U.S. Rejects Canadian Rejection of DMCA 870
P Starrson writes "
Slashdot readers may recall that last
month Canadian policy makers rejected the DMCA for Canada.
Not so fast apparently -- the U.S. Trade Representative has released
the annual Section
301 report which each year tells the rest of the world that they
need stronger intellectual property protection. This year Canada is a
particular target -- the U.S. plans to conduct a special review of
Canadian policies and explicitly rejects Canada's rejection of the
DMCA. A good summary on what this means from Canadian law professor Michael Geist."
Meanwhile... (Score:3, Insightful)
For St Peter's sake (Score:4, Insightful)
Isn't screwing your own country up good enough?!
Beeing from canada (Score:5, Insightful)
While im sure it will eventually happen, I've certainly been calling local politicians and telling them about my feelings towards the DMCA and copyright legislation change.
The only way to keep things the way they are is to voice to those in charge that this is the way you like it! Come on canadians dont get lazy on this one.
As a Canadian... (Score:4, Insightful)
And, of course (Score:5, Insightful)
This will only get worse before it gets better (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Meanwhile... (Score:4, Insightful)
and how do the states figure... (Score:5, Insightful)
What It Really Meant (Score:5, Insightful)
Well, at least in this particular area...
I don't think anyone is surprised anymore that our lawmakers write laws that reflect the values of lobbyists.
Mark
We gots us a Bargaining Chip (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:and how do the states figure... (Score:3, Insightful)
The same way the US ones were made: bribery and, er.. well, just bribery, really.
TWW
As an American, allow me to say... (Score:5, Insightful)
Jesus christ (Score:3, Insightful)
Oh yes, stronger IP laws. Just what everyone in Canada needs and wants.
Yankee Go Home (Score:5, Insightful)
Canada rejects Bush.
Re:As a Canadian... (Score:5, Insightful)
They can continue ruining their own country, and we'll run ours the way we want to. We're a sovereign nation that decides it's own affairs, no matter how much they may have difficulty with the concept.
Re:NAFTA? (Score:1, Insightful)
The Canadians Are On Notice? (Score:5, Insightful)
Why do US policy makers assume that every country needs to have the exact policy as we have? One of the founding priciples of US conservatism is the preservation of sovereignty. That principle has meant that the US has ignored the call for a Canadian-style medical system, or the foreign policy goals of the EU. For good or ill, US conservatism demands that countries decide what is in their own best interests and guide their foreign and domestic agendas accordingly.
Now these conservatives are demanding that Canada abandon sovereignty and model all of their intellectual property laws after the US?
US 'conservatives' have the intellectual consistency of baby shit.
Re:Beeing from canada (Score:2, Insightful)
Priorities: China (Score:2, Insightful)
An example of the American Empire (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing that gets me as someone who lives in Britain and recognises the behaviors of the British Empire in the past is that Americans don't recognise that they live in an empire in all but name.
There seems to be a sort of xeno blindness, nothing outwith the US borders exists and therefore cannot be important. The result being these kinds of strong arm tactics used against sovereign nations. Guess why large portions of the world are antithetical.
First Iraq, then Canada, then the World!!! (Score:1, Insightful)
I still do not see why the US even needs the DMCA. There is nothing in that law other than dismantling of fair use rights that is not covered by either pre-existing copyright law and the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. If we do not need it, no other country does.
And why is Canada such a big deal? You would think they would want a place like China where piracy is rampant to adopt a DMCA before Canada. But then again Chinese courts have not ruled downloading MP3s off the net legal like Canadian courts did.
Re:As a Canadian... (Score:5, Insightful)
damn straight. in particular, it can go fuck itself with it's IP law.
I can't begin to get over the gall of a country, "reviewing" other countries laws and - get this - rejecting them!! I bet it will now apply political and $$$ pressure until it gets its way.
American IP law is the US's worst export. What it fails to realise is when the Chinese rise in the next 20 years, it's going to come back and bite America on the ass
-- james
Re:As an American, allow me to say... (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course I was in that 49% who voted for the other guy.
'all other developed countries' (Score:5, Insightful)
Riiiight- all other developed countries. You'll notice how they stress this like it's the norm and the baseline everyone has. Canada isn't the odd man out, but rather the US is in this case.
Note most Eurpoean and Asian countries, and even in Canada-like Austrailia, have IP laws nowhere near the stupidity of the DMCA.
The US is not the norm. The US is trying to impose it's views coming from CORPORATE AMERICA and project them not only on the individuals but also on the individuals in other countries (all 6 billion of them). The DMCA only removes rights from individuals and gives it to corporations.
-M
what about softwood f***ing lumber (Score:5, Insightful)
I hope the government of the day has the balls to tell the US that we refuse to talk about IP until the US honors the NAFTA rulings re softwood lumber.
Re:Being from the USA (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The Canadians Are On Notice? (Score:3, Insightful)
Now these conservatives are demanding that Canada abandon sovereignty and model all of their intellectual property laws after the US?
No, these are not the same conservatives, these are NeoCons, and they have absolutely nothing to do with the founding principles of US conservatism except for using the Replublican Party brand.
Get the facts (Score:3, Insightful)
Get the facts straight! First off, the US has had cases of mad cow that initiated in house. The main difference is that the US quietly handles these issues. Funny how only the rest of the world hears about the problems within US borders.
The United States' first probable case of mad cow disease was detected in a cow from a farm in Mabton (washington state)
http://www.mindfully.org/Farm/2003/Mad-Cow-Diseas
http://www.theeagleonline.com/news/2004/01/29/New
Second, Canada handled the situation better than anyone.
"In May 2003, veterinary officials in Alberta confirmed that a sick cow sent to a slaughterhouse in January of that year had been inspected, found to be substandard, and removed so that it would not end up as food for humans or other animals. "
And for a view on just how the situation plays out
"On Dec. 29, 2004, The USDA announced that it recognized Canada as a "minimal-risk region" for BSE and imports of young Canadian cattle would resume March 7, 2005.
The new classification means the U.S. will not again close its borders to Canadian beef unless there are two or more cases of BSE per one million cattle older than 24 months of age in each of four consecutive years."
- So the US wont' be as silly for a single cow. With 14 million cattle, that means 28 cows need to have mad cow for them to do that again.
Mad Beef, Yummy -- fine.
But don't put the focus on Canada here considering you've had the same problems and we've collectively had less than many parts of the world.
-M
Sovereignty (Score:3, Insightful)
See more at wikipedia [wikipedia.org] here [wikipedia.org].
How can US government be respected as a democracy if it can't respect its own neighbor's sovereignty?
It's not only about sovereignty, it's also about democracy; US can't even respect Canadian democracy. If the legitimate democratic Canadian Government decided that DMCA isn't apropriate for Canadian People it's US' duty to respect Canadian Government decision as strongly as it fights for democracy in Middle East.
It's about time to the US Government to understand that THE WORLD must be democratic, not only countries. It's about time to the US Government understand that it's necessary to respect the laws and the decisions made by the United Nations.
Unfortunately (Score:1, Insightful)
Just like Iraq and other countries, right? The only bits of Canada, or any other country that are sovereign are those outside cruise missile range.
Re:As a Canadian... (Score:5, Insightful)
What will really bite foreign businesses working in China in the ass is when the government marches in and takes all of their IP and tells them to just deal with it.
China is the far side of the issue. If American bussinesses thing that their CUSTOMERS pose big IP problems for them, the Chinese will really teach them a lesson eventually.
Re:And, of course (Score:1, Insightful)
REmoving due process for ANY reason is worse damage than 20 Twin tower disasters.
Re:For St Peter's sake (Score:5, Insightful)
This could drive an even bigger wedge between our two countries, but the shit the US has been pulling under Bush makes me wonder why I would care what they think?
I'm not so sure that's the issue (Score:5, Insightful)
Leaving aside the pitfalls of generalizing about "Americans" (something that's becoming increasingly meaningless as that nation polarizes) and confining discussion to the red-staters, I'm not sure the problem is that they "don't recognise" that the US is an empire. It's more that they don't recognise that it's a bad empire. The British Empire wasn't exactly shy about announcing itself, but jingoistic pride, cultural arrogance and a nationalistic media all combined to ensure that its citizens were generally happy about that empire.
I think the same holds here. Read a topic like this at -1 and you'll find a fair number of posters who like being in the American Empire. They like the "we're number one!" thing, they like the knee-jerk machismo that flows from military adventurism, they really do think they're God's chosen country, and they're perfectly willing to let their leaders trample over a world they see as filled with terrorists, godless communists and spineless Eurotrash.
The difference between US and Canada. (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:For St Peter's sake (Score:5, Insightful)
The US and Canada have incredibly tightly integrated economies. BOTH countries export and import 80% of their goods with each other. Mutual dependance.
The US wants the same laws as often as possible. It makes commerce easier. What if canada suddenly made oranges illegal. We dont grow any oranges up here, so only the importers would be affected. But believe me, some orange producer down in the states would be hopping mad.
If our IP laws are more lax, it makes canada a better place to do buisness in certain cases. Lost american jobs, lost american revenue. Of course they're pissed.
Maybe they should fix their IP laws instead of trying to fuck up ours just as badly as theirs are.
Re:As an American, allow me to say... (Score:5, Insightful)
This isn't even about Bush, per se. This is about corporations bribing the politicians into passing laws that only benefit Corporate America(TM), not looking out in the interest of its own citizens, and wanting to impose the same corporatist ideology on every other country.
Give me a break! The Democrats and the Republicans seemed to get bribed at every turn by the RIAA and the MPAA. The DMCA was passed under the Clinton administration, and I heard that not a single Democrat voted "no" on that bill. The RIAA and MPAA are taking away our freedoms piece-by-piece. No, I don't condone copyright infringement, but why must the *AA pass laws that restrict legal fair use (for example, the DMCA)? The DMCA only benefits the RIAA, MPAA, and Disney, and is a major blow to our rights of fair use. Why should the government tell me what to do with my own DVDs? How come I can't legally rip the contents of my DVD to another medium?
The corporatism here is getting sickening and maddening. Both the Democrats and Republicans have failed at curving this rampant abuse of the government, and most of the citizens seem to be ignorant about all of the rights being taken away. We need to start boycotting the RIAA and MPAA, and never buy a new CD or DVD, purchase online media, download media legally or illegally, visit a movie theater, or do anything else that profits these media cartels until they stop bribing the government. We need to get people to start getting informed about the DMCA and rally average citizens to start writing letters and doing protests against the DMCA and other abuses of our copyright laws.
Copyright and other forms of "intellectual property" is supposed to "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries." What ever happened to "fair use" and "limited times to authors"? Copyright is life + 95 years now (thanks to Disney), and our fair use rights are being trampled over by the DMCA and some other newly passed laws. We need to restore copyrights to what they used to be. This government has gotten too corporate, and we need to make it work for the PEOPLE!
Re:Beeing from canada (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:As an American, allow me to say... (Score:2, Insightful)
Ha, they are both in favor of HUGE government.
Admittedly, the Democrats want to pay for it now with taxes, and the Republicans want to not pay for it at all (figuring the Jesus will come down from heaven and save the country from bankruptcy in about 20 years) -- but other than that, they're the same, unsurprisingly, as they're bought and paid for by the same companies.
Re:An example of the American Empire (Score:5, Insightful)
The problem with any empire is that the sun does inevitably set on it. Eventually the resources required to maintain it become too large, the leaders become corrupt, the people want bigger, more extravagant entertainment and then the barbarians invade.
Re:As a Canadian... (Score:4, Insightful)
Er, that would be *why* they are a hero in this.
IP law is bunk. Pure, unadulterated bunk and bullshit.
Is that the sound of the Goths? (Score:4, Insightful)
Speak of the devil...
http://globeandmail.workopolis.com/servlet/Conten
Troubled (Score:2, Insightful)
Our ruling parties, the Liberals and the Conservatives, both have great incentive to adhere to demands from the USA if it may boost trade in key large industries. Whether this is beneficial to Canada is debatable, where your position is based solely on whether you choose to follow the GDP or general quality of life. In the end, like USinian politics, those proposing and promoting the bills often stand to gain from such draconian IP laws, whether it be from personal business or positive spin in the next campaign.
In a wonderfully Orweillian gesture the WIPO treaties are being pressured to ratification by our own Heritage Minister. She firmly states that initiating the acceptance of these treaties will help to further protect the interests of Canadian content producers. In actuality, this hardly has any direct benefit for Canadian artists and serves to provide a greater influx of cash into large distributors, the sources being litigation and intimidation of the new IP violators. More often than not the distributors are USinian, and will choose to promote artists on a culturally and nationalistically agnostic basis. This is hardly a promotion or protection of Canadian Heritage, and, in my humble opinion, likely serves to further dissolve what exactly it means to be Canadian.
We have a rich cultural history, with many proud and strong events and persons we can look back upon. Sadly, as these are not markettable to a broad North American audience the distributors have little incentive to invest money in them. The Canadian market is small enough that potentially losing a few Canadians to the CBC over nationalism is hardly an issue in comparison to the net cost of producing content intended for a Canadian audience, rather than simply saturating the market with cheap USinian drivel.
Canada/US Relations (Score:5, Insightful)
As for softwood, an International Court has ruled that the US is illegaly charging tariffs on Canadian Softwood lumber crossing the border.
As for the live cattle ban, what a farce, the border is not closed, Americans are buying the cattle here in Canada, having them processed, and then shipping the products over the border, to their huge profit gains. And dont get me started on the lax USDA' BSE testing. Sad to say, but you Americans are eating some very tainted beef products. Some of you are crazy enough as it is, now you get to sue your beef provider chain. Have fun. Lawsuits work for you, not for the rest of the world. Especially not us Canadians.
So, how does this lead to Canadian law not recognising the DMCA, well, our asshats think your asshats made a pretty stoopid law. So we wont put into place the same thing. We have laws protecting copyrighted works. nuff said. Copyright theft, is copyright theft. We have laws for that. We don't need the rest of the totalitarian threats behind the Act. Besides, in Canada, its not illegal to download copyrighted works, partly because, that act is not against the law here. It is against the law to upload copyrighted works. And that works for us.
Much akin to your Patriot Act. What a crock. Its called "Freedom of Speech". Besides, the terrorists we do have here, are probably tax paying citizens anyway, they drive our cabs, our busses, and they clean our offices. We don't have many Mexicans or Puerto Ricans here. Something about the cold...
It's bad enough that SOX got rammed down our throats. This is just another way for Canadians to say "Not in our Land"
Re:Yankee Go Home (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:NAFTA? (Score:5, Insightful)
For those that don't know, the US has ignored every, single ruling against it on the softwood lumber issue.
The US seems to only like free trade when it is in the US's favour. Otherwise, f*** it.
Re:For St Peter's sake (Score:5, Insightful)
Or what if the US made Canadian beef illegal? Or Canadian lumber? Or Canadian wheat? Well, the last two aren't banned, they're just heavily tarriffed despite a "free trade" agreement between the two countries. But that's not the point.
America doesn't care about the effect it has on other economies. It just wants its way. And because Canada needs the US more than the US needs Canada, they can use that leverage to force us to change our policies to benefit their industries.
And in this particular case, American jobs and American revenue aren't lost, because the industries affected are reimbursed by the taxes the Canadian government collects on the blank media people use to copy the stuff that the DMCA is supposed to protect. The RIAA just doesn't like it that way and wants to have laws that force us to buy new copies of the same stuff every time the technology to play it back changes.
Re:As a Canadian... (Score:3, Insightful)
That is ridiculous, and I think it's sad that this got modded insightful. The writers of the American Constitution saw a need to protect creative works, inventions and the like, and I agree with them. If you can't make money off of your ideas anymore, you'd stop trying to think of new ideas because you'd have to get a paying job. People would only invent new things to "scratch an itch" or to accomplish something they needed within their paying job. Sure, that can still lead to amazing things, but in general, I don't think those are the most interesting inventions.
The problem isn't the notion of intellectual property, it's the current laws out there that need to be fixed. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Take your oranges and shove em. (Score:3, Insightful)
You mean like how the US made Canadian beef illegal? Or like how the US illegaly made Canadian softwood lumber illegal? Or pork? Sugar?
It's the US that's abusing the situation. So take your orange analogy and shove it.
Re:As a Canadian... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:As a Canadian... (Score:2, Insightful)
even the US.AA in the early years rejected the british copyright/patent laws too.
Maybe they need others to follow... (Score:5, Insightful)
Some smart people in the US must know that their IP laws will put them at an economic disadvantage... all they have to do is get the whole world to adopt them, and then the party can continue indefinietly!
Re:As an American (Score:1, Insightful)
The inevitable conclusion of the effort to make the kind of IP protection you want possible necesssarily requires giving you absolute control over all data, wherever it resides. That is unacceptible.
The short version is this: America can go fuck itself.
Re:As a Canadian... (Score:5, Insightful)
did the dot-com bubble not teach you americans anything?
you CAN'T make money off ideas!!!!!! you need to produce something.
americans are so high on hollywood hype, do they not know anything about what really puts food on the table, what really counts in the global market? putting up real product, not just "ideas", oh so precious, is the new rule for global trade.
China is good at that. America is shit at it.
What I find interesting... (Score:2, Insightful)
I didn't see anything in the report about "the American PEOPLE" having a problem with Canada's internal policies.
Speaking as one of the PEOPLE that the US government is supposed to be representing, I'd like to know why they give a flying fsck what "the U.S. {anything} industry" thinks? Isn't it their job to represent the PEOPLE of the United States?
typical arrogance (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The difference between US and Canada. (Score:3, Insightful)
Now that's just ridiculous. There should be a law in the United States banning corporate donations to politicians. There is no way that the average citizen could compete with these big, evil mega-corps. It's like our politicians are all on the auction block, being sold to the highest bidder.
Re:As a Canadian... (Score:3, Insightful)
I'm hardly the first to observe that if South Korea and China decide the US has gotten itself so far in debt that there's no choice but to default on some of the bonds they're holding, they'll sell that debt off and the dollar will go down the toilet. At which point, well, things will suck globally, but they'll suck a bit less for people whose life savings aren't in dollar-denominated instruments.
At this point I'm happier holding yuan than greenbacks. That was not the case five years ago. But now I'm assuming China will let its currency float in advance of devaluing the dollar; they'd be idiots to stay pegged to a currency they're about to torpedo!
The prospect of all this saddens me deeply. I love a lot of things about my country and what it stands for (even today, though less so now than it used to.) But patriotic fervor and self-righteousness are no substitute for sound policy and fiscal responsibility, and I'm afraid we've discarded the latter to focus completely on the former.
Re:For St Peter's sake (Score:5, Insightful)
Sadly, the people haven't been in charge for decades.
Give us your pity, not your hate.
Re:Being from AU (Score:2, Insightful)
Full power to Canadian Govt for doing right by the people
Keep fighting UK, remind Tony he has more spine than Johnny.
That Texas cowboy has moseyed on in to my country, don't let him do the same to yours!
Re:Copyright is a substitute for printing money (Score:3, Insightful)
Jedidiah.
Re:As a Canadian... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:For St Peter's sake (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:The difference between US and Canada. (Score:3, Insightful)
That's exactly what we have been taught about your capitalist politicians decades ago in our communist basic schools. And with the clearly visible corruption in our communist regime, we considered it to be just a propaganda. Today I understand all the "virtues" of so called democracy much better.
Under communism, we had no political choice. But I can never understand, why people living in democracies are selecting total morons as their leaders and lawmakers. At least, you can still leave your country if you wish to, something we who were behind iron curtain could not do without a grave danger.
Re:For St Peter's sake (Score:3, Insightful)
If you read past the first link (the only one you apparently noticed), you'd see it wasn't "one Canadian firm" in question, either. The point is not "Canada bad, USA good!" but that individuals and corporations from both sides dick each other around. How has this proposed review impacted Canada so far? Ouch, it's costing you $1billion and polluting your groundwater, right?
There is hardly some helpless victim here being bullied by anyone.
Re:For St Peter's sake (Score:3, Insightful)
American Government != America
Government Officials != Americans
Corporations != People
The American government is no longer representative of it's people. Think about the number of executive offices that are appointed by the president with little or no congressional oversite and when required by law approval is rubber stamped. Think about the redistricting that happens that ensures one party receives a majority in the congress and state legislative bodies. Think about the call by the executive branch for the judicial branch and the legislative branch to "stand together" and present a "united front". In addition to that the continual call against so called "activist judges" who would dare to attempt to uphold the constitution.
Re:For St Peter's sake (Score:5, Insightful)
As both a Canadian and an American, my suggestion to the Prime Minister is that he inform the United States that Canada will consider the United States' concerns about intellectual property when the United States conforms in both policy and practice to the Geneva Conventions and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It's one thing to disagree about details of trade policy and the like, but for the United States to make it sound like Canada is a rogue nation that fails to abide by widely accepted standards of decent conduct is outrageous. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black!
Re:As a Canadian... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:For St Peter's sake (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:For St Peter's sake (Score:2, Insightful)
If you think this is the first time the US has used its power to try to influence another sovereign country, open your eyes. Look at how we have treated every communist country. Look at what we did to the Kingdom of Hawai'i (Bill Clinton formally apologized for that one). Look at our treatment of the Native Americans.
Re:For St Peter's sake (Score:5, Insightful)
It is the citizens that give their government legitimacy.
Re:As a Canadian... (Score:2, Insightful)
Then they sell the idea to someone who can. Just because they came up with an idea doesn't mean they have the "right" to control how it's used (or to stop anyone who might have come up with the idea by themselves). From a societal-benefit standpoint, it doesn't matter WHO uses the idea - and, by definition, public policy should be made with the resultant societal-benefit in mind.
"Free" markets should be strictly limited to payment for providing desired goods or services. Unnatural definitions such as "intellectual property" have no place in a free market.
Re:Unfortunately (Score:4, Insightful)
And in the end, it'll be a draw, of course.
Re:As a Canadian... (Score:2, Insightful)
errmm... no. what happens is you get more people coming up with bright idea's, and then working hard as hell in the global competitive sphere to bring them to market.
whining and crying that 'things arent fair' is so un-american, it makes your argument lose a lot of credibility, in my eyes...
Re:For St Peter's sake (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:As a Canadian... (Score:3, Insightful)
Sorry, but I've a sneaking suspicion the rest of Canada puts more money into Quebec than they're "stealing".
Better still, they send much of what they steal to Quebec.
Maybe all provinces need to learn to stand on their own two feet, Ontario included. Alberta and others have oil, Ontario has auto and lumber/paper and Quebec has James Bay. Heck, each province has their assets. So why do the politicians like to say: We need the fed money! We think Americans suck! Westerners are red necks.
The truth is that Ottawa fosters hate of Americans and westerners to take the eye off of their practices. Much the same way Hitler used the jews.
There is no difference between Americans and Canadians... we live by similar laws (except for Quebec) and we work the same hours and we are often related. And both our governments have similar problems.
There is more in common between Americans and Canadians than any politician would ever have you believe, be it Bush or Martin.
Re:This had to be done. (Score:3, Insightful)
Yes, it is wet, squishy, and stinks.
Just like the intellectual standards of US 'conservatives'.