Google Terror Threat

bogd wrote to mention a CNN article wherein Indian President Abdul Kalam stated his concerns that Google Maps could be used to aid terrorists. From the article: "The Google site contains clear aerial photos of India's parliament building, the president's house and surrounding government offices in New Delhi. There are also some clear shots of Indian defense establishments. Debbie Frost, spokewoman for Mountain View, California-based Google, noted that the software uses information already available from public sources and the images displayed are about one to two years old, not shown in real time."

Re:As an American...

[MightyYar]

I know about his education - it was a cheap joke on my part. My point was mostly to show how smart people can say dumb things. However, the sign of a truly smart person is when that person knows how to keep his trap shut when he doesn't know anything about the topic at hand. A person can be very book smart, yet be an unabashed failure socially, or in situations where most folks would just consider a decision "common sense". We have a tech at work who believes that the more education an engineer has, the further away from common sense and pragmatism they will fall.

Dr Kalam says more than that.

[The Cydonian]

To quote,

"developing countries, which are already in danger of terrorist attacks, have been singularly chosen" for providing high resolution images of their sites.

AKA, while certain American buildings [google.com] have been photoshopped, secure establishments in India and other places haven't been accorded the same level of obfuscation. Indeed, information about these locations is generally restricted in their respective countries, just as specific information on the White House (for example) is restricted in the US.

While a case can, indeed, be made about the need for a free flow of information, to call the information in Google Maps as "publically available information", however, is to ignore this double-standard.

guns don't do the shot by theiselves, you know

[Pecisk]

I just don't get - it is so HARD to understand that it IS a human issue where terrorism rises. It is not nation vs. nation, hell, it is not even human vs. human. It is just a reaction of those sad and bad bastards who have nothing in their lives left but kill and destroy innocent lifes. Why they do that - is there someone who just TRIED to understand it?

What caused World War II? What causes most of war? Money? Only money? Get a grip - that it is VERY complex problem usually and it is too tangerous to left solution to arms - because, hell, it don't resolve anything at all.

As brilliant as he may be...

[hummassa]

He is wrong, and so are you.
Google (as stated many, many times) only organizes information that is already public.
Everything a goverment wants to keep secret (and, mind you, governments should NOT do much stuff secretly) it should do underground (Cheyenne Mountain) and isolated from other, non-google type of spying. But mainly, governments shoud refrain from doing anything secretly.
How to make a fission bomb is not a secret anymore; how to refine uranium so it can be used still is, but not for long. The secrets are coming out of the box and we should be able to understand their consequences and deal with them.
I (for one) am waiting for a safer time when everyone is capable of making an atomic bomb (or putting a phaser rifle to overload, with similar results) -- maybe then everyone will think twice before doing so.

Re:In other news...

[1u3hr]

Paper maps proclaimed to be a threat to national security as they can be used to guide terrorists to important government buildings.

You were joking, but in many countries this is true. On a cycling holiday in Malaysia and Thailand I naturally wanted topographic maps to know where the hills were. I saw tour guides had such maps but they're not offically for sale. At a library in Penang I was treated with suspicion when I asked to see their non-existent map collection. Of course it's quite stupid to pretend that terrorists (of which there were and are active groups in these countries) would be fazed by such restrictions. You can source excellent topographic maps of just about anywhere overseas, and of course the local military maps are available for the right price. The only people inconvenienced are legitimate travellers. Simialrly in more paranoid places tourists who take snaps of bridges or just about any public building can lose their cameras and get in trouble. Again quite a futile exercise of power, any "spy" can easily take pictures undetected. In Bruce Schneier's phrase, "security theatre" and scapegoating.

Forget about the politicians and terrorists!

[MrHatken]

I want to know to whom I complain about the loss of my privacy.

I don't want anyone being able to peep into my backyard (without a legal search warrant etc.)

No one asked me if they could 1) take a snap of my backyard and, 2) display it publicly.

They should have.

Cheers,
Ashley

Maps and Security Paranoia!

[betasam]

Delhi was the first city in India to have in-car GPS [gisdevelopment.net] map systems available to the consumer. Further, an extremely detailed map of all locations in Delhi is available from several other sources. [indiamapstore.com] The only concern here is the resolution of the maps, Google Earth [google.com] can provide. The potential hazard seems to be the ability to identify independent buildings which are usually less accessible. However, for maps from aerial photographs and satellite photographs, there are companies who claim to have had access to such information and provided services from them like Ridings India [ridingsindia.com].

For one, yes - a Terrorist organisation would have had some difficulty in obtaining relevant maps of locations they target. Dr. Kalam believes that the issue is ease and speed of access to the maps of higher detail than normally available commercially, which might assist terrorists. There was a foiled attack on the Indian Parliament [bbc.co.uk] during the tenure of the last Government (in 2001) which was ill-planned.

However one can take a tour of the Parliament building and premises when it is not in session and therefore map it with sufficient ease, though he'll have to wait for sessions to be off. As for residential locations of the President (Rashtrapathi Bhavan) or Parliamentarians or Government Officers, they are almost known to anyone in Delhi. The trouble in a terrorist attack is usually penetrating the "Z-Class" security cover provided to those who are potential targets.

While strategic maps may be significant weapons in an openly declared war (particularly of military installations), in covert warfare methods used by terrorist operatives other factors including "surprise" and "stealth" play more importance; requiring intelligence operatives to monitor any possibilities and be prepared. Another recent attack on a Hindu Shrine in Ayodhya [rediff.com] was also foiled due to tight security and collaboration between military, civilian and paramilitary security groups (although the miscreants had access to the maps). Satellite Maps of Ayodhya are yet to be provided on "Google Earth". I am quite surprised that Dr.Kalam has come up with such a comment, having been a scientist for ISRO and DRDO prior.

USA Military Bases In Europe

[jackbower]

I was stationed in Sigonella, Sicily and Rota, Spain. Both of those bases are clearly displayed on Google Earth. I worked in a classified area and that is shown on the maps. Even if the images are two or three years old, it is not like we move the buildings.

I like what google has done but did have that same thought the first time I looked up the bases.

Side note: If you look up Rota, Spain and then find the runway then move to the right, someone cut a large peace symbol into the grass.

Why single out Google?

[erica_ann]

Ok, So where does that leave programs like Streets and Trips from MS, or Delorme, or online at Mapquest, Mapblast, Tiger data, MSN Maps and Data, Terraserv or Yahoo Maps ? For that matter, why not voice concerns about a GPS period? Why single out Google? They have all been around for years.. is there some reason Google Maps are different?

Sounds more like someone is trying to find a reason to point a finger at Google, but purposely overlooking what has been there around for years.

Re:Famous terror attacks

[CombatEngineer]

First of all I'm all for Google maps. How can it be used by Terrorist? Simple, my current base in Iraq shows up quite clearly on it. Using Google Maps would make it a lot easier to attack my facility, period. They've been found on insurgents. I like Google Maps because I use them here. I'm not part of a high speed combat unit. We have no classified sources (no classified network to access it, only regular miliatry internet). My people move by private security details (which also have no access to classified net). We use Google Maps to plan our movements, high res pictures are perfect for planing our ingress and egress routes, seeing where Iraqi police can block you etc. Technology cuts both ways, we live with it and deal with it.

Re:Offtopic fo' yo' gran-momma...

[antirename]

Ok, I have nothing against India, Indians, or their technical abilities. However, the accent DOES cause problems in my experience. Here's one example from personal experience: An elderly client used the reinstall CDs to try to fix his Dell. Whoops, that wiped Office Small Business and he had thrown away the cases because they didn't fit in his drawer the way he wanted. Oops. Called Dell, they couldn't find a serial that would work. Explained to the customer that calling Microsoft would cost $90 (I think that's what is was, I might be off a little) and he agreed. I got a guy in India. Now, have you ever tried to get a CD key, over the phone, from a guy with a REALLY strong accent? It went something like this: India: "Ok, your key is 9-8-7-bleh". Me: "Bleh? Was that D as in dog or B as in boy?" India (getting more and more aggravated): "Dog? What is dog? I do not know dog. I said BLEH". Anyway, I never could get a working CD key out of them. The customer didn't understand what the problem was, so I handed him the phone. Upshot is since he didn't use Outlook anyway he hung up and I installed Open Office.