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Sun Developers Refute OpenSolaris Vaporware Claims 282

Posted by CowboyNeal
from the long-time-coming dept.
daria42 writes "It looks like an anonymous post on OSNews.com claiming OpenSolaris is vaporware was the last straw for two frustrated Sun Microsystems developers. They have responded furiously on their official Sun blogs, saying that they are currently working 'feverishly' on the project, and that it was taking so long because of the need to get rid of legal encumbrances to releasing the code. 'OpenSolaris certainly exists,' Sun kernel developer Alan Hargreaves says on his Sun blog. 'You only have to speak to anyone involved in getting it out there. There are a lot of us out there who both do and do not work for Sun.'"
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Sun Developers Refute OpenSolaris Vaporware Claims

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  • by stealth.c (724419) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:25AM (#12450020)
    Is it clothing?
    • I think you just planted the seed for a marketing joint venture for fashion designers and porn producers abound.
      • Clothing that is bio-degradable, activated by human sweat. You wear it, and after an hour, it starts disappearing. The ideal gift for people you either really like, or really don't.
        • IPV4 shortages (Score:3, Informative)

          by stoborrobots (577882)
          Sig Reply
          --
          Shortage of IPv4 addresses? lynx -dump http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-spac e [iana.org] | grep "IANA - Reserved"


          Whoa - that's freaky... No wonder there's no real incentive to go to IPV6.... :-)

          Although to be fair, thats only 89 class A's (or should I say, "/8"s) which means that it represents only 35% of the total address space. We don't have enough room to double - and with the exponential growth in network-capable devices, the doubling time is steadily getting shorter...

          FWIW, a good re
          • Yes, but a Class A address reserves the entire range AA.0.0.0 to AA.255.255.255 for a single customer.

            Unless someone can prove that they desperately need 16 million plus individual IP in the near future, they are not going to get a class A address.
            Instead, the customer will be allocated a range of class B addresses, with each address giving 65536 hosts (BB.BB.0.0 to BB.BB.255.255).
    • Re:"Vaporwear"? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Daniel Ellard (799842) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:26AM (#12450030)
      Thank you, slashdot editors.

      • Don't you get it, you're supposed to pay them to get to catch these kinds of errors in the stories, before they hit the front page. They just push "accept" or "reject" and then (in theory) watch the daddypants@ -address for warnings.

        Now there's a business model.
    • Hmmm must be one of those e-clothing stuff i've seen on technology news.

      And it's SUN-powered! :D Where do I get one?
    • Is it clothing?
      That's what the consultants told the Emperor.

      ...and a child said: "Mommy, why is the man with the crown naked?"

  • Stuff that matters (Score:4, Insightful)

    by fembots (753724) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:26AM (#12450026) Homepage
    Seriously who would need to refute claims like that? The sooner they get this thing out, the sooner the rumors will vaporize automatically. The rest is just a waste of time.

    Tell me which one would you believe more - Microsoft claiming that they're working on patches to fix some exploits "as we speak", or they're asking users to download the patches now?
    • by liquidpele (663430) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:45AM (#12450144) Journal
      How the hell did you get Insightful? They are working on it, it's not exactly hello world...
      I can certainly believe they are having a tough time trying to scrap through and legalize their code for it after this whole SCO crap. Give them a break, if I was working on something and people kept annoying me about it, I'd be sure as hell tempted to quit and give them the finger.
      • "Give them a break, if I was working on something and people kept annoying me about it, I'd be sure as hell tempted to quit and give them the finger."

        If I was them, I'd *first* do all the legal stuff, then decide what to release, *then* announce and release it at the same time. Sun, instead, has opted to announce, and then announce again, and keep that up for a year or so, then announce again, then release some code that isn't really Open Solaris, and then get some devs to "respond furiously" about being b
        • by Anonymous Coward on Friday May 06, 2005 @09:00AM (#12450237)
          bugged for code that was promised over a year ago

          You are obviously not familiar with corporate marketing. Or, for that matter, with marketing in general. Do you get mad at George Lucas because he promised Episode III almost five years ago (when he started Episode I)? Do you get mad because they started marketing it a year ago? Do you get mad because they started to release teaser trailers a couple of months ago? Do you get mad because they started running real trailers a few weeks ago? Shouldn't they just keep quiet about the whole thing and just release the trailers when the movie is done and out?

          Of course not, they have to create buzz to let people know what is coming and to build an audience.

          Sun didn't promise to release the code a year ago, they announced they would be releasing it. They've been pretty consistent in saying that it would be end of Q2. There's not been any reason to doubt that it will happen when they say.
          • They've been pretty consistent in saying that it would be end of Q2.

            Yes, but Q2 of which year? My bet is on 2014.

          • Of course not, they have to create buzz to let people know what is coming and to build an audience.

            They're creating a buzz to keep customers on Solaris. Perhaps they shouldn't be surprised when people--often their competitors--create a counter-buzz to remind people that there are open source operating systems out there and that this one isn't out there and may never be out there. (And we've seen enough promised and expected programs disappear before release or slip release dates that we shouldn't flat out
        • You are NOT them, and I doubt the developers did the marketing. Sun is notorious for the left hand not knowing what the right is doing, so cut them some slack. I also doubt they promised it with a date, or at least one that's not already past, so lets get off our high horse *dismounts* and admit we don't know much about 1) the situation over at sun 2) marketing 3) ninja chickens.
          • Actually Sun did promise it by the first of the year.

            then in december it became June.

            June is still possible, though My bet was for August 2005.

            Lucas promised episode III after I and II,

            Sun has been promising Open Solaris for the year, but they have also prmised it in the past, and then withdrew those sentiments.
            • So they've pushed it back less than a year?
              That's hardly "vaporware" yet, give me a break.

              Now let me rant a little. They are, for all practical purposes, giving away thier code. What is the deal with the open source community becomming a bunch of beggers and choosers nowadays? I hear this kind of whining all the time, asking for new features and faster releases. Don't like it? Program it yourself then.
        • And while you were working on it, you could listen to all the moaners at Slashdot telling you to open source it as it would be a good idea.
      • Sure, the smarmy comment that set these guys off and launched the tirades ("Show us the code or quit mentioning it") was probably un-called for. That's not the point. The point is someone, either the submitter, or the Sun guys in thier blogs don't know what Vaporware means.

        Source: The Jargon File [catb.org]
        vaporware: /vayprweir/, n.
        Products announced far in advance of any release (which may or may not actually take place).

        OpenSolaris IS vaporware at this point, and nothing is going to change that accept a
    • "There is no OpenSolaris," read an anonymous post on operating systems news Web site OSNews.com. "Show us the code or quit mentioning it."

      To refute this they have gone ahead and released a few lines of code....

      #include <stdio.h>

      Thats as far as they can go right now until the legal issues are cleared up though.

  • by gowen (141411) <gwowen@gmail.com> on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:27AM (#12450037) Homepage Journal
    The more time you spend "responding furiously" to "anonymous posts on OSNews.com", the less time you're spending actually being productive.

    You'd be better of ignoring the cynics, the nay-sayers, and the anonymous blowhards, and continuing doing something productive.

    Arguing on the internet is like ... yadda, yadda, yadda.
    • by tka (548076)
      which is different of what you are doing now? You're arguing how they should do it..

      It's not like they are in a big flame war, they are just stating what the status is currently.
    • by MrMickS (568778) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:45AM (#12450148) Homepage Journal
      Move along, nothing to see above. The parent rather than being informative is merely making a cheap shot.

      There are many examples wherein an oft repeated untruth is more widely accepted than the reality. What is so bad about people putting their comments into their blogs? Oh, I get it.. if they were real open sores developers then they would only have time for the project. The rest of life would be as nothing to the all encompassing goal of making it work.

    • The more time you spend "responding furiously" to "anonymous posts on OSNews.com", the less time you're spending actually being productive.


      I suspect that the wrong people are being fingered here. I only have rumors to go on but I would suspect a large part of the delay is due to the PHBs. They have to develop complicated spreadsheets, write tons of emails, give approvals to other people's approvals, take twenty seven 8 x 10 color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of e
  • osnews... (Score:2, Interesting)

    by Freggy (825249)
    Hey, give these guys a bit of time, will you? Sun developers, don't take it too personally, osnews is known for being the trolling site bu excellence in free software land.
  • by zeromemory (742402) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:31AM (#12450061) Homepage
    While I'm inclined to believe that Sun is really try to open up the source to Solaris, the fact that they've only been able to put up a website (which notably has more links to press releases and news articles than source code) and the source for DTrace in the months since they've stated their Great Plan to open-source Solaris, it's no wonder that members of the community are calling an open-source Solaris vaporware.
    • Even in Sun there are anti-open-source elements (and even Micro$oft users). Plus it took a lot of work by those lawyers in the first place to protect Sun's IP. It made sense then and it makes sense now. Look at what happened relating to SCO. A few months isn't a big deal, I would rather wait a while and get it free of entanglements. SCO happened because somebody got careless or looked careless.
    • by owlstead (636356) on Friday May 06, 2005 @11:56AM (#12451727)
      Knowing Sun, they are not going for a "it barely works" first release. These guys are quite serious about maintaining correct code. This is one of the things that OSS does *not* excel in particularly.

      People are always screaming at Sun to open source things (e.g. Java) but I wonder if the software quality would remain at the same high level as it is now. The good thing of Open Solaris is that drivers will be hacked, and Sun could take advantage of that. Let's hope it won't screw up their version management.

      From what I've seen, solaris is a very high quality, stable operating system. The only crash I ever saw from Solaris machines at the university was related to the floppy drive cable, which messed up communications inside the sparcstation.
      • by HiThere (15173) * <charleshixsn AT earthlink DOT net> on Friday May 06, 2005 @01:02PM (#12453019)
        You say this as if Java were of exceptionally high quality, but having used Java, Python and Ruby I would rate Python and Ruby fairly high, and Java somewhat below.

        I'm noy claiming that Java doesn't have it's advantages. It has a several year head start, so if it didn't have ANY advantages, that would speak quite poorly of it. But haveing used all three my preferences are Ruby, Python, Java in that order.

        OTOH, Ruby needs to work on diagnostic error messages, and needs more work on it's libraries, so for some projects I'd prefer Python (or Python + Pyrex). I've never done anything for which I would find Java a better choice, though I'm sure such projects exist. (And I'm also sure that some would place Perl up in this selection, but I've never used it, and so can't speak to its virtues and vices.)

        There are people who scream for Sun to "Open Source" Java, but having seen the licenses that they chose, I'm just as happy for them to leave it closed, so that others can develope various different Java compilers. (And that also says how anxious I am for OpenSolaris. Yes, I consider it vaproware, but this doesn't bother me at all. It fits the definition of vaporware. Sometime, after its release, then it won't fit that definition any more, but for now it does.)

      • Knowing Sun, they are not going for a "it barely works" first release. These guys are quite serious about maintaining correct code. This is one of the things that OSS does *not* excel in particularly.

        You're right: a perfect first release isn't the way most Libre projects proceed. They put together something that shows how good it could be, if only it were complete, and worked, then release it as version 0.0.1, and get some help.

        Sun seems to be trying to release a completed masterpiece. No help wante

  • by asterix_2k1 (781702) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:32AM (#12450065)
    twelve thousand monkeys furiously coding for 3DRealms posted that Duke Nukem Forever should be out anytime soon...
    • Re:In other news.. (Score:2, Insightful)

      by jgardner100 (559892)
      Yes but Duke Nukem is actually past it's release date. I can't believe that we are wasting time calling something "vaporware" before it's release date. Make /. look a little bit biased you konw.
      • Open Solaris was promised for in June of last year for novemember 2004, then it became January, 2005 then June 2005.

        Sun has got a good track record so far.
  • What about a sample? (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Vo0k (760020) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:32AM (#12450069) Journal
    Following the standard FOSS policy "release often", release some parts of the system that are ready - some demon, some apps, and keep adding. Linux wasn't built in a day, and the first versions required Minix to compile it, it was a long process of creating it. Why not release OpenSolaris piece-by-piece, so people interested in it could start working on the non-encumbered parts?

    Imagine this: I'm running commercial Solaris. I have some app provided by the system, that does the work in a realy kludgy way, with some of my custom wrapper scripts to let it work at all. I know I can fix it and make it work as it should with a few simple changes to the source of the app. I don't need whole OS. I need sources of this one single component. And they lay there on the harddrives of SUN employees, ready to release, waiting till some completely different parts are finished, and in the meantime I lose $1000 a day because the kludge doesn't do its job well enough. So why won't they release it?
    • by Anonymous Coward
      and in the meantime I lose $1000 a day because the kludge doesn't do its job well enough. So why won't they release it?

      Then you pay for a support contract - you'll save your money in no time.

      They don't *owe* you OpenSolaris. Let them do it in their own time.
    • That may or may not be a good idea, but do you think it would result in people bitching at them any less? It's not like an anonymous poster at OSNews has a burning need to look at Solaris' scheduler code.
    • by blastwave (757518) on Friday May 06, 2005 @09:23AM (#12450364)

      It will get released when everything is ready.

      I don't work for Sun but I have been in the OpenSolaris [opensolaris.org] pilot from Day One and I can tell you that I have been working like mad with it as have others. Myself [blastwave.org] and James Dickens [blogspot.com] worked night and day over the past weekend to build the OS on an E4000 as well as a LX50 machine for both enterprise class implementations and server room work. You can see the results of the workstation build at Blastwave.org [blastwave.org] and you need to watch James Dickens [blogspot.com] blog as well as mine [blastwave.org] to see progress that happens OUTSIDE of Sun. Not to mention the PowerPC port project at BlastWare [blastware.org] which will also make progress when some other bits are in place. There are partnerships in place to work on the PowerPC port and GENESI [pegasosppc.com] is behind this as well as others.

      Power is a big deal folks. Think of OpenSolaris on your IBM big iron also.

      So go make a coffee and relax. Its coming real soon now.

      Dennis Clarke
      Director Blastwave.org
      http://www.blastwave.org/ [blastwave.org]

    • Imagine this: I'm running commercial Solaris. I have some app provided by the system, that does the work in a realy kludgy way, with some of my custom wrapper scripts to let it work at all. I know I can fix it and make it work as it should with a few simple changes to the source of the app. I don't need whole OS. I need sources of this one single component. And they lay there on the harddrives of SUN employees, ready to release, waiting till some completely different parts are finished, and in the meantime
    • Release a sample? That's a great idea. Maybe it should be some flagship feature behind Solaris 10. Like DTrace [sun.com]? Which was released open-source in January [slashdot.org]? You are a marketing genius.
  • what month is it? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Daniel Ellard (799842) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:34AM (#12450077)
    OpenSolaris is supposed to appear in July. Did I oversleep today, or isn't it still May?

    It's a bit unfair to start calling something vaporware two months before the scheduled release.

    (I don't work on Solaris/OpenSolaris, so I have no special knowledge about the project, except that I know people are working are working on it.)

    • Slashdot as a community seems to have the opinion that if the announcement of something isnt accompanied by that something straight away, then its classed as vapourware, purely because slashdot bases its opinions on the workings of the opensource community, and that is completely unfair. If I announce an opensource project, I can immediately give anon read cvs access to the tree, regardless of whether theres anything in there. Sun cant do this tho, they have announced OpenSolaris to essentially placate
      • Slashdot as a community seems to have the opinion that if the announcement of something isnt accompanied by that something straight away, then its classed as vapourware,

        It's tiring to hear all the noise about how great it's going to be, especially since we've seen many things be promised and never delivered. Perhaps we're a little cynical, but it's deserved in a lot of cases.

        One of the favorite stunts a company has to attack its competitors is to announce that it will have what its competitors have now r
    • Until it's released it's vaporware. Vaporware is something announced, with no real stuff available. Open source Solaris fits this description nicely right now.

      If it takes until July to get ready, what was the point announcing it so early ?

      Markus

    • It's a bit unfair to start calling something vaporware two months before the scheduled release.


      I guess that is why it was called "vaporwear" instead.

    • "OpenSolaris is supposed to appear in July. Did I oversleep today, or isn't it still May?

      It's a bit unfair to start calling something vaporware two months before the scheduled release. "

      Why is it being called OpenSolaris? We know Solaris exists. Is it being called OpenSolaris because it is to be open source Solaris?

      If so, the Solaris part may exist now, but the open part doesn't. I noticed something about legal encumberances to releasing now... All closed promoters please note the problems you get into u
    • It's a bit unfair to start calling something vaporware two months before the scheduled release.

      True. But, given that we're currently seven months past the originally-scheduled November 2004 release, and five months past the then-scheduled January 2005, such unfairness is fortunately not occuring.

      Not that I don't have sympathy for the developers, but the wait has been more than twice as long as the time originally promised.
    • Yeah, but you have to remember that this is the Open Source Community. People who upload every buggy, unstable, alpha version of every piece of code they write to public CVS servers and then blog about it have a really hard time understanding that saner more intelligent people might prefer to actually stick to a schedule and only release the code when it's ready for use.
  • by dpbsmith (263124) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:39AM (#12450105) Homepage
    So what's the big deal?

    Why not take some substantial CHUNK of partly-finished code, some chunk for which the licensing issues HAVE been resolved, slap on a disclaimer about it being pre-alpha, buggy, etc, and post it somewhere?

    If it's open source, there shouldn't be Apple-Steve-Jobs-like issues about maintaining secrecy until the actual moment of release.
  • by scarhill (140669) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:39AM (#12450109) Homepage
    From the site [sun.com]:
    The individuals who post here work at Sun Microsystems. The opinions expressed here are their own, are not necessarily reviewed in advance by anyone but the individual authors, and neither Sun nor any other party necessarily agrees with them.

    Sounds about as official as a Slashdot post to me.

    We all benefit when companies allow and encouragew their employees to blog. Calling blog posts "official" may sex up a /. article, but isn't really accurate.
  • by bigtallmofo (695287) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:40AM (#12450110)
    "There is no OpenSolaris," read an anonymous post on operating systems news Web site OSNews.com. "Show us the code or quit mentioning it."

    Who gets infuriated by anonymous comments with no substance at all?

    You shouldn't spend too much brain power responding. The proper response is to respond anonymously with some stock comebacks:

    "Says you!"
    "Your mom!"

    That'll learn'em.
  • by Threni (635302) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:41AM (#12450123)
    > There are a lot of us out there who both do and do not work for Sun

    Wow! Quantum programmers!
    • Wow! Quantum programmers! So, may if we put them in a box hooked up to a poisonous gas tank...
    • by Anonymous Coward
      Wow! Quantum programmers!

      Not any more, jerk. You changed their employment status by observing it!
    • Well, Sun pays them, but doesn't actually get any work out of them.
      Kinda like around here :-) It's a variant of the Heisenberg principle. You can know exactly what we're doing, but we'll spend all our time preparing status reports and PowerPoint (oops, OpenOffice) presentations and defending our decisions. Or we can actually do productive work, but you'll have no idea what it is until it is done.
  • by justins (80659) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:43AM (#12450131) Homepage Journal
    "Vaporware" refers to software which the publisher never intended to release, news of which was intended to have an effect on the market.

    Slipping on your release date would make just about every software product "vaporware", you retards.
    • Yes, vaporware does mean something. But your definition is by no means the absolute truth. Many software projects that were very much intended to be released never make it out the door for many reasons (usually poor management) but they are very much vaporware.

      As many others have said, Duke Nukem Forever was actually meant to be produced. They really tried (and supposedly still are) but it is a perennial favorite in Wired's vaporware awards. Why? Because it's vaporware...even though it was originally
  • There are a lot of us out there who both do and do not work for Sun.

    Well obviously they have been working hard, since their brain cells have been overworked, causing them to produce Zen sentences like this.

  • Correct English (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Morosoph (693565) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:50AM (#12450169) Homepage Journal
    Sun Developers Refute OpenSolaris Vaporwear Claims
    'Refute' here should really read 'Deny': the proof is yet to come.
    • Re:Correct English (Score:4, Insightful)

      by eviltypeguy (521224) on Friday May 06, 2005 @10:31AM (#12450874)
      No, part of the proof is already here in DTrace, since it is is an almost inseperable part of Solaris.

      Additionally, part of the proof is already here in that over 30 some pilot teams already have OpenSolaris such as blastwave.org, and so on.

      Finally, their announcement said it was to be released in Q2 of this year. Q2 isn't over yet...

      Really, the trolls are getting tiring.
  • by nemaispuke (624303) on Friday May 06, 2005 @08:50AM (#12450175)
    then you would know that that the guy who posted is a known troll and despite the efforts of Alan and other Sun employees who monitor OSNews this guy was still "foaming at the mouth". In fact one of the trolls posted his "parting shot" was to call Solaris users "nazis"! I think all of the posts in question have been pulled, because I could not find them.

    The problem with OSNews is that it seems to attract the "bottom feeder" users who have little real experience and tend to bitch and whine like children rather than to respond with well thought out arguments and present facts. I have caught people using FUD and outright lies to support their "positions" that Linux is better than Solaris. Well see ...

  • by DrXym (126579) on Friday May 06, 2005 @09:00AM (#12450234)
    Being that vaporware is a term for long announced but unseen software projects. I wouldn't be too put out by someone making such a statement. As soon as the thing is released, such remarks will no longer be required.

    Of course the cynic in me might suggest that Sun preannounced the effort far too early, hoping it would sabotage enterprise adoption of Linux. And encourage more people to try out Solaris 10, even if Solaris 10 & Open Solaris are not the same things.

  • Sun announces Open Solaris

    Before scheduled release, Anonymous Coward, siting no evidence, no previous examples, claims it's vaporware.

    Well gosh, that's certainly news to me. I mean come on. Sun is the one with its reputation on the line. Some idiot who doesn't even identify himself, provides no evidence whatsoever that Sun is being misleading, and that's a big deal? Who cares.
  • and they said that the reason it's taken so long was that they had to buy some IP that they'd previously licensed but couldn't release. They're in the process of finalising that now.
  • I was asked to join the pilot because of my Gentoo Portage on Solaris idea a year or so back.
    • by turgid (580780) on Friday May 06, 2005 @09:45AM (#12450510) Journal
      Yes, well, I know it exists because I worked for Sun until I was RIF'd in February. This place is full of anti-Sun bigotry, hatred and lies. It's kind of ironic, because despite Jonathan Schwartz's mouth, Sun is very Open Source and Free Software freindly. It's just been getting a bit pointy-haired recently.

      Anyway, it's not my problem any more, thank goodness.

    • Can you put it up for download?
  • by bout (128020) on Friday May 06, 2005 @10:09AM (#12450695)
    Please note that OpenSolaris code will come out in stages.
    For details: Click here [tinyurl.com]
    And here [tinyurl.com]

    --Eric Boutilier [sun.com]

  • I remember... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    When NeverWinter Nights came out, it only had a Windows version. Originally it was slated to have versions for MacOS, Linux, and Windows, at the release, in the box. I bought it anyhow, but there were some (vocal) Linux people who pre-ordered it, and were very upset.

    Still, BioWare tried to make good on their promise to those people by at least eventually releasing a Linux port of the game (but not the toolset). However, this took them quite some time, and in the meantime, some people were very upset due to
  • It is still going to be under that vile license of theirs. If you ask me that is worse than nothing.
  • Start small, pick a package that is smaller than the whole kernel and that is likely to be close to 100% sun code (e.g. a shell or a system utillity like ls or mv or something, or mabie the sun as or ld or cc)
    and open that.
    Opening these smaller-than-the-whole-box-and-dice-but-complete packages would show the community that Sun are genuinly committed to OpenSolaris.
  • Maybe they are waiting for Longhorn to be released as part of their agreement with Microsoft? What exactly was all that about anyway besides "I'll stop my lawsuits, if you stop yours Bill."
  • Despite having released some open source software, Sun also has renegged on promises in the past and misrepreseted proprietary software as "open source". Sun's management has also been publicly attacking open source and free software.

    Of course, with that history, people aren't going to believe them until a complete Solaris source tree under a certified open source license sits on an external server somewhere and compiles into a working system.

    (I still fail to see why anybody even cares about an open sour
  • by lw54 (73409)
    There is no OpenSolaris.

    Show us the code or quit mentioning it.
  • by justins (80659) on Friday May 06, 2005 @11:40AM (#12451475) Homepage Journal
    I actually didn't know the official release date until I saw this, I guess I don't obsess about release dates as much as some:
    http://www.oetrends.com/news.php?action=view_recor d&idnum=425 [oetrends.com]

    So, don't hold your breath but fairly soon, you will all be able to start bitching about the existence of an abhorrent competitor to Linux which you will never even consider using, rather than bitching about the nonexistence of an abhorrent competitor to Linux which you will never even consider using.

Programmers do it bit by bit.

Working...