Sony and Toshiba Give Up On Unified DVD Format 339
HoTiCE_ is one of several to let us know, Reuters is reporting Sony and Toshiba have apparently given up efforts to develop a unified format for next-generation DVDs. The two companies had opened up negotiations but they fell through due to time constraints on new products from both groups.
Dual format? (Score:3, Interesting)
DRM will kill them (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:Whatever (Score:4, Interesting)
And what are you going to display them on?
You'll have one dual-format HD-DVD/Blu-Ray player. It'll have two outputs. One will pipe HDMI video to your Toshiba HDTV. The other will pipe HDMI video to your Sony HDTV.
Why the second HDTV? Well, how else did you think you were going to watch any movies made by Sony Pictures? :)
And why does Sony Pictures have the right to make sure that Sony's movies are only released on Sony-formatted DVDs that will decode correctly only on Sony HDMI screens? Well, they asked for the Betamax precedent to be overtu~`~~~
Petard-hoisting error -- industry dumped
Lemmings... (Score:2, Interesting)
Then we as consumers need to band together (Score:1, Interesting)
I don't know about the rest of you, but I for one am tired of the mess these companies have made of the entire media industry.
DLT, SDLT, LTO, SLTO, 3480, 3490, 3590, QIC (and it's miriad of formats), VHS, VHS-C, 4mm, 8mm, DVC, CD-R, CD+R, CD-RW, CD+RW, DVD-RAM, DVD-R, DVD+R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, dual layer, single layer, half inch, on and on, ad nauseum.
Let's see them come up with a single multi-purpose format, sans DRM and then get it into production.
Re:Dual format? (Score:5, Interesting)
I wonder actually what is so different between the two formats.. the way it's
encoded on the disk, right? Isn't this a SOFTWARE issue (drive firmware) more
than anything, or is there really some strangeness involved that I am missing.
Maybe the dual-layer (and triple-layer) technologies use incompatible ways of
focussing the laser; but isn't that also down to software and the use of another
lens (like CDRW/DVD drives have already..)
I dunno, really.. I don't have access to the specs. Who does? Who can make a
really informed statement that dual-format drives will be possible?
The trouble then is which format will the industry pick?
I would say HD-DVD - because it's inherent cheapness (same disc layout as DVD,
same manufacturing facilities and little changes to machinery will make it as cheap
if not cheaper than DVD). Blu-Ray requires people to retool.
Blu-Ray may end up being the custom format that runs the Playstation 3, like UMD
is the custom format that runs the PSP, Matsushita's discs were the custom format that ran the Gamecube, and GD-ROM was the custom format that ran the Dreamcast.
Besides Sony releasing their own movies in Blu-Ray format for the PS3 and a clutch of Sony & Samsung players, why would any cheap-ass (and we're all cheapasses at heart) bother with it? Remember in the VHS/Betamax war, Sony lost at the end of the day. They are not infallible and we shouldn't just think that because they have the Playstation that they will not lose again.
Neko
HD is doomed (Score:3, Interesting)
Very few consumers are clamoring for it - there's low demand. Early adopters are already gonna be shafted because both new formats will require HDMI - and the HD sets sold before this summer didn't have that - and A/V receivers still don't have that. (yes except for 3 $3K and up models I'm aware of)
HDCP and it's variants (and competitors) still aren't final, there's no guarantee anything HD purchased this year will interoperate, or play media from next year.
The great American consumer is going to have major issues with their very expensive new toys not working - even if us geeks are OK with a couple of firmware upgrades on our consumer electronics per year, there's gonna be a lot of helpdesk calls...
Re:DRM will kill them (Score:2, Interesting)
The common they're/their/there, its/it's, should have/should of spring to mind...
Yet it doesn't prevent them from having a job that pays nicely. I find it looks highly unprofessional, most of them don't seem to know about spell checkers either.
Plus, I've people that weren't rich that had expensive things like this. They just overspend then eat a lot of kraft dinner... Sad but it happens.
Re:My Prediction (Score:2, Interesting)
Then wouldn't the stupid reason be the price? I still buy VHS because the movies are always cheaper, and with a good VCR there is little difference in quality.
Re:Well that certainly makes the decision easier. (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:My Prediction (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Same as SACD/DVD-Audio (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyway, on the similarity, Blu-Ray and HD-DVD both use the same laser wavelength, and I think with a little jiggering, the same optical heads could read both. The both more or less use the same set of audio standards, both support three different video codecs, and both use the same basic encryption standards. I'm not sure about HD-DVD, but Blu-Ray supports overlaying video streams onto the main video, which could be nifty.
Re:It's Like a Presidential Election... (Score:3, Interesting)
Not only that, we have a 3-1/2th choice: DVD+divx/mp4
Next gen mp4 players will certainly be able to render in pseudo hi-def, which will be "good enough" for the large percentage of people who don't have HD sets compatible with the latest DRM. And since they'll be mass-produced in China for a fraction of the cost of Blu-Ray/HD-DVD, there's a chance those latter two formats will go the way of SACD/DVDA.
Re:My Prediction (Score:2, Interesting)
if your working tv... (Score:3, Interesting)
Now picture this: "if your working HD-DVD player sits on top of your other working, but less used, Blue-Ray DVD player which sits on top of your other working standard DVD player you might be a pissed off consumer."
Having too many formats is just going to result in unhappy consumers and I'm going to get calls from the people who know I make things work because they bought a HD-DVD player but a movie on a BlueRay disk and BestBuy won't take it back because it's opened and since it's a DVD it can only be exchanged to exactly the same thing, not a different disk format.
True nature of this fight. . . (Score:5, Interesting)
Blu-ray is an effort to get around the 6C patents and Toshiba owned patents. When Sony and co. approached Toshiba/NEC/Warner in forming a unified format, one of the conditions that was put in place was to keep the 6C patents in place, and merely keep the software aspect of Blu-ray. This of course is why an agreement cannot be reached. Neither side has any reverance for the consumer.
Who needs discs? (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Bad news for us (Score:3, Interesting)
On the other hand, as a self-professed media junkie, I could care less at this point whether or not there's a next-generation-DVD war. A DVD played on a progressive-scan DVD player with component-out is pretty damn good, and I can record all I want on my VCR. I don't need to buy next generation DVD hardware to watch a movie at home.
There were two significant reasons to jump from VHS to DVD - quality and convenience. The quality difference between a $50 VCR and a $50 DVD player is astounding. I also don't have to rewind my DVDs, and they won't wear out after I play one fifteen times. Several Baby Einstein DVDs can attest to this fact, having been played hundreds of times each.
And I *like* buying the next and greatest shiny thing. Folks like my parents, who still watch VHS tapes along with their formidable DVD collection, see no reason why they should upgrade to a better format. If it so happens that they stop making DVDs and switch over to HD or Blu, well, there's a reason for you, but otherwise, they simply don't care, and I suspect that there's more folks out there like my parents than there are like me.
Re:Even worse... (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:True nature of this fight. . . (Score:4, Interesting)
Really, I just don't get it. Is everyone (except Sony) playing both sides of the fence?
Re:One word: (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Same as SACD/DVD-Audio (Score:4, Interesting)
The fact that even $50 DVD players have digital 5.1 audio out, yet can't play a bloody DVD Audio disc. It's only a matter of piping the bloody digital data from the disc to the outputs.
Why? I bet it is licensing. DVD Audio would have been the outright winner by now if it had been included in standard DVD players. But no, I'm sure the audio market got all scared and said 'No' to that, so they could continue to sell their expensive dedicated players. Sadly, because of the format war, like someone else pointed out above, 90% of the market disappeared, so they made less money in the end. I also expect there is some DRM reason, if the audio was available in DRM-removed format on a 5.1 digital output, then it can easily be stolen!
Maybe Sony or Toshiba should look at that and think how bad this is for their business. But no, they won't, it doesn't apply to them, they're too big for that, they're too proud to admit it. I'm hoping that because it happened once already, it will happen again. DVDs are good enough, except for the minor percentage of people that have 60"+ HDTVs that will notice the encoding blockiness.
In the meantime, my local superstore is selling new DVDs from 97p each. Sure, the 97p DVDs aren't blockbuster films, but you can't go wrong with over an hour of classic cartoons and so on for that price.
Re:Whatever (Score:3, Interesting)
I say earlier than that! Given how fast optical drive technology has advanced in the last few years a combo HD-DVD/Blu-Ray reader drive that uses either ATA-100 or Serial ATA interfaces could be out as early as late 2006, with recorder drives coming out soon afterwards.
Why so early? Mostly because both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray discs can use the same drive tray system used by CD recorders and DVD+R/DVD-R recorders. It's only a matter of incorporating the right electronics and proper laser unit for the whole scheme to work.
Four or Five are practical (Score:3, Interesting)