New York Computerizes its Subway System

Iphtashu Fitz writes "New York City's Metropolitan Transit Authority launched it's first fully computer controlled subway line this month. The `L' Line of the MTA that connects the southern part of Manhattan with Brooklyn was picked for this pilot program because of its relatively short length and the fact that it doesn't share tracks with any other lines. Trains on this line no longer have conductors on board, and only a single driver in the front to monitor all the systems. What's the big deal, you may ask? After all, cities like San Francisco and Paris already have computerized subway lines. Well, having recently celebrated its 100th anniversary the MTA is one of the oldest subway systems in the United States, and one of the largest in the world. If all goes well, the MTA will continue to expand automated service to the rest of the subway system over the next 20 years. But just how safe and secure will these new automated lines be? The radio links that provide data communication between the trains and the control center are encrypted, but how long until a hacker manages to crack it?"

Re:Cracker schmackers

[same_old_story]

actually, the bombs were dropped during the II World War, that is 1945. it will mark the 60th anniversarie.

Re:Potential problems

[boa13]

Without a conductor, who's going to yell at everyone to stop holding the doors? How does this work in other automated systems, like Paris's Météor?

Trust me, you don't hold the doors -- you can't, they're too strong. Or maybe you can, but I've yet to see someone try (even though that's a local sport on other, non-automated lines -- it's not like nobody ever holds doors in Paris).

They make some kind of "sound of inevitability", loud and somewhat fast. Then, there's the fact that there are two set of doors per opening (one for the platform, one for the train itself), twice as much to hold when compared to the older lines.

Finally, there's decent traffic on the line, you don't have to wait much if you miss a train (except after 10pm, when you need to wait five minutes or so).

So, as much as it occured even to me to hold the doors for a nearby friend on other lines (nearby meaning really nearby, not at the top of the stairs far over there), it never occured on line 14 (the automated line).

Re:Power Grid Setup

[marcsiry]

Non-New Yorkers may be excused for not getting our backward terminology for train staff.

The 'Conductor,' who in the rest of the worl drives the trains, sits in the center of NYC subway trains and opens and closes the doors, and announces stops (until the recorded voices in recent trains, that is).

The guy driving the train up front, and looking for kids and other garbage on the tracks, is called the 'motorman.' You see, he's the guy that turns the motor on and off. Or something.

Anyhow, they're planning to eliminate the conductor, but keep the motorman- so there will still be someone up front watching for imminent collisions. When they're not asleep, that is.

Re:Subways big targets?

[Doc Ruby]

Like every few years, when a rainstorm paralyzes the City by shutting down the poorly maintained railways, or the occasional blackout? Why fear terrorists, when the MTA maintenance incompetence actually screws us up our lives fairly often?

Re:I was reading the it...

[RollingThunder]

The Skytrain in Vancouver BC is completely automated, and it works well.

The doors have "pinch" sensors, and while people can use them to get the door to re-open, it only re-opens three times until the system flags a central operator. Usually people start yelling after the second time.

In emergencies, there's a panic strip and a comm system, and cameras.

There are control panels, but they're only used when something bizarre has happened on the track and manual routing is needed.

Re:it's going to be better regardless

[mjolnir_]

That line was up and running again in weeks, not months, mostly because a) big political bureaucracies like the NYC MTA always overstate the time/budget needed (aka the 'Scotty effect'), and b) the system wasn't so overly complicated that replacing the gear, recreating the settings, etc, didn't take as long or cost as much as it would've if the system was using modern electronics.

Some of the equipment destroyed was actually from the 1930s; the MTA took advantage of the unplanned downtime to patch the system to more recent vinntage gear and bring it more in line with the whole of the system.

Is it slick, no, but it runs, and most days it runs pretty damn well. Better than what CALTRANS can do with a few billion dollars and a private ATM switched network -- and the NYC subway carries more people further every day.

Re:Potential problems

[hattig]

I don't know about Paris' underground system, but some new systems install double doors, doors on the platform that match the train doors. It isn't possible to hold each one open at the same time easily. New sections of the london underground have it. it also stops suicides as the inner doors only open when a train is stopped.

Not that I've ever seen a conductor on the london underground, either on the train or on the platform. Just some monitors for the driver to see, and a populace who can behave to some extent.

Re:Potential problems

[timealterer]

Here in Vancouver, we occasionally have an issue on our automated rapid transit trains with people holding the doors. Luckily, in the absense of a conductor to yell at the fool holding everybody up, the other train passengers take on this role. The doors will try to close, and if obstructed, will re-open for about 2 seconds. If you're still in the way a second time, people start to voice their annoyance that you're making them late for work.

Re:Potential problems

[NaruVonWilkins]

In the Japanese systems in Tokyo, there are people to check for such things, even though the system is automated. In the SkyTrain system in Vancouver, Canada, there are no personnel at any of the stops. I have experienced extremely packed stations after a hockey game got out, and I saw that the doors couldn't really be held open - like an elevator door, they closed slowly after being blocked open once.

Underwhelmed. Nuremberg goes driverless.

[alphorn]

Nuremberg will introduce a completely driverless subway next year. Good article with lots of pictures. See (partially English) PDF [siemens.at]

Vancouver had an automated train since 1986.

[ABeowulfCluster]

That's 19 years. Older than some slashdot readers.

I for one welcome New York to 20'th century technology while we live in the 21'st century.

Or

[spudchucker]

but how long until a hacker manages to crack it?

Or cracker manages to hack it?

Re:Computerised lines cause train crashes

[friedo]

All New York City subway lines have pneumatic tripcocks tied into the signal relays. It's impossible for a train to pass a red signal without having its emergency brake tripped. The tripcocks require pneumatic pressure to be pushed down, guaranteeing that a malfunctioning one stops a train instead of letting it through. These are still there in the new CBTC system and aren't going anywhere.

Re:Vancouver had an automated train since 1986.

[GISGEOLOGYGEEK]

Here, look for yourself dumbass:

http://www.translink.bc.ca/Transportation_Servic es /SkyTrain/

or, if you can't read, 49KM, 32 stations.

No, its not huge like the FULL new york system, why would it be? There's only 1.7million people in the Vancouver region.

BUT, it is bigger than the 24 station, roughly 20km long L line.

Re:Just a scam to avoid paying working people

[Austerity Empowers]

You clearly were either not alive, or not conscious back when NYC ran the transit system, it was put under state control precisely because NYC mayors, at that time, lacked the ability to manage it and the state was tired of throwing money at NYC and watching it get misused. In short the transit system was filthy, falling apart and infinitely less reliable. Addicts lived in the subway system and forget mere muggings, you used to run a risk of getting stabbed or shot. I commuted past midnight every night for 5 years and have yet to have even been hit up for spare change in recent years. I didn't live in Manhattan either. I don't know where you live, but the subway system in NY is far superior today than it was 15 years ago. Your entire argument makes you sound like the relative of some failed politician who still has an old grudge. Whose coffers are being filled? What is the relation between Albany "fat cats" and this "failed defense contractor". In fact who is that contractor, do you even know? Who are said pimps? Whose jobs were taken away? I've heard of firemen and teachers losing jobs in NYC, but not many layoffs from the MTA? Who would ultimately fund the NYC Transit if not the working men and women of NYC and would that be different if NYC was running the system? Do you really think NYC politicians are less corrupt and more capable than Albany? I believe perhaps Giuliani was the better leader, but I'm not sure about Bloomberg (and Dinkins was a total nitwit). If you're just going to troll, troll better.

Re:As anyone that lives in New York can tell you..

[splatterboy]

The L is so much better than it was 7 years ago when I first got to w'burg, half hour waits... as for your come lately friends and the "hipsters" who cant figure out the JMZ line or a car service... thats their problem.

Re:The L has been down BECAUSE of this upgrade.

[Have Blue]

The current system is a house of cards. Remember a few months back when a bum broke two major subway lines with a single track fire? [nytimes.com] I agree about the conductors, but the subway still has major problems and does need a major upgrade.

Re:Potential problems.... I hope they visited

[davidsyes]

overseas rail systems.

NY rail has nothing on:

(For me to be somewhat semi-balanced, I managed to include a general subway lines link for subways:

http://www.reed.edu/~reyn/transport.html

of the world... but, the remaining links are of Tokyo Area...)

Pictures of train cars:
http://hisaai.at.infoseek.co.jp/Tokyo/car_e g.html

http://hisaai.at.infoseek.co.jp/Tokyo/index_eg.h tm l

Tickets & ticket machines & "wicket machines":

http://hisaai.at.infoseek.co.jp/Tokyo/ticket_eg. ht ml

Rail chimes/audio tunes:

Interesting tech site I stumbled upon while trying to find the metro stations' audible alerts/tones...:

http://www.byz.org/~rbanks/movableType/webLog/tr en ds/archives/cat_2_network_mobility.html

(see: "CNN: Almost a Million Koreans Bank by Phone")

http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000927038823/

Tokyo Metro 2002:

http://www.christopherholt.com/subjects/japan-06 .h tm

Tokyo Big Sight:
http://www.bigsight.jp/english/access/

Tokyo Metro Marunouchi Line:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Metro_Ma runouch i_Line

Japan Guide:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e2017.html

Visiting Odaiba & Daiba
http://wikitravel.org/en/Tokyo/Odaiba
====

Now, for my commentary...

The NY experiment or conversion is not even worth an "it's about time...". and barely worth a "yawn". Probably unions kept this delayed for as long as it is... Hyuumons have a way of delaying automation, but then management/CEOs have a way with wiping out jobs for a frickin' bottom line, too... Of course, we can recall the Standard Oil and other companies that systematically bought up almost every single city rail car line to encourage the gas-swilling privately-owned vehicle (POV). (I think the POV (and lack of rapid communications and intra/interstate driver's license checking) is one of the single-largest factors in the US infidelity/divorce rate, thanks to the POV's enabling traveling salesmen to have a wife or lover in multiple cities, much like sailors having a girl (or, umm, boy, heheh) in every port.)

I seriously doubt there is a single rail system in the US that compares to some overseas, particularly to the multiple systems in Tokyo that that share the same track. The Shinjuku station along services over 2 million passengers a day, if I recall, and I used that and other stations there.

The trains have an operator in front, and sometime, but not always, have an operator or safety monitor in the back control station. Generally, the person in back is there to ensure there are no pax stuck in the doors as the cute alert tunes chime away that the train is moving. Heck, even inside the trains there are (on the JR Line, at least) really cool plasma or LCD monitors that show in color any number of commercials/adverts, and the moving block diagram of the train, its next station arrival, and delays information in English and Japanese. I wonder if Spanish or other languages will be on the NY system, or if their system is only going as far as testing the repacability of operators. I seriously doubt many US lines would survive vandalism. Of course, I gather, NY has trains that run all night long, and sometimes, for me it was an incovenience in Tokyo to have to rush to the train before 12:30, to get back to my bunk, but other lines ran until about 1AM or 1:30. I hardly saw any litter on the Japanese trains, and cannot recall seeing ANY graffiti or torn seats. The stations themselves are different,, but when you have over 2 million users a day passing through or going to shop in the multi-use centers, any city would have a few torn posters here and there. BART seems OK, by my comparisons to Tokyo's lines (all of these I rode):

-sakusa
-Mita
-Shinjuku
-Ooedo
-JR Yamanote
-JR
-Toei Streetcar/Arakawa

Re:Underwhelmed. Nuremberg goes driverless.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeh right. Lille was built 20 years ago, 100% driverless. Lyon has had an automated line for, what, 10 years now? Plus a second automated one (and two manual lines, including one of the world's steepest ones) thrown in for good measure.

L14 in Paris has been built automated, what, 7 years ago? And take this: its primary control software has been built from the ground up to be mathematically proven bug-free. Read up on the "B-Method" from INRIA someday.

Re:L: Williamsburg's link to Manhattan

[splatterboy]

sheesh... ever hear of the JMZ? the train that actually goes over the williamsburg bridge? why are all you other new yorkers sniveling about the L being the one and only... walk a couple of blocks and take the JMZ. you'll like it, its senic, a great view over the bridge... ok the towers are gone but still...

the jmz connects to the 456 and the NRQW at canal, get ya anywhere ya wanna go.

Re:Vancouver had an automated train since 1986.

[DerekLyons]

I for one welcome New York to 20'th century technology while we live in the 21'st century.

Your snarky comment sounds impressive to those who don't understand the differences (and who are probably anti-US anyhow)... But it's unmitigated bullshit.

It's easy (as these things go) to build a fully automated line when it's fairly small and pretty much a simple loop or point-to-point built all at once. (Yes, I know the two lines were built at separate times, but each was built all at once.) It's ignorant in the extreme to believe that 'proves' anything about a system a hundred times or more larger and orders of magnitude more complex.

Compare the Skytrain [nycsubway.org] routes with the New York subway [nycsubway.org] routes.

Re:WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO!

[vagabond_gr]

Do not confuse CONDUCTOR and TRAIN OPERATOR (read on) What they're not doing: - They're not phasing out the train operators. It's no going to happen.
In Paris line 14 has no driver, no conductor, no train operator, nobody. You can even sit on the first wagon and watch the view! So there is no theoretical problem from removing drivers, of course I suppose the line is still monitored by humans.

and for the fact that many homeless tend to like to live in tunnels.
That's irrelevent, it's not the drivers job to keep homelesses out anyway.

Re:The L train Is a Disaster

[gnovos]

This morning I had one of the most peaceful commutes in quite a while. I attribute it fully to the conductor, urging us at every stop to "Step aside, let others off before you get on. If you can't fit on the train there is another train right behind this one."

Something about what you said struck a chord... I live in Tokyo, and the default, accepted behavior is to step to either side of the door and let people rush off before attempting to get on. I guess I'm so used to this now that I kind of figured it was the standard protocol. So in NY does everyone just crowd the doors, inside and out, side and have at it once they open?

This works in the rest of the world

[wodon]

In London all the underground trains only have a driver, and all works pretty well. The doors open and close by themselves, other passengers will scream at you if you try to hold the doors open (not to mention that they are REALLY strong doors). The train automatically does the announcements without the need for a conductor and you can see when your next train is coming by looking at the electronic boards which show the time tot he next train and it's destination.
The DLR [tfl.gov.uk] line even has driverless trains all computer controlled, it is great fun to sit in the front of the train where the driver normally would be and look out of the windscreen.

Things dont need to be that complex though, when I lived in Brussels the Metro there just had a map of the line hanging from the celing with little LED's along the route, they showed where the trains were so you could guess how long you would have to wait.

You want oyster [oystercard.com] cards next, now they really do rock....

Re:Power Grid Setup

[whimmel]

Actually, in the rest of the world the Engineer is who drives the train. The conductor rides the train and checks tickets and whatnot.

Unless it's a Walt Disney World Monorail, then the driver's title is Pilot (it's not on the ground ;-))

Yes, I hate being called a Conductor.

In london

[Yaruar]

We have a number of automated lines. THe Docklands Light Railway is fully automated and runs really well. At least 3 of the lines on the Tube are computer controlled too with the drivers there to monitor the doors.

However the automation ahd led to some interesting and unforseen difficulties. The automated systems speed up and slow down at the same points in the track it is putting extra stresses on certain sections of track and sleepers which leads to degraded track safety.

Re:Power Grid Setup

[Alioth]

Actually, in the rest of the (non-US) world, it's the Engineer who designs the train. The driver drives the train.

Re:Actually

[I_M_Noman]

Not in New York, here they just operate the doors and make announcments

Only on NYC Transit (subways). On the other MTA entities (LIRR, Metro-North) and NJ Transit they work like they do in the rest of the world -- punch tickets, make announcements, hide when there's a problem...

Re:In london

[Anonymous Coward]

I believe that the Victoria line (London) has the dubious honour of being the world's first automated railway, built in 1967. While it's not strictly computerised (DLR is though), it runs automatically using radio transmitters along the track side. I think the driver just shuts the door and presses "Go" when they're certain that no-one is messing around on the platform. London Underground also has destination & countdown displays on every platform (more or less), does the NY metro not have this then?

Re:Drivers and other crack-heads

[Jeffrey Baker]

The train stops automatically at the next station, or behind the next train, and automatically opens the doors when it is in position on the platform. The driver's only job is to hit the "close doors" button.

Re:Power Grid Setup

[thesalodonkey]

Actually, data is transmitted through the running rails. There is a vast network of transmitters that relay safety and status information not only in NYC but on pretty much any stretch of rail.

Re:Power Grid Setup

[Bastard Operator Fro]

I believe the Engine-er is the person who works the engine on trains.

Which is why the NYC Subway drivers are called motormen, since an electic motor is not called an engine.