Is There a Place for a $500 Ethernet Card? 423
prostoalex writes "ComputerWorld magazine runs a story on Level 5 Networks, which emerged from the stealth startup status with its own brand of network cards and software called EtherFabric. The company claims they are reducing the load on the servers CPUs and improve the communications between the servers. And it's not vaporware: 'The EtherFabric software shipping Monday runs on the Linux kernel 2.4 and 2.6, with support for Windows and Unix coming in the first half of next year. High volume pricing is $295 for a two-port, 1GB-per-port EtherFabric network interface card and software, while low volume quantities start from $495.'"
A look into the past (Score:5, Insightful)
I wonder what has changed? I have never known the CPU to get dragged down by network traffic, but maybe in the network server markets it is different, However with the Ethernet chipsets being designed into the motherboard and integrated into the tight circle of RAM and CPU, it isn't clear there is a need for this.
How long before the network control is put into the CPU? It is going to be tough to beat that type of performance.
Sure there's a place for them (Score:5, Insightful)
Is There a Place for a $500 Ethernet Card?
Of course there is, assuming the card performs as advertised. Sheer conjecture: the card likely has a lot of the smarts onboard. Maybe it has some of the TCP and IP stuff on board too (checksum, etc). Compare that to a crapbox $10.95 RealTek[a] card which generates interrupts like mad because it has no smarts and you'd probably be very suprised. (Think of comparing a decent hardware modem to a software based WinModem.)
[a] I had a sales-drone at Computer Boulevard here in Winnipeg just RAVE about RealTek cards. I said I really wanted 3 Intel or 3COM cards for a new work proxy server and he said 'Why? RealTeks are way cheaper and run at the same speed!' Retard.
What good is such a fast Ethernet card... (Score:1, Insightful)
Specific acceleration cards nothing new (Score:3, Insightful)
Knock-Offs (Score:5, Insightful)
Is There a Place for a $500 Ethernet Card? (Score:1, Insightful)
I think there is definately a market for this... (Score:5, Insightful)
Back when I was working at a startup developing anti-DDoS technology, one of the biggest problems we were faced when implemented GigE, was the load on the PCI bus. (This was before we started using PCI-X).
It depends on exactly how customisable the network card software is, but if you could plonk a couple of those into whatever system you wanted - and if the cards themselves could do, say, signature detection of various flood types, or basic analysis of traffic trends then that is a very definite market.
I realise the core issue is not addressed (if your physical pipe is full, then you're fucked), but it takes the load of dropping the malicious packets off the host CPU so it can attempt to service whatever valid traffic actually gets through.
And then there is IP fragmentation. Bad fragments? Perhaps a dodgy fragmentation implementation in the stack? (you know which OS I mean) Lets just drop that before the host sees it and crashes.
I don't know, I can't find any real information describing what they do, but I can certainly see uses for this.
Re:What good is such a fast Ethernet card... (Score:4, Insightful)
The other 0.1%, obviously.
Re:What good is such a fast Ethernet card... (Score:5, Insightful)
Listen, when I've got 30 web servers banging away on a single database server, I want each web server in and out as quickly as possible. Every bit of the handshake, query, and results is going to wrap up that much faster if things are faster, period. When you're dealing with a huge data-driven e-commerce site, where every page renders around a hundred or more queries, and there are dozens or hundreds of concurrent page views, this stuff really counts in the aggregate.
If you sell one more widget per day, all year long, because your web presentation layer is just a little more snappy, that's sure as hell going to pay for a $500 NIC.
A rose by any other name... (Score:5, Insightful)
As lawyers at Level 3 begin salivating at thought of all of the potential lawsuits.
There is a place in an NFS environment (Score:4, Insightful)
It is less import today then it was 10 years ago. (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:It is less import today then it was 10 years ag (Score:2, Insightful)
Sometimes you can't "split all your services onto smaller boxen and have a load balancing switch/router". Not everything on the network is a web server.
Re:What good is such a fast Ethernet card... (Score:5, Insightful)
Each page renders a hundred or more queries? Sounds like you're better off investing in a better design than better hardware.
IPSEC (Score:4, Insightful)
If this card can do most of the work of IPSEC for me, it'd be a big win.
My main concern though is that with two ports, how can I be absolutely certain the packet has to go through my firewall rules before it can go anywhere?
Of course, the extra ports could be an advantage. If it could handle all the rules for you, then it might even be capable of functioning as a layer 4 switch and sending out a new IP packet before completely recieving said packet.
But, I'd want all the software on that card to be Open Source.
One word... (Score:3, Insightful)
These are the kinds of NICs that would be put into a datacenter that is leaning heavily toward VMware GSX or ESX servers. Any bit of offload of the CPU in sharing the NICs is a good thing.
Re:A look into the past (Score:3, Insightful)
I've seen some 'built-in' broadcom gig-e ports that were on the PCI bus, even though they were technically built into the board. Horrible performance.
Re:A look into the past (Score:5, Insightful)
"Smart" network cards are one of those bad ideas that keep coming back from the grave, because computer science seems to lose its collective memory every decade or so.
Fifteen years ago, Van Jacobsen did a wonderful presentation at SIGCOMM 1990 on just why they were such a bad idea. The reason is very simple. A modern, well-tuned and optimized TCP/IP stack can process a packet with only about 20 instructions on average. Very few "smart" controller cards have host interfaces that can be spoken to with so few instructions! The switch to and from kernel context will usually cost you more than TCP/IP.
Not only that, but the coprocessor on the "smart" controller card inevitably ends up being considerably slower than the host CPU, because typical host CPUs are made in much larger quantities, enjoy large economies of scale, and are updated frequently. So you often have the absurd situation of a blazingly fast and modern host CPU twiddling its thumbs waiting for some piss-poor slow CPU on a "smart" controller to execute a protocol handler that could have been done on the host with fewer instructions than it takes just to move a packet to or from the "smart" card.
And if that weren't enough, rarely do these "smart" network controllers come with open source firmware. Usually the company that makes them obsoletes them quickly (because they don't sell well) and/or goes out of business, and you're left with a very expensive paperweight.
Since his talk, Ethernet interfaces have totally obsoleted "smart" network cards. They now come with lots of internal buffering to avoid losing packets when interrupt latencies are high, and they take relatively few instructions per byte of user data moved. What more could you want?
Re:It is less import today then it was 10 years ag (Score:4, Insightful)
Lies, damned lies and benchmarks (Score:2, Insightful)
But they don't say which CPU was used - probably an 850 MHz Pentium III or something similar outdated.
Fact is, on a current 3.x GHz Pentium IV or an equivalent Athlon or Opteron the communication overhead is in one digit range, percentage-wise.
A famous computer science quote is:
"Lies, damned lies and benchmarks"
and another one is
"Don't trust any statistics that you haven't forged yourself."
Re:What good is such a fast Ethernet card... (Score:3, Insightful)
Disagree - more valuable now than before (Score:2, Insightful)
My 100 Mbs ethernet card generates about 5k interrupts / second when transferring data at about 30 Mbps. Gigabit cards are engineered to hold interrupts until a few packets of data come in so that a DMA can move a larger chunks of data. If this NIC reduces the use of interrupts even further (say by off boarding computation or even the entire TCP/IP stack and thus allows for even larger DMA transfers) the impact could be substantial.
Unfortunetly, my knowledge of computer innards stops here, so I can't calculate how much cpu time 5000 interrupts actually take or how the new PCI-Express bus changes interrupt processing or how much a benefit it would be to have say only 1000 interrupts / second instead of the 5000.
Re:A look into the past (Score:5, Insightful)
Intel's implementation for the 865P/875P chipset goes through the memory hub directly http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/schematics/25 281202.pdf [intel.com] while the i845 chipset has the ethernet interface connected to the ICH4 controller hub that is shared among other devices like the PCI bus http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/datashts/2519 2401.pdf [intel.com]. VIA's PT894/PT880 ethernet connection goes through a "VIA Connectivity" bus much like the Intel 845 http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/p4-seri es/pt894pro [via.com.tw] and http://www.via.com.tw/en/products/chipsets/p4-seri es/pt880 [via.com.tw]. There were some value motherboards that although I recall that they use good/decent chipsets, their designers decided to connect the built-in gigabit ethernet ports off the PCI bus. I cannot recall what these were but I read about them in anandtech several years ago.
Re:spend the money on more CPU, not specialized st (Score:3, Insightful)
Interrupts are the one place where it's not remotely true. A faster processor will allow your system to handle significantly more interrupts. The whole interrupt model needs to be thrown out and replaced with something much better.
And while I'm at it, there are many cases where it's not true. Wherever you have a significant bottleneck, hardware acceleration helps tremendously. Tasks like encryption and (HighDef) video playback can max-out the highest-end systems available, while a $50 card can handle those tasks easily.
I don't think purpose-built hardware everywhere is the answer, but I do think having an FPIC/ASIC as a standard computer component could make for incredible speed improvements in most/all of the tasks that are hard for CPUs to perform.
Re:A look into the past (Score:3, Insightful)
I've learned this: Nobody cares. People will blindly spend hundreds, sometimes thousands, of dollars on specialized gear to offload their precious CPUs.
When it is explained to them that better system performance can be had for less money by simply buying a faster CPU, they throw up their hands and blindly reassert that dedicated hardware must be better, by simple virtue of the fact that it is dedicated. That such reasoning is plainly a crock of shit seems to escape them.
Van Jacobsen be damned, people are an illogical bunch. They're always doing stuff for all the wrong reasons, and trying to solve problems with solutions that are only vaguely related.
That all said, if the card manages to improve ethernet latency even a little bit, it might be worthwhile in some circumstances. I'm thinking of applications like Cobranet for professional audio (where latency is always critically important), or perhaps clustering.
I mean, can you imagine a Beowulf cluster with these?
Re:A look into the past (Score:3, Insightful)
Realistically there are bottlenecks all over the place and out of them these 2 prevent nearly any computer from reaching 1G.
1. Interrupt handling bottleneck. Even with interrupt mitigation your typical pps value for a single CPU P4 is under 100 kps. It falls down to under 60 kps when using Intel dual CPUs (dunno about AMD or Via) or SMT due to the overly deep pipeline on the P4. That is way less then 1G for small packets.
2. IO bottleneck. Many motherboards have IO-to-memory speeds which are realistically way under 1G in total, usually around 600-700 Mbit.
No card can help for these 2 problems.
Re:Sure there's a place for them (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't really think that's a valid complaint. In a perfect world, yes, but in retail? Not really.
Running linux is like owning a foreign car and expecting GM/Ford guys to fix it just as easily. Its one of the real liabilities of not running the monopoly/defacto standard OS. As a linux user, you should know what you're buying. I mean, users ofter get criticized for being ignorant of their systems, but you want the same ignorance and expect retailers to spend all this extra time and traning on what is really a minority OS they might get a tiny amount of sales for?
I *always* expect the salesman to be next to useless, that's why I do a little research and buy what I need. The retail sales position is there to push product, not to solve problems. It blows my mind when I see friends and family chat up the salesman and be semi-sweet talked into something thats good for them, but actually costs them an extra couple hundred of dollars or has things they don't need or is missing things they'll want in the future all because they wouldnt spend 10 minutes on the internet researching the purchase or reading reviews.
Re:A network card for gamers too? (Score:3, Insightful)
Never mind that using gold connectors and non-gold connectors together causes corrosion.
The Great Circular migration of Hardware (Score:4, Insightful)