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.gov.au Guide to Open Source Software 144

Posted by timothy from the stop-paying-redmond dept.
kieronb writes "The Australian Government Information Management Office has recently released "A Guide to Open Source Software for Australian Government Agencies". Surprisingly, it actually appears to have been written by someone with a clue, and provides quite a balanced overview of what F/OSS is and how it differs to proprietary software. Choice quotes: "Sourcing OSS solutions is a new and less understood area for Government Agencies. As a recult, it often seems to involve higher risk. As open source solutions become more mainstream and agencies gain expertise in evaluating and deploying them, this perception of risk should subside."; "Access to source code is, however, valuable to agencies by virtue of the economic flow-on effects that accrue when multiple vendors offer competing products based on the same technology. Access to source code also reduces the risk of vendor lock-in.""
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.gov.au Guide to Open Source Software More

.gov.au Guide to Open Source Software

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  • About bloody time Australia (Score:5, Funny)

    by __aawfbm2023 ( 870942 ) on Tuesday May 03, 2005 @04:09AM (#12417700)
    Finally we don't look like a bunch of flaming drongos.

  • just in case.. (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    PDF Mirror [nyud.net]

  • Government views on F/OSS (Score:5, Interesting)

    by nhnfreespirit ( 809462 ) on Tuesday May 03, 2005 @04:12AM (#12417708) Journal
    It is good to se that some governemts are actually begining to consider the potential benefits of using F/OSS software. I susspect that this is a trend that will increase dramatically over the next few years. As a few govnernments sets sucessful examples of F/OSS deplyment others will follow!

    Luckily not everybody buys into the FUD.

    - nhnFreespirit
    • You should be modded +5 naieve. I hear Microsoft.com.au is going to be making a press release tomorrow.
    • This has been happening for a while now, in different countries. Unfortunately, governments seem to have difficulty making the reality in low-level department branches match up with their official national policies. Branches in the UK still actively demand Microsoft Windows, despite policies of equal consideration for open source, for example.
      • >Branches in the UK still actively demand Microsoft Windows,

        'the fuck you care?
        If that's what they need to do their work, so be it!
        In country where I live, I'd hate to see them learning GNOME or messing around with OpenOffice import/export filters instead of doing their fucking jobs 'cause when I'm paying someone's salary I wanna see them work. Productively.

        >governments seem to have difficulty making the reality in low-level department branches match up with their official national policies

        That's n

        • 'the fuck you care? If that's what they need to do their work, so be it!

          Well, ignoring your ill manners:

          1. They needed no such thing for the project. It was a case of a client-server website, that could have been done in standards-compliant HTML and in fact would have been better for it.
          2. This is MY government. As a result of choosing an unnecessarily limited solution, they not only locked in themselves (ie, my public services), but also every company that works for them, and possibly contractors and s

  • Government Spending (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fgl ( 792403 ) <daniel@notforsale.co.nz> on Tuesday May 03, 2005 @04:13AM (#12417713) Homepage Journal
    Personally, I don't see how any government can in good conscience spend money on a solution, when there is a free, standards based alternative.
    • You have to convince them first that the costs are lower in the long term. That's the selling pitch for microsoft these days. "Buy from us TCO of OSS is much higher"

      What usually annoy me even more is govs using proprietary format to publish public data! You need a pdf reader or word to read a public document or worse gov websites that do not work properly without Java or Flash or even IE.

      This is mainly a problem with small cities' and towns' websites and especially tourists' offices more than with the

      • Thats the thing, how can paying fees year after year to get "must have" upgrades (& pay for the additional hardware to run it) be considered cheaper than a permanently free option that is perfectly extensible & likely to run well on the same hardware for much longer.
        • Actually, the answer lies somewhere between the Dilbert principle and "Yes, Minister".

          If you are a manager of a pile of shit, the only thing better is a BIGGER pile of shit. If you can save money, it means that your slice of the pie is reduced next year. Both in relative and absolute terms.

          A bigger department with more money is what a manager wants. More money means more kickbacks from those you throw it at.

          Saving money is dangerous to personal and professional status. F/OSS doesn't stand a snowflakes ch
        • Suppose I offered you a free pedal bike which would never need repairs or maintenance for your 50 mile daily commute.

          Would this ultimately prove to be better value for you than buying a new car every few years, paying insurance and petrol, etcetera?

          Probably not - you don't have time to cycle 50 miles every day, you don't want to get wet when it rains, et cetera. So the pay solution is better than the free one. Can easily happen. MS would like to convince you that training people to use OSS is expensive, t

      • You have to convince them first that the costs are lower in the long term. That's the selling pitch for microsoft these days. "Buy from us TCO of OSS is much higher"

        That should actually be a more or less unexisting argument for a government. It may be considered, but should be nowhere near major priority, and the Peruvian government seems to have well understood this fact [theregister.co.uk].

    • Support is not free. User training is not free. IT training is not free. Making all your other applications play nice, integrate into websites, case management, workflow management, document management and so on isn't. Exchange and integration with other departments, end-users and subcontractors isn't. Custom development isn't. And by that I mean everything from huge internal applications to simple VBA macros.

      Maybe there's money to be saved in the long run. But in the short run, the current solutions are c
      • Saying "Everything around the code is not free" is at least somewhat true for MS products as well. Support for MS products is definitely not free. Nor is IT training. Few IT staffers are set for life with their current skill set. Had I the choice of IT staffers trained to fudge workarounds in windows, and IT staffers trained to code problem fixes in Linux, I'd take the fix, even if it cost a little more.

        And I've often wondered how much IT time and money could be saved if we trained users in the first pla
      • This is a government. Support, user training and ID training is, effectively, free in this case. It's not with companies, but with a government you have to delicately balance imports and exports, and spending millions on software *AND* support is just stupid when you can get it without having to import anything (local employment for support is just reinvested into the economy). The Howard government is particularly good at this which is why they're staying in power. Add to the fact that local support pa

      • Support is not free. User training is not free. IT training is not free. Making all your other applications play nice, integrate into websites, case management, workflow management, document management and so on isn't. Exchange and integration with other departments, end-users and subcontractors isn't. Custom development isn't. And by that I mean everything from huge internal applications to simple VBA macros.

        Support, training, and custom development is not free. But neither is it cheap from a vendor.

    • Personally, I don't see how any government can in good conscience spend money on a solution, when there is a free, standards based alternative.

      Because the "free, standards based alternative" isn't as good, or costs more ?

    • Personally, I don't see how any government can in good conscience spend money on a solution, when there is a free, standards based alternative.

      I fully agree that this may not be the right time or place for a government to spend, and as others have pointed out, free software doesn't necessarily mean free. That aside, though, excessive government spending is not unusual and it's not always unjustified. I think the situation's at least slightly more complicated than you make out, however.

      In tec

  • Hang on a sec.. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday May 03, 2005 @04:18AM (#12417739)
    They approved a licence that is not open source and branded it as "open source". Read the following:

    http://www.zdnet.com.au/news/software/0,2000061733 ,39190311,00.htm [zdnet.com.au]

  • Someone please clue in the rest of the gov'ts (Score:5, Interesting)

    by El Cubano ( 631386 ) on Tuesday May 03, 2005 @04:24AM (#12417764)

    Access to source code also reduces the risk of vendor lock-in.

    MS bashing aside, this is the real issue. If you like MS software and it does the job for you, then go ahead and use it if that is what you want. The problem I have is when some government agency makes their public record information available only in Word or Publisher format. (I know OOo does word, but that is not the point). Once governments push for truly open data interchange standards, industry will follow and the sky is the limit.

    Simply look at the history of telecommunications and the early years of the automotive industry before things like ITU and SAE standards were around. It was a dismal place for consumers and businesses. That is the current state of the IT industry. It is a patchwork of incompatible and proprietary lock in devices.

  • OSS as only acceptable choice ? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by moz25 ( 262020 ) on Tuesday May 03, 2005 @04:24AM (#12417765) Homepage
    I think that at some point, an organization as big as a country's government should consider itself in a good position not to accept vendor lock-in, where the cost savings are just part of the equation. So yes, it will probably catch on. This demand is already being recognized by vendors, considering MS' shared-source program.
  • Erm... is anyone else having trouble reading this is xpdf? I just get random letters and punctuation everywhere. Gv is fine, though.
    -ReK
  • Brazil has done this a while ago already. Nobody never mentioned anything !!!!
    you can find a lot of stuff in http://www.softwarelivre.gov.br/documentos/ [softwarelivre.gov.br]
    Several documents go way back to 2003 !!!!

  • The U.S. government has been using & making OS (Score:5, Interesting)

    by HamOpMW ( 879501 ) on Tuesday May 03, 2005 @04:57AM (#12417871)
    I'm sure everyone knows who developed SELinux? Surpise... NSA! The FCC as well has been using at least 4 distos of linux for quite a few years, and not just for their severs either.
    I also know that my local city govenment (Bakersfield, CA) is using Firefox. (although they still leave shortcuts for IE). To further make my point... quit assuming that US govenment agencies are not considering OSS. Even Redmond,WA (until recently) was using linux servers. I would love to know how many MS employees have Firefox on their desktops.
    What other TLA's are using OSS/Linux?
  • but Acroread 7.0 locked up on the pdf (again!).

  • Typical (Score:4, Funny)

    by gowen ( 141411 ) <gwowen@gmail.com> on Tuesday May 03, 2005 @05:31AM (#12417979) Homepage Journal
    Is it any surprise that a nation descended from the worst convicts and criminals England could throw away would eventually align itself with Open Source Software, well known throughout the world as a transparent price-fixing scam... :)

    • Re:Typical (Score:3, Insightful)

      by ashridah ( 72567 )
      Yes, because America is so free of their own criminal descendants, being a former penal colony of England itself. You people have just had 200 more years and a crapload more immigrants from other countries to hide it with.

      ash

      • actually (Score:2, Informative)

        by dingfelder ( 819778 )
        Actually, the US was not a penal colony. Only one state (Georgia - and only the upper, non-coastal area at that) had a few ships (from 1732 to 1776) of almost entirely banished debtors, but that does not equate to a generalization about the country as a whole like you tried to present it.

        Contrast that small influx of people to the Australian system where 162,000 criminals were imported.

        Interestingly, the purpose of this lone penal colony was actually not to get rid of criminals (like the australian migra

  • State Governments Still Lagging Behind (Score:4, Interesting)

    by __aawfbm2023 ( 870942 ) on Tuesday May 03, 2005 @05:43AM (#12418016)
    Particularly in the education sector. As a student at a Queensland State School, I have no other choice than to use Windows boxes, with Word and Internet Explorer. Not because it's easier for the admin to set up (and let's face it, most school admins are a bit dim), but because Education Queensland has a contract with Microsoft to teach me about Microsoft products. We get advertisements about special deals on Office, frequent assignments (in the junior school) centred around PowerPoint and our ANZAC day ceremony was nothing more than two "Presentations" and a trumpeteer. Why is it that the Liberal (not actual liberals) government is buying into Open Source, while Labor is siding with Microsoft?
    • Why is it that the Liberal (not actual liberals) government is buying into Open Source, while Labor is siding with Microsoft?

      Because these kinds of reports are prepared by Public Servant underlings (who are often liberal) not the Liberal (conservative) political powers at the top of the government. If any high-ranking Liberal politician got wind of this, it would be killed in an instant, at the insistence of Microsoft.

      • I disagree. It's all about money - the Liberals run the country like a company. I was talking about this in another post I did refuting someone talking about support et al being expensive in Linux. The point is with any software the main costs are support, yet the main difference here is with Microsoft software the money goes directly to America, while with OSS the support costs are directly reinvested into Australia's economy.
        • The point is with any software the main costs are support, yet the main difference here is with Microsoft software the money goes directly to America, while with OSS the support costs are directly reinvested into Australia's economy.

          But this is inconsistent with your comment about the Liberals runnning the country like a company. If they were being rational, and only about cost/benefit ratios - then why do the Liberals have their tongue wedged so far up Bill Gates' arse? there's no way the Liberals would r

    • Well ish. Microsoft has agreements and the state school system is done for. Though the private schools are looking at getting away from Microsoft. They are being shy of open source but many are working away at them to at least test a change. :) And if we get them to change public schools will follow. I'm currently pushing PHP/mySQL over ASP/Acess in schools in qld and working on getting Frontpage dropped (because it is rubbish). Plus some other projects. :) There is hope!

  • Headache (Score:4, Interesting)

    by eric.t.f.bat ( 102290 ) on Tuesday May 03, 2005 @05:46AM (#12418023)
    Bloody hell. The day I skip work with the flu and a kitchen-shelf-related near-concussion, the agency gets slashdotted. I'm glad I'm not looking after that site -- just four or five other ones run by AGIMO. I wonder if they're still up... yep. Phew!

    I can report that I've been using PHP, Perl, the Sablotron XSLT parser and other FOSS tools in the service of AGIMO for the last couple of years. I even develop in Emacs. AGIMO and the AusGov in general are quite amenable to open source s/w. They even have no particular objection to me open-sourcing the tools I've produced at work, like the XBlurb text parser and the Xenolith site engine -- not that I have, since neither of them is particularly interesting, but the willingness is there.

    Meanwhile, AGIMO is getting in bed an awful, awful content mismanagement system, which I'm doing my best to avoid. It's not all good news. But it's a long way from a single vendor, thank the gods.
    • What are the downsides to their content management system? I was looking at it very seriously last weekend ( http://matrix.squiz.net/ [squiz.net]), and although I was surprised by the licensing terms, the features are incredible--I think the only other OSS project currently offering anything comparable is Plone, although I'd be glad to be corrected. Just don't say Mambo or Xaraya or anything else at http://www.cmsmatrix.org/ [cmsmatrix.org] or http://www.oscom.org/matrix/index.html [oscom.org] that I've already investigated. Our current (costl

      • Ye gods. I just had a look through the MySource Matrix site, and... well, going purely by the ludicruous tiny-unreadable-text-image buttons and the spelling and grammar errors all over the place, I'd say that it looks like crap. :)

        Their "license" is even sillier. I hope it's not accepted as a valid "open source" license by OSI, that compulsory-copyright-acquisition clause is insidious and nasty.

        Plone... yeah, Plone is pretty weird. Powerful, quite flexible, and as long as you don't want to do anythin

  • I was in Canberra just yesterday doing an install of software that can (and does in this case) run on on opensource base.

    According to the person I shared a cab with the ATO (Australian Tax Office) is a big M$ shop with an almost permanent staff of visiting Redmond Monkeys(tm).

    Yeah it's hearsay, but, you know, my tax dollars at work...

  • "balanced overview" ... oh really? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    Whoever called this a balanced view wasn't too careful in reading the article. Later on, it just reads like MS FUD.
    "... however, liability in open source is still a glaring issue in comparison to proprietary counterparts, with most licenses including the popular GPL explicitly disclaiming any warranty and liability on behalf of the authors."

    • Re:"balanced overview" ... oh really? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward

      Whoever called this a balanced view wasn't too careful in reading the article. Later on, it just reads like MS FUD.

      What would you propose the document said instead? "There is nothing notably wrong with OSS. You should all use OSS, because it is obvious that OSS is better than propietary solutions. You don't need facts."?

      I call zealot - open source is generally a good thing and I support it, but ignoring the facts is as bad as (if not worst, as you would be a hypocrite) a mindless closed-source advocat

      • Whoever called this a balanced view wasn't too careful in reading the article. Later on, it just reads like MS FUD.

        What would you propose the document said instead? "There is nothing notably wrong with OSS. You should all use OSS, because it is obvious that OSS is better than propietary solutions. You don't need facts."?

        I call zealot - open source is generally a good thing and I support it, but ignoring the facts is as bad as (if not worst, as you would be a hypocrite) a mindless closed-source advo

    • So how is that untrue?

      If the OSS package screws up and loses your data, then you can't do anything.

      If the MS package screws up and loses your data, then you _might_ be able to get some recompense, although in practice you'd better be a big company willing to spend a lot on landsharks.
      • So how is that untrue?

        If the OSS package screws up and loses your data, then you can't do anything.

        If the MS package screws up and loses your data, then you _might_ be able to get some recompense, although in practice you'd better be a big company willing to spend a lot on landsharks.


        MS's recompense is capped at $5.

  • Send me the money! (Score:3, Insightful)

    by inflex ( 123318 ) on Tuesday May 03, 2005 @06:57AM (#12418257) Homepage Journal
    What I'd really love is if the Australian Government would make more grants available to its local software industry.

    There's a lot of adverts on TV and in the paper about the government caring about "small businesses" (hahaha, sorry, I'm laughing already) and wanting local "innovation" - I say it's a load of bollocks. I've approached several different government departments about getting grants/loans/funding/support for extending my existing software business (of which over 90% of its income is exports!) and all they ever end up doing is either dissapearing in the night or saying "sorry, you're too small" or "sorry, you're too successful".

    Paul.

  • Hooray, but... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by aybiss ( 876862 ) on Tuesday May 03, 2005 @07:00AM (#12418268) Homepage
    While I do agree with the sentiments of the very first post...

    As a programmer and hardware salesman/repairman I've seen and dealt with open source as well as MS solutions in both the home and office, long and short term.

    I will say that the price of Microsoft software is pretty outrageous, almost the same as the hardware if you want the whole shebang. (Then again, try buying enough MYOB functionality to run a shop, that will set you back a pretty penny :-o).

    Some free software is fantastic, in fact in many cases the free stuff is superior in various ways.
    Some users will NEVER get the hang of Open Office. "It's just all too differenty to Word".

    It's good to see a worldwide push towards this sort of software model because it will drive prices down and functionality up. ... ... but I can ring Microsoft 24/7 and talk to someone who will sort me out with basically anything on Windows, Office, the Internet... ... (ellipses are cool) ...

    The question still remains whether or not these government departments (or anyone) will benefit in the long term. One thing I can tell you is that in Australia getting some guy to fix your XP box will cost about $35/hr whereas a really hopeless Linux administrator will cost about $75. In a 'regional' area like Newcastle you'll have a hard time finding a guy who can install Debian.
    ("Debbie who?")

    I think it will depend on what these people are doing, and how often they normally have to call the 'computer guy' (me).

    this.mod(-2, "RAMBLING");

    Aaron.
    • In a 'regional' area like Newcastle you'll have a hard time finding a guy who can install Debian. ("Debbie who?")

      Um, this is just plain dumb? Have you ever been to Newcastle? It's a fair sized city - or are you suggesting the people in these user groups haven't heard of Debian? Newky Uni Group [newcastle.edu.au], Central Coast UG [borgs.net]
      • Newcastle is the 8th largest city with approx 300 000 people or probably much more, around 400 000 - the latest census was four years ago.

        It'd most definitely have quite a few linux admins, especially attending the uni of Newcastle.

        source [citypopulation.de]
    • One thing I can tell you is that in Australia getting some guy to fix your XP box will cost about $35/hr whereas a really hopeless Linux administrator will cost about $75.

      Why do you think techs love Linux so much, if not for this reason alone? Makes your life easier through lack of licensing encumberance, AND diverts budget from Microsoft to Payroll. How can we not love it?
    • >the long term. One thing I can tell
      >you is that in
      >Australia getting some guy
      >to fix your XP box will
      >cost about $35/hr whereas a really hopeless Linux
      >administrator will cost
      >about $75. In a 'regional'
      >area like Newcastle you'll
      >have a hard time finding
      >a guy who can install Debian.
      >("Debbie who?")

      This does not surprise me at all. Australia is a wonderful place to live in a great many respects...but from the perspective of all things IT, living in this country is a source
  • They're throwing their software overboard!

    For those not following the constant stream of bullshit coming from Canberra, this is a half-arsed shot at the claim that won the Liberals the previous election: "They're throwing their children overboard".

    Jokes aside, the federal government doesn't have a shred of social conscience in them, and a small donation from Billy G will put an end to this lunacy. Mark my words.
    • Not really, many government organisations have been using Linux and F/OSS for may years now, only difference is there's now an "official" guide to help people out. It's not going to mean that every government department will switch 100% of their systems over, but help provide information which will allow them to make the best choice. A donation from Mr Gates won't change a thing.

      For those who haven't worked in an Australian government IT section before, it's a different world to the private industry. T

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