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Operating Systems Software BSD

Another Step Towards BSD on the Desktop 536

linuxbeta writes "DesktopBSD is the latest easy to install BSD aimed squarely at the desktop. Installation screen shots. From their site: 'DesktopBSD aims at being a stable and powerful operating system for desktop users. DesktopBSD combines the stability of FreeBSD, the usability and functionality of KDE and the simplicity of specially developed software to provide a system that's easy to use and install.' DesktopBSD joins the ranks of PC-BSD and FreeSBIE."
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Another Step Towards BSD on the Desktop

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  • Necessary? (Score:3, Insightful)

    by wigle ( 676212 ) on Tuesday August 09, 2005 @10:53PM (#13283683)
    First of all, if you're using FreeBSD chances are you know how to configure an X11 environment. It's easy. Also, you have your choice of window managers; not everyone will choose KDE. Package management is already extremely easy with ports, especially with portupgrade. I definitely agree that FreeBSD with an official GUI would be awesome (the opposite approach of Windows, where the interface would simply be a frontend for scripts), but for a half-hearted attempt there's not much of a demographic.
  • by ReformedExCon ( 897248 ) <reformed.excon@gmail.com> on Tuesday August 09, 2005 @10:55PM (#13283690)
    It's great how the fancy graphical installation screen crashes back to an ugly terminal font in Screen10. It kind of throws off the whole good vibe that I'd been getting during the previous steps. Also, why is there a Next button active when the installation script obviously wants me to press Reboot? Strange, to say the least.

    But when it comes down to it, installation is only the gateway to the system. It isn't the system itself. MacOS could have the world's worst installation system, but the OS itself runs so nicely that people just love to be running it.

    There should be no "Configure my Installation" step. It should choose a default "best-fit" confiuration based on the detected hardware (mostly screen resolution) and leave any further customization to the user to do later. It is more important to have the system up and running than to have it customized just so.

    And in the end, you're still dealing with BSD, which is great if you're running a server, but sluggish (response times to system interrupts is slow, compared to Windows and MacOS) when running in a user-centric scenario.

    I installed FreeBSD previously and didn't have any trouble there. The questions were just as straightforward as this installer and within an hour I had a full BSD installation with graphical interface to boot. It wasn't "ready for the desktop" in any sense of the term, though, unfortunately.
  • Re:Necessary? (Score:5, Insightful)

    by debilo ( 612116 ) on Tuesday August 09, 2005 @11:03PM (#13283729)
    What exactly makes you call this a "half-hearted attempt"? As far as I know, the author of DesktopBSD has been working on this project for months now with only little help from a few others, and he's been a victim of flames like yours above trying to ridicule his efforts several times now.

    . Until you've installed and tested it yourself, your post above is nothing more than a half-hearted attempt at a comment.
  • Comment removed (Score:2, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Tuesday August 09, 2005 @11:10PM (#13283761)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • Re:Convince me (Score:2, Insightful)

    by Elshar ( 232380 ) <elshar.gmail@com> on Tuesday August 09, 2005 @11:21PM (#13283805) Journal
    No, noone is going to convince you. This isn't a sales pitch. (Why was that moded interesting? Its not).

    Also, BSD is NOT linux. Read for yourself what they do. Here they are.

    http://www.freebsd.org/ [freebsd.org]
    http://www.openbsd.org/ [openbsd.org]
    http://www.netbsd.org/ [netbsd.org]
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 09, 2005 @11:29PM (#13283843)
    "Face it, Linux has a head start and is enjoying far more corporate support (due partly to the fact that Linux is licensed GPLv2, which compells big companies to share back their improvements).

    We're all on the same team -- only if we FOCUS our efforts into the OS with the best chance (Linux) can we defeat the DRM-infested, money-grabbing proprietary OSs like M$ Vista and Apple OS X."

    Why must every good thing be turned into some kind of zealot-fest, rally to my agenda? How about we all simply enjoy the damn distro without trying to conquor this, push agenda that, holy-war upon everything that doesn't agree with me?
  • by bahwi ( 43111 ) on Tuesday August 09, 2005 @11:37PM (#13283871)
    When is starts to fracture.

    For awhile there, we only had 3, and life was good. Now we have DragonFly, Darwin, and now DesktopBSD. Any system that splits up so much must be dead or dying!!
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday August 09, 2005 @11:45PM (#13283903)
    "Reason #1 why I use FreeBSD over Linux, I just want a Unix-like OS without a revolution packaged with it."

    You joke but I firmly believe that that's one important difference between the two licenses. One was designed from the start to be some kind of counter-culture, subversive license. The other is elegent in it's simplicity. No hidden traps that you need a lawyer to ferret out. No worry that sometime latter it will be changed to be even tighter (2.0), when it's realized there might be a way out of it's grasp (web apps).
  • by Digital Pizza ( 855175 ) on Tuesday August 09, 2005 @11:53PM (#13283934)
    ...most of the core utilities are bloated, poorly documented GNU junk.

    Thanks for reminding me of something: whoever it is within Gnu that thought it'd be a great idea to deprecate man pages in favor of info documents, even if it's Stallman himself, I seriously want to kick his ass!

    There. That felt better.

    BTW, I agree with the rest of your post as well.

  • by fafaforza ( 248976 ) on Tuesday August 09, 2005 @11:54PM (#13283936)
    > Too bad, all that developer talent could have gone into making Linux better suited for the desktop.

    Every annum for the past 6 years, headlines claimed that it was the year of "desktop Linux." Yet nothing came of it save for a bunch of Windows-esque clones with no innovation. Then Apple came along and revolutionized the desktop experience. So maybe it is time for someone else to give it a go.
  • by b17bmbr ( 608864 ) on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @12:11AM (#13284002)
    can we defeat the DRM-infested, money-grabbing proprietary OSs like M$ Vista and Apple OS X.

    dude, take it easy. turn off the che rhetoric for a bit, tell your poly sci prof to lighten up on the indoctrination, and be thankful that we have money-grabbing corporations or else we'd all be living in mud huts. from each according to their ability doesn't work in the real world. now, i'm no fan of microsoft, but tell me this: how many people do you employ? how much do you pay in taxes? how many people use your software to run their businesses, etc. i own two ibooks, and have run linux on my pc's since '98. however, profit is not a dirty word. people pursue profit and it stimulates innovtion. why is it that people bitch up and down about "evil M$", yet barely say a word about all the hardware companies? eh? aren't they money grabbing? you like your dual core pentium 4's, well, they ain't making them because they're nice people.
  • by IAmMaxHarris ( 750973 ) on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @12:22AM (#13284026) Journal
    Anything that uses X-Windows will not get widespread user adoption.

    DesktopBSD looks good for a BSD, but it's still at least seven years behind the market.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @12:26AM (#13284037)
    Will you quit using the "Royal We"?

    OpenBSD is my main operating system, with some Linux on the side. I don't want BSD to be like Linux. That's why I use it instead of Linux. That's why people use BSD. It does the job for them in a way that they like better. If they wanted Linux, they'd use Linux.

    Both systems have their strengths. BSD is great if you want something lean. Linux is good if you want something very easy to maintain and don't mind a little GNU-bloat.* BSD is great if you want traditional Unix. Linux is good if you're not very philosophical and just want something that works. BSD is great if you don't want to recompile your kernel. Linux is great if you don't want to recompile your userland. BSD seems to consume less memory. Linux supports more binary-only software.

    The point is, they have different goals, different strengths and weaknesses. I'm not in any hurry to see them merge. In fact seeing people advocate that here on Slashdot annoys the hell out of me. And I can tell you, the BSD developers and Linux afficionados out there would find the idea stupid too. If you posted your comment to a developer mailing list, if there'd be any reply at all, it would be along the lines of, "No. That's ridiculous. Stop getting in the way of our work." Though perhaps more polite.

    * Yes, GNU has a noble goal but can be bloated. It's mostly bloated because it tries to be all things to all people. See the infamous GNU echo [gnu.org] joke.
  • by jmking1 ( 899043 ) on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @12:53AM (#13284131)
    Pointing out the Linux is just a kernel, calling the userland utilities "bloated", "random assorted crap", and "GNU junk" without anything to back these claims, and stating that BSD is a "nice" Unix system with a userland that is a "joy" to use aren't legitimate arguments against GNU/Linux, they're dumb insults that add nothing of value to this discussion.

    The documentation issue was the only intelligent point made. However, it was surrounded by a bunch of crap.

    Oh, and your "This is /. you can't post anti-Linux things here" post has been done about 10000 times before. And it still gets modded funny. Wow.

  • by pschmied ( 5648 ) on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @01:10AM (#13284193) Homepage
    I keep thinking that the world would be better off if more developers payed attention to GNUStep [gnustep.org].

    Why not do it in a sane way such as:
    • Pick your hardware support carefully. NetBSD is good for this as things either work really well (usually the case), or they aren't supported at all. (I can configure NetBSD to use my Atheros wireless card out of the box using ifconfig. In Linux I have to know to download a beta "Mad Wifi" driver.)
    • Concern yourself with building the building block app kits like Apple has done. One of Apple's programming examples is TextEdit, which ships with the OS! Apple is agile because they have all the tinker toys, they just need to glue them together now.
    • Work on the Gui integration bits (i.e. wireless network controls, network profiles, video resolutions, printer management, etc) but do it with a cleanly abstracted design. Make sure that each item works flawlessly with a common set of hardware before expanding hardware support or adding features.
    • Build a community of app developers who like consistent look and feel and adhere to UI guidelines.
    • Take advantage of cross pollination from Apple. Allow app developers to build for StepBSD and Apple reasonably easily.

    This is my hope for a desktop oriented BSD. I'm typing this from OS X on my powerbook, but I think the world still needs a compelling open platform.

    -Peter
  • by Brandybuck ( 704397 ) on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @01:54AM (#13284320) Homepage Journal
    but unfortunately it allows people to not 'share back' the stuff they took and improved.

    Sharing isn't the word your want. Sharing isn't about attaching strings to your generosity. The word you're looking for is "reciprocality". Please don't confuse the two.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @02:00AM (#13284338)
    I suspect Intel and AMD and most companies have much lower profit margins than Microsoft, and don't spend nearly as much time trying to screw the customer. There's a difference between an ordinary profit-seeking company, and a company that tries to squeeze as much money as possible from its customers -- and can get away with it.
  • by i_am_not_a_bomba ( 904443 ) on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @02:33AM (#13284407)
    Umm, I think using the word "revolutionised" is probably as over the top as claiming Linux running KDE or Gnome or whatever will "take over" the desktop market.

    My iBook (which is downstairs that i use every night), is no more or less revolutionary, better or worse than my PC that i use everyday that runs KDE.

    Both have things i love and rant about, that are new and different, both have things that shit me to tears.

    The difference? When i get shitty at KDE, or some OS application i think "It's free and look at the awsome stuff it does". When i get shitty at OSX, i think, "ooohh look the MIGHTY OSX being a pain in the arse, whats that? I need to spend *more money* on yet another stupid shareware application to perform some inane task like putting my iPhoto library into a different place?"

    Revolutionised indeed, a revolution would be holographic projectors that can read my thoughts or some awesome shit like that, little bouncing icons and an automatic window organiser is *not* revolutionary.

    (Sorry, just bitter after wrestling with OSX for a few hours yet again).

  • Comment removed (Score:3, Insightful)

    by account_deleted ( 4530225 ) on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @03:40AM (#13284547)
    Comment removed based on user account deletion
  • by Octorian ( 14086 ) on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @06:45AM (#13284875) Homepage
    Yeah, and my "Desktop Solaris" also looks like "your desktop Linux but with a different wallpaper" as well. (hint: I'm running KDE 3.4.1, with all the same software any "Linux user" would otherwise use as well)

    All that glorious "Linux software" you all gloat about is really not "Linux software". It's "UNIX-compatable software" and benefits users of just about any *NIX-like system out there.
  • by 10Ghz ( 453478 ) on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @06:56AM (#13284908)
    So, does *BSD have a *BSD-GUI that is a "joy to use", or do they use some some "random assorted crap from various sources"? On Linux I use KDE, and I'm toying with Gnome, but apparently those are crap. Could you point me to the *BSD-equivalent?

    What compilers do *BSD's use? Is it "GNU junk" or something else? What about X? X.org would be "crap from various sources", so apparently *BSD uses some uber-leet BSD-Xserver, right?
  • by dick johnson ( 660154 ) on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @08:38AM (#13285234)
    I know it's not a free download...

    But there already is an easy to use BSD for the desktop. It's called Mac OS X.

    Yes. Yes. I know it only runs on Apple hardware (at this point).
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @09:00AM (#13285335)
    >>openly admited that the high-end graphic cards were priced according to what people would pay for them

    Oooh! "openly admitted" it did he?

    Listen genius - important fact comming up: -

    EVERY product and service is priced according to what the market is prepared to pay for it!

    But in your world, I suppose I'll just have to sell my product for 20% less than people are prepared for it. A fine way to run a business that would be.

    The CEO in question is a CEO because he understands these basic facts. You on the other hand are just a clueless moron.
  • by brokenarmsgordon ( 903407 ) on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @09:30AM (#13285546)
    Hey now, don't reach too far, that Holy Grail of verbal sophistry just isn't worth it, Brunhilde.

    To use "in common with others" means that you and others draw from the same pool. There is absolutely no implication of a return.

    You don't share so you can get something out of it -- you share because it's the right thing to do. Imposing debt is not sharing.
  • Re:BSD v Linux (Score:3, Insightful)

    by rbanffy ( 584143 ) on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @10:18AM (#13285917) Homepage Journal
    We could think of them as both distros. A Linux distro uses a Linux kernel and a bunch of other tools while a BSD "distro" uses a BSD base system (analogous to the GNU+Linux combo) and a little smaller bunch of user-friendly GUI tools.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @11:19AM (#13286370)

    But I'll never, ever license anything under a BSD license. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...

    Shooting yourself in the foot? Why? Because you fear that someone else could use the code for their purposes leaving you out in the cold? You should have been smarter then. You're sounding pretty insecure there. You might want to see a counselor about that.

    The BSD license ensures that code (good code) is used for not matter what purpose. By nature, the BSD license is a very giving license.

    The only reason I'd not use BSD license and use a GNU license is if a) I was so insecure about myself that I'd think people could pofit from my code, b) I was being a selfish brat (I don't want anyone to have it unconditionally), c) I wanted to be an "indian" giver (you give, but you also take back). That's what GNU licenses, such as the GPL promote.

    Although, really if I did want to "protect" my code so that no one can profit from it then yeah I'd use GPL. Although, if I wanted everyone to benefit from it then I'd use BSD.

  • by bluGill ( 862 ) on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @11:32AM (#13286460)

    For most of the mid 80s to mid 90s, every year you could count on some major prediction that next year would be the year of the network. Never happened, without any explosive growth networks ended up anywhere.

  • by mrchaotica ( 681592 ) on Wednesday August 10, 2005 @02:03PM (#13287689)
    POSIX is great, but it doesn't go far enough. POSIX + LSB + FreeDesktop.org is more like what I'm talking about, but even it's just a start!

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