Modded Hybrid Cars Get Up to 250 MPG 1359
artemis67 writes "Politicians and automakers say a car that can both reduce greenhouse gases and free America from its reliance on foreign oil is years or even decades away. Ron Gremban says such a car is parked in his garage. It looks like a typical Toyota Prius hybrid, but in the trunk sits an 80-miles-per-gallon secret -- a stack of 18 brick-sized batteries that boosts the car's high mileage with an extra electrical charge so it can burn even less fuel. Gremban, an electrical engineer and committed environmentalist, spent several months and $3,000 tinkering with his car."
Update of an earlier Slashdot posting (Score:2, Interesting)
The interesting thing about the new article is that there evidently now a company that will take your Prius, plus $12,000, and convert it into an all-electric car.
Re:So like... (Score:5, Interesting)
Geo metro 50Mpg average, when I drive all highway I get 58mpg
why does a "hybrid" get much less gas mileage than my old technology simple internal combustion engine with a CARBERATOR? something is very wrong with these hybrids.
80 mpg for the first 20 miles is great for the stay at home mom that drive to the store or around a little bit. the majority of the american public lives more than that from work. Granted in cities where during rush hour you spend a majority of that time at under 10mph or stopped and these hybrids make great use of that time. but having to buy a $25,000.00 hybrid plud add 80 hours of my time tinkering and voiding the warrenty so I can add another $3000.00 worth of parts to it to finally get a MPG rating that a hybrid should have already had really bothers me.
How about the fricking SMART CAR already availabe in canada and get's 60Mpg on it's own?
Hybrids are crap, utter crap until they get on their worst day 50mpg. Let's force the US to allow the importing of the smartcar.
Re:I like these folks' idea: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Of course, that's cheating ... (Score:5, Interesting)
Wow, is it really that bad elsewhere in the country? On my last electric bill here in Maryland, I was paying $0.0585/kWh for electricity, and $0.0263/kWh for delivery... That's less than $0.08/kWh
I'm just thankful that my Saturn gets (Score:5, Interesting)
An RV posted for sale on the bulletin board at work gets 2.5 miles per gallon. Also posted are lots of SUV's that get 10-12mpg in town and 18-20mpg on the interstate. That's why folks are dumping those gas hogs.
BUT, as the price of gasoline crosses $3.50 to 4.00/gal even my car will be too expensive to drive. I believe $3/gal will arrive before Christmas, and $4/gal by the next Christmas, if not sooner. Luckily, work is only 3.7 miles away and I have a nice bike.
250 mpg? how about 75 mph? (Score:1, Interesting)
just lemme know when they can pass bicycles on the road.We need some ft/lbs of torque here.
how bout them horses?
how bout a car people will WANT to drive on the highway? with accelleration and everything?like bigger than a breadbox so it can be seen by tractor trailer drivers.
good job on hacking the mileage tho.
Re:That's all good, but.. (Score:3, Interesting)
If they had hybrids that can store more electrical energy, and they can just be charged while they sit in the garage all night and be good for the next morning, I think that will be a 'good thing'.
Re:EDrive FAQ (Score:1, Interesting)
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/08/0
Now let's go shopping for an equivalent electric motorcycle: http://www.electric-bikes.com/motorcys.htm [electric-bikes.com]
Hmm, see anything there with 320 km of range? They all seem to die after a maximum of 20-50 miles (32 to 80 km).
Of couse, no one I know has hydrogen to fill the ENV with, but I understand that you can buy a hydrogen generator that will fill the tank for 25 cents. Maybe these new-fangled fool cells aren't as far off as you think.
Some country have 75%+ nuclear (Score:3, Interesting)
But then again this always comes down to the US not wanting to go away from their oil policy, isn't it ? By the way did you know than exxon announced the peak of oil for non-opec oil (60% world crude production)in 5 years ? This time this is not an ecological kook which announced it, but an oil company. Funny that nobody is reporting it that much in the press...
hmm taxes? (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Of course, that's cheating ... (Score:3, Interesting)
The power into and out of a battery cycle has much lower efficiency than that.
Then there is some loss in control circuity between the battery and motor.
And, since the motors aren't directly coupled to the wheels, there is drivetrain loss.
They would be doing good to get 60% wall plug to tire patch on the ground system efficency.
The whole 250 mpg claim is BS too. He could have just as well made the claim based on the batteries only distance and claimed infinity mpg. The guy's a huxster.
When you;re running the gas on household electricity you aren't paying any gas/diesel highway taxes. To make the comparison fair, and valid in the long run, compare it to running a diesel on home heating fuel with no road taxes.
Re:Of course, that's cheating ... (Score:3, Interesting)
Evem 80MPG would stick it to the Saudi Royals (Score:2, Interesting)
Put it this way, my normal daily round-trip commute is 4.8 miles. This means I'd use only a gallon of fuel every 16.7 days, or a total of 15 gallons of gas a year, just to get back and forth to work. Even with gas at $3.00 a gallon it'd be a whopping $45.00 for the year.
With other travel my total bill would probably be $200 or less. Can't argue much with that.
Re:MPG (Score:5, Interesting)
So, why not just make a diesel hybrid? Best of both worlds, and if you only need to tank up every 800 miles don't tell me you can't find find a gas station that sells it...
Ruins the batteries (Score:3, Interesting)
Personally, in my garage I have a car that runs on straight used frying oil which I get free from local resturants. Much cheaper and if I run out of veg oil I can run on diesel
Re:Of course, that's cheating ... (Score:3, Interesting)
In a state like CA or NY, where wholesalers have been consolidated to 4-5 rather than 15-20, prices move twice a day. Gas is $2.70 in NY, $2.38 40 miles away in NJ. About $0.18 of that difference is tax, the rest is the gasoline market.
Notice that the old Standard Oil companies are getting together again and even foreign companies are merging... ExxonMobil, ChevronTexaco, BP-Amoco-Arco, etc. Less competition in oil production & refining = higher prices.
Re:easy! (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:MPG (Score:3, Interesting)
Actually i'll agree with you on the new turbo diesels. Some of the 80s passanger autos with diesels were not all that much better than their gas counterparts, but i'm starting to see a remarkable improvement. On trucks or an SUV... no contest, always been an improvement in terms of efficency.
The big issue in America is that diesel = bad. It's been a long time since I looked up the issue but the Volkswagon turbo diesel according to the VW website couldn't be ordered in a handful of states most notably California. And the pesky issue of finding a place to fill up a diesel. You can find them... but they are typicaly further away than your local petrol only stataion.
Re:So like... (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't think I'll buy a non-CVT car again, so I'm looking forward to them being standard. The kind of driving I do makes manual sort of impractical, and conventional automatic can be very annoying.
I should say though that, at least from my understanding, CVT will never be quite as efficient as a manual when it comes to highway mileage. The pulley design makes slippage sort of inherent, and although for city mileage that's allieviated by the engine being kept at the most efficient RPM, for highway mileage that doesn't help as much. Still more efficient than a regular automatic, though.
Re:You missed the point (Score:3, Interesting)
I'd rather see farmland in places like Ohio & Upstate NY be used as farmland, instead of being yet another place for asshats sick of citylife to throw up yet another cookie-cutter 4 bed/2.5 ba colonial on 1.2 acres.
We don't like the city asshats either, but on the other hand I am financially secure for the rest of my life because we sold my grandfathers farm for development.
And I am sure you would be glad to know that I get paid (YES PAID $$$) to actually NOT grow things on the farm I currently own. Isn't the gov't great!!!
And I hate to tell you, but most people buying these house on 1.2 acres can afford higher gas prices.
Here is the rub my friend- There are many people with a lot of $$$, and these people have 50K SUVs and 750K homes. A lot of intellectuals who went to great schools and feel intellectually superior to people who have big houses and cars, make 40-50K a year. They act like they hate the people with the 50K SUVs and and 750K homes because they pollute, when in actuality it is resentment that they feel smarter, yet have no $$$.
And we all would like to see more farmland used as farms. But with CAFTA, we are only going to see more produce from S America grown by people making 50 cents a day. And I personally know three farming families that had to sell the farm due to inheritance tax. 500 acres is worth way over the exemption.... Why do you think 99% of farmers are Republicans?
Re:So like... (Score:5, Interesting)
And the gas mileage is sweeeeet. I drive it on my commute every day and I only need to fill up every 2.5 weeks, yes, weeks. And even though gas costs about $4.00 a gallon here (you Americans think you have it bad, hahahaha...) I still spend less on gas per month on that car than I do when I visit the USA with other cars. I was in New York City and Boston in the past few weeks and was disgusted by how many Hummer H2's were driving around. A Smart is the PERFECT city vehicle, and it's just ignorance to dismiss it because of it's sensible size.
Re:So like... (Score:5, Interesting)
However, the problem isn't your family going on trips in an SUV. Most (relatively rational) people would agree that in your case, for that situation, it makes sense. What about when you aren't on trips, who uses it? Does someone use it to drive to the market every day, run errands, etc? That's where it starts to bother people.
Re:MPG (Score:3, Interesting)
Gas-electric hybrids work well because electric motors are well-suited to low-RPM, high-torque situations and gas engines are most efficient when driven at some particular, relatively high, RPM. The electric motor is used at low speed and in stop and go situations, and the gas engine is used in the regime in which it is most efficient.
The sweet spot for diesel engines is in the lower-RPM, higher-torque regime, so a diesel-electric hybrid would have two engines that work well in city traffic, and none that works well on the freeway.
Again, look it up for yourself to verify the details.
Re:Of course, that's cheating ... (Score:3, Interesting)
In CA, yes, that's a conservative number...
Re:So like... (Score:3, Interesting)
Already available [zapworld.com] in the US.
Re:MPG (Score:2, Interesting)
Having said that, hybrid diesel for buses has been on market for a while, so hybrid diesel in passenger cars may not be too far off in markets that tolerate it...
Re:So like... (Score:4, Interesting)
I drive the SUV about 10,000 miles/year. $4/gallon gas will cost me about $2,000. No problem for me. Those who cannot afford gas will need to find new cars. The market will take care of it.
The real problem is that everything is moved via truck and made out of plastic. SUV or not, rising petroleum prices are going to cascade into everything else anyway.
Re:Update of an earlier Slashdot posting (Score:2, Interesting)
But just to humor you, consider this, if more people stopped attacking the technology which quite simply a) decreases dependency in the public sector on oil and b) encourages growth in other energy consumptive technologies that decrease harmful emissions and started buying into this the price would drop considerably. At any rate, as soon as i get a new job making a yearly income equal to the top of the line model they produce, i am buying one. Because i should, not because its the best value at this moment!
Plagiarism at it's best (Score:3, Interesting)
From the article:
Notice any similarity between the two? This is plagiarism [wikipedia.org]. If you're a regular reader of
Canabis car (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:So like... (Score:5, Interesting)
I also don't know why but some of the most dangerous driving I have seen was done in the largest suvs. Things like the hummer and those suburban things. I watched someone yesterday on the freeway change lanes right into one a smaller car was already occupying. The person swerved very quickly and avoided the accident but there is no reason it should have happened. The car would not have been in their blind spot it just seemed like they did not see it. My guess is that people in those larger vehicles are only looking at vehicles that they see as a threat, ie the same size or larger and so they are a far more serious threat to other vehicles on the road.
I know there are some legitimate reasons to have them. The mountain rescue service around here has hummers that they use for rescues but they should not be used for regular driving around.
Re:So like... (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't care if it bothers other people. They have no right to be in my busines, and neither does the government which you probably wish would regulate SUVs. Let me drive what I want and I wil let you drive what you want. I'm not complaining, why are you?
I am so damn tired of hearing this new liberal slashdot rhetoric. What happened to all the libertarians that used to congregate here?
Reminds me of the old Texas saying (I realize Bush doesn't adhere to this so piss off): Leave me the hell alone and I'll leave you the hell alone.
Re:So like... (Score:4, Interesting)
What I would love to see, however, is for them to realize that their arrangement is rude and try to come up with something less intrusive. I would also love to see people with tall vehicles of all types (minivans, SUVs, mail trucks, delivery vans, etc.) to avoid parking in parallel spaces very near intersections, because tall vehicles in these spaces obstruct the view of cross traffic. No reason to call the cops, I would just appreciate some courtesy. I would appreciate it if engineers designing SUVs that will drive a vast majority of their miles on congested roads designed the headlights with some concern for the other drivers on those roads. Some SUVs have unreasonably high headlights that shine directly into the rear- and side-view mirrors of regular cars and blind the drivers. Particularly these new high-intensity headlights. Perhaps if the high headlights provide the best visibility on dark rural roads, certain big vehicles need a city-driving headlight setting where the lights are aimed lower as well as normal and high-beams.
Personally SUVs don't bother me by themselves... however, their drivers should take it upon themselves to drive with caution and courtesy, knowing that large vehicles simply by virtue of their size can cause lots of problems in congested traffic. These aren't problems that can be solved by the government, but they are problems that require that drivers care if they bother other people.
Re:That's all good, but.. (Score:1, Interesting)
However, the 4 stroke engines found on mowers and other outdoor power equipment are a major offender. As you say they "haven't even gone after the low-hanging fruit" for emissions.
All that said...my 15hp tractor eats my whole yard in about a half hour, allowing me to do it more often, so the grass clippings are smaller and easier for the lawn to be fertilized by, so I don't have to dump chemicals on it for it to look good, and the chemicals run off and pollute the pretty lake I see out my front windows. Well, in theory -- I just got the tractor, and I mostly wouldn't bother with the chemicals for a nice lawn...just too damned lazy.
Gas?? (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:So like... (Score:2, Interesting)
The metro sold very well for what it was, the problem is that you can not find many on the used market because the owners do not want to sell them and very few are in junkyards as well, but you see lots of them on the roads. Metro's have a huge following. if you used a synthetic oil in the engine they did not lose efficency at all as they aged. I have 2 one with 209,000 miles on it and the replacement that has 75,000 miles on it they BOTH get darn near the same gas mileage. (I used to have a honda insight, I sold it because it's SMALLER than a metro, less useable than a metro and has a cost of ownership in simply the maintaince department that is well over 5X the cost of maintaince of the Geo and honestly has no real history behind them.. nobody can tell me what they do when they hit 300,000 miles and 7 years of age. There are metros out there that are still runinning strong with over 300,000 miles on them. "built light" is a piece of FUD that was touted at the chevy dealers in order to deter people from buying the GEO line that was on the same lot. There was not a big markup on the cars so the sales people hated to sell them for a low commission. Coupled with the fact they were not advertised they did not sell well if you compare it to the top sellers of ford or chevy or gm, but for an import they did sell very well.
I suggest you actually learn about the Geo/Suzuki a bit more, they are extremely well built for their cost, the engines themselves were pretty darn impressive in durability and lack of wear as the miles piled on. the little things had rack and pinion steering, they handle quite well, the 4cyl 4 door sedan would get on average 38mpg highway/city and had a notoriously reliable motor.
And I drive 75-80 in mine every single day, it handles as good as any other car (outside of a sports car) and adding the low rolling resistance tires from a honda insight (rubber was really close in size) drastically increased my gas mileage 4-5mpg on highway.
My daily commute on 696 in Detroit every day proves that these lightly built cars with only 55hp can certianly work well in highway traffic.
How about Thermal Depolymerization? (Score:3, Interesting)
There are efforts going on to advance the technology of Thermal Depolymerization. [kantor.com]
That's a ten dollar word for "oil from pretty much any biological waste" including turkey offal and medical waste (what they're using now.)
Doesn't do anything for greenhouse gasses or global warming, mind you, but as a solution to Foreign Oil Dependency, it sounds like an interesting concept.
And you can make the case that perhaps the car companies need to be getting behind this technology in order to make sure that there's a device that will consume all this lovely thermally depolymerized chicken crap.
But what do I know?
Re:Even compared to other new non hybrids..... (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm purchasing one in a few weeks (civic). I'm a person. And I'm not alone...89,000 americans have also taken the plunge [theautochannel.com].
While I realize it doesn't make economic sense (it will take me about 4 years to save enough on gas given how much I drive), I'm doing it because I'm an idealist: if I vote with my dollars that alternative vehicles are what I want, I hope that Honda will invest more R&D dollars in the technology (either hybrid or fuel cell) to make something even better down the road...
Especially when the hybrid version gets only ~6mpg more in city driving, and 1 mpg worse in highway, where I do half to three-quarters my driving.
I've been driving my friend's '04 civic hybrid a lot lately, since she has two of them
From what I recall, the Toyota Prius gets even better gas mileage than the civic (with the invention of CVT, standard shift is my guilty pleasure, I guess), and I know the Insight gets above 60mpg in real-world driving.
has currently unknown failure rate and repair costs is too much for a 'neat toy'.
The Honda Insight has been out since 2000, so the tech is 5 years old (technically 6 in "car years", since the 2000 model was introduced around this time of year in 1999). I haven't seen or heard about any problems with the motors (gas or electric), just a few recalls on the headlights and airbags and things that are typical with any car. I've got a friend with a 2000 Insight, she hasn't had anything odd go wrong in her 160,000 miles (a set of CV joints that cost $200 more total to replace has been the only major repair so far). Another pal has two civic hybrids, one from '03 (50k), one from '04(30k), and neither has had any issues. I think the "when something goes wrong" issue is kind of a moot point.
Peace,
Reid
Hybrids should read Hype-brids. (Score:1, Interesting)
Gas for cars is produced as an integrated part of oil refining. The oil companies have invested billions and billions of dollars in distillation equipment and infrastructure that relies on gasoline being refined out of crude oil and sold. As long as we use oil for heating, lubrication and countless other things, gasoline will be part of process. If you mess with the supply and demand aspect of gasoline all other oil-based products will fluctuate madly. The refiners rely on revenues from gasoline to help pay for the process. The carbon chains that you burn on the way to work still have to be removed from crude to produce yet higher grades of petroleum products. Consider what happens if you turn those carbon chains into manufacturing waste or other less profitable products. All those plastic parts on your hybrid (including the battery cases) will shoot up in price.
Re:Of course, that's cheating ... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:I want to see. . . (Score:3, Interesting)