. The MS situation isn't pretty, but its hardly geopolitics regardless of how strongly geeks identify with the issue.


    Bill Gates tried to talk Brazil president Lula into changing his government decisions.
    Of course, he didn't even agree to a meeting, but that has some resemblance of someone seeking world domination.
  • Re:security (Score:3, Interesting)

    by stonecypher ( 118140 ) * <stonecypher@@@gmail...com> on Wednesday March 16, 2005 @02:45PM (#11955932) Homepage Journal
    Why [google.com] not? [google.com] It's [google.com] common. [google.com]

    You really should look a word up before criticizing someone else's use thereof. The word empire has nothing to do with government. The word empire, from emperor, from old french empéror, from latin imperatorium's nominative imperiator, is not a governmental title at all. The word means "commander," and was adopted only after conferred by a vote of the Roman military onto a successful general. There could be more than one imperator at once, until Julius and then Augustus adopted the title as a show of solidarity with the military, presumably to secure loyalties. Note that Tiberius and Claudius rejected the title after Julius and Augustus had taken it on; as military they felt it needed to be earned.

    The title "emperor" was applied to Asian monarchs by the West during the middle ages specifically because it was not a royal title, but rather a military one; the issue was to suggest that the Asian monarchs did not have the royal blood which at the time was seen as a semi-holy thing in Europe (qv. divine right, etc;) it was in essence a way to exclude Asian monarchs from "royalty" by word use.

    With respect, the word "empire" does not apply to most countries. An empire is not a large country, but something acquired and held by conquest. The United States is arguably an empire thanks to the Spanish American war, but the term is typically applied to territory acuired mostly through conquest instead of in small part, such as was the case with Russia (the original nation) and the USSR, with Britain and Portugal and the European colonial powers, with ancient Egypt and Rome and Macedon, with feudal Japan and ancient China and Mongolia, the Aztec empire, and so forth. By contrast, you would not apply these terms to Canada, to the Inca, to non-WW2 Germany, etc.

    With that observation, it becomes quite clear that the word "empire" does in fact apply quite well to some financial institutions - particularly those characterized by hostile takeover, marginalizations, and so forth.

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