Taiwan Irked at Google's Version of Earth 571
frank_adrian314159 writes "As reported in The Register, Taiwan wants Google Earth to stop calling it a province of China. Although Google has yet to comment on this issue, it will be interesting to see the brightest minds that money can buy trying to solve what decades of diplomats have unsuccessfully wrestled with - how to balance the nationalistic pride of the inhabitants of Taiwan against the nationalistic pride of the inhabitants of mainland China." From the article: "Foreign ministry spokesman, Michel Lu, explained: 'It is incorrect to call Taiwan a province of China because we are not. We have contacted Google to express our position and asked them to correct the description.' Google has maintained a stony silence on the matter, presumably while it tries to work out a solution which will please both the Taiwanese and the hosts of the (lucrative, burgeoning, inviting) Chinese internet search business opportunity market."
Google is probably adhering to ISO 3166 (Score:5, Informative)
http://www.iso.org/iso/en/prods-services/iso3166m
03: Why is Taiwan named Taiwan Province of China in ISO 3166-1?
A: The names in ISO 3166-1 - and thus on our Webpage - are taken from United Nations sources. These sources are authoritative inputs to the international country code standard. They are:
* The United Nations Bulletin Country Names and the
* Country and Region Codes for Statistical Use of the United Nations Statistics Division
Since Taiwan is not a UN member it does not figure in the UN bulletin on country names. The printed edition of the publication Country and region codes for statistical use gives the name we use in ISO 3166-1. By adhering to UN sources the ISO 3166/MA stays politically neutral.
Re:google aren't the only one (Score:5, Informative)
It's a pity that the moderators can't recognize flamebait when they see it.
It really depends on how you define "independence."
If by "independent" you mean the existence of a sovereign government, an army, and a legal structure, then by all means Taiwan is independent. If by "independent" you mean recognized by everyone else, then they're not.
As an example, if you try to go to Taiwan, ROC with a PROC visa, you'll be laughed at. The leaders in Taiwan are democratically elected, they have their own army, currency, health care system, business regulations, the whole works. As far as I'm concerned, that's pretty darn independent.
If you're looking at the view of whether they *should* be independent, that's where a lot of the debate comes in. In PROC the view is that historically Taiwan was part of the PROC, so it should be reunited with the motherland. This particular belief is pretty strong on the mainland due to nationalistic pride and control of the newspapers. In Taiwan, people just want the right to elect their own leaders democratically; regardless of where they stand on the reunification issue, they don't want to turn into another Hong Kong, and that is the public relations problem that PROC is faced with. They want to maintain an authoritarian government over a population that is used to publicly berating its own leaders.
Article in Time (Score:5, Informative)
Managing Google's Idea Factory
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/05_4
history (Score:3, Informative)
You folks may remember when the Taiwanese legislature was planning to declare independence, and mainland threats made them back down? Well, if there weren't any ties to the mainland, why would they need to declare independence at all?
The reason is that, when Mao Tse-Tung's army took over the Chinese mainland and China's original rulers relocated to Taiwan, the old government maintained a claim to being the government of the mainland. In their eyes they were a province of China as a whole, despite the rest of the country being controlled by interlopers.
Now, over time, they realized the Communist regime, while it's gotten a bit more flexible, wasn't going away. Their own government changed in the meantime, too. And while they've gotten to the point where they no longer consider themselves to be the same country as the mainland, by having laid claim to being the only legitimate part of the original government they're still tied together.
Not only *.tw. -- GMaps/Earth uses obsolete data! (Score:1, Informative)
When you search for Poland on Google Maps, you'll get... "Polish People's Republic", which is the name of the Soviet-dependant communist country which existed in the years 1952-1989. A lot of Poles find it offensive to have their country listed under this name instead of "Republic of Poland". Lots of them have sent mail to Google, but they don't give a sh*t about it.
Google Earth sucks, too. If you want to find the town of Chojnów in Lower Silesia, Poland, you won't achieve it by searching for "Chojnów". That would be just too easy, wouldn't it? This town is actually listed with its former, pre-1945 German name "Hainau" (and that's the wrong spelling, since the German name was Haynau, not Hainau). The same applies to many other cities in Western and South-Western Poland. It's comparable to having "New York" listed as "Nieuw Amsterdam". ;-))
So it seems that Google Maps is using pre-1989 data, and Google Earth is based upon pre-1945 data. (Hey, it's consistent with Taiwan being a province of the mainland China, because it was one then).
Re:google aren't the only one (Score:5, Informative)
The government that is running Taiwan today is called the Republic of China. This is the government established by the Nationalist Party, which overthrew the imperial Qing Dynasty about a century ago. This is also the government that fought alongside the Allies in WWII against Japan, and is a permanent member of the UN Security Council.
After WWII, the government lost mainland China to the communists in civil war, and retreated to Taiwan. The communists then formed the People's Republic of China, and took over the Security Council seat and UN membership a couple of decades later.
Today, Taiwan maintains an independent executive, legislative, and judicial system, with police and military power. It also maintains diplomatic relationships with about two dozen small countries. It is not in the UN primarily because of the unfortunate zero-sum diplomatic contest that has been ongoing for decades now. Put simply, the PRC would not allow Taiwan into the UN, and most governments do not recognize Taiwan because the PRC would sever relations if they did.
I've head quite a few boxes on them that say Taiwan, ROC on them so I guess not even everyone there shares the same opinion.
Taiwan is ruled by the Republic of China, not the People's Republic of China. The problem at hand is that by saying "Taiwan, China", people (like you, no offense) will mistake it for the People's Republic of China. Over the years, a good number of native (meaning, arrived in Taiwan before 1949) Taiwanese have grown to resent the repressive Nationalist rule, and there is now some negative reaction to the name "China". The Nationalists have since lost power in elections, and the new ruling party has tried what it can to ditch the "China" altogether and achieve an independent "Taiwan", but this remains the most divisive political issue on the island.
as for me, what the hell do I know about it !
Re:Not "Province: , "Republic" (Score:5, Informative)
Republic of Taiwan?? (Score:3, Informative)
Re:google aren't the only one (Score:4, Informative)
Minor distinction I feel is important to make.
CIA Factbook: Taiwan Link (Score:3, Informative)
Second country from the bottom, aftwer Zimbabwe and before European Union. http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos
So yes, they are in the CIA world factbook.
Re:Simple solution (Score:4, Informative)
On the one hand, you have the Nationalists (the Kuomingtang, KMT), who led by Chiang Kei-shek brought a lot of Mainland Chinese Nationalists over to Taiwan back in the 50's after the Chinese Communists drove them out. The KMT settled in Taiwan and plotted their return to China to assert their democratic government there (both they and the Communists asserted that theirs was the legitimate government for the whole of China). This return, of course, has not quite happened although the KMT has claimed that Taiwan is part of China, in as much as they are the legitimate government of China as a whole. For a long time, the largely Mainlander KMT has remained (despite their minority status among the "native" Taiwanese, who are also ethnically Chinese, but have lived on Taiwan for several hundred years) have maintained a one-party system and martial law up until the mid-80's.
In that time there has been a liberalization of political life, leading to the rise of a large opposition party (the Democratic People's Party, DPP), consisting largely of "native" Taiwanese, as well as a change in the KMT's own membership as more "native" Taiwanese rise to positions of power within that party. The DPP could be described supporting Taiwanese interests over the KMT's party-line of reunifying with China under a Nationalist flag. This is intertwined with resentment over the KMT's repressive and corrupt policies over the years and a genuine need to address domestic issues within Taiwan.
Thus the reality of of whether or not the Taiwanese or their government favor reunification or independence can be well summarized by this paragraph from Wikipedia:
It is also important to note that a DPP president is currently in office, although the legislature is still fairly divided. So what's meant by "the government" is rather unclear at the moment.
("Native" is written in quotes to distinguish those Taiwanese who are ethnically Chinese, but have resided in Taiwan for the last few hundred years from the actual aborigineal tribes in Taiwan, who, like many native people, have suffered under a variety of hands.)
Re:Simple solution (Score:3, Informative)
But Amtrak got it right despite ISO 3166! (Score:3, Informative)
http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2
Why can't Google?
Re:Simple solution (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Simple solution (Score:5, Informative)
Re:No way to give up Taiwan (Score:2, Informative)
Re:Simple solution (Score:5, Informative)
Wow, you are so wrong and misguided it isn't even funny.
The war against India was not imperialistic at all; it was a border dispute that India was getting too agressive about; we attacked them, taught them a lesson, and backed out. If we were so imperialistic, why don't we hold any Indian territory today? In fact those same territories that were under dispute then are still under dispute now.
Wow, guess who else is so wrong and misguided? Have you picked up a history book or bothered to look at multiple sources of history to see what actually happened in the 1962 Sino-Indian War? It was completely because of imperialistic desires; among other things, it provided a "bridge" into Tibet, which China claims as its own. There were protests in India and China over this occupation. Ethinically and geographically it belongs to either Tibet (a free one) or India -- definitely not China. Are you even aware of what China said was its valid reason for conquering the territory? It was to "liberate three million Tibetans from imperialist aggression, to complete the unification of the whole of China, and to safeguard the frontier regions of the country." What utter nonsense!
And guess who started the war? Like you said, the Chinese. First, the Chinese took over whatever it felt necessary (Tibet) and started heading towards the Indian border. Second, India put up a military to safegaurd what was clearly its boundary -- a good bit behind what China already claimed at that point. Then, the Chinese decided that border patrol was an act of agression and felt validated conquering MORE territory. And, no they haven't left, yet? Hence the "dispute". So why did India not press itself militaristically? Because India did not have a military set up that China already did in the region; it is hard terrain that India has to play cath up with. So, it remains a "border dispute" that China guards agressively.
The current Chinese foriegn policy towards India dictates, basically, containment. Yeah... no imperialism there! I wouldn't be surprised if you more of your post has it "so" wrong; heads up moderators -- the parent is spouting bullshit.
Some sources:
Asia Times: India in China [atimes.com]
The battle for the border [rediff.com]
The Sino-Indian War [orbat.com]
1962 Sino-Indian War: An Overview [hindustantimes.com]
Re:Simple solution (Score:3, Informative)
The only history you seem to have down correctly is the part that's unflattering to the US (not surprising). This is completely ok by the way because we know what our country has done wrong. You're not opening any eyes here with that stuff. It's common knowledge in the US. Your take on what your own country has done is pretty distorted though. Your points on the Korean War, Tibet, and India would be funny if you weren't so deprived of real information and you didn't sound so sincere.
If you think we're led by monsters wait till you figure out the truth about your own government. That's probably never going to happen but hey, I'm wishing good things for you man.
Don't you have an party loyalty class or something to attend somewhere? Go put your Mao cap and jacket on and head out the door before someone figures out that you're talking to people in the "decadent west".
Hurry or you'll find yourself in a forced labor camp making me some sneakers.
Re:Simple solution (Score:3, Informative)
No. China was the chief supplier of the Afghan rebels. The Soviet after action reports make that clear. The Aghans might have had US Stingers, but they were wearing Chinese sneakers and using Chinese radios.
The Muslims in China have been under a situation that could be considered to be genocide for almost as long as the Communists have been in power. Aside from the direct assault on religion, the Communist Party has been deliberately moving Han into areas minority dominated. The idea is to make everyone Han. China may put minorities on their money, but the US does well. It does not mean that Native Americans as a people are almost extinct.
I do not approve of a nuclear armed Israel. I think the treatment of Mordechai Vanunu should make clear to everyone in the world that the nation of Israel is not a nation with laws for freedom. If the security wall and slaughter of the Palestinians wasn't enough. Concerning the US' role in the establishment of Israeli nukes: I don't see how that could not have US involvement, although some point fingers at the UK.
China is a government of personality. There is a man behind the bomb button. He does not answer to anybody. It is only a matter of time before someone like Mao or Hitler is given the power to destroy entire nations. China needs to change, or lots of people will get killed.
Re:Good guys follow the law. (Score:3, Informative)
In fact, the Catholic Church does. Also, 26 other countries do.
See our old friend Wikipedia [wikipedia.org].