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U.S. Rejects Canadian Rejection of DMCA 870

Posted by timothy
from the spy-vs-mountie dept.
P Starrson writes " Slashdot readers may recall that last month Canadian policy makers rejected the DMCA for Canada. Not so fast apparently -- the U.S. Trade Representative has released the annual Section 301 report which each year tells the rest of the world that they need stronger intellectual property protection. This year Canada is a particular target -- the U.S. plans to conduct a special review of Canadian policies and explicitly rejects Canada's rejection of the DMCA. A good summary on what this means from Canadian law professor Michael Geist."
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U.S. Rejects Canadian Rejection of DMCA

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  • Meanwhile... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by brxndxn (461473) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:02PM (#12400759)
    the American public rejects the DMCA.

  • by MrBigInThePants (624986) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:02PM (#12400761)
    Do you think Bush could leave other countries alone for 10 bloody seconds??

    Isn't screwing your own country up good enough?!
  • Beeing from canada (Score:5, Insightful)

    by anethema (99553) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:03PM (#12400767) Homepage
    The USA can suck my balls if they want us to adopt the DMCA. We dont even want the concessions they have made as it is, never mind the full DMCA.

    While im sure it will eventually happen, I've certainly been calling local politicians and telling them about my feelings towards the DMCA and copyright legislation change.

    The only way to keep things the way they are is to voice to those in charge that this is the way you like it! Come on canadians dont get lazy on this one.
  • As a Canadian... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Robber Baron (112304) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:06PM (#12400786) Homepage
    I say it's way past time Canada and the rest of the world told the US to go fuck itself.
  • And, of course (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:07PM (#12400790)
    The actual citizenry of either country has yet to be asked whether they actually want the DMCA, since most of the people don't even know it exists and probably most of congress doesn't even know it exists, since it was passed by voice vote without anyone in congress actually reading it.
  • The u.s. is in the transition to a wholely IP based economy, the DMCA is their lifeblood to a prosperous future. Log onto cspan sometime and watch the Greenspan-meets-congress videos, he keeps telling them "We need stronger IP laws.." Without any doubt his opinion holds more weight than yours ever will. I don't have much to say to young idealists or anybody with a inkling of hope left except, submit to your masters, it'll be easier.
  • Re:Meanwhile... (Score:4, Insightful)

    by foreverdisillusioned (763799) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:07PM (#12400793) Journal
    That's ok, the DMCA rejects [the rights of] you guys, too.
  • by Phil246 (803464) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:09PM (#12400808)
    How on earth do the bought-and-paid-for senators in the states think they can make laws for other countries - without invading them. America, at this rate is well on the path to destroying itself through either corporate corruption - or alienating the rest of the world against it.
  • by snookerdoodle (123851) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:10PM (#12400832)
    It just meant that Canadian lawmakers are more in tune with the values of the typical United States citizen than are the members of the U.S. Congress and Senate.

    Well, at least in this particular area... ;-)

    I don't think anyone is surprised anymore that our lawmakers write laws that reflect the values of lobbyists. :-(

    Mark
  • by Malicious (567158) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:13PM (#12400848)
    Perhaps if the USA opens the border to Canadian Beef , softwood lumber, and settles all the other open trade disputes Canada could CONSIDER, reconsidering such a bill. But I doubt it.
  • by nagora (177841) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:14PM (#12400858)
    How on earth do the bought-and-paid-for senators in the states think they can make laws for other countries - without invading them.

    The same way the US ones were made: bribery and, er.. well, just bribery, really.

    TWW

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:15PM (#12400865)
    ...that I am sick and tired of America's attempts to tell other countries what to do. When commenting in this thread, please keep in mind that not all Americans feel that we should be so meddling, and only 51% of Americans were willing to re-elect the current administration.
  • Jesus christ (Score:3, Insightful)

    by jb.hl.com (782137) <joe@joe-b[ ]win.net ['ald' in gap]> on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:16PM (#12400875) Homepage Journal
    I'm beginning to think the US government passes more laws outside the US than it actually does inside the US...

    Oh yes, stronger IP laws. Just what everyone in Canada needs and wants.
  • Yankee Go Home (Score:5, Insightful)

    by McGiraf (196030) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:18PM (#12400893) Homepage
    If the US can tell us what to do the we should have a say in their election, and it would probably sound like this:

    Canada rejects Bush.

  • by RollingThunder (88952) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:21PM (#12400923)
    That's exactly what I entered this thread to say.

    They can continue ruining their own country, and we'll run ours the way we want to. We're a sovereign nation that decides it's own affairs, no matter how much they may have difficulty with the concept.
  • Re:NAFTA? (Score:1, Insightful)

    by blueadept1 (844312) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:23PM (#12400937)
    NAFTA! Ha! Good luck with that one. See: Softwood Lumber dispute, Mad Cow dispute... Both illegal under NAFTA.
  • by geomon (78680) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:25PM (#12400958) Homepage Journal
    I guess they should be shaking in their boots now, eh?

    Why do US policy makers assume that every country needs to have the exact policy as we have? One of the founding priciples of US conservatism is the preservation of sovereignty. That principle has meant that the US has ignored the call for a Canadian-style medical system, or the foreign policy goals of the EU. For good or ill, US conservatism demands that countries decide what is in their own best interests and guide their foreign and domestic agendas accordingly.

    Now these conservatives are demanding that Canada abandon sovereignty and model all of their intellectual property laws after the US?

    US 'conservatives' have the intellectual consistency of baby shit.
  • by Goalie_Ca (584234) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:26PM (#12400965)
    I second the notion. They can posture all they fucking want but people up here won't go for it. The politicians don't get lobbied half as aggresively as they do down there!
  • Priorities: China (Score:2, Insightful)

    by phloydphreak (691922) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:29PM (#12400993) Journal
    The exploitation of copyrighted material by Chinese companies is much more detrimental than internet copyright infringment. The funding that is going into attempting to force countries that are marginally complying should instead by spent on those countries which flagrantly break those laws which are _explicitly_ required for the continuation of the creation process.
  • by Colin Smith (2679) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:29PM (#12400995)
    This is really just an exercise in power, the US will back up these strong suggestions with threats of trade sanctions etc.

    The thing that gets me as someone who lives in Britain and recognises the behaviors of the British Empire in the past is that Americans don't recognise that they live in an empire in all but name.

    There seems to be a sort of xeno blindness, nothing outwith the US borders exists and therefore cannot be important. The result being these kinds of strong arm tactics used against sovereign nations. Guess why large portions of the world are antithetical.

  • by JenovaSynthesis (528503) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:33PM (#12401028)
    God I love the arrogance of the US. It is shit like this that shows that the US really is imperialistic. If it cannot invade other countries like Iraq, it tries to subvert the legal system to make the laws echo its own.

    I still do not see why the US even needs the DMCA. There is nothing in that law other than dismantling of fair use rights that is not covered by either pre-existing copyright law and the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. If we do not need it, no other country does.

    And why is Canada such a big deal? You would think they would want a place like China where piracy is rampant to adopt a DMCA before Canada. But then again Chinese courts have not ruled downloading MP3s off the net legal like Canadian courts did.
  • by hype7 (239530) <u3295110@[ ].edu.au ['anu' in gap]> on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:39PM (#12401087) Journal
    I say it's way past time Canada and the rest of the world told the US to go fuck itself.


    damn straight. in particular, it can go fuck itself with it's IP law.

    I can't begin to get over the gall of a country, "reviewing" other countries laws and - get this - rejecting them!! I bet it will now apply political and $$$ pressure until it gets its way.

    American IP law is the US's worst export. What it fails to realise is when the Chinese rise in the next 20 years, it's going to come back and bite America on the ass

    -- james
  • by vistic (556838) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:43PM (#12401115)
    51% of Americans who voted.

    Of course I was in that 49% who voted for the other guy.
  • by PhYrE2k2 (806396) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:43PM (#12401122)
    Canada to join nearly all other developed countries in implementing the WIPO Internet Treaties


    Riiiight- all other developed countries. You'll notice how they stress this like it's the norm and the baseline everyone has. Canada isn't the odd man out, but rather the US is in this case.

    Note most Eurpoean and Asian countries, and even in Canada-like Austrailia, have IP laws nowhere near the stupidity of the DMCA.

    The US is not the norm. The US is trying to impose it's views coming from CORPORATE AMERICA and project them not only on the individuals but also on the individuals in other countries (all 6 billion of them). The DMCA only removes rights from individuals and gives it to corporations.

    -M
  • by jbr439 (214107) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:46PM (#12401149)
    What nerve. The US refuses to honor its own laws and international treaties concerning the softwood lumber issue with Canada (yes, I am in BC), yet insists that Canada implement the draconian DMCA or something similar.

    I hope the government of the day has the balls to tell the US that we refuse to talk about IP until the US honors the NAFTA rulings re softwood lumber.

  • by ZephyrXero (750822) <zephyrxero@yah[ ]com ['oo.' in gap]> on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:48PM (#12401171) Homepage Journal
    It was fine until they loosened the restrictions on corporations. You can thank the lobbiests and lawyers for that. Did you know that corporations are considered "citizens" and have almost all the same rights as a person? Here's a pretty good look at why things are the way they are now [thecorporation.com]
  • by Scarblac (122480) <slashdot@gerlich.nl> on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:50PM (#12401186) Homepage

    Now these conservatives are demanding that Canada abandon sovereignty and model all of their intellectual property laws after the US?

    No, these are not the same conservatives, these are NeoCons, and they have absolutely nothing to do with the founding principles of US conservatism except for using the Replublican Party brand.

  • Get the facts (Score:3, Insightful)

    by PhYrE2k2 (806396) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:56PM (#12401255)
    Mad Canadian Beef. Yummy!


    Get the facts straight! First off, the US has had cases of mad cow that initiated in house. The main difference is that the US quietly handles these issues. Funny how only the rest of the world hears about the problems within US borders.

    The United States' first probable case of mad cow disease was detected in a cow from a farm in Mabton (washington state)
    http://www.mindfully.org/Farm/2003/Mad-Cow-Disease -US23dec03.htm [mindfully.org]
    http://www.theeagleonline.com/news/2004/01/29/News /U.Mad.Cow.Incident.Does.Not.Affect.Au-591617.shtm l [theeagleonline.com]

    Second, Canada handled the situation better than anyone.
    "In May 2003, veterinary officials in Alberta confirmed that a sick cow sent to a slaughterhouse in January of that year had been inspected, found to be substandard, and removed so that it would not end up as food for humans or other animals. "

    And for a view on just how the situation plays out
    "On Dec. 29, 2004, The USDA announced that it recognized Canada as a "minimal-risk region" for BSE and imports of young Canadian cattle would resume March 7, 2005.

    The new classification means the U.S. will not again close its borders to Canadian beef unless there are two or more cases of BSE per one million cattle older than 24 months of age in each of four consecutive years."

    - So the US wont' be as silly for a single cow. With 14 million cattle, that means 28 cows need to have mad cow for them to do that again.

    Mad Beef, Yummy -- fine.
    But don't put the focus on Canada here considering you've had the same problems and we've collectively had less than many parts of the world.

    -M
  • Sovereignty (Score:3, Insightful)

    by famazza (398147) <{moc.liamg} {ta} {onirazzam.oibaf}> on Sunday May 01, 2005 @05:59PM (#12401284) Homepage Journal

    See more at wikipedia [wikipedia.org] here [wikipedia.org].

    How can US government be respected as a democracy if it can't respect its own neighbor's sovereignty?

    It's not only about sovereignty, it's also about democracy; US can't even respect Canadian democracy. If the legitimate democratic Canadian Government decided that DMCA isn't apropriate for Canadian People it's US' duty to respect Canadian Government decision as strongly as it fights for democracy in Middle East.

    It's about time to the US Government to understand that THE WORLD must be democratic, not only countries. It's about time to the US Government understand that it's necessary to respect the laws and the decisions made by the United Nations.

  • Unfortunately (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 01, 2005 @06:00PM (#12401294)
    "We're a sovereign nation that decides it's own affairs"

    Just like Iraq and other countries, right? The only bits of Canada, or any other country that are sovereign are those outside cruise missile range.

  • by JWW (79176) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @06:04PM (#12401334)
    Don't make China out to be the hero anywhere in this. China respects NO ONES IP law. Not American, not Canadian, not European. They will copy anything and everything and sell it back to us for less.

    What will really bite foreign businesses working in China in the ass is when the government marches in and takes all of their IP and tells them to just deal with it.

    China is the far side of the issue. If American bussinesses thing that their CUSTOMERS pose big IP problems for them, the Chinese will really teach them a lesson eventually.
  • Re:And, of course (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 01, 2005 @06:04PM (#12401336)
    yet these are the same people that support the Patriot Act. something that does far more damage to Freedom than any other act or bill ever passed in history.

    REmoving due process for ANY reason is worse damage than 20 Twin tower disasters.

  • by StratoChief66 (841584) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @06:05PM (#12401340) Homepage
    Don't bother, they will just reject our rejection of their rejection of our rejection of the DMCA. Perhaps a simple 'fuck you' is in order.

    This could drive an even bigger wedge between our two countries, but the shit the US has been pulling under Bush makes me wonder why I would care what they think?
  • by Hortensia Patel (101296) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @06:08PM (#12401379)
    Americans don't recognise that they live in an empire in all but name

    Leaving aside the pitfalls of generalizing about "Americans" (something that's becoming increasingly meaningless as that nation polarizes) and confining discussion to the red-staters, I'm not sure the problem is that they "don't recognise" that the US is an empire. It's more that they don't recognise that it's a bad empire. The British Empire wasn't exactly shy about announcing itself, but jingoistic pride, cultural arrogance and a nationalistic media all combined to ensure that its citizens were generally happy about that empire.

    I think the same holds here. Read a topic like this at -1 and you'll find a fair number of posters who like being in the American Empire. They like the "we're number one!" thing, they like the knee-jerk machismo that flows from military adventurism, they really do think they're God's chosen country, and they're perfectly willing to let their leaders trample over a world they see as filled with terrorists, godless communists and spineless Eurotrash.
  • by iSeal (854481) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @06:12PM (#12401422)
    Here's the difference between the US and Canada in Copyright reforms: The American comittee on Copyright Reforms is Sen. Orrin Hatch. He was payed $179,000 in 2004 by the RIAA/MPAA. The members of the Canadian comittee on Copyright reforms, on the other hand, were not given any noticeable contributions by the entertainment industries. For one, corporations are limited into how much they can donate, for another such conflict of interest wouldn't be allowed. So who'se reforms are you likely to believe to be lest biast? The opinion of the side who was payed nearly 200 grand by a party that voices one specific view, or the opinion of the side that wasn't bribed.
  • by epiphani (254981) <<ten.lad> <ta> <inahpipe>> on Sunday May 01, 2005 @06:12PM (#12401427)
    They care about Canadian IP laws for the same reason many americans cite as why canada should just shut up.

    The US and Canada have incredibly tightly integrated economies. BOTH countries export and import 80% of their goods with each other. Mutual dependance.

    The US wants the same laws as often as possible. It makes commerce easier. What if canada suddenly made oranges illegal. We dont grow any oranges up here, so only the importers would be affected. But believe me, some orange producer down in the states would be hopping mad.

    If our IP laws are more lax, it makes canada a better place to do buisness in certain cases. Lost american jobs, lost american revenue. Of course they're pissed.

    Maybe they should fix their IP laws instead of trying to fuck up ours just as badly as theirs are.
  • by linguae (763922) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @06:16PM (#12401463)
    When commenting in this thread, please keep in mind that not all Americans feel that we should be so meddling, and only 51% of Americans were willing to re-elect the current administration.

    This isn't even about Bush, per se. This is about corporations bribing the politicians into passing laws that only benefit Corporate America(TM), not looking out in the interest of its own citizens, and wanting to impose the same corporatist ideology on every other country.

    Give me a break! The Democrats and the Republicans seemed to get bribed at every turn by the RIAA and the MPAA. The DMCA was passed under the Clinton administration, and I heard that not a single Democrat voted "no" on that bill. The RIAA and MPAA are taking away our freedoms piece-by-piece. No, I don't condone copyright infringement, but why must the *AA pass laws that restrict legal fair use (for example, the DMCA)? The DMCA only benefits the RIAA, MPAA, and Disney, and is a major blow to our rights of fair use. Why should the government tell me what to do with my own DVDs? How come I can't legally rip the contents of my DVD to another medium?

    The corporatism here is getting sickening and maddening. Both the Democrats and Republicans have failed at curving this rampant abuse of the government, and most of the citizens seem to be ignorant about all of the rights being taken away. We need to start boycotting the RIAA and MPAA, and never buy a new CD or DVD, purchase online media, download media legally or illegally, visit a movie theater, or do anything else that profits these media cartels until they stop bribing the government. We need to get people to start getting informed about the DMCA and rally average citizens to start writing letters and doing protests against the DMCA and other abuses of our copyright laws.

    Copyright and other forms of "intellectual property" is supposed to "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." What ever happened to "fair use" and "limited times to authors"? Copyright is life + 95 years now (thanks to Disney), and our fair use rights are being trampled over by the DMCA and some other newly passed laws. We need to restore copyrights to what they used to be. This government has gotten too corporate, and we need to make it work for the PEOPLE!

  • by Zenmonkeycat (749580) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @06:19PM (#12401503)
    Uhh, I think the more appropriate statement would be, "The U.S. Officials who support the DMCA can suck my balls." Most of the people in the U.S. who know about the DMCA (and give two tugs of a dead dog's genitalia) don't like the legislation any more than you.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 01, 2005 @06:29PM (#12401599)
    > Both the Democrats and Republicans have failed at curving this rampant abuse of the government,

    Ha, they are both in favor of HUGE government.
    Admittedly, the Democrats want to pay for it now with taxes, and the Republicans want to not pay for it at all (figuring the Jesus will come down from heaven and save the country from bankruptcy in about 20 years) -- but other than that, they're the same, unsurprisingly, as they're bought and paid for by the same companies.

  • by Colin Smith (2679) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @06:36PM (#12401668)
    "It can be said that the sun never sets on the American Empire."

    The problem with any empire is that the sun does inevitably set on it. Eventually the resources required to maintain it become too large, the leaders become corrupt, the people want bigger, more extravagant entertainment and then the barbarians invade.

  • by myowntrueself (607117) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @06:40PM (#12401704)
    "Don't make China out to be the hero anywhere in this. China respects NO ONES IP law."

    Er, that would be *why* they are a hero in this.

    IP law is bunk. Pure, unadulterated bunk and bullshit.

  • by Colin Smith (2679) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @06:57PM (#12401848)
    "I'm pretty sure that China would be glad to take all of Canada's oil currently going to the U.S."

    Speak of the devil...

    http://globeandmail.workopolis.com/servlet/Content /fasttrack/20050415/RENBRIDGE15?section=Energy [workopolis.com]

  • Troubled (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Medgur (172679) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @06:59PM (#12401870) Homepage
    This war of words between Canada and the USA regarding IP has been brewing under the media radar for many years now. Many groups have attempted to filibuster the regression induced by the well-payed USinian lobyists in Ottawa, but they continue to trudge relentlessly onward. I'd like to believe that the many letters I've written, and the many communicae sent by friends and family have had some effect on our MPs, but in my heart I know this is a false hope.

    Our ruling parties, the Liberals and the Conservatives, both have great incentive to adhere to demands from the USA if it may boost trade in key large industries. Whether this is beneficial to Canada is debatable, where your position is based solely on whether you choose to follow the GDP or general quality of life. In the end, like USinian politics, those proposing and promoting the bills often stand to gain from such draconian IP laws, whether it be from personal business or positive spin in the next campaign.

    In a wonderfully Orweillian gesture the WIPO treaties are being pressured to ratification by our own Heritage Minister. She firmly states that initiating the acceptance of these treaties will help to further protect the interests of Canadian content producers. In actuality, this hardly has any direct benefit for Canadian artists and serves to provide a greater influx of cash into large distributors, the sources being litigation and intimidation of the new IP violators. More often than not the distributors are USinian, and will choose to promote artists on a culturally and nationalistically agnostic basis. This is hardly a promotion or protection of Canadian Heritage, and, in my humble opinion, likely serves to further dissolve what exactly it means to be Canadian.

    We have a rich cultural history, with many proud and strong events and persons we can look back upon. Sadly, as these are not markettable to a broad North American audience the distributors have little incentive to invest money in them. The Canadian market is small enough that potentially losing a few Canadians to the CBC over nationalism is hardly an issue in comparison to the net cost of producing content intended for a Canadian audience, rather than simply saturating the market with cheap USinian drivel.
  • by El-Kelvinator (759973) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @07:03PM (#12401901) Homepage
    This just might have stemmed from the Softwood Lumber dispute. And the live cattle ban that the US has in place as well. A 'tit for tat' if you will.

    As for softwood, an International Court has ruled that the US is illegaly charging tariffs on Canadian Softwood lumber crossing the border.
    As for the live cattle ban, what a farce, the border is not closed, Americans are buying the cattle here in Canada, having them processed, and then shipping the products over the border, to their huge profit gains. And dont get me started on the lax USDA' BSE testing. Sad to say, but you Americans are eating some very tainted beef products. Some of you are crazy enough as it is, now you get to sue your beef provider chain. Have fun. Lawsuits work for you, not for the rest of the world. Especially not us Canadians.

    So, how does this lead to Canadian law not recognising the DMCA, well, our asshats think your asshats made a pretty stoopid law. So we wont put into place the same thing. We have laws protecting copyrighted works. nuff said. Copyright theft, is copyright theft. We have laws for that. We don't need the rest of the totalitarian threats behind the Act. Besides, in Canada, its not illegal to download copyrighted works, partly because, that act is not against the law here. It is against the law to upload copyrighted works. And that works for us.


    Much akin to your Patriot Act. What a crock. Its called "Freedom of Speech". Besides, the terrorists we do have here, are probably tax paying citizens anyway, they drive our cabs, our busses, and they clean our offices. We don't have many Mexicans or Puerto Ricans here. Something about the cold...

    It's bad enough that SOX got rammed down our throats. This is just another way for Canadians to say "Not in our Land"
  • Re:Yankee Go Home (Score:3, Insightful)

    by KarmaMB84 (743001) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @07:08PM (#12401949)
    If that had happened in the 1940s, the US would've demolished Baghdad from above :| Too bad the world's ideas of how war should be carried out has our military's hands tied and forced to stand around getting killed by terrorists instead of going out and killing them.
  • Re:NAFTA? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by jbr439 (214107) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @07:10PM (#12401980)
    Even if rejection of the DMCA violates NAFTA, all Canada has to say is that it will be upholding the ruling in the same manner as the US has upheld the rulings on softwood lumber.

    For those that don't know, the US has ignored every, single ruling against it on the softwood lumber issue.

    The US seems to only like free trade when it is in the US's favour. Otherwise, f*** it.

  • by edunbar93 (141167) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @07:13PM (#12402019)
    he US wants the same laws as often as possible. It makes commerce easier. What if canada suddenly made oranges illegal.

    Or what if the US made Canadian beef illegal? Or Canadian lumber? Or Canadian wheat? Well, the last two aren't banned, they're just heavily tarriffed despite a "free trade" agreement between the two countries. But that's not the point.

    America doesn't care about the effect it has on other economies. It just wants its way. And because Canada needs the US more than the US needs Canada, they can use that leverage to force us to change our policies to benefit their industries.

    And in this particular case, American jobs and American revenue aren't lost, because the industries affected are reimbursed by the taxes the Canadian government collects on the blank media people use to copy the stuff that the DMCA is supposed to protect. The RIAA just doesn't like it that way and wants to have laws that force us to buy new copies of the same stuff every time the technology to play it back changes.
  • by natrius (642724) * <niranNO@SPAMniran.org> on Sunday May 01, 2005 @07:16PM (#12402048) Homepage
    IP law is bunk. Pure, unadulterated bunk and bullshit.

    That is ridiculous, and I think it's sad that this got modded insightful. The writers of the American Constitution saw a need to protect creative works, inventions and the like, and I agree with them. If you can't make money off of your ideas anymore, you'd stop trying to think of new ideas because you'd have to get a paying job. People would only invent new things to "scratch an itch" or to accomplish something they needed within their paying job. Sure, that can still lead to amazing things, but in general, I don't think those are the most interesting inventions.

    The problem isn't the notion of intellectual property, it's the current laws out there that need to be fixed. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
  • by Stoutlimb (143245) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @07:17PM (#12402061)
    "What if canada suddenly made oranges illegal. We dont grow any oranges up here, so only the importers would be affected. But believe me, some orange producer down in the states would be hopping mad."

    You mean like how the US made Canadian beef illegal? Or like how the US illegaly made Canadian softwood lumber illegal? Or pork? Sugar?

    It's the US that's abusing the situation. So take your orange analogy and shove it.
  • by bigberk (547360) <bigberk@users.pc9.org> on Sunday May 01, 2005 @07:23PM (#12402122)
    Right now the US economy is walking a rather fine line
    I just wanted to add, if you think this is just a lefty slashdotter doomsday scenario or something, it's time you read this article by Paul A. Volcker [washingtonpost.com], the past Federal Reserve chief before Alan Greenspan. The piece from last month entitled "An Economy On Thin Ice" articulates the warnings many of us in economic circles know; excess credit bubble, dependence on foreign capital; sucking dry 80% of world's savings without producing growth, etc.
  • by KillShill (877105) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @07:28PM (#12402164)
    and thats a bad thing how?

    even the US.AA in the early years rejected the british copyright/patent laws too.

  • by microbox (704317) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @07:35PM (#12402234)
    Maybe they should fix their IP laws instead of trying to fuck up ours just as badly as theirs are.

    Some smart people in the US must know that their IP laws will put them at an economic disadvantage... all they have to do is get the whole world to adopt them, and then the party can continue indefinietly!
  • Re:As an American (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 01, 2005 @07:37PM (#12402245)
    We have a right to protect our investment.
    Not if doing so denies me any of my rights.

    The inevitable conclusion of the effort to make the kind of IP protection you want possible necesssarily requires giving you absolute control over all data, wherever it resides. That is unacceptible.

    The short version is this: America can go fuck itself.

  • by torpor (458) <ibisum@gm a i l . com> on Sunday May 01, 2005 @07:39PM (#12402266) Homepage Journal
    If you can't make money off of your ideas anymore, you'd stop trying to think of new ideas because you'd have to get a paying job.

    did the dot-com bubble not teach you americans anything?

    you CAN'T make money off ideas!!!!!! you need to produce something.

    americans are so high on hollywood hype, do they not know anything about what really puts food on the table, what really counts in the global market? putting up real product, not just "ideas", oh so precious, is the new rule for global trade.

    China is good at that. America is shit at it.
  • by jms1 (686215) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @07:47PM (#12402330) Homepage
    ... is who the US report quotes as having problems with Canada's rejection of the DMCA. Like this quote...

    The U.S. copyright industry is concerned about proposed copyright legislation...

    ... or this one ...

    The U.S. pharmaceutical industry is concerned about certain aspects of the proposed regulations...

    I didn't see anything in the report about "the American PEOPLE" having a problem with Canada's internal policies.

    Speaking as one of the PEOPLE that the US government is supposed to be representing, I'd like to know why they give a flying fsck what "the U.S. {anything} industry" thinks? Isn't it their job to represent the PEOPLE of the United States?

  • typical arrogance (Score:3, Insightful)

    by timmarhy (659436) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @07:53PM (#12402386)
    so now the USA thinks other countries don't get to make thier own laws?
  • by linguae (763922) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @08:03PM (#12402460)
    The American comittee on Copyright Reforms is Sen. Orrin Hatch. He was payed $179,000 in 2004 by the RIAA/MPAA.

    Now that's just ridiculous. There should be a law in the United States banning corporate donations to politicians. There is no way that the average citizen could compete with these big, evil mega-corps. It's like our politicians are all on the auction block, being sold to the highest bidder.

  • by koreth (409849) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @08:06PM (#12402486)
    I agree with that too. Over time I've been moving my retirement savings into foreign investments (mostly Asian, though I like Brazil and a few others too.)

    I'm hardly the first to observe that if South Korea and China decide the US has gotten itself so far in debt that there's no choice but to default on some of the bonds they're holding, they'll sell that debt off and the dollar will go down the toilet. At which point, well, things will suck globally, but they'll suck a bit less for people whose life savings aren't in dollar-denominated instruments.

    At this point I'm happier holding yuan than greenbacks. That was not the case five years ago. But now I'm assuming China will let its currency float in advance of devaluing the dollar; they'd be idiots to stay pegged to a currency they're about to torpedo!

    The prospect of all this saddens me deeply. I love a lot of things about my country and what it stands for (even today, though less so now than it used to.) But patriotic fervor and self-righteousness are no substitute for sound policy and fiscal responsibility, and I'm afraid we've discarded the latter to focus completely on the former.

  • by j0e_average (611151) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @08:07PM (#12402490)
    Remember to keep separate the American citizens from the American Government(TM). The citizens are a fun-loving group, who generally like Canadians, Europeans, Asians, and Australians very much. The latter is a sock puppet for the corporation.

    Sadly, the people haven't been in charge for decades.

    Give us your pity, not your hate.

  • Re:Being from AU (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Tannii (842656) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @09:08PM (#12402924)
    Fight and struggle! Rally the people and presure the governments, you don't want to end up like us do you?

    Full power to Canadian Govt for doing right by the people .. Something Little Johnny forgot to do.

    Keep fighting UK, remind Tony he has more spine than Johnny.

    That Texas cowboy has moseyed on in to my country, don't let him do the same to yours!
  • by Coryoth (254751) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @09:37PM (#12403157) Homepage Journal
    That's a nice theory, and has some merit in terms of motivation, but in terms of practical results it just isn't working. Check the statistics as http://www.bea.gov/ [bea.gov] with respect to international transactions. The US saw a rise in the trade balance on services through the late 90's, but since then imports of services (particularly in the royalties category) have been growing at least as fast as exports. Strange as it may sound the US trade balance in terms of copyright licenses is flattening out, and possibly even starting to sink a little. At a time when the trade balance in goods is completely blowing out that's not a good sign.

    Jedidiah.
  • by jpardey (569633) <j_pardey@ h o t m ail.com> on Sunday May 01, 2005 @09:57PM (#12403289)
    I say tell them to do something that actually matters, eg, ratify Kyoto. Then, maybe I would talk about DMCA.
  • by Catbeller (118204) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @10:00PM (#12403311) Homepage
    At some point, Bushies will have to take responibility for their actions. I'm not taking any bets on how soon.

  • by Maljin Jolt (746064) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @10:13PM (#12403410) Journal
    It's like our politicians are all on the auction block, being sold to the highest bidder.

    That's exactly what we have been taught about your capitalist politicians decades ago in our communist basic schools. And with the clearly visible corruption in our communist regime, we considered it to be just a propaganda. Today I understand all the "virtues" of so called democracy much better.

    Under communism, we had no political choice. But I can never understand, why people living in democracies are selecting total morons as their leaders and lawmakers. At least, you can still leave your country if you wish to, something we who were behind iron curtain could not do without a grave danger.

  • by JohnTheFisherman (225485) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @10:34PM (#12403572)
    Really? Gosh, I thought it was clear that Methanex Corp. ran the entire Canadian government and employed every citizen! But Americans are all a homogenous, monolithic block of interfering anti-Canadian loons with 100% of policy dictated by one trade representative's proposed review, right?

    If you read past the first link (the only one you apparently noticed), you'd see it wasn't "one Canadian firm" in question, either. The point is not "Canada bad, USA good!" but that individuals and corporations from both sides dick each other around. How has this proposed review impacted Canada so far? Ouch, it's costing you $1billion and polluting your groundwater, right?

    There is hardly some helpless victim here being bullied by anyone.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 01, 2005 @10:43PM (#12403655)
    To go hand in hand with your statement

    American Government != America
    Government Officials != Americans
    Corporations != People

    The American government is no longer representative of it's people. Think about the number of executive offices that are appointed by the president with little or no congressional oversite and when required by law approval is rubber stamped. Think about the redistricting that happens that ensures one party receives a majority in the congress and state legislative bodies. Think about the call by the executive branch for the judicial branch and the legislative branch to "stand together" and present a "united front". In addition to that the continual call against so called "activist judges" who would dare to attempt to uphold the constitution.
  • by belmolis (702863) <billposer@nOSpam.alum.mit.edu> on Sunday May 01, 2005 @10:54PM (#12403733) Homepage

    As both a Canadian and an American, my suggestion to the Prime Minister is that he inform the United States that Canada will consider the United States' concerns about intellectual property when the United States conforms in both policy and practice to the Geneva Conventions and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It's one thing to disagree about details of trade policy and the like, but for the United States to make it sound like Canada is a rogue nation that fails to abide by widely accepted standards of decent conduct is outrageous. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!

  • by Pig Hogger (10379) <pig.hogger@NoSpAM.gmail.com> on Sunday May 01, 2005 @11:38PM (#12403993) Journal
    That is ridiculous, and I think it's sad that this got modded insightful. The writers of the American Constitution saw a need to protect creative works, inventions and the like, and I agree with them.
    The writers of the american constitution are spinning in their graves when they see what their orginal idea has been turned into. They never have intended copyright to benefit solely pigopolists.
  • by killjoe (766577) on Monday May 02, 2005 @12:18AM (#12404191)
    I don't think we have any right to expect other countries to pity us rather then hate us when we so gleefully elect religious fundamentalists to power and then cheer them on as they go around laying waste to every thing good, wise and moral.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 02, 2005 @01:33AM (#12404543)
    We know that the DMCA is a **AA law. When it comes to music and motion pictures, we Americans have a trade surplus. This is a case of the **AA using its power over its puppet (the US government) to influence the rest of the world to comply. The fact that the **AA is picking on Canada is deplorable. Canada is a model democracy compared to Corporate America (Boston rocks). If Canada had better weather and college football, I would move there.

    If you think this is the first time the US has used its power to try to influence another sovereign country, open your eyes. Look at how we have treated every communist country. Look at what we did to the Kingdom of Hawai'i (Bill Clinton formally apologized for that one). Look at our treatment of the Native Americans.
  • by Curtman (556920) on Monday May 02, 2005 @01:44AM (#12404585)
    Remember to keep separate the American citizens from the American Government(TM).

    It is the citizens that give their government legitimacy.
  • by mOdQuArK! (87332) on Monday May 02, 2005 @03:56AM (#12405077)
    Sometimes the person who comes up with an idea doesn't have the capital to make it into a product.

    Then they sell the idea to someone who can. Just because they came up with an idea doesn't mean they have the "right" to control how it's used (or to stop anyone who might have come up with the idea by themselves). From a societal-benefit standpoint, it doesn't matter WHO uses the idea - and, by definition, public policy should be made with the resultant societal-benefit in mind.

    "Free" markets should be strictly limited to payment for providing desired goods or services. Unnatural definitions such as "intellectual property" have no place in a free market.

  • Re:Unfortunately (Score:4, Insightful)

    by rxmd (205533) on Monday May 02, 2005 @04:17AM (#12405140) Homepage
    Excuse me, but how is that mutually exclusive? Having enough bombs to level the rest of the world doesn't stop them from levelling you. It's not a matter of who's got more bombs, it's a matter of who presses the button fast enough.

    And in the end, it'll be a draw, of course.
  • by torpor (458) <ibisum@gm a i l . com> on Monday May 02, 2005 @04:20AM (#12405152) Homepage Journal
    The end product is that you end up with less people actively trying to come up with ideas.

    errmm... no. what happens is you get more people coming up with bright idea's, and then working hard as hell in the global competitive sphere to bring them to market.

    whining and crying that 'things arent fair' is so un-american, it makes your argument lose a lot of credibility, in my eyes...
  • by Jim_Callahan (831353) on Monday May 02, 2005 @04:22AM (#12405156)
    In fairness to various pots and kettles, "rogue nation that fails to abide by widely accepted standards" is a pretty good description of every country in the world at one point in its history.
  • by canuck57 (662392) on Monday May 02, 2005 @09:09AM (#12406067)

    Sorry, but I've a sneaking suspicion the rest of Canada puts more money into Quebec than they're "stealing".

    Better still, they send much of what they steal to Quebec.

    Maybe all provinces need to learn to stand on their own two feet, Ontario included. Alberta and others have oil, Ontario has auto and lumber/paper and Quebec has James Bay. Heck, each province has their assets. So why do the politicians like to say: We need the fed money! We think Americans suck! Westerners are red necks.

    The truth is that Ottawa fosters hate of Americans and westerners to take the eye off of their practices. Much the same way Hitler used the jews.

    There is no difference between Americans and Canadians... we live by similar laws (except for Quebec) and we work the same hours and we are often related. And both our governments have similar problems.

    There is more in common between Americans and Canadians than any politician would ever have you believe, be it Bush or Martin.

  • by geomon (78680) on Monday May 02, 2005 @11:21AM (#12407695) Homepage Journal
    I'm forced to note that baby shit is, in fact, remarkably consistent.

    Yes, it is wet, squishy, and stinks.

    Just like the intellectual standards of US 'conservatives'.

Nothing is more admirable than the fortitude with which millionaires tolerate the disadvantages of their wealth. -- Nero Wolfe

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