The Tech Used to Catch Vegas Cheats 321
Black Jack writes "Interesting piece on silicon.com about the technology used in Vegas for catching the cheats. It goes into detail on a number of things from facial recognition and RFID to some CIA-developed systems for background checking staff. Surprised they're so open about what they do! ...or is this just the stuff they admit to?"
'cheat' is realative (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Fucking terrorist blackjack card counters! (Score:4, Informative)
Card Counting is NOT Cheating!!!! (Score:5, Informative)
On a behavioural level such intelligence could also flag up 'one to watch' - for example a player laying $5 bets while sitting with $100,000 of chips in his or her pocket. This is certainly no cause for concern in its own right but such behaviour would in the past have caught notorious card counters waiting for the odds to fall in their favour or getting their eye in and honing a system.
While I will agree with the casinos' rights as a business to ask ANYONE to leave their casino for whatever reason, I just want to point out to everyone that card counting is NOT cheating and that people who in engage in card counting are simply using the casino rules and game's strategy to their best advantage. Both Las Vegas and Reno gambling laws state that cheating is defined as manipulating the rules of the game, or using devices to get around the rules of the game, not using the rules to your advantage, thus card counting is not illegal according to Nevada state laws (and many, if not all other state laws as well).
Re:'cheat' is realative (Score:5, Informative)
While card counting and strategies like it (by natural means, not counting using a computer or some such gimmick) isn't cheating, they are well within your rights to refuse to offer you a particular game or bar you completely from the premises. Most casinos share this info with each other since it is all within each others best interests to keep these people out, and before long, a cardcounter is persona non grata pretty much everywhere on the strip.
Check out Bringing Down the House by Ben Mezrich.
Re:Making Your Own Tokens (Score:4, Informative)
Re:'cheat' is realative (Score:5, Informative)
If a game is not a game of chance, but a game of skill, then the law does not allow casinos to host that game. So on one hand, casinos want to ban card counters, but on the other hand they don't want to admit that skillfull players can play better than players relying purly on luck. Blackjack brings in a LOT of money for casinos. They want to keep that money stream coming.
Re:What about online poker? (Score:4, Informative)
I've been playing online for some time now and I haven't noticed anyone cheating. It's been fun and profitable for me. YMMV.
Re:Not giving much away (Score:4, Informative)
Easily faked, but not necessarily usable. Imagine if each chip had a unique encrypted serial number, and the casino had the ability to track each chip's location and compare to a central database.
If you duplicated the RFID on a chip, you'd set off alarms, as there would be 2 of the same chip in the casino. If you managed to crack the encryption and create your own unique serial number you'd set off alarms as chips would be in the casino which were not in the database.
Even a simple system which doesn't need to be aware of all chips in circulation offer great security. Just track the RFID of the chip when it is played to the database of chips in the bank, and in circulation. If the ID is in the bank, or doesn't appear in the database then you know a dupe has been played. Other dupes of the same chip could not be played without setting off alarms until that first chip has exited the bank, which could be a long time (and it would be very difficult for a player to know when or if it happens).
Re:Who's the cheat? (Score:4, Informative)
Payout schemes are locked in each machine in the presence of a gaming control agent. They have ways to tell if a machine has been tampered with. Gaming in Vegas is quite on the level- people just forget that a casino won't engage in a game of chance unless it is favored to win.
And there's plenty of homeless people on the streets here in Vegas, so come on down with your roll of cash...
Re:Card Counting is NOT Cheating!!!! (Score:1, Informative)
Your comment is meaningless when you look at this qoute from the OP: "While I will agree with the casinos' rights as a business to ask ANYONE to leave their casino for whatever reason"
Please make a relevant response next time, thank you.
Re:Aren'te they more worried about employees... (Score:5, Informative)
You probably haven't been "back of house" in a casino, but there are craploads of security and surveillance where only the employees go.
Re:Internet Casinos (Score:3, Informative)
Of course, they don't allow collusion, because if other players start to lose a lot, they might not want to play as much. And the online poker rooms do watch out for collusion. But it's not nearly as big a concern as Vegas cheaters.
Re:'cheat' is realative (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Who's the cheat? (Score:5, Informative)
No, they can't. First of all that's illegal, and is tracked. Second the machines simply aren't built to allow that. Slot machine have a locked "theoretical hold" value which is the theoretical long term amount that the machine will retain as a percentage of turnover. It is fixed, tracked and cannot be changed - certainly not at the click of the mouse.
What a casino can and will do is lay out the machines on the floor with theoretical hold as a consideration. That is, they will endeavour to put a bank of relatively low hold nickel or dime machines near the entrance (not at the entrance mind you, the machine right at the front will be dollar machines or the like: they want casual gamblers wandering by to play the high stake slots) so you get to hear the sound of people winning. The rest of the floor layout is just as carefully designed, taking into account the theoretical hold, popularity of the game type, denomination of the game, quality of the floor space (harder to quantify), and so on to maximise profit. I used to work in the R&D department for a software company that helped casinos do this more effectively, so believe me, I know how exacting they are.
Jedidiah.
I used to work in a Vegas in Tahoe (Score:1, Informative)
Of course there is the safe, which was underground, and had like only two entrances.
Of course I saw three people shot dead, in my three months there too. Mostly stupid people, as the casinos definetly do attract mostly stupid people. One guy came around to the employee entrance, and called out the security manager. One woman was thrown out, one night for threating the life of a dealer, when she came back, all hostile they kept her at the door for the police. When she put her hand into her purse, blam blam.
They had the security guards there work two shifts, one watching the cameras, and one on the floor. This made for far better security, when they saw suspicious people, they could later keep an eye on them. When they were on the floor.
Watching out for card counters was the business of everyone in the casino. You went to classes to learn who to watch out for. They were very interesting. Basically they taught you to watch for people who had "regular" winning patterns, and used patterned betting. People using patterned betting are the first to go, primarily because they feel it's probably a card counter.
Also there are cameras everywhere, not to mention wireless cameras everywhere traveling on different people. They have people with wireless cameras who go through and play games all night long, and watch the other players.
When a large jackpot is won at a particular machine, no less than 10 cameras will focus in on that machine to watch it. As there have been a number of reports of stalkers who then attack a person sitting at the winning machine, and try to take credit for it.
Re:What about online poker? (Score:3, Informative)
Let's say you have a flush draw. You're friend is on, and you're chatting with him offsite at the same time. You're concerned someone has full house, a higher flush, 4 of a kind, or a straight flush. If he has cards that negate any of those possibilities, then you'll be more aggressively because you now have better odds. This naturally increases if you're playing with more people.
A card counter wouldn't really work, because the deck would be reshuffled every hand. As for during the hand, most good poker players can figure out their outs in their head anyway.
Re:Making Your Own Tokens (Score:3, Informative)
Really? What casinos do you go to? Last time I was in Harrah's in NOLA, most all the machines still took metal tokens. They had started a few machines that would pay out the barcoded slip of paper you could cash in...I think it gives you a choice.
I personally don't think that will catch on too well...people are attracted to the sound of coins hitting the payout bin...
If they get rid of that...I think it will hurt the slot games decidedly.
Re:Making Your Own Tokens (Score:3, Informative)
Re:What about online poker? (Score:2, Informative)
Yup...this was a few years back. They seeded the RNG with the system time, so between your cards and the flop you could figure out what everybody else's cards were. Haven't heard of anything in the past 3-4 years though.
Re:Their house, their rules - not illegal (Score:3, Informative)
From the NGC's website:
"NRS 465.075 Use of device for calculating probabilities. It is unlawful for any person at a licensed gaming establishment to use, or possess with the intent to use, any device to assist:
1. In projecting the outcome of the game;
2. In keeping track of the cards played;
3. In analyzing the probability of the occurrence of an event relating to the game; or
4. In analyzing the strategy for playing or betting to be used in the game, except as permitted by the Commission."