Got Spyware? Throw out the Computer! 591
geeber writes "The New York Times (reg. required) has an article about a new response to spyware - throw out the computer and buy a new one. The notion is new computers can be had for $400 so it's a cost effective and 'rational response.'" From the article: "While no figures are available on the ranks of those jettisoning their PC's, the scourge of unwanted software is widely felt. This month the Pew group published a study in which 43 percent of the 2,001 adult Internet users polled said they had been confronted with spyware or adware, collectively known as malware. Forty-eight percent said they had stopped visiting Web sites that might deposit unwanted programs on their PC's.
Moreover, 68 percent said they had had computer trouble in the last year consistent with the problems caused by spyware or adware, though 60 percent of those were unsure of the problems' origins. Twenty percent of those who tried to fix the problem said it had not been solved; among those who spent money seeking a remedy, the average outlay was $129."
Stupid recommendation (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Bit of a waste, surely? (Score:2, Insightful)
1. don't know how
2. don't think it will fix it
either way, they pretty much know a new computer wont have those problems (at least to start)
Bill says "thanks" (Score:5, Insightful)
Perfect (Score:5, Insightful)
People are morons (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Stupid recommendation (Score:2, Insightful)
Throw out $400 PC vs Keep $500 MacMini (Score:4, Insightful)
And frankly, if you're spending $400 on a PC, the GPU is not going to be able to run many cutting-edge games anyway. So it's hard to see what a MacMini couldn't do for the average home user that a $400 POS Wintel box could...
Re:Bit of a waste, surely? (Score:2, Insightful)
In fact, for Average Joe it can be quite a good solution - provided that the replacement computer is a Mac instead of just another Wintel. Seriously, if you use Windows and you are just a person with no technical understanding of computers, spyware will inevitably return.
Of those that "didn't fix it" (Score:5, Insightful)
Besides, hardware is only a tiny fraction of it. Transferring all data, installing all programs and configuring everything to the way you are used to, that is what takes time. Even with a pre-installed Windows, people want all their various gadgets (one driver CD each, which they can't find), e-mail, bookmarks etc.
The only upside of that is that your old computer can serve as your back-up until you transfer it to the new one. Helluva expensive way to buy back-up on, though.
Kjella
Re:Bit of a waste, surely? (Score:1, Insightful)
The only way I can format these days is because I know how to disable the vulnerabilities before i connect online
Rich and stupid? (Score:2, Insightful)
Probably their new owner will be willing to do the cleaning job or won't have internet connection to make spyware such a 'big' problem.
WTF (Score:3, Insightful)
Works for me... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Bill says "thanks" (Score:5, Insightful)
Those that know, don't need to, and those that do, shouldn't even if they wanted to. I run as admin all the time, because it is simply much much easier. Running as a normal user is annoying at best due to all the stupid Windows software. A typical example (Win2k):
User:
1. Log out, log in as admin
2. Install as admin
3. Log back in as user
4. ???
5. Manually create shortcuts, menu folders, menu items, quicklaunch item and such for user.
Admin:
1. Install as admin
It's amazing how many programs that still haven't clued in that installing account is not always identical to user account. That is not counting every other stupid problem, like some programs requiring admin rights to run or other stupidity.
Kjella
Re:Bit of a waste, surely? (Score:2, Insightful)
Isn't windows supposed to be real easy though? Isn't that why it's marketshare is so much higher than that of Linux?
Of course, as a previous poster said, I'm not going to argue with throwing them out. I'll even recycle the old machines for them because I'm such a nice guy.
This is great! (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Reformat? (Score:3, Insightful)
So if it really tanks after a year or two, it's just a matter of rebooting and pressing a few keys before windows begins to load in order to completely recover the system. Of course if the HD crashes, we're back to square-one, but otherwise I figure it was a smart move...
N.
Re:And remember... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:Best recipe to remove spyware viruses & tro (Score:3, Insightful)
Honestly, I can't understand why people think using Windows is okay just because it's possible to "fix" it. It shouldn't be broken in the first place!
The Argument is Sterile (Score:4, Insightful)
Even if they knew they had spyware, they would not have a clue how to remove it anyway. They might "rationalise" a new PC with arguments about the cost of their time, but that is just a comfort factor thrown in. Maybe they fancied a new PC and this is an excuse to the wife.
I once worked in a research lab. One day someone building electronics dropped a resistor on the floor. Four of us, professional engineers, then spent the next hour debating whether or not it was cost effective for one of us to spend 5 seconds picking it up. I argued that it would take just almost as long to reach for a new one from the rack. I don't remember if it was picked up in the end.
Such debates are sterile - in the end you argue yourself into never doing anything.
Re:Bit of a waste, surely? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Throw out $400 PC vs Keep $500 MacMini (Score:3, Insightful)
Replacing your computer with another Windows one in order to fix malware problems is like beating yourself in the head to fix a brain tumor.
Re:Bit of a waste, surely? (Score:3, Insightful)
1. You throw out a computer.
2. I go trash diving.
3. ???????
4. You buy a computer from me that is identical to your old computer for half the price. A win-win situation.
5. Oh, profit!!
Re:WRONG! (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Bill says "thanks" (Score:3, Insightful)
Microsoft doesn't want to default to unprivileged accounts when software is abundant that relies on administrator rights; software companies will continue to make use of administrator rights as long as they're available.
The real problem here is that neither of them - nor Microsoft nor third-party software companies - actually feels the effects of the problems these invariably causes. The one who does is the end user; and while end users usually have the option of forcing companies (M$ and everyone else) to listen to their problems by not buying their products anymore, this option isn't really available when M$ has a quasi-monopoly on the market.
People who still think that M$ isn't so bad and hasn't actually caused much harm and that windows isn't that bad should think about this for a while. The problem is not in the absolute quality of the products - it's in the loss of quality compared to what we'd see if there was real competition. The monopoly it has allows M$ to be lazy and not care about users' problems. And THAT is why they're really bad and why it would've been a good thing to break them up.
Re:Bit of a waste, surely? (Score:4, Insightful)
Most people can't do that on their own. I do this for my longtime customers as a service, and it usually costs about $125.00-$150.00 to rent me out for an afternoon and get a full reformat. Some local screwdriver shops do this for about $50.00, but you have to leave your PC with them, you're solely responsible for backing up what you want to keep, and most of your applications will be missing when you get it back.
However, I think that this article is indicative of an awful amount of waste that goes on in this country. Computers are some of the most environmentally harmful products to produce and/or dispose of, and here we've got someone advocating throwing a computer away and buying a new one just because they don't like what's loaded into it? It's not just our corporations that think with their wallets and damn the whole world, there are plenty of consumers who think that way too!
Jasin NataelRe:Dear dumb**** (Score:3, Insightful)
Anyone without a hardware firewall needs to get one ASAP, and anyone doing "virgin" installs without one is really a dumbass.
These firewalls are literally $20, a year ago even the top-of-line ones with fancy stuff like stateful-packet-inspection were under $40.
Re:Dear dumb**** (Score:1, Insightful)
As a contrast to your experience, I have two computers in my house, which I mostly leave on all the time. Neither one of them has any virus infections, nor have I EVER had a virus infection on any of the ten or so computers I've owned over the years.
I do have a hardware firewall, though, and I've had one ever since getting broadband.
I really think the majority of people who get virus infections on their WinXP systems do so through ignorance or carelessness.
Re:Open Source?... (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Built in (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Bill says "thanks" (Score:3, Insightful)
On a slightly (but only slightly) more serious note, I wonder how many hardware makers stop to think about how many PCs are replaced simply because of Windows spyware - and are greatful. (Is this reason NOT to support Linux?)
Re:Bill says "thanks" (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:Bit of a waste, surely? (Score:3, Insightful)
Throwing out the whole PC seems a bit excessive..
Reformat the hard drive. AND re-install the operating system. AND the virus scanner. AND the applications. AND download the patches.
What is your time worth? Whenever I install a new system from scratch, it takes me about a day to get it the way I want it. If time is worth $50/hour, 8 hours of time alone is $400. So one is left with two choices:
1) spend $400 in labour to fix the box, or 2) spend $400 to buy a totally new box (in which case they can give the old one to their geek nephew to wipe clean and install Linux on).
Computers have gotten sufficiently cheap and prevalent these days that many people treat them as appliances, much like typewriters were 30 years ago. Whenever my VCR breaks down, I just spend $80 to buy a new one, rather than $100 to repair the old one. Have you ever taken a toaster to a repair shop?
Back in the '70s, National Lampoon had an article that was a magazine parody called "Popular Workbench". In it was a career ad promising "Earn big $$$ in transistor repair". Even at tht time, the notion was absurd - when individual transistors cost less than a dollar, repairing them was totally cost-ineffective.
Re:Bit of a waste, surely? (Score:3, Insightful)
Reformatting a hard drive (and maybe installing Linux?) doesn't take hours. Maybe his sons were balking at keeping a 2-year-old computer when their dad was willing to buy a new one.
Re:Bit of a waste, surely? (Score:2, Insightful)
It's not the hardware (Score:2, Insightful)
1. Long install times
2. Cannot find disks
3. Incompatabilities with new hardware
4. License forbids CPU change
5. Lost custom configurations/settings
6. Stuff I forgot to list
Someone forget the environment? (Score:3, Insightful)
But what to you expect from the NY Times? Shortsighted and made up is their motto.
Re:Bit of a waste, surely? (Score:3, Insightful)
No, you don't. Most OEM PCs don't come with an install CD - they come with a "restore" CD that puts the disk back the way it was "out of the box". It's generally pretty easy to use, actually.
"Linux has surpassed Windows in ease of installation..."
Yes and no. Fedora is easier to install than Windows, but most people never install Windows. It's hard to make installation easier than not doing it at all...
Re:Bit of a waste, surely? (Score:3, Insightful)
It's not just our corporations that think with their wallets and damn the whole world, there are plenty of consumers who think that way too!
In my opinion, throwing out a computer for such reasons doesn't even qualify as thinking with your wallet: As inexpensive as computers may be nowadays, it should still be cheaper to pay the local computer shop for a 'tune up' than to buy a completely new machine. Instead, it's acting on the basis of laziness, which I consider a far worse thing...