GMC to Begin Remotely Scanning Cars for Trouble

Momoru writes "GMC, in an effort to give their vehicles more appeal to consumers, will begin offering an "OnStar Vehicle Diagnostics" program for free, where GM will remotely scan your vehicle for problems once a month via it's OnStar system. GM has had this ability for a while, however it was always "On Request". OnStar is already automatically notified in the event of an airbag deployment, and can remotely unlock your vehicle. While this seems handy, I am interested if anyone here fears the security implications of the OnStar system's power?"

Remote unlock?

[carcosa30]

Interesting that it has control over the locks.

I wonder if Onstar can remotely lock your vehicle too.

Watch this "service" become mandatory.

Re:So long as you can turn it off...

[iamdrscience]

It is a fee based service, but if you're buying a GM car new you get a year of service "free".

Onstar is easy to disable.

[TodLiebeck]

Onstar is easy to disable (pull a fuse) and doing so has no ill effects as far as I can tell from first-hand experience. Once the fuse was reinstalled the system continued to function as before. A description of which fuse must be pulled can be found here:

http://www.hypertech-inc.com/install_instructions/ pp4/pp4pg2.html [hypertech-inc.com]

Onstar uses cellular networks to phone home

[Whizzmo2]

http://www.onstar.com/us_english/jsp/explore/onsta r_basics/technology.jsp [onstar.com]

From the linked article (bold emphasis mine):

Telematics is the transmission of data communications between systems and devices. OnStar's in-vehicle safety, security, and information services use Global Positioning System (GPS) satellite

and cellular technology to link the vehicle and driver to the OnStar Center.

From the images on the linked page, the cellular antenna appears to be mounted at the top-rear of the vehicle.

"Scanning" is a bit more than it actually is.

[Otto]

The OnStar system interfaces to the data bus of the various computer modules in the car. What this is actually doing is what's often called "reading the trouble codes".

It's the same thing you can do with a $50 tool from AutoZone. Any time a problem is detected by the computer, it throws up a code. Some of these codes cause the SES light to come on, some don't. An ODBII scanner plugs in behind the dash and reads these codes from the computer modules, then displays them. Usually in a nicer to read format.

That's all this is doing. They call the OnStar system in the car, tell it to read the codes, and send it back to them. While it's possible for them to send other commands, there's really not much in it for them to do so. You can do some unusual things via that interface (I could have endless fun sticking your car into diagnostic mode and triggering the windshield wipers to run a test cycle), but you can't get back a whole lot of information that they don't already have. VIN, info on the car components, maybe miles travelled and such, but nothing that I would consider crucial to "privacy".

You could figure out MPG and average speed, but hell, I speed all the time and my computer system says my average is only around 40-ish. Instantaneous speed couldn't be gotten from the car via this interface.

Of course, they don't need the car to get that info. OnStar systems have a GPS built in, and that will give them instantaneous speed. But that doesn't require them talking to the car to do it.

Re:New And Old Cars

[cnelzie]

Pretty soon, this generation learning to drive won't be able to get behind the wheel of an older car (read pre-1990). If it does not have ABS...How do i stop?? Whats that? I can't tailgate and wham the brakes at the last second?!?!?!?!

    ABS doesn't allow you to tailgate and slam on the breaks at the last second. Perhaps you should look into ABS technology before spouting off about it.

    ABS stands for Anti-Lock Breaking System. It is used to keep a driver in control if a situation arises where the wheels locking up will create a terrible danger to the driver and others around the driver. Instead of locking all the wheels, which if the surface is right, put the car into an out of control skid condition, the wheels are grabbed and released by a computer system, allowing the driver to swerve around dangers.

Re:name any new european car without ABS

[Anonymous Coward]

All new cars being sold in EU are mandated by law to have ABS. Motorcycles will follow, in 2007 I believe.

Also, all seats must be equipped with headrests, even the middle back one; all seat belts must be the pre-tensioning kind, etc, etc.

Automobile safety regulations are much more stringent in Europe.

They are also monitoring your driving.

[TrailerTrash]

I just purchased a new GM car (a Hummer, if you must know) last weekend. The dealer told me that now, not only do they call you when your airbags deploy, but also if you swerve hard, as when you suddenly avoid a deer, or towards an SCO executive standing in the road. The OnStar people will call you and ask if you're all right.

It also has a built in cell phone, you press a button to boot the system, and everything else is hands free through the mic in the ceiling panel. You buy minutes in a package like any other cell phone.

Re:Do you really want a worst-case scenario?

[squidguy]

That, my friend, would violate the Magnusson-Moss Act, which is the same law that permits you to maintain your own car (or have Dingbat Lube do it) without violating the warranty.

Re:Earth to GM : Get the basics right first!!!!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is this interesting??? How do heads that are bolted to the block and have the valves within them crash into the valves???

I believe this genius meant to say that he has an interference engine and the when the timing belt let go the pistons hit the valves.

At least get your terminology straight before you post a lame ass anecdote

Re:New And Old Cars

[Anonymous Coward]

I will be called a coward and not post a name....I work for OnStar and I can tell you all that you are as wrong as you can be when you think OnStar is tracking everything you do, or that we're only looking for non-warranty problems, or that this is opt-out.

In fact, this is a pretty useful service that is completely opt-in. If you read the actual press release, you'd see that customers have to go request the service online or button-press in to an advisor to request enrollment.

I get so sick of hearing these big brother complaints. Trust me, we have plenty to do here without worrying about tracking someone's every move.

Re:Earth to GM : Get the basics right first!!!!!

[wikkiewikkie]

Wrong. A large number of modern engines are non-interference. For example, Toyota realized in the 80's that they could greatly reduce their warranty repair cost by utilizing non-interfence engines. As a result, nearly all of their engines currently in production are non-interference.

Re:But can it tell

[wtansill]

when you're making it in the back seat?

Yes:

http://news.com.com/2100-1029_3-5109435.html [com.com]

Re:How Does OnStar send back info from car to "bas

[1800maxim]

Satellite is used to provide GPS coordinates (as well as speed and direction of travel).

Cellular technology is used for everything else - voice and data communication.

Driving the vehicle into a zone with no cell coverage will not provide OnStar any information. First, the vehicle gets its position from the satellite. Then, it sends that information (along with anything else) to OnStar via cellular signal.

Re:But can it tell

[Dare nMc]

> the FBI blocked from using it as a "wiretap"

appears the only reason it was blocked, was because onstar at that time couldn't interupt the monitoring to transmit a airbag deployed alert...

Seams like a minor software change, that GM would not have to announce, and this wouldn't be blocked anymore. (IE the FBI may not be blocked anymore.)

Re:yes but it's OPT-IN

[Reo Strong]

Please check the below link, it's to an older news article, but it makes a point to remind people that the On-Star in-car mic's are either always on or can be easily tapped. The back story (that I've heard, just can't find justification) is that in Arizona, the FBI recorded the conversations of a mobster over the On-Star system in his new caddie...

http://www.bobbarr.org/default.asp?pt=newsdescr&RI =473 [bobbarr.org]
(yeah, yeah, no HTML skills...)

Beyond that, it is an op-in option... there are plenty of car manufacturers. On the other hand, if I were to buy anything not GM, Ford, or Chrysler made, I would end up having to tow it somewhere (over 50 miles) to get it looked at under warranty...

Re:Earth to GM : Get the basics right first!!!!!

[covertlaw]

I'm just wondering which engine you had. GM hasn't made an engine with a timing BELT since 1985...

Re:yes but it's OPT-IN

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

okay folks repeat after me. ON-star is a service the user signs up and pays for. it is not forced on you. there are no privacy issues,

FALSE

OnStar is both a package of remote telematics equipment included in the base configuration of many GM vehicles AND a subscription service that makes use of the remote telematics equipment.

Here's the key part - even if you do not subscribe, the equipment is still in the car and functional. It can be turned on at a moments notice without the consent or even knowledge of the vehicle's owner.

GM has publically promised to include the OnStar equipment in the base configuration of ALL GM vehicles within a few years.

If you do not understand how such a system can enable extreme abuses of privacy, you must have been living in a cave for the last 200 years.

Re:yes but it's OPT-IN

[mrscorpio]

I don't know what you're smoking, but no they're not. Chrysler is a division of DaimlerChrysler :)

Chevy is one of the GM brands.

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[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Re:yes but it's OPT-IN

[dumpster_d]

You mean like the FBI remotely activating the On-Star system and using it to track people and record conversations [com.com]?

Note that the most disturbing part of that article is the fact that the courts didn't have a problem with the FBI doing this--they were only forbidden to do so because it was making OnStar fail during emergency contact.

Think they got that bug worked out during the last two years?