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Google The Internet Businesses

Google Steps Up Fight for the China Market 182

Posted by samzenpus from the google-google-google dept.
gaanagaa writes "News Sources are reporting that web services leader Google Inc. has won a license to operate in China and has bought a Web address as it battles Yahoo Inc. in the world's second-largest Internet market. The U.S. Web services giant, which makes its money from searches, advertising and other services, is hiring staff with the aim of opening an office in the country this year, according to several sources within or close to the company. A person familiar with the matter told Reuters the company was planning to open an office by the end of this year, most likely in Shanghai, and was building up a country team to target corporate customers for advertising sales."
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Google Steps Up Fight for the China Market More

Google Steps Up Fight for the China Market

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  • How will Google's indexing be restricted? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by daveschroeder ( 516195 ) * on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @10:55PM (#12505916)
    Given China's record so far on internet censorship [wikipedia.org], will Google have to cooperate with the Chinese government, even as it operates physically within China and targets Chinese citizens, on what can and can't be indexed and offered for search to Chinese citizens?

    Will Google's presence in China hasten the free flow of information, or end up encouraging the Chinese government to reactively restrict even more?

    There's no question it's a lucrative market financially. The question is how much companies - even the "Don't be evil"-Google - will capitulate to the government's demands for censorship to guarantee a share of the spoils.

    • Re:How will Google's indexing be restricted? (Score:5, Informative)

      by TheRedHorse ( 559375 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @11:02PM (#12505970)
      Google's already been accussed many times of working with the Chinese to censor the Chinese version of Google. Censorship is a prerequisite for any company offering information to the chinese it appears.

      Here's one example http://www.pandia.com/sw-2004/48-google.html [pandia.com]
      • The only way I see google restricting its searches is through its country domains. It automatically redirects to your country domain (for example, if I'm in India I'm redirected to google.co.in). So probably searching through that domain will lead to censored results. Searching from the international domain should not lead to any censors unless google decides to explicitly modify its search algorithm to identify the destination country for each search/session.

        Anyway there's tons of ways to bypass that. The
      • China's government censores things. Why should google go against them?

        I mean, China's government is a problem of chinese people. Google is a company fro USA. I can't find any reason why google should try to "free" chinese people, it's not their problem.
        • China's government censores things. Why should google go against them?

          I think that's part of the "don't be evil" mantra. Censorship in support of a dictatorship is generally considered to be a bad thing, at least among those who value freedom.

          Max
        • That's really a very selfish opinion. Do you accept censorship in general, or only if it happens in other countries?

          The chinese has tried to revolt against the government, only to be squashed by the government forces -- remember the Tiananmen Square Massacre in 1989. Do you accept this as simply a problem for chinese citizens? The chinese government will demand that Google censor this event, along with a vast number of other "embarrassing" historical facts in the hope that the chinese will forget it ever

          • That's really a very selfish opinion. Do you accept censorship in general, or only if it happens in other countries?

            So, what should google do, lobby bush to invade China?
            • That's really a very selfish opinion. Do you accept censorship in general, or only if it happens in other countries?

              So, what should google do, lobby bush to invade China?

              It's either ignore or bomb with you americans Sorry ;D.

              No, I don't see what they can do about it, but they should cross out the "do no evil" line in their charter, or perhaps amend it to "do no evil, except when in Rome...".

            • No. Refuse to do business with China. It worked for South Africa, remember?

        • Yeah, and if government X wants to buy a gas chamber, why shouldn't a US company sell it to them? This is exactly your logic. This is exactly the kind of behavior which a company exhibits when it is motivated solely by profit. Why is it OK for a public company to engage in an action which most people would deplore if it were perpetrated by an individual?

    • Will Google's presence in China hasten the free flow of information, or end up encouraging the Chinese government to reactively restrict even more?

      Something tells me it won't be a simple matter of either/or. There will probably be ways for resourceful Chinese citizens to use Google in a manner the authorities don't want, and there will be some areas where Google will have to go along with the government.

      A larger question might be this: Is the Chinese public better off with, or without Google?

    • I'm sure it will be and I'm wondering how they can easily cripple their software to do so. Google seems to be able to pretty much find anything on the subject of everything.

      And I don't see how this is a sign of google being evil. They simply want to enter a large market but must play by China's rules. At most, the rules are just going to restrict what web pages the Chinese can access, not modify the pages themselves in that form of censorship.
      • Agreed.

        Further, as we know, Google is a massive gateway to learning (yes, yes.. among other things). I expect the more educated a population gets, the less like they are to tolerate a country that would censor information.

        So if you're a die-hard google lover, at least you have that. :)

      • And I don't see how this is a sign of google being evil. They simply want to enter a large market but must play by China's rules.
        When it comes to censorship, "playing along" with it for the purpose of profit *is* evil.
        • Not doing anything is censorship, too. The best way to get the most possible information into China is to throw whatever we can over the firewall and hope that the government can't keep everything out.
          • Normally, yes, but under these circumstances, I don't agree. Because Google is THE premier search engine, when it returns results what it is essentially saying is "These are the best sources for what you were looking for". When that's not true, and the pages are ranked such that the propaganda ranks highest (and don't believe for a moment that won't be the case. I would be surprised if that *wasn't* a condition of letting google operate there.) Under circumstances like that, having nothing available is
      • "And I don't see how this is a sign of google being evil. They simply want to enter a large market but must play by China's rules."

        They can also choose not to tner the market. If they do, then they accept whatever Chinese government demands. By this time it's no longer purely a business action - it is now also a moral action, and it can be judged in terms of a/im/morality.

        The idea what whatever a business does isnever has a moral angle to it is bogus.

        "At most, the rules are just going to restrict what we
    • At first glance, it seems like Google is just trying to lure Chinese advertisers. However, opening an office in China and acquiring a license gives the Chinese government leverage over Google. For example, if Google refuses a request to block "Falun Gong" searches, the government could threaten to rescind the license - endangering not just Google's image but its ad revenue as well.
      • It would be nice if they dealt with it the same way they did with DMCA - e.g. by adding a note to the bottom of the page saying something along the lines of, "N results were blocked from view according to the law X of PRC". This would make people think more about what and why is blocked. Of course, should they do it that way, they will be kicked out of China even faster, and they know it... so it's not going to happen. A pity.

    • The cats been out of the bag for a while (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      and I'm not talking bout that hottie who's walk, from behind, looks like two cats in a burlap sack

      From the day China allowed foreigners to work, information has become more acessible to it's citizens. Hell, I smuggled in a load of penthouse magazines back in 1979.

      Google will only add to the flow of information. You've got a culture in which allegory and veiled implication, communication through code if you will, is already deeply rooted. In this context, any technology that enhances the ability of people
    • AOL is catching up with google. AOL started offering free blogs service for non members (http://pc.channel.aol.com/aimblogs [aol.com] [aol.com]) and starting from tomorrow is offering 2 gb email for non members (http://www.aim.com/aim_mail.adp [aim.com] [aim.com]). Seems like this healthy competetion is a boon for the end users.

  • Danger (Score:1, Insightful)

    by Anonymous Coward
    I believe Google's considerable success comes from their adherence to ethical practices in the service they offer. China will pose a special challenge for Google. I don't like the United States government's suppression of material but China seems to hold a more fervent disdain for its people knowing what is going on. Anyone else trust in God?

    • Re:Danger (Score:1, Interesting)

      by Khyber ( 864651 )
      Umm, given the fact I can find anything from furry yiffsex to child porn in the US (Which, obviously, due to me being able to access this, pretty much shows NO CENSORSHIP WHATSOEVER,) and China has a problem with anything that includes the words "communist/communism and China" in the same webpage, how does Google even expect to be able to market in China? And since I can access this material I've previoiusly mentioned (Also including Warez, Illegal M$ goodies, etc and so forth,) How can you even dare say th

  • Oh my! (Score:4, Funny)

    by D14BL0 ( 880565 ) <drug.against.war ... UTom minus punct> on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @11:02PM (#12505968) Homepage
    Yahoo's been Shanghai'd!

  • Shareholder value (Score:5, Insightful)

    by fingerfucker ( 740769 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @11:03PM (#12505975)
    If Google wants to stay in business, this is exactly the kind of a thing a shareholder would expect from their management. Not entering a market that comprises one quarter of the world would be fatal.

    Hopefully, now you see how aggressive a company must become once it goes public.

    By the way, did you know that Sergey Brin no longer owns [yahoo.com] any shares in Google?

    • Re:Shareholder value (Score:3, Informative)

      by Infonaut ( 96956 )
      By the way, did you know that Sergey Brin no longer owns [yahoo.com] any shares in Google?

      He could conceivably have unexercised options, though, right?

      • He could conceivably have unexercised options, though, right?

        Often, the vesting plan of options will be such that you will exercise your options and cash the proceeds on the market. Not knowing what Brin's case is, I would tend to guess (based on the history of option exercisings and subsequent immediate sales of those shares) that he does not necessarily intend on keeping any shares.

        All this is however purse speculation of course.
    • There's nothing saying that Google wouldn't have tried to enter the Chinese market if it had not gone public.
    • WoW! I probably mistyped, but he's sold off over $700 million!
    • If he sold all his shares, hundreds of millions of dollars worth, he's going to have one hell of a tax bill come April 15th, 2006, no? I mean, sure, these may be long term capital gains, but that's still 15%. Huh, you'd think the street would be concerned when a cofounder and head honcho still running the company has sold out completely.

      • Re:Eep, what would his taxes be like? (Score:1, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward
        If he sold all his shares, hundreds of millions of dollars worth

        You left off a zero. Sergey controls around 38 million shares of GOOG; at today's closing price of 231 that's about 8.7 billion dollars. He's sold a few hundred million worth, though.

        long term capital gains, but that's still 15%.

        15% Federal cap gains, plus the California 9.3% rate. Roughly 1/4 goes to taxes, as a minimum.

        Huh, you'd think the street would be concerned when a cofounder and head honcho still running the company has s

    • If you look at it alot of insiders have sold off their stocks...

      And is there any other evidence he is completely sold off remeber he has $5billion is stocks or so? and the total amounts here amounted to less then a billion...
    • He has sold off all of his Class C shares, which is what the public trades in. He still holds all of his class A shares which have the real voting power and the majority of his value. Those shares he sold were specifically allocated to him so he could "cash in" without losing equity in the company.
    • You're trolling right? I mean, "Hopefully"? What's so sacred about fucking shareholders and their fucking value? On the one side you have a billion people living under a despotic government, and on the other hand you have a bunch of worthless shits whose only claim to fame is MOVING MONEY. Not producing anything, not providing services, not doing any-fucking-thing that has any value to anyone, but buying and selling shares. Nothing wrong with it, except suddenly shareholders become this upper caste that eve

  • China (Score:5, Funny)

    by venicebeach ( 702856 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @11:05PM (#12506003) Homepage Journal

    I guess it's true -- using Linux does lead to communism.

  • Censoring isn't the only problem... (Score:5, Insightful)

    by GillBates0 ( 664202 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @11:05PM (#12506004) Homepage Journal
    How long before the Chinese subsidiary of Google (presumably more susceptible to Chinese laws than the US based parent company) is forced to hand over logs and other identifiable information to track down and arrest potential "dissidents" who searched for unacceptable terms?

    With Google moving quite rapidly into a "personalized" model, where your searches, email, search history, etc is all tied to a single account, tracking down people based on their Google activity shouldn't be too difficult.

    As a side note, this is what happens [google.com] (delete is quite a misnomer IMHO) when you choose to "delete" your search information:

    4. What happens when I pause the service, remove items, or delete the My Search History service?

    You can choose to stop storing your searches in My Search History either temporarily or permanently, or remove items, as described in My Search History Help. However, as is common practice in the industry, Google maintains a separate logs system for auditing purposes and to help us improve the quality of our services for users. For example, we use this information to audit our ads systems, understand which features are most popular to users, improve the quality of our search results, and help us combat vulnerabilities such as denial of service attacks.

    • Forget Google... if the Chinese citizenry can access Gizoogle [gizoogle.com] I bet you money the Chinese government wouldn't be able to even translate the results! You think the Chinese government speaks Snoop Dogg? No way!
    • How long before the Chinese subsidiary of Google (presumably more susceptible to Chinese laws than the US based parent company) is forced to hand over logs and other identifiable information to track down and arrest potential "dissidents" who searched for unacceptable terms?

      Well, the Chinese don't really need Google's information to find out who's searching for what since they control, oh, roughly 100% of the internet traffic. I say roughly, because this figure doesn't include the Transmission of IP Data [ietf.org]

  • What's evil? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by microbee ( 682094 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @11:06PM (#12506009)
    I don't understand why it's evil for google to have to put some censorship required by the Chinese government. Is filtering content itself evil? Hard to say. Is filtering porn evil? (which IS what Chinese government does) Is entering Chinese market and cooperating with Chinese government evil? Wow, that's gone too far for me to comment. So, what is evil, exactly?

    • Re:What's evil? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Is filtering porn evil?
      YES! What kind of sick bastard would want LESS porn!?
    • Evil is what is allowed to exist when good men do nothing.

    • Re:What's evil? (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I agree.
      Would it be less evil to stay out of the chinese market and not give the chinese people any search services? My belief is that Google is doing the right thing here (so far, at least) because they cannot influence what is happening unless they are involved. Now that they are getting more involved they will be given opportunities to make ethically challenging decisions and we will just have to wait and see what choices are made.

      benajamin
    • What's evil?
      "Evil is whatever Sergey says is evil" - Eric Schmidt, Google's CEO.

    • Chinese government filters political content.

      http://www.michaelgeist.ca/resc/html_bkup/may22005 .html [michaelgeist.ca]

      That okay too?

  • New Market (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Luigi30 ( 656867 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @11:17PM (#12506076)
    So Google moves into a new market. A restricted market. Nothing wrong with that. It's one of the fastest-growing markets in the world right now. If they don't move into it, they'd be crazy. So they have to filter some content. All markets are restricted in some way. Doesn't make them evil to follow the rules.

    • Google should just delete China from their index! That'll show em!

    • Re:New Market (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No, if the government commits crimes against humanity or limits free speech its the duty of every citizen to resist. Youre not going to say that it was wrong of the chinese students to protest on tiananmen square because they didnt "follow the rules", are you?
  • Dear Citizens of China, Since your communist government is blocking access to Google, and assuming that you can read Slashdot, here are a few web pages that your government would probably prefer you not read:

    Freedom starts with you.

    • Well done. Slashdot maybe legal there (or may not) but them links will outright not be. So every time someone clicks them links and the Chinese government finds out and decides to take action is on YOUR HEAD.

      You may have just killed someone for all you know. I suggest before you start "leading the blind" you start thinking.

      Freedom in China may or may not lead to you dying. Some ignorant bastard on slashdot giving links doesn't change the othjer 99.9% of China which won't rebel so you just get a guy taken
      • You really are truly barking mad, almost as mad as the people who marked you insightful (eitehr that or a Machiavellianly clever troll). You really think this guy is basically a murderer because he puts links offensive to the Chinese government up in his post, thus risking the life of an unwary chinese citizen who clicks on them?

        I guess you better set off on your magic sled around the planet making sure that no-one ever puts anything offensive to anyone up on the Internet, since by your reasoning that mak

        • I never said he'd killed anyone. I was saying it's possible and that one guy reading something will change jack.

          People seem to be ignorant to the fact that Chinese people WANT/ACCEPT this as normal. As long as they are fine they don't care for the rest. Maybe before we start going "LEARN ZEE TRUTH!" we should address things like schools teaching racism against the Japanese no?

          After all being ignorant of the pass doesn't hurt anyone else, where as hating a whole nation right next door does.

          So maybe before
        • The Chinese government is a group of engineers doing what they believe to be best for their country. They've had a lot of successes, too. Just because you disagree with some of their policies doesn't make them malicious or evil. True that their record on some things such as human rights is still poor, but it is certainly considerably better than it was under the Japanese occupation, the Nationalists, the various warlords before that, or the Qing dynasty. They've come a long way from bound feet, forced hair
      • One more, one less, doesn't make any difference at all.
      • Topeka, 1954:

        How can you send your black children to a white school? You know the white kids are just going to pick on them, call them names, beat them up after class, possibly lynch one of the boys, and generally make their existences a living hell. How could you do that to a child when you know it won't make any difference because the white people will always find a way to keep the negroes down regardless of whether schools are integrated?
    • dear poster,why do you know so many chinese and even many wester dont know?
      is it a political propaganda like chinese goverment and organization sponsored by some nations does?

    • Re:Chinese Citizens: What Your Government Is Hidin (Score:1, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      No! The awfur ries, the awfur awfur ries!

    • Re:Chinese Citizens: What Your Government Is Hidin (Score:4, Insightful)

      by HungWeiLo ( 250320 ) on Thursday May 12, 2005 @12:50AM (#12506552)
      I hope you know that in another way you are also a victim of government propaganda.

      I have traveled to China many times and work with many H1-B's from all parts of China. All of them are already quite knowledgeable about all the information provided in the links above, and most do not hesitate to engage in discussions about such topics over lunch. The fact that you feel all 1.6 billion Chinese are most certainly blind to these pieces of information is a direct result of years of indoctrination of Western (I'm assuming American) propaganda. If it appears that the Chinese people are not doing anything or caring about these things, it's because they're too busy making money and not wanting to be political martyrs. Who can blame them? When was the last time you personally put your own life (or probably in you or my case, your personal career/reputation/credit/criminal record) on the line for a cause against the government?

      But really - what do you expect them to do? Start a bloody revolution because you can't do a few things? Because they execute a lot of citizens? (The state of Texas alone executes more people per capita than Communist China, by the way, according to Amnesty Intl) Just like the U.S., as long as the government can keep the middle class relatively comfortable, people will happily accept the status quo if it doesn't bother them too much. The more technology is integrated into Chinese society, the faster democracy will integrate into China. However, it seems that you're more a subscriber to the theory of instant gratification. But one doesn't have to look too much further than Russia to see how much harm sudden and unplanned transitions of complex political and economic systems can do. I'm sure you have good intentions, but the implementation of sudden riotious overthrowing never did anybody any good.
    • #1 is blocked because it's google cache. #2 loads fine. #3 I'm not even going to click on. #4 is blocked. I notice you didn't provide any links to Chinese-language sites...how typically self-centered. The Chinese are not too terribly interested in blocking English-language sites, and other languages receive almost zero attention.

      Incidentally, Falun Gong is a weirdo cult like Scientology. It's funny how everyone in the West thinks they're some kind of counterculture heroes. Guess what, you've only h

      • Guess what, you've only heard one side of the story from the biased media.

        Guess what, China's still a fucked up fascist dictatorship feebly trying to pass itself off as a working communist state. No amount of internet blocking will ever change that fact.

        Thanks, Jack, but dictatorships don't deserve respect. And neither do the people who support them.

        Max
        • It's not a dictatorship. Hu Jintao has nothing like the power of a Mugabe, Jong-Il, or Hussein. It's actually quite difficult for the central party to get the regional and local leaders to follow central dictates.

          Neither is it fascist, it's the polar opposite, communist.

          Even from the biased Western press you can get these facts, Jack.

          • Neither is it fascist, it's the polar opposite, communist.

            Calling yourself communist doesn't make you communist. You actually have to *practice* communism, a feat which no government has ever come close to at any time in human history.

            China is a fascism, an autocratic authority ruling over an economic mix of capitalism and state-owned industry. It's the very definition of fascism.

            Max

      • Incidentally, Falun Gong is a weirdo cult like Scientology. It's funny how everyone in the West thinks they're some kind of counterculture heroes. Guess what, you've only heard one side of the story from the biased media.

        Funny, Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falun_Gong [wikipedia.org] says otherwise.

        BTW, would you support the US Government if it started persecuting Scientologists like the chinese went after people who followed Falun Gong?

        • Since when is Wikipedia an unbiased source? I trust them even less than the New York Times, for Pete's sake. It does a decent enough job at dry facts, but it's rather infamous for being terrible at anything remotely controversial.

          In addition, I can't load the site, as it's blocked. Wikipedia itself isn't blocked, but the F-G term is.

          If the Scientologists tried to overthrow the government, they would have nobody but themselves to blame if the government moved to protect its own existence. F-G is rathe

    • American Citizen: What Your Ignorance Is Denying U (Score:2, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      Dear American citizen, don't be such an ignorant fool. The Chinese are not completely cut off from the outside world. In fact, most of those who are educated enough to read English and have so much time that they might read Slashdot, are also well-off enough to have traveled outside China and seen the sites that might usually be blocked. In short, you're not teaching anyone anything, at least not anyone outside USA.

      American, the question is, how much is your arrogance and ignorance denying you?

    • Re:Chinese Citizens: What Your Government Is Hidin (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Thursday May 12, 2005 @02:17AM (#12506861)
      You know, I'm a first generation Chinese immigrant who's been living in the States for most of my life now (got my US citizenship just last year), and the attitudes most Americans (can I assume parent thread is American?) have towards China is still quite the paradox to me.

      On one hand, I can't help but admire the constant moralizing and ideological rigidity that Americans are so fond of. On the other hand, it shocks me that a people who consider themselves so enlightened can still be so... ignorant. Slashdot especially is pretty solid breeding ground for the militantly libertarian sort. I usually like reading /. for tech news (computer science major and all that), but steer clear of the political threads. Unfortunately I stumbled into this one.

      Let me dissect your self-righteous ramble line by line.

      "...Great Leap Forward resulted in the deaths of some 30-60 million of your countrymen..."

      Please, I find it insulting that you speak to the Chinese people as if we're all blind children. If you were even REMOTELY aware of Chinese history, you'll know that from 1976-1978 the CCP openly criticized Mao as part of the reform process. My family was part of the pre-1949 landowning class, and they suffered a GREAT deal from Mao's policies. The abuses of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution are open grounds for public discussion. Chinese people are QUITE aware of their own history, thank you very much.

      "...China's invasion of Tibet..."

      Yes we are quite aware of that history as well. We are also quite aware of the fact that from 1950 through the late 1960's, the CIA trained several thousand guerrilla operatives in Tibet to combat the PLA. What perplexes me is how exactly is it that you feel you are reaching out to COMMON CHINESE PEOPLE by bringing up Tibet? I fully acknowledge that the 1950 invasion was probably morally indefensible. But if you seem to tie everything evil about China to 'them damn commies,' you are dead fucking wrong. Chinese nationalism is alive and well, with or without the CCP. If anything, the CCP is REIGNING IN grassroots nationalism. If the Chinese were to decide by popular concensus their policy towards say, Taiwan or Tibet, believe me, the attitude would be considerably more hostile than the current CCP policy.

      "...Falun Gong..."

      Yeah yeah I get it. Freedom of religion blah blah blah. Let's put it this way: Chinese people don't give a fuck. Now that would of course be a gross over-simplification, and I will elaborate on that statement even though simpletons like you are unable to achieve any level of nuance in your soapboxing. Religion and spirituality in China has been in flux for most of the 20th century. For those acquainted in Chinese history, China has never had a 'religion' per se. Confucianism and ancestor worship was a sort of philosophical/spiritual hybrid belief system, alien to the West, that China lived with until the 20th century. Since the old belief system was discredited by imperialism and the collapse of the Qing dynasty, Communism essentially took its place as a pseudo-religion of sorts. After communism was discredited in the post-Mao reforms, China was essentially at a loss to find a satisfying belief system. All sorts of cults, Falun Gong being the biggest, grew out of a vacuum. The VAST majority of Chinese however, are rather more devoted to making a living, and secular nationalism is a FAR bigger phenomenon than Falun Gong. The bottom line is that this is a marginal issue to most Chinese.

      "...rather execute people rather than let them practice it..."

      I have no idea where you've been getting your information buddy. There hasn't been large scale political executions in China since Tiananmen. Executions are for economic and violent crimes (corruption, smuggling, drugs, and homicide - several high-level provincial officials have been sent to the gallows). With crime rising along with increasing openness and economic instability, the death penalty is becoming MORE popular in China,

      • on one hand, I can't help but admire the constant moralizing and ideological rigidity that Americans are so fond of.

        Unfortunately, this is a habit you seem to have taken to quite readily...

        The abuses of the Great Leap Forward and the Cultural Revolution are open grounds for public discussion. Chinese people are QUITE aware of their own history, thank you very much.

        Great! But then why did China ban the book? Or is that just marketing hype?

        Falun Gong...is a marginal issue to most Chinese.

        Agreed. Bu

  • So how is Google spelled in ideograms? I'll be dissapointed if it doesn't resemble two eyes. And how long does it take to type it?
  • So long as Google can at least make some money there, they're going to try and market it. Remember, this still is a publicly traded company and by selling their sole they give up many moral decisions on the behalf of their investors. Their investors do after all, own the company. Although Google has a pledge to be a moral company, and they still can and will in many ways, they have to really try and make more money any somewhat decently way.

    The people of China deserve this and for that matter they deser
    • "soul"

      [read slashdot enough and you forget how to spell i gues]

    • Re:They still have money (Score:1, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward
      I disagree somewhat. Google are and have been very open about their "do no evil" policy. If investors do not agree with this policy, then they should not by Google shares. As I see it, the volume of shares bought indicate a mandate of their shareholders to continue their "do no evil" policy in the same way that a politician claims to have a mandate from the people upon winning an election. Does a politician have a obligation to be corrupt and forget the policies campaigned upon once they are elected?

      While
      • " If investors do not agree with this policy, then they should not by Google shares."

        Then Google should not make their shares "public". Investors become owners to an extent and since they are public now, people interested in making money through investments will buy in to this company and expect profits. Google would have to make their stock a private investment to maintain the goals they have unilaterally.

  • Yahoo and 3721 (Score:2, Interesting)

    by FRiC ( 416091 )
    Yahoo is only in China because they bought 3721, makers of the most successful ad/spyware ever, installed on every single Chinese computer.

    Maybe Google can buy baidu.

  • Slashdot finally gets its wish! Irony follows... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by TheNarrator ( 200498 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @11:38PM (#12506191)
    It seems the Slashdot crowd has been wailing forever about how big corporations control our government. Now finally China has come along and can use its economic muscle to tell big corporations what to do.

    It can even tell Big Corporations to censor American content or to lobby and donate to American politicians who are pro-China. If the Big Corporations fail to do so, China can easily place roadblocks in their way to help their more co-operative competitors.

    • It seems the Slashdot crowd has been wailing forever about how big corporations control our government. Now finally China has come along and can use its economic muscle to tell big corporations what to do.

      It's only a contradiction if you (deliberately?) plot it on the wrong axis.

      The "Slashdot crowd" wails mainly about big corporations exercising their control over government to restrict individual freedoms -- it's hard to see how the wailing about a government's dirct restriction of individual freedoms

  • Reality Check (Score:4, Insightful)

    by KrackHouse ( 628313 ) on Wednesday May 11, 2005 @11:40PM (#12506201) Homepage
    This is NOT a zero sum game. Higher wages for foreigners does not mean we'll necessarily get less. When the cotton gin was invented farmers lost their jobs, fired their chiropractors, moved to the city and bought cars. It has been suggested that the only reason we didn't sink into a deeper recession after 9/11 was because of the influx of cheap Chinese products (think Walmart).

    There are about 2.4 billion people in China and India compared to 0.3 Billion in America. In a few short years that brainpower is going to contribute to our standard of living. These people worried about forign competition are probably not going to complain when a freakishly brillian scientist in India or China cures cancer and saves their mom. In the grand scheme of things it's better for everybody that some of our wealth goes to nourish the brains of impoverished kids, they'll be saving our lives when we're old and gray.
    I must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. My sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history, naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry, and porcelain.
    John Adams
    I have a feeling that we'll look back on the jobs most of us currently have as shackles that prevented us from pursuing our true interests.
    • As long as China remains communist and the government tries to control the economy, they will never surpass the United States in relative output.

      But then again, we are seeing China move towards a more capitalistic model and the United States moving towards a more socialist model, it will be interesting.
    • The cotton gin actually made the production of cotton profitable. ...and it was invented in 1793, there were no cars then.

      Your sentiments might have been good but your facts aren't, sort of like what Dan Rather claimed. Does this mean you have to resign? :)
    • Indeed, cheaper Chinese products have saved American consumers over $200 billion since the initiation of free market reforms in China.

      During the same time, nearly 100 million people have been brought out of desperate poverty (under $1 per day income) in China.

      Meanwhile, the US has one of the lowest unemployment rates of a developed country and one of the highest GDP growth rates for a developed country.
  • Many here voice concerns about whether Google will be forced to abide by the law and whether it is ethical to do so. Valid concerns, but I remind you we would be quite upset if a foreign company came in and did things against our own laws because of what they believed.

    Capitalism is a democratizing force. Whether or not Google complies with local laws and regulations matters far less than the increasing degree of involvement in modern capitalism -- which promotes the individual above the community (a lit

  • well i tried to read the artical on yahoo news, but can't see the body content, good one china! google is going to have a fun time. location: shanghai
  • In Soviet China... Google restricts you. Sorry I just had to say it
  • in the world's second-largest Internet market.
    ...in the world's second largest arbitrarily-defined market.
  • Ask Jeeves are about to announce a new research and development facility in southern China. Main task will be to first localize Ask Jeeves for the China market.

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