FEMA Demands Use of IE To File Online Katrina Claims 1165
WebHostingGuy writes "As reported by MSNBC, if you survived the hurricane and are a Mac, Linux or Firefox user you cannot file a claim online. Further, you must have javascript enabled or face rejection. From the site: 'We are sorry for not being able to proceed your requests because you have failed our tests.' Opera and Netscape don't work either." Also reported at InformationWeek. From that story: "To file a claim online at FEMA's Individual Assistance Center, where citizens can apply for government help, the browser must be IE 6.0 or later with JavaScript enabled. That cuts out everyone running Linux or the Mac operating systems, as well as Windows users running alternate browsers such as Firefox or Opera. When TechWeb tested the site using Windows XP and Firefox 1.0.6, the message 'In order to use this site, you must have JavaScript Enabled and Internet Explorer version 6. Download it from Microsoft or call 1-800-621-FEMA (3362) to register' popped up on the screen." Update: 09/08 13:48 GMT by Z : Added word 'Online' to title to clarify story.
you know... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Virtual PC (Score:1, Interesting)
Nothing for you to see here. Please move along. (Score:1, Interesting)
Look at the destruction in New Orleans and Biloxi. Do you really think that there are any/many people filing FEMA claims via the internet?
ADA? (Score:5, Interesting)
Doesn't the disabilities act apply to FEMA? And doesn't that require a certain level of website?
Sorry but the subject of this article is misleadin (Score:3, Interesting)
Just Another Asinine Hurdle (Score:1, Interesting)
I live in the United States and pretty much like it here. But this kind of stupid shit, coupled with all the freedom we've given up for the sake of "greater security," makes me want to bitch-slap the entire Federal government.
No, no, no (Score:3, Interesting)
Disasters may be the worst time for requiring proprietary systems.
There has been some discussion on isc.sans.org about the Red Cross needing IT volunteers to develop their system.
My idea is that most of us have extra stuff laying around that could easily be used with a customized Knoppix type CD (no HD keeps the cost down and the system intact up). The systems could be used to get shelters online (some corp can provide the circuit for Internet access). On the backend there could be a DB for victims.
Also, a lot of these people have lost EVERYTHING. A barebones computer that gets them online is better than no computer at all.
And what better way to introduce more people the world without MS.
Re:you know... (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:ADA? (Score:5, Interesting)
"The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is committed to providing access to our web pages for individuals with disabilities, both members of the public and Federal employees.
To meet this commitment, we will comply with the requirements of Section 508 of the Rehabilitation Act. Section 508 requires that individuals with disabilities, who are members of the public seeking information or services from us, have access to and use of information and data that is comparable to that provided to the public who are not individuals with disabilities, unless an undue burden would be imposed on us. Section 508 also requires us to ensure that Federal employees with disabilities have access to and use of information and data that is comparable to the access to and use of information and data by Federal employees who are not individuals with disabilities, unless an undue burden would be imposed on us.
If you use assistive technology (such as a Braille reader, a screen reader, TTY, etc.) and the format of any material on our web sites interfere with your ability to access the information, please contact FEMAOPA@dhs.gov for assistance. To enable us to respond in a manner most helpful to you, please indicate the nature of your accessibility problem, the preferred format in which to receive the material, the web address of the requested material, and your contact information."
Re:you know... (Score:1, Interesting)
"Go to FEMA Online Registration/Individual Assistance Center" and disabled cookies, to see the page tries to load in an infinite loop.
Using Firefox and when prompted about cookies, set to deny.
"Loading..."
Refreshes
"Loading..."
Refreshes
The actual site is:
https://disasteraid.fema.gov/ [fema.gov]
Maybe they have been
Re:you know... (Score:2, Interesting)
<sarcasm> Yes, he controls the FEMA website. He is also responsible for the school crossing guard not showing up to get my kids across the road. We can place all blame on the president. </sarcasm>
I realize that all levels of government have some degree of responsibility, but the people much closer to the situation really needed to be more prepared before Katrina hit.
Re:you know... (Score:5, Interesting)
http://www.denverpost.com/katrina/ci_2999761 [denverpost.com]
I think Bush can take some heat for this kind of miss-use of the public trust. These are not choice political plums to be given to big contributers or supporters but to qualified hard working capable individuals with credentials for the job. Especially when the lives of our mother and fathers and sons and brothers and daughters and uncles and neices are involved.
The buck needs to stop where the fundemental problems stem from, not only where the problems show up.
And the catch is... (Score:2, Interesting)
"unless an undue burden would be imposed on us"
Who, exactly, decides what is an "undue burden" and what is their criteria for deeming it so?
Re:STOP WHINING! (Score:4, Interesting)
The phone service will only mail you forms to your home address, either being useless as they don't have mail service or an address to deliver to, or delaying their movement through the system for no reason.
The alternative is the web based form, however, in the shelters the only computers available are donated ones. Many of these do not have WindowsXP installed, and even if they did, the disaster workers are using putting in a standard Knoppix boot to greatly simplify administration and such. Not to mention avoid license issues.
So they cannot access the forms this way either, again needlessly delaying their progress. This is forcing many people to wait until the disaster is over, and FEMA gets around to placing kiosks where people can go to sign up.
Not only is this inefficient for FEMA, but it's stupid to make people in a shelter with a computer and internet access unable to fill out the forms NOW.
By requireing IE6 - FEMA is saying that people need to donate new computers or ones with paid up licenses (and how does one do that anyway? Lots of red tape) vs giving any functional hardware from the last 12 years or so and a non legally encumbered CD the aid workers can pop-in.
I'll buy that... for a millionth of a cent (Score:2, Interesting)
or maybe 25. I'm just a kid so I don't know.
Can I ask a follow-up question? When, if ever, did it first occur to FEMA that people registering/applying via the Web might be a Good Thing? This week?
Re:you know... (Score:5, Interesting)
The MD is a raving MS fanboy, and shortly after arriving I was informed in no small measure that I was developing for IE, and "if the site doesn't work in any of those other browsers, who cares".
(One of the funny things is, we actually produce Mac versions of some of our products, but the MD apparently doesn't care that most of those users wouldn't be able to see our site (or assumes they'll download IE/Mac, because it's Microsoft, so it must always be the best option).)
Happily (and because my boss(es) don't know any better), I've coded everything to standards and used a few quick CSS/markup hacks to get everything still looking nice in IE.
Since I started we've had three "it'll never happen" situations with (potentially extremely profitable) users using different browsers or OSes, and happily the site's worked perfectly for them.
We've also had one "it'll never happen" situation where I did actually give in and do it the way the Board specified (dynamic content served by ASP.NET instead of Perl, on a server too old to support ASP.NET reliably). Because our (cheap, crappy) hosting contract is on a Linux machine, we have to host all ASP.NET content on another (in-house) server, and seamlessly (heh, make that "as seamlessly as we can") transfer users between the main part of the site (static HTML on Apache/Linux) and the dynamic pages (ASP.NET/Windows Server).
Predictably enough the tiny pipe into the inhouse servers went down, and we ended up with a convoluted sequence of events that lead to us needing to host an ASP.NET page on the (external) Linux server. Due to the crappiness of the hosting contract they were unable to offer (or the MD was unwilling to pay) for the service, so the site had huge sections missing for several days, mostly important advertising campaign landing-pages which provide the majority of marketing leads for the company.
Had I been allowed to develop the content in the language I specified (Perl/PHP, simply for the portability), this would never have happened - we could have transferred the dynamic pages to the Linux server at no extra cost (in fact they would probably have already been there), and the site would have carried on as normal.
The morals of the story are this:
Never disobey your boss on technical matters, even when he has no fucking clue what he's babbling about. That's how you get fired.
If you can possibly obey the letter of his instructions (but disobey the spirit) and do it the right way, go for it - just cover your arse and don't spend an unreasonable amount of extra time.
People who know nothing about technical matters should let their fucking techies make technical decisions. You pay them for a reason, and if anyone could do their job why not fire them and hire a schoolkid for a fraction of the money?
"It'll never happen" scenarios pop up 100% of the time, given enough time. Your techies know this, and will sensibly plan for it. With sufficiently good techies (and budget) you never suffer the consequences of a bad technical decision, so you don't and won't.
In other words, get good techies, then get the fuck out of the way and let them do their job.
Not uncommon. (Score:3, Interesting)
As of last year, most of the buyers began requiring the farmers to file their spray reports (records of fertilizers and pesticides) electronically. The means of filing differed between two major buyers -- one is via the web, the other via a spreadsheet and emailed. The web version - IE only (no mac's, no *nix, no alternative browsers). The other, an Excel spreadsheet that does not like opening in OOo.
(In all honesty, that has opened up a nice side service for my business...)
My point is not to detract from the tragedy that has befallen the victims of Katrina, only to point out that it is not uncommon for decision makers (who's very decisions effect a group's livelihood) to make unwise decisions.
I would be interested to see if there's an increase in sales of x86 laptops on ebay (or any used market) specifically for Mac users who need to file with FEMA. (Just as interesting would be to see if there's an increase in sales of Crossover Office).
<sarcasm> Maybe's there's grant money there for a study.</sarcasm>.
Re:you know... (Score:3, Interesting)
However, when you've got the worst disaster in US history going, the army (and even National Guard!) are undermanned and bled dry from a protracted, possibly unwinnable (and certainly unpopular and ethically dubious) war, disaster-recovery funds will be harder to find because the economy's been run into the ground, the head of the federal agency responsible for dealing with exactly these kinds of disasters is a completely unqualified guy who only got the job because he's friends with the President, the president refuses all foreign aid for the disaster and delays any definite action for several days while he has a few rounds of golf on his ranch and sits and plays guitar [dailykos.com], well... don't tell me that lives couldn't have been saved if he'd got off his arse, cut his vacation short and done something sooner.
I'm not even from the USA (I'm in the UK), and I've been outraged by Bush sitting on his thumbs for days, while people in NO too poor to leave die from lack of water, or from drinking water contaminated with toxic waste or raw sewage.
He was all over 9/11 when there was a clear enemy and political capital to be made from it. When it's merely a case of knuckling down and solving a problem, his true colours emerge - he's either dangerously incompetent or really doesn't give a fuck.
Re:I wonder (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:American citizens must use windows... (Score:2, Interesting)
I'm not sure if this is off-topic or not, but it reminded me of something that happened once.
Back in 1985, as Hurricane Gloria [geocities.com] was bearing down on Long Island, I decided it might not be a bad idea to head to the bank, get some cash, and lay in supplies for the day. I was tasked with keeping an eye on our network hubs which were located in a potentially leaky basement.
In any event, I figured I'd make an early start of it. So I wandered down to the bank. This was before ATMs were particularly widespread, but the drive-thru tellers were in at 7:30. I figured I'd just walk up to the drive-thru teller, since I didn't have a car.
No dice. I was refused service. Even when the cars had left, the teller refused to even go over to walk-up window. I would have to wait until the bank opened at 9:00AM.
So I did. I waited until 9:00AM, got my money, made a bee-line to the store for food, etc. and got into work just as the storm started to hit in earnest.
That weekend, I went into the bank, closed my account, and let them know exactly how I felt about being discriminated against.
Part of my annoyance, of course, came from the fact that we have a hurricane bearing down on us and I have to stand around and wait while others are allowed to go, simply because the bank had some rule. Actually, the person at the bank I talked to agreed with me and the teller was reprimanded.
Re:ADA? (Score:3, Interesting)
No, they are the same people that point out how Bush favors his brother's state over everyone else. Which is a problem for any citizen or taxpayer living outside of Florida.
Re:you know... (Score:2, Interesting)
Sounds like:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. -Arthur C. Clarke
Used Mozilla/Linux and set Browser to LIE (Score:1, Interesting)
Then using mozdev prefbar, I set the very same Mozilla browser running linux to pretend to be IE6.
BINGO! The page came up with the form and check boxes.
I stopped here because I'm not actually applying for aid.
There doesn't appear to be a valid reason for even looking for IE.