OpenLaszlo 3.0 Announced

gse writes "The friendly folks at Laszlo Systems (of which I am one) have just announced the release of OpenLaszlo 3.0. Cool new features in this release: SOLO deployment (compile standalone .swf applications that don't need a proxy server), dynamically loadable libraries, a drawing API, and a bunch of optimizations. Info and downloads are at openlaszlo.org. (OpenLaszlo has been covered before on Slashdot.)"

I'm stunned

[DJayC]

I'm stunned that there is not more of a response to this news here on Slashdot. OpenLaszlo is a great product. You can author some really nice applications using their framework, and it's open source to top if off.

The ability to deploy standalone SWF files is most definitely a direct result of the folks over at Laszlo opening the source. Before, the server side "engine" was, really, their product. You would have to install that in order to serve up a Laszlo application. This is just like Macromedia/Adobe's business model with Flex. When they opened the source, the first thing they wanted to do was be able to publish stand alone SWF files because now the business model no longer centered around their server app.

So how do they make their money now? Well, they've got a few big time clients using their technology, and who better to apply the technology than those who designed it? Laszlo now hopes to generate cash flow by offering professional laszlo development. This is the type of business plan I would love to see more software vendors follow. I really hope Laszlo thrives as a company.. it would really make a statement. It's a great addition to the open source community in an area that has been littered with closed-source solutions (RIA).

Re:I'm stunned

[V. Mole]

I'm stunned that there is not more of a response to this news here on Slashdot. OpenLaszlo is a great product.

OpenLaszlo may well be the killer product I'm looking for. I don't know. Why not?

BECAUSE THE ORIGINAL ARTICLE DOESN'T SAY WHAT THE FUCKING PROGRAM DOES!

There. Now I feel better.

I see it might having something to do with Flash, assuming that '.swf' isn't some project specific extension. I dunno.

Three words

[pjf(at)gna.org]

Flash must die.

Flash is not a replacement, at best it's addition.

[jbn-o]

I dislike how little control users have over how Flash appears and works -- there are very good reasons why I use user stylesheets and set the font size on my browser so I can read text. There's also the problem of not having a free software Flash player which can play the Flash data people commonly use.

Too many times I've seen webpages where Flash is used as a replacement for what is done better with (X)HTML+CSS instead of as an augmentation for (X)HTML+CSS. Even Javascript is sometimes unnecessarily used or no alternative means of access is provided for those who don't have Javascript or don't want to use it because of various security problems.

Re:I'm stunned

[Spy Hunter]

Flash, Java, .NET, XUL, blah. If Laszlo really wants to make a difference, you should target AJAX. Focus less on reinventing the user interface with unintuitive sliding buttons everywhere (hint: users don't want to learn a whole new user interface paradigm). Focus more on the easy fast rich application development with responsive client-side UI code, eliminating the round-trip delay of traditional web apps. Make it possible to develop GMail or Google Maps in Laszlo, easily, and watch the world beat a path to your door. Offer skinned sliding translucent windows rendered at about 1 frame per second in the Flash plugin, and watch the lukewarm reaction from the Slashdot community.

Re:I'm stunned

[Gopal.V]

> Flash, Java, .NET, XUL, blah. If Laszlo really wants to make a difference, you should target AJAX.

You miss the point totally . Flash had the first Ajax (stupid name - because he went crazy and killed himself) like implementation. You should look at XmlSocket [macromedia.com] in flash to realize how good it was .

The real reason why this didn't become that popular was that you needed an expensive flash authoring tool to use it compared to just vi/emacs for Ajax.

Flash is cool , was cool and Adobe willing will remain cool. (and I'm a FOSS geek who thinks animated SVG will never quite make it).

Re:I'm stunned

[Spy Hunter]

When I said "AJAX", I meant "HTML, CSS, and Javascript", not "interactive web application". I meant to specifically exclude all things Flash. Flash is not cool, was never cool and likely will stay uncool, especially at Adobe. There are so many reasons; I can list them if you want.

I agree that animated SVG likely will never make it (especially now that Adobe's SVG plugin has conflict of interest, and Microsoft is never going to implement it). But you're the one missing the point. Vector graphics are not the point (Google maps does just fine without them). Web applications are the point. Animated SVG is irrelevant; it is unnecessary for web applications because they don't need swooshy translucent themed animated unintuitive buttons. Web applications also don't need to look like standard applications with resizable windows and menu bars.

What web applications *do* need is to be like GMail and Google Maps. What web applications need is a solid framework that abstracts away the vagaries of doing cross-browser Javascript/XmlHttpRequest/HTML/CSS, and allows development at a little bit higher level. I think something like Laszlo (or perhaps Laszlo itself) could be implemented on top of AJAX instead of Flash. It wouldn't have vector graphics, but aside from that disadvantage it could be an extremely capable platform. (Actually IMHO lack of animated vector graphics would be advantageous in many situations; it might keep the graphic artists from adding pointless distracting time-wasting animations and ignoring basic UI principles, which is one of my many problems with Flash.)

Question: Flash and open source

[pfafrich]

I'm just wondering what the position of Flash and open source etc. Q1: Is the swf format open? i.e. are their any restrictions on creating clients which read swf or programs which can create swf. Q2: Is it API documented? Q3: Are there patent problems? Q4: are there any good open source alternatives to Flash Player? Q5: Any good open source flash dev tools? Rich