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Communications IT

NYT on Cell Phone Tower Controversy 481

prostoalex writes "The New York Times discusses the controversy of placing cell phone towers on top of hills, a practice to which many people object. According to the article, people frequently complain about the visual impediment and are afraid that property values will decline or some health damage will be done with radio waves. At the same time, people get quite irritated when proper phone service is not provided by the operators, and the calls keep dropping or coverage is poor outside of densely populated areas. Phone companies also lease the land to place the cell phone tower for $30,000-$50,000, which is attractive to many landowners, but some, like Sammy Barsa from NYT article, find themselves persona non grata in the community."
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NYT on Cell Phone Tower Controversy

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  • Sweet Deal (Score:5, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 01, 2005 @10:02PM (#12403326)
    It's a sweet deal if you happen to own a piece of land that a phone company wants to use for a tower. For whatever reason, they prefer to lease land rather than buy, and they pay pretty well for the priveledge of doing this. My mother has such a piece of land, and it nets her around $1000/month last I heard.

    What really makes the deal sweet though is that the amount of land taken up by the tower is really small, and you're free to do anything else on the land that you want. I suppose what they're really leasing from you is the privlege to put a tower on your property.

    In my mother's case it's a rental property with a fair amount of land, and the tower sits back far from the house. So it doesn't really interfere with the tennants lives, and it basically gives her money-for-nothing every month.

  • by doublebackslash ( 702979 ) <doublebackslash@gmail.com> on Sunday May 01, 2005 @10:05PM (#12403343)
    Ok, lets just get ONE THING F*ING CLEAR:
    Radiation is not like other everyday occurances, either radiation ionizes your molecules/atoms, or it dosen't. It's not like pushing a car down the road, where you will get thre no matter what, its just a mater of time, no. It's more like pushing a car up a hill, either your strong enough, or not.
    Thats is why lab rats get cancer, or other assorted forms of doom, when they are exposed to "Cell phone like radiation", they get a higher dose to 'accelerate' (change the outcome of, whatever) the experiment. If they were given the dose that you recieve from standing a few hundred feet from a tower, or holding a cell phone an inch or so from your brain the rats would have jack.
    Do some research, folks. Better yet, how bout the media do a bit of reporting! Tell folks what I just did, DUMB IT DOWN, make peoiple understand that unless the tests are fair, they mean SQUAT.
    Sorry for all the shouting. False science makes me angry. You should hear me in my programing class.
  • by BrowserCapsGuy ( 872795 ) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @10:12PM (#12403396)
    Here in Coral Gables, Florida (The City Beautiful) there are quite a few cellphone towers disguised as trees. http://www.fraudfrond.com/ [fraudfrond.com]
  • Utility Camo ... (Score:5, Informative)

    by Kozz ( 7764 ) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @10:17PM (#12403445)
    A company named Larson has done exactly as you suggest [utilitycamo.com] for lots of different towers.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 01, 2005 @10:19PM (#12403467)
    Go team slashdot.

    "The towers, sometimes disguised as fir trees, cacti or flagpoles, were once confined mostly to sparsely populated stretches of highway or industrial zones. More are being planted in residential areas as the wireless companies - responding to subscriber demands - race to build their networks for seamless coverage."

    Look at the article to see the pictures of the mentioned cacti and fir tree

    http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/01/business/01tower s.html?ei=5058&en=6871db49a586b2da&ex=1115611200&p artner=IWON&pagewanted=all&position= [nytimes.com]

  • by TimmyDee ( 713324 ) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @10:24PM (#12403499) Homepage Journal
    There's some spammy/spyware like "iWon" thing wrapped in that link. It places a little "iWon" banner at the top of the NYT page, which of course links to some bullshit "iWon" page, which of course probably makes our friend prostoalex a bunch of money.

    I'm not sure what else it does as I'm running OmniWeb on my Mac, but Windows users beware.

    Clean link: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/01/business/01tower s.html [nytimes.com]?
  • In my town, there is a cell tower that looks like a Douglas Fir tree. If you know it is a cell tower, you can tell that it's false, but people usually don't notice it until being told it is a cell tower. Something like -- "do you see something odd on that hill over there?" isn't usually enough. Something like "see that tree next to the _____ and up from the _____, that's a cell tower." That's usually enough to help people pick it out.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 01, 2005 @10:37PM (#12403599)
    The fake tree cell towers I've seen are 1) much taller than the surrounding trees, 2) not shaped like the nearby trees, and 3) regular in shape, unlike real trees.
    For instance:
    http://campus.champlain.edu/faculty/whitmore/img/w ireless/Cell-Tower-Tree.jpg [champlain.edu]

    or

    http://danbricklin.com/log/0f010790.jpg [danbricklin.com]

    or

    http://www.80acres.com/Stupid%20things/stupid_thin gs.htm [80acres.com]
  • by epheterson ( 854771 ) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @11:03PM (#12403787) Homepage
    I read an article in Wired Magazine, i believe, that showed some examples of disguising cell phone towers, the most popular model was a large tree, hidden in a batch of trees, you wouldn't know it's there!
  • by prostoalex ( 308614 ) on Sunday May 01, 2005 @11:18PM (#12403870) Homepage Journal
    which of course probably makes our friend prostoalex a bunch of money.

    No, it doesn't, NYT articles linked from iWon don't require registration and login.
  • Re:smokestacks (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday May 01, 2005 @11:42PM (#12404012)
    I spend a few years in site acquisition for cell phone companies. One part of the job was helping to design a site that (1) would be approved by the land owner - most of whom really didn't care what it looked like since they were getting what seemed to be money for nothing -- and (2) would be appoved by the local zoning jusrisdiction. We came up with our fair share of pine trees, and palm trees and antennas hidden in boxes on buildings, mostly to make the zoning people happy. For the most part, our sites consisted of antennas mounted on the wall at the top of the building and painted to match. I've pointed them out to people before, all of whom were amazed to find out they were cell sites. I've even pointed out towers -- not disguised, just 30 foot monopoles or lattice towers. Most people told me that they had driven past them for years and had never noticed them before. The truth of the matter is that most people look straight ahead at eye level, not 30 feet or 100 feet in the air. I really think they wouldn't give a damn if the city zoning people didn't send out notices of impending sites. If you drive over 10 miles in any city, I guarantee that you will pass a minimum of 15 sites and won't have the faintest idea that they were there.
  • by Jumperalex ( 185007 ) on Monday May 02, 2005 @12:18AM (#12404190)
    You are kidding right? Where do you think cell phones get the signal from? You know the voice you hear talking to you when you put the phone to your ear? Where do you think that signal comes from? Could it be the tower perhaps? Or is it pulling the signal out of the ether?
  • by man_ls ( 248470 ) on Monday May 02, 2005 @01:14AM (#12404471)
    Uniform fields don't do anything bad to you but alternating ones do.

    The technique of applying a high-intensity magnetic pulse to a human's brain to produce a neural disconnect is called Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transcranial_magnetic _stimulation [wikipedia.org]

    Fascinating stuff, really.
  • by jjon ( 555854 ) on Monday May 02, 2005 @06:04AM (#12405400)
    ... and all sysadmins write YY-MM-DD, to get it sortable.

    ... and all sysadmins with clue write YYYY-MM-DD (or just YYYYMMDD if they can't be bothered to type more) so the sorting worked across Y2K and will work across Y2.1K.

  • by ifwm ( 687373 ) on Monday May 02, 2005 @08:18AM (#12405796) Journal
    You know, I like that.

    From now on, instead of calling those who object to antennas "luddites" I'll call them art students. Wonderful euphemism.
  • by SagSaw ( 219314 ) <slashdot@mmoss.STRAWorg minus berry> on Monday May 02, 2005 @08:22AM (#12405816)
    Here's some free clue, lemming: any kind of electromagnetic radiation is made of photons. Yes, exactly what goes for visible light, goes for any other wavelength.

    True.

    There is no such bullshit threshold where above X watt it's ionizing, under X watt it's not ionizing. If a single photon can cause a transition in an atom or mollecule, it will. That's the only either-or condition.

    Also mostly true. Whether or not a particular form of "radiation" is ionizing has more to do with the amount of energy each particle carries. This is related to the frequency of the radiation, not the amount of power behind the radiation source. More power produces more photons, not faster protons.

    Electromagnetic waves within the band of frequencies generally referred to as "radio frequencies" are not ionizing. This does not begin to occur until you reach somewhere in the ultra-violet range.

    RF exposure is a interesting area. AFAIK, however, there is no conclusive evidence that radio frequency waves cause any harm at athermal power levels.
  • by Pauli ( 72610 ) on Monday May 02, 2005 @08:37AM (#12405894)
    You need to learn some physics as well. There is a difference between ionizing and non-ionizing radiation. Yes, you are correct, the power level is not what determines the difference, but that doesn't mean that *all* photons can cause ionization. There is something called the photoelectric effect. Below a certain frequency threshold (depends on the material somewhat, but is all in the visible or higher) a photon does not have enough energy to ionize material. Therefore, microwave photons are not going to ionize anything at 1 milli-watt or 100 watts. The primary way that microwave radiation is thought to cause damage is by localized heating, and therefore the intensity of the radiation does matter. Would you rather keep your hand in warm water for 1 minute or boiling water for 5 seconds? You claim that the tests performed are fair and done by people who understand what's happening. Mostly you are right, but some tests have been done by biologists who know little about physics and have applied the wrong models for radiation dosage in their studies. Yes, if you microwave the crap out of a mouse, it will be damaged. No, that doesn't mean that the same damage will happen at a lower intensity over a longer period of time.
  • Re:New ebay auction. (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Monday May 02, 2005 @08:54AM (#12405998)
    Read the article. It said $60k per year, not $50k per month.
  • by spotteddog ( 234814 ) on Monday May 02, 2005 @10:35AM (#12407100) Journal
    You forgot to mention the interaction cross section.
    Either the photon has enough energy to be ionizing (for a particular atom or molecule) or it does not - that is true. The important part is if that particular reaction will happen. The interaction cross section gives the statistics to tell you how common that particular reaction is (and therefore how likely it is to happen at a given density of photons and atoms/molecules). "Pumping more watts" does indeed make a difference if the statistical probability of the interaction is more than 0% and less than 100%. The other alternative is to increase the number of particles the photon passes through, thereby increasing the chance the interaction will happen.
  • Factoids (Score:3, Informative)

    by KaiBeezy ( 618237 ) <kaibeezy&gmail,com> on Monday May 02, 2005 @10:35AM (#12407108)
    Having been a leasing and zoning consultant on cell towers a while ago, here are some factoids:

    - The fake tree approach is made difficult by the fact that the towers need to be extremely stiff. The antennas are tuned to radiate very precise flat lobes with minimal back/up/down-scatter. Even a bit of flex ruins the pattern. That's why the flagpoles and trees look so ungainly and out-of-proportion.

    - Camouflage - fake trees, fake flagpoles, fake chimneys, etc. - are ungodly expensive. You can make a fake chimney, but it has to be out of fiberglass sculpted to match the building. There can be no internal metal frame which would block the signal, and even sharp interior corners of the fiberglass panels were rejected by the RF engineers. When you try to blend something into a building facade, differential weathering of exposed surfaces makes the antenna show up anyway, and you have to keep sending out painters to reapply the "make-up". $$$ The trees have to be made out of something that will stand up to weather and look OK for many years. Pine needles (fake trees are almost always "pines") in front of the antennas have to be designed not to scatter the signal. Who wants to climb the pole and replace branches? $$$

    - Overly tall poles are rare. The higher the pole, the more other cells that pole can "see", the more interference. You only see really tall poles or towers in very flat areas where the RF engineers can spread things way out. In even modest topography, the coverage area per pole is surprisingly small. This is exacerbated, as pointed out in the article, by the rising demand for "in-building coverage" which requires much stronger signals.

    - The best solution I was never able to implement was one which strung a series of small antennas along existing power/phone pole lines. Planners in the rich suburbs were much more amenable to this kind of thing, and the tech exists somewhat, but negotiating an agreement among the several utility companies who own the poles and right-of-ways jointly proved infuriating to the the (unbelievably impatient and fractious) cellphone companies.

    - My advice: If you're rich and you're about to get a tree tower giving you the finger from the highest hill in your otherwise pristine town, hire a consultant to negotiate a deal with your utility companies to let the wireless carriers string tiny repeaters down your streets. If you make an alternative available, the wireless company pretty much has to take it.
  • by Obfuscant ( 592200 ) on Monday May 02, 2005 @01:09PM (#12409191)
    Pumping more watts, i.e., more of those photons per second, doesn't change that. There is no such thing as needing 100 photons to cause a transition. Either _one_ causes it, or any amount doesn't.

    Ummm, as someone who spent several years dealing with atomic spectroscopy in college, I can tell you that you are wrong. There are two photon transitions, and even three, four, etc ones. My PhD work was based on two-photon ionization of sodium (and a few other atoms). Smack sodium with "orange photons" (D lines), and then with a UV photon, and bingo, they're ionized.

    The 'cross-section' for multi-photon events is smaller than for single ones, typically, because both photons need to be there almost simultaneously, so yes, there is a difference between having a small number of photons and a large number -- the latter being more likely to cause a transition. And even with single photon events, the more photons you have the more likely at least one is going to cause a transition, especially for some of the smaller cross-section events.

    And, of course, the more photons, the more atoms that are likely to absorb something, even if all it does take is one to have some effect. You could easily survive one single photon event somewhere in your body; you wouldn't survive a billion of them quite so easily.

    So, summary: it's not one or none, and more is worse.

  • by negative.logic ( 880128 ) on Tuesday May 03, 2005 @09:58PM (#12427994)
    FYI, Cingular uses GSM as well. The interesting one to look into is how Sprint & Nextel are getting along - their services are completely different.

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