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Google Businesses The Internet

Google's Secret Plans For All That Dark Fiber? 534

beat.net writes "Robert X. Cringely details the plan for all the dark fiber Google has been buying up: "The probable answer lies in one of Google's underground parking garages in Mountain View. There, in a secret area off-limits even to regular GoogleFolk, is a shipping container. But it isn't just any shipping container. This shipping container is a prototype data center. Google hired a pair of very bright industrial designers to figure out how to cram the greatest number of CPUs, the most storage, memory and power support into a 20- or 40-foot box. We're talking about 5000 Opteron processors and 3.5 petabytes of disk storage that can be dropped-off overnight by a tractor-trailer rig. The idea is to plant one of these puppies anywhere Google owns access to fiber, basically turning the entire Internet into a giant processing and storage grid. While Google could put these containers anywhere, it makes the most sense to place them at Internet peering points, of which there are about 300 worldwide.""
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Google's Secret Plans For All That Dark Fiber?

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  • by syukton ( 256348 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @01:34PM (#14076247)
    I'm sure google has. It's not like you can't have another truck towing a generator following the truck towing the portable datacenter.

    I used to work at a datacenter and we had a generator small enough that you could fit 12 of them in a shipping container, and the genny was enough to run a 500 machine datacenter for three days without refueling. The portable datacenter may well have a generator included.
  • Salt (Score:5, Informative)

    by mpeg4codec ( 581587 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @02:00PM (#14076383) Homepage
    This is the man who brought us the mathematically impossible [bawug.org] 6.5 mile 802.11 link with a passive repeater [pbs.org]. The repeater that he never showed to anybody [oreillynet.com]. He also shows us an idealistic world of a community cable and telephone company [pbs.org] that nobody's ever seemed to find evidence of.

    Saying that, when it comes to technology at least, he is speculative is something of an understatement. Take what he says with an extremely large grain of salt.
  • Re:5000 Opterons (Score:3, Informative)

    by the eric conspiracy ( 20178 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @02:03PM (#14076406)
    Sounds like Buffalo NY. Close to the Niagara hydro plants and surely cold enough.

  • by zippthorne ( 748122 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @02:16PM (#14076480) Journal
    One word: latency.
  • Re:Akamai (Score:2, Informative)

    by Petey_Alchemist ( 711672 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @02:17PM (#14076488)
    I used to work at an ISP, and we had Akamai boxes.

    Actually, the three Akamai's we had are still running right on top of the server I administrate there.

    I too was never quite clear on what they did, but my understanding is that they provide local cached copies of oft-visisted webpages. Even Google--last I knew, that is.

    So it's more like, instead of having to access Apple servers every time I type "Apple.com", I'll actually be accessing the local version hosted at my ISP on their Akamai box.

    In a way, Google already provides this with Google cache. So it really wouldn't be a big step for them to do it real time.

    --Petey
  • by ottffssent ( 18387 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @02:25PM (#14076536)
    > what's the point of putting network latency between all those shipping containers?

    To remove the network latency between them and you.

    They're not being used "for computing" in the sense you're envisioning. For one thing, 5000 Opterons is enough to tackle pretty much any problem you'd care to throw at it, so there's no need to talk to anyone else. For another thing, they wouldn't be doing big computations, they'd be doing massive numbers of small ones. Think Gmail. 3.5PB is enough to store an awful lot of email, and a few thousand Opterons can run rather a lot of simultaneous HTTP connections from people accessing the mail. Add in a fast network link (for talking to all those many people accessing the mail, and for replicating everything offsite), and you're set.

    Cringeley's penchant for sensationalism aside, it's pretty clear that Google's got the expertise and the mindset to deal with problems that start with "if we had 10,000 fast CPUs, 10,000 hard disks, and 10,000 GB of RAM...". Google's rapidly expanding, and has been ever since they started. Back when Google fit in a closet, a new server constituted a big expansion. I'm not surprised that these days their unit of expansion is a tractor trailer with a few dozen racks in it. And if you've got something that packages up that nicely, it only makes sense to pepper the globe with capacity.
  • by benjamindees ( 441808 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @02:28PM (#14076558) Homepage
    A 40 ft shipping container has a surface area of something more like:

    (40 * 8) * 4 + (8 * 8) * 2 ==

    1408 sq. ft.

    which, for 1 megawatt, is more like 710 watts/ sq. ft.
  • by ottffssent ( 18387 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @02:42PM (#14076614)
    Even with liquid cooling it's a hard problem. For one thing you need 5000 little hoses, and beefy pumps to get the water through there at a reasonable speed. Opterons are specced to run up to about 85C (depends slightly on model / family). Suppose you've got incoming water at 10C, and heat it up all the way to 85C. That's 75C difference, or 313.5J/g of water you're taking away. That works out to 5.75 million grams of water per hour, or just under 6000 liters per hour. You can't just dump it into a lake or river or you'll completely nuke the resident ecosystem. It's a manageable number from the point of view of getting it through the machines, but it's still an awful lot of energy to get rid of.

    The sort of temperature-differential energy recovery you speak of is technically possible but isn't efficient enough to substantially reduce the cluster's power requirements, and thus its need to vent waste heat.
  • by kavau ( 554682 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @03:42PM (#14076901) Homepage
    Nice example; unfortunately you're off by a factor of 4. The specific heat of water is 4.186 Joule/gram Kelvin. Hence to heat 1 cup of coffee by 90 degrees you need about 75 kJ = 75 kilowatt-seconds. Your cooling unit would need only about 3.3 cups/second.
  • by snStarter ( 212765 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @04:02PM (#14077026)
    So you need to cool about 600KW worth of heat dissipation. A ton of ac/ is about 3.5 KW or in the neighborhood of 180 tons of a/c required that will take about 1.4 kw per ton to eject that energy. So you'll need another container-sized unit to hold the a/c and then some sort of radiator or cooling tower to eject the heat.

    Clearly you're talking about serious energy density here with cooling which is on the order of what it took to cool a 637 class nuclear submarine underway in moderately cool water. Of course you'd really need TWO of those a/c units because you will want to protect that investment (still fits in the same footprint) and be ready to pay some substantial utility bills.
  • Re:additionally... (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 20, 2005 @04:03PM (#14077030)
    IT NOT FUCKING 2001 which means when people say "peering points" they are not talking so much as MAE-West, but more so the Equinix's and PAIX's (S&D), for instance the Westin in Seattle, or 11 Great Oaks (equinix), or 529 Bryant (PAIX or S&D (it will always be PAIX to me)) 111 8th in NY, or 60 Hudson in NY.

    So spare us your oh so late lecture from 2001, we all know that peering point are not just MAE-WEST or EAST, you did right???

  • by Anonymous Coward on Sunday November 20, 2005 @05:05PM (#14077356)
    Gridnet did the same thing back in the 90s. Except they used small prefab buildings (the same type used for regen huts). Inside were racks of modems, routers, backup batteries, and SONET transmission equipment. They would buy or rent a small patch of land in a parking lot within the magical "zero miles" of the bell central office. Truck their pre-built "point of presence" to the location, have a crane move it into place, connect the power, and start ordering circuits. This allowed them to get modems into nearly every LATA within a matter of months.

  • by bigtrike ( 904535 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @05:08PM (#14077373)
    If the nuclear submarine guess is right, then there would be some issues. Assuming you have access to a high voltage power feed (7kV or more) which allows you limit your windings and keep your pumps small, the pumps, heat exchangers, and power electronics for that level of cooling would probably take up half of any cooling trailer. Water cooling on that scale would also be very dangerous to your hardware. One leak in the wrong spot and you'd fry the entire thing.

    If I were engineering it, I'd probably skip the water step and investigate CO2 or freon refridgeration cooling. CO2 can be used as a refridgerant in place of freon, but it's typically not as efficient for air cooling purposes. The only real reason to look at CO2 is that it may be a safer solution when you have so many possible sources of leaks. Presumably you'd have multiple loops and leak detection/shutoff valves on each blade. You'd have to be careful to make sure that any condensation from your blade or chip coolers drips into a drain system. You could also put a thermal plug in each blade and use it for primary fire supression. Precautions against leaks would still be necessary, as high concentrations of either gas can kill people.
  • Re:aren't they all? (Score:2, Informative)

    by korea ( 615587 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @06:14PM (#14077720)
    An industrial engineer is not an industrial designer. An industrial engineer studies optimization, systems, stochastic processes, manufacturing strategies, etc. Industrial designers are the ones you guys are minimalizing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Production_Engineerin g [wikipedia.org] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_design [wikipedia.org] So I guess the danger is still there folks :| Honestly, industrial and mechanical engineering are the only engineering majors that are remotely related to the historical definition of the field. Easy on the hubris, ladies.
  • Re:Is this a joke? (Score:4, Informative)

    by ScrewMaster ( 602015 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @06:29PM (#14077793)
    It's a reference from Keith Laumer's novel "The Great Time Machine Hoax". Don't know if I spelled it quite right.
  • by dbIII ( 701233 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @06:45PM (#14077888)
    and super cooled electronics begin to achieve super conductivity
    That doesn't happen yet, and liquid nitrogen conducts electricity so you don't want to immerse things in it. High temperature superconductors that will work in liquid nitrogen exist and can be made fairly easily (the BiSiCuYt superconductor has been made in a lot of high school labs) but you don't see any of them in electronic components. Also think about what you are using the things for - you want your semiconductors to be semiconductors and not superconductors for your computer to work in the first place.

    As for lots of hot water - if you are worried about heating up part of a small lake you just run the water through some open drains to cool off a bit first. If you are going to recirculate it you let it drop down from a height to get some evaporative cooling - the principle behind cooling towers.

  • by Un-Thesis ( 700342 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @10:43PM (#14078935) Homepage
    Taken from http://www.incendiary.ws/node/194 [incendiary.ws]

    Crmblznski's Limit, sometimes spelled Crizmblski's Limit, has its origins in Keith Laumer's novel "The Great Time Machine Hoax" [1].

    The basic theorem is that there is a finite limit to the complexity of any given machine, which specifically precludes the operation of "a machine with sufficiently extensive memory banks, adequately cross-connected and supplied with a vast store of data, [that by its very essence] would be capable of performing prodigious intellectual feats simply by discovering and exploring relationships among apparently unrelated facts." The Limit is an irrational number, much like Pi, in that the total complexity of machine is wholy dependent upon both hardware and software designs.
  • Re:Is this a joke? (Score:3, Informative)

    by ScrewMaster ( 602015 ) on Sunday November 20, 2005 @11:26PM (#14079070)
    I just dug out my copy of the book ... it was actually spelled "Crmblznski". My mistake.

    Here's a link to the entire text of the novel, for anyone that's interested:

    The Great Time Machine Hoax [webscription.net]

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