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The Internet IT

24 Mb Consumer Broadband Launched 389

twilight30 writes to tell us The Guardian is reporting that broadband provider "Be" is providing customers with the option of a 24 megabits per second download speed connection. These speeds are roughly three times the closest local competitor and also allow 1.3 megabits per second upstream, roughly five times quicker than any other service provider. The service is being offered at £24 (US $42.84) per month. Hopefully this will become a trend of radically increasing consumer internet speeds.
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24 Mb Consumer Broadband Launched

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  • 24 Mb not 24 MB (Score:5, Informative)

    by Frankie70 ( 803801 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:07AM (#13656029)
    Slashdot editors - please correct the title.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:11AM (#13656049)
    Here's a link:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,5294551-103 676,00.html [guardian.co.uk]

    AC to avoid the whoring.
  • I love bandwidth (Score:3, Informative)

    by ReformedExCon ( 897248 ) <reformed.excon@gmail.com> on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:11AM (#13656051)
    But I also love service and stability and a broadband connection that is always available. My experience with English broadband is that it is run over deteriorating copper wires that were apparently laid when Alex Bell was experimenting with his telegraph machine, and which are frequently sliced into little segments by construction crews mangling the roads.

    Sure they offer high speed access, but can they also offer guaranteed access?

    If it does work out, my only wish was that I was able to get on that network. Limping along at 512kbps is not quite the exhilarating ride that it once was when I first switched from 56.6 dialup.
  • Verizon Fios (Score:2, Informative)

    by ixtapolapoquetl ( 622233 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:18AM (#13656088)
    In the DC/Maryland Suburbs you can get 15Mbps for $44.99. I have 2Mbps upstream with it, so I think a part of the story is incorrect... Fios would be faster upstream. Though I understand not a lot of people have Fios available to them.

    <Homer>Suckers.</Homer> :)
  • by jbellows_20 ( 913680 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:22AM (#13656099) Homepage
    ...but the corporate entities that provide teh high speed internet access are quite greedy

    That's why the infrastructure needs to be done by the city. Where I live the city has done just that and everyone has the opportunity to receive 10Mbps for only $40. Now I know that this cost is more per megabit than the article talks about. But still, when compared to what cable and telcos offer, it's a great price.
  • by Donniedarkness ( 895066 ) <Donniedarkness.gmail@com> on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:25AM (#13656117) Homepage
    First of all, the blurb is lacking a link to the article that it mentions:

    http://shopping.guardian.co.uk/computers/story/0,1 587,1525508,00.html/ [guardian.co.uk]

    Next up, for those of you who can't tell, this is UK-only.

    Now, here's my question: Is this service really all it's cracked up to be? Anyone know anyone else on it?

  • by Acius ( 828840 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:27AM (#13656124) Homepage
    Parts of Utah now have a 15 Mbit SYMMETRIC connection available, which is enough to make any torrenting geek happy (one ISP doing this is here [xmission.com]). That's $44/mo, and they're doing 30 Mbit symmetric for $109/mo (although technically that's a "business" package). Mostly, I'm happy to see a non-stupid upstream finally available in a home package (and looks like they don't bother blocking port 80, either).
  • Yah, so.... (Score:1, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:29AM (#13656132)
  • Re:Australia first (Score:5, Informative)

    by Elyscape ( 882517 ) <elyscapeNO@SPAMgmail.com> on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:29AM (#13656133) Homepage
    There's one, big, fundamental difference in the services provided. Internode caps the amount of data you're allowed to download [on.net] (15-60 gigs, depending on how much you pay). Meanwhile, Be has no download cap whatsoever [bethere.co.uk]. This, I think, makes Be's service significantly better.
  • by saitoh ( 589746 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:41AM (#13656173) Homepage

    (shamefully yanked from their Tell Me More page, read below for my thoughts on their definition of unlimited usage and how they define it and their process)

    Features

            * Up to 24 meg download speed
            * Up to 1.3 meg upload speed
            * Unlimited Internet access
            * No download caps
            * Free high specification wireless Be Box modem

    Options

            * Be static IP
            * Be home email and webspace, coming soon (click here for more info)
            * More coming soon

    Be Box modem

            * ADSL 2+ enabled
            * 4 port 10/100 megs Ethernet switch (1 port reserved for future use)
            * 54 megs 802.11 b/g wireless interface
            * 2 voice over broadband ports (future use)
            * 1 analog back-up (future use)
            * OS Independent (Ethernet)

    Requirements

            * A rampant thirst for speed
            * BT phone line
            * A device capable of communicating via TCP/IP (like a Windows PC, Mac, Xbox with Live...)
            * An Ethernet port for a wire connection to the Be Box
            * A 802.11b or 802.11g compatible network adapter for wireless connection to the Be Box
            * Windows 98SE / Mac OS 8.6 or higher

    Getting Be

            * Place your order online
            * If your order is accepted, your BT phone line will physically be connecting to our network in your local exchange (this usually takes about 2 - 4 weeks)
            * You will be sent our welcome pack, including our Be Box modem and your line will be activated
            * Follow our DIY instant broadband instructions in your welcome pack and you will be ready to go

    -------------

    Now, this looks rather straight forward, and I keep wondering "wheres the catch?" My only guess would be that either they are using fiber to make this economical for them on the business end, or they are going to throttle/mercilessly prosecute illegal activities which take place on their network, thus reducing load... I wouldnt expect any company to state the later, but the former might have been touted as a feature. So I went digging and came across their TOS policy (conviently linked under the "is this really unlimited" section of the FAQ (note #11):

    So what can Be's services not be used for?

          1. Unlawful, fraudulent, criminal or otherwise illegal activities
          2. Sending, receiving, publishing, posting, distributing, disseminating, encouraging the receipt of, uploading, downloading or using any material which is offensive, abusive, defamatory, indecent, obscene, unlawful, harassing or menacing or a breach of the copyright, trademark, intellectual property, confidence, privacy or any other rights of any person
          3. Commercial purposes (unless you are a home member who is working from home as a sole trader in business on your own account or an office member in which case see below for limits on certain types of commercial use)
          4. Sending or uploading unsolicited emails, advertising or promotional materials, offering to sell any goods or services, or conducting or forwarding surveys, contests or chain letters except that home members working from home as a sole trader in business on their own account or office members are permitted to send marketing communications in accordance with the Privacy and Electronic Communications Regulations 2003 if sent in batches of no more than fifty (50) emails at any time, each individual campaign being sent to no more than five hundred (500) recipients, with no more than five (5) campaigns per month
          5. Knowingly or negligently transmitting or uploading any electronic material (including, without limit, files that contain viruses, corrupted files, or any other similar software or programmes) which is known or likely to cause, interrupt, damage, destroy or limit the functionality of any computer software, hardware or telecommunications equipment owned by Be or any other Internet user or person
          6. Activities that invade another's privacy, cause annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to any person
          7. Activities that are in breach of any other third party's rights, including downloading, installation or distribution of pirated software or other inappropriately licensed software, deletion of any author attributions, legal notices or proprietary designations or labels in any file that is uploaded, falsification of the origin or source of any software or other material
          8. Anything that may disrupt or interfere with Be's network or services or cause a host or the network to crash
          9. Launching "denial of service" attacks; "mailbombing" attacks; or "flooding" attacks against a host or network
        10. Granting access to your Be services to others not residing at (for home) or located at (for office) the premises at which these Internet services are provided
        11. Making excessive use of, or placing unusual burdens on, the network, for example by sending or receiving large volumes of email or excessively large email attachments
        12. Circumventing the user authentication or security process of a host or network
        13. Creating, transmitting, storing or publishing any virus, Trojan, corrupting programme or corrupted data

    #11 I think is the only one that you could do completely legal stuff, and still get zinged if your not careful. etree.org BTs (which are in the gigs per BT usually) or mirroring of material that is being hammered might fall under that, even though those could be completely legal activities. Further on down, they elaborate on this with:

    What about excessive network usage?

    "If it's felt that any member's Internet activities are so excessive that other members are detrimentally affected, Be may give the member generating the excessive web traffic a written warning (by email or otherwise). In extreme circumstances, should the levels of activity not immediately decrease after the warning, Be may terminate that member's services."

    While they dont give a number (and I dont blame them from a business perspective), they at least will issue warnings. Fair enough to me.

    I do like their "what if my kids or others I dont know break in and use my account to violate the TOS" and their response is "tough shit, its in the TOS". Looks good
  • by MetalBlade ( 918113 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:46AM (#13656190)
    I agree with G3ckoG33k. This is very old news.

    I've had 10/10 Mbit _fiber_ for more years than I can remember, and I have lots of friends with both 24/1 and 100/100 Mbit.
    Right now I pay 30 per month for 10Mbit, I think the price for 100Mbit is 60 per month.

    The cool thing about my connection is that the fiber goes all the way to your basement, then TP cables from there up to your switch, then to your computer. The only network knowledge you need to have is how to use DHCP since you get 5 dynamic public IP addresses.

    I really hate when a site such as /. comes up with news that is this old. Sure there are lots of people who had no idea of this, but I think that the people who post the news should be more up-to-date.
  • Re:I love bandwidth (Score:2, Informative)

    by saitoh ( 589746 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:48AM (#13656193) Homepage
    well, while they dont come out and "guarentee" access, they do compensate you for non-service days which is cool. If only my cable company did that...

    quote:

    >>>What happens if my service is disrupted?

    We're committed to providing you with a service that has as few disruptions as possible.
    In the unlikely event that you experience a loss of service caused by us for more than 5 consecutive days (for home members) and 24 consecutive hours (for office members), you will be compensated for each day's disruption, by a reduction in your monthly service fee equivalent to the amount you would have paid for service on those days.

    In order to receive this reduction, you will need to notify us as soon as the service failure occurs and request the appropriate reduction by contacting member services when your service is restored. See our 'Standard terms and conditions' for more information.
  • by mister_tim ( 653773 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:56AM (#13656209)

    I've already moderated in this thread, but what they hey...

    This is based on ADSL2+, same as the service offered by Internode [on.net], iiNet [iinet.com.au] or Adam in Australia. Internode really led the way and were the first to roll out DSLAMs that would offer up to 24 Mbps download speeds and about 1 Mbps upload. iiNet, although they offer ADSL2+, limit it to 12 Mbps download.

    Now, I suspect the reason for this is that while 24Mbps is the theoretical maximum download speed over ADSL2+, you're only going to get that speed if you have a perfect line and live really close to the exchange. If you're even 2km away, then you're speed is going to drop a fair bit: granted, you'll still get about 15Mbps, but not the 24Mbps advertised. My guess is that iiNet just finds it easier to guarantee 12Mbps rather than trying to explain that, "well, you might get 24Mpbs, but there's all these other factors and we can't guarantee it, and no, we don't know exactly what speed you'll end up with."

    There was a really good graph on this here [on.net], which shows deteriorating performance as you move further from the exchange.

    The other thing about this that really interests me is that Australia was derided and we complained for so long about how far behind the rest of the world we were when it came to broadband, but it now looks like we're really catching up - maybe in large part as we have good companies like Internode who are very tech-minded, still small enough to focus on service rather than just the almighty buck, and who actually want to provide good services to people.

  • by teknomage1 ( 854522 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @12:58AM (#13656213) Homepage
    Doesn't most spam come from the United States? It sounds like this is a British ISP, so I really wouldn't worry about it that much if you truely are concerned.

    "You forgot about Poland!"

  • by Tarq666 ( 545095 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @01:00AM (#13656219)
    I recently upgraded my old 20Mbps cable connection to a 100Mbps fibre optic connection. The main reason for the switch was the price; about ¥4000/month (approx. US$40) for the cable and under ¥3000/month for fibre optic. The upload bandwidth is around 10Mbps as well I think. Connection speed is one of the things that keeps me in this country.
  • Re:Unlimited Use (Score:5, Informative)

    by brain159 ( 113897 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @01:03AM (#13656227) Journal
    UK local telephone calls were not free/unmetered. (there may be some service arrangements which change this now, I've not kept up with that). This meant that going modem-to-modem cost money. Because of some flexibility/complication in the UK phone system, there's a bunch of dialling codes which are non-geographic - 0845 numbers were originally "local rate" (but now the effective cost of a real local call has dropped, whereas the rate to call these has not), 0800s are free to the caller, etc.

    (This means that customer services sort of numbers are either 0845, or 0870 "national rate" lines - they cost more to call, aren't typically included in cellphone package minutes, and creates a token revenue stream for the company you're calling while you're on hold!)

    In the super-early-days, you paid your ISP and then paid to dial in to their 0845 local-rate POP line.

    Then Freeserve (now Wanadoo) and co turned up - they realised that if you worked with a telecoms company, you could receive a slice of the per-minute fee that users paid for calling in to your 0845 number. Thus did Pay-As-You-Go dialup arrive in the UK; you paid your phone bill, the ISP took their cut from that - no monthly fee. (note: unlike netzero and similar in the US, there was no adbar or weirdy crap - straight PPP dialup.)

    Some technical change happened which made it possible for ISPs to offer flat-rate access, without them having to pay the high costs of letting heavy users dial in to real 0800 lines for ages on end. I'm not entirely sure what this change is, but it was reliant wholly on you having a BT landline (it was some hack with trick numbers in the local exchanges, turning the call into data earlier or somesuch.). Now, you could go back to paying a monthly fee, but not pay for your calls (as the access number was now free to call).

    Aaah yes, must clarify the whole "having a BT phoneline" thing. It's *not* a given in the UK that the RJblah phone jack in someone's house is necessarily hooked up to the local BT phone exchange (or wiring cabinet, or whatever). In the UK, the cable TV companies also provide telephone service over their own kit - right down to running new copper in to your house and adding a new socket. When they launched this, they offered cheaper call prices than BT (and you could port your number the way the developed world can with cellphone numbers), and eventually got round to offering PAYG and Unmetered dialup roughly when BT customers got it (but you have to use the Cable company as your ISP to have Unmetered Dialup). Nowadays the UK broadband services say "must have a BT line" because the cable companies won't/can't/don't DSLify their POTS loops (they don't need to, they offer cable modem broadband). If you really want DSL, you can have a BT landline alongside a Cable-company one, or in place of it.

    (this is all from memory, at time of posting it's about 6am in the UK and I need some sleep. I've not put in a specific timescale since I'd be guessing entirely - Unmetered dialup has been around here a good few years now, easily.)
  • Tokyo 100Mb (Score:5, Informative)

    by tokyopimpdaddy ( 586432 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @01:16AM (#13656272) Homepage
    I'm so lucky to be living in a modest but modern apartment here in Tokyo and get to enjoy 100Mb 'Fibre' (Hikari fibre by TEPCO), which I have running consistantly at over 40Mb down, 10Mb up, thus Bittorrent loves me. That 100Mb of course being best effort, and we all know there are many reasons why you'll never really get that.)

    This is pretty common in Tokyo. Even the ADSL here is by standard well over 40Mb (though speed obviously comes in a lot below that in real life. Hell, my mobile phone has a 2.4Mb download.

    OK, so bragging over, all I can say is that it can be done, and done cheaply. My Hikari Fibre is included in the rent, and none of the solutions here in Japan are expensive - 20USD a month or so. When I came to Japan originally in 1996 it was a totally different story - dial up was more expensive than the UK and access points were pretty screwed up outside of Tokyo. When I returned in 1999, ISDN flat rate was there, and by 2001, ADSL was ramping up incredibly, even in my then decrepit old place.

    Some things in Japan are archaic (government, banks etc. (really, ATMs which close at 7pm...)), but the bandwidth here does prove it's the companies holding this up elsewhere, for whatever reasons. I guess they're hoping to string out their plant (copper cable/switch etc.) life as long as they can, because hey, tomorrow it'll be cheaper to upgrade right? I think here it was a case of national pride - late to 'the internet' party in the mid- to late 90's, and with rival neighbours Korea beating them, I think NTT finally got told to 'sort it out'. You have to love that 'close state relationship'!
  • Free legacy (Score:4, Informative)

    by boa13 ( 548222 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @01:17AM (#13656278) Homepage Journal
    Nice to see the Free business model (offer all the bandwidth a phone line can support and a multi-purpose, multi-service "box" for a flat, low monthly fee) taking over the world! When Free started with their idea in late 1999, their were considered fools by the rest of the French industry, and actually had to build their own DSLAM and Freeboxes, since nobody would do it for them. Now the Freebox is in its fourth major version (fifth soon?), Free is the second ISP in France and every ISP here offers some kind of unimaginative rip-off (Livebox, NeufBox, CBox...), trying to match the excellent price/service ratio offered by Free. Not bad for a independant company funded, not by rich industry conglomerates, but by porn money!

    By the way, the service offered by Be in the U.K. is still more expansive than what Free offers in France (35 euros vs. 30 euros), and while they do mention services such as phone and TV, they don't say if they're going to be included in the flat monthly fee, like Free does. Somehow I doubt it. Maybe their customer service won't suck, though.

    More information on the Freebox (in French, but with pictures): http://www.f-b-x.net/ [f-b-x.net]
  • by mcbridematt ( 544099 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @01:44AM (#13656359) Homepage Journal
    Actually, local data arguably costs more if your're not in anti-compeditive agreements with your buddies (*cough* Telstra Optus AAPT MCI *cought*). In fact, some consumer ISPs are [apparently] bigger than one of that group (AAPT) but they are still forking out lots of money per month because the "Group Of Four" (as its known in the industry) is only interested in locking out the superior competition.

    Some smaller ISPs absorb the high per megabyte costs of pushing data down Telstra ADSL ports to unmeter traffic going through peering exchanges such as PIPE Networks or WAIX because it simply costs them less (and gets customers).

    In fact, three major ISPs (beside the four) - Internode, Comindico and Primus already have a backbone on the west coast of the U.S and Internode and Primus are already talking about video (and Internode just needs that for a full triple-play service) to the home completely over their backbones. (If International bandwidth was such an issue they probably wouldn't be talking about that).

    disclaimer: Happy Internode customer stuck on Telstra Wholesale 512/128k port. Thank you Ziggy and Alston for screwing Australia over. Thank you Sol for stating the bloddy obvious, that being Ziggy and Alston should've spent $3bn in the past few years. See the 56 page admission of guilt and other stupid things [asx.com.au]

    P.S Unlike the U.S Australia is not covered all over in HFC/Cable networks for DOCSIS - two telcos discovered in the mid-1990s that no one watches subscription TV and stopped rolling out new cable.
  • by myspys ( 204685 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @02:29AM (#13656467) Homepage
    Also worth pointing out is that Bredbandsbolget (www.bredbandsbolaget.se [bredbandsbolaget.se]) has started to deploy 1000 Mbit installations, the first (and only?) is available in Lund (south Sweden)
  • by rjshields ( 719665 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @03:48AM (#13656651)
    Yeah, and 640k should be enough for everybody. What if I want to spend all day making VOIP calls or video conferencing? That 30GB will be used up quite fast.
  • by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @06:07AM (#13656932)
    Seeding torrents or running an rsync mirror doesn't automatically mean the connection is going to be maxed 24/7.

    > look into how much it will cost you to get a hundred megabits of solid, guaranteed bandwidth

    My providers are all out of 'solid, guaranteed bandwidth', I have to make do with normal everyday transit :-o I can't buy it as cheap as Be because the cartel^w Tier-1 providers only deal with other telcos. How much do you think they will be paying per Mbps?

    > then factor in lots of equipment, and realize that if you're letting people
    > blow 24 mbits/second on bit torrents, all that money will only cover *four* customers.

    You forgot about the 20:1 (minimum - usually 50:1 for consumer DSL) contention ratio, because Be don't mention it in their FAQ doesn't mean it isn't there. The main expense is the DSLAM and the connection back to the POP, bandwidth is relatively cheap after that.
  • by Rocketship Underpant ( 804162 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @06:27AM (#13656989)
    "And I also somehow doubt 55 Mbps is everywhere in Japan as you make it sound to be."

    It's offered by Yahoo Broadband, available nation-wide as far as I know. Other DSL companies here have similar packages. I'm not even in one of Japan's biggest cities.
  • ADSL2+ and VDSL2 (Score:3, Informative)

    by Cato ( 8296 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @08:02AM (#13657250)
    ADSL2+ does drop in speed as you get further out, but there's also the prospect of remote DSLAMs (fed by fibre from the exchange) that end up shortening your local loop (line from the DSLAM to you) - these are already used, partly as a way of reaching more remote areas for telephone service and more recently upgraded to handle DSL. Sometimes known as FTTN (Fibre to the Neighbourhood/Node) since fibre is used to link the remote DSLAMs to the central office (exchange building). Being deployed by SBC in the US.

    A variant of this model is to deploy a smaller DSLAM closer to the subscriber's building (probably 500-1000 feet) you will even be able to get VDSL2, which gives you up to 100 Mbps - this is FTTC (Fibre to the Curb/Kerb), and is being deployed by BellSouth in the US, and BT and Deutsche Telekom in Europe. This FTTC model gives you about the same bandwidth as FTTP (Fibre to the Premises) using GPON (Gigabit Passive Optical Networks), which is what the US telcos are moving to (about 40 to 80 Mbps per subscriber depending on number of subscribers on each PON 'fibre tree').

    WiMAX is another option but it's debatable whether it can ever support enough simultaneous users at 40 to 100 Mbps in a densely populated area - probably best for competitive carriers and less populated areas.

    Since I live about 12,000 feet from my exchange, remote DSLAMs / FTTx are my main hope for more than 512Kbps (at least without getting satellite, WiFi/WiMAX or something more exotic)... I just checked with Be and my home is indeed too far away for ADSL2+...
  • by kklein ( 900361 ) on Tuesday September 27, 2005 @08:29AM (#13657368)
    I live in Makuhari, Chiba Prefecture (about 40min from the center of Tokyo, where Tokyo Disneyland, Marine Stadium, and Makuhari Messe are, in addition to just about every multinational under the sun), and I can't get fiber to save my life... Well, I guess I could, but we'd have to pay a LOT more than that (we've checked over and over). The "24Mb ADSL" line we have was running at about 640k when we first moved in and after I complained enough and proved to the idiotic phone staff that I did actually know what was up with their service, we finally got a guy to come out and look at it. He was awesome. He spent all day tracing lines, looking at network maps, talking games with me, etc., and was able to get the connection up to about 12Mb. Still not what we're paying for, but given the pricing not really enough of a slowdown to justify going to the next level down. He said most people just don't even notice or know how to check and that sales will sell anyone any speed they want, regardless of what the network and/or building wiring can support. So although the parent is getting great service here, and it's awesome that he's getting it all the way out in Niigata, the simple fact of the matter is that there is a huge difference between marketing and reality. Just FYI, for all the times on Slashdot you see people blathering on about how fast everything is in Korea and Japan (parent and anyone actually living here excluded, of course).

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