An anonymous reader writes "The government of Libya is reported to have agreed to provide its 1.2m school children with a cheap, durable laptop computer by June 2008.
The laptops offer internet access and are powered by a wind-up crank. They cost $100 and manufacturing begins next year, says One Laptop per Child.
The non-profit association's chairman, Nicholas Negroponte, said the deal was reached on Tuesday in Libya.
Professor Negroponte told the New York Times in an email that the project mirrored Libyan leader Colonel Muammar Gaddafi's political agenda of creating a more open Libya and he also expressed interest in purchasing the computers for poorer African neighbors."
by Anonymous Coward
on Thursday October 12 2006, @06:36AM (#16406099)
I am not sure if you are joking, but this is a serious problem in desert communities. Were not talking about just being out on a windy day. I was in Desert Storm and ALL of our equipment suffered sand problems.
You were more likely than not right in the desert, which is a lot worse than being in the city and operating out of air conditioned buildings. I used to live in kuwait and had less problems with sand&dust than many other places. If you can use the equipment in a closed area then you should be fine.
I was a Peace Corps volunteer in Niger (Libya's neighbor to the south). Niger is very poor and the vast majority (99%+) of kids live in mud huts and sand gets EVERYWHERE. If Libya is indeed considering buying these for Nigerien kids, sand-proofing the machines would be key. Electronics in general do not last long at all in the harsh environment there.
God damn that Muammar Gaddafi, trying to make those African kids better with computers than our American kids. We need to get rid of these kinds of terrorists immediately, with their educating children and what not. What's next a Libyan bill of rights?!?!? Somebody needs to tell them that this is 2006, and the whole concept of a "Bill of Rights" is totally dated.
The recent history of Lybia is an example of how protracted negotiation with 'terrorist' regimes can result in a positive outcome. For many, many years Muammar Gaddafi was seen as the ultimate bad guy, worse even than Saddam Hussain. Now he's, if not exactly one of the good guys, not part of the axis of evil.
If Iraq is a classic example of 'how not to do regime change' then Lybia is a classic example of 'how to do it right'.
If Iraq is a classic example of 'how not to do regime change' then Lybia is a classic example of 'how to do it right'.
Regime change?
So Gaddafi is no longer the boss in Lybia? No, he's still there. But it's a democracy now, right? No, still dictator for life. At least, he's not a terrorist, is he? Well, it's been proved that Lybia has destroyed at least 2 airliners.
If the official story about Lybia was true, it would be such an asset for the current administration that they would be talking about it every day. Yet, Gaddafi's "redemption" receives a surprisingly low media coverage.
When you read between the lines, you realize that Gaddafi got an exceptional deal. 1. He got pardoned for his terrorist acts, 2. economic sanctions were lifted, 3. the US has stopped trying to kill him. In exchange for that : 1. he gave up a non-existing WMD program, 2. he paid a token sum to his victims' families, 3. he gave up terrorist activities (which he had not been able to pursue in the latest 10 years because of the embargo). In exchange, US/UK got 1. drilling rights for Lybian oil, 2. a good PR case for their "War against Terror" (TM) brand.
The irony is that, in 2003, Iraq and Lybia were very similar. Both were led by homicidal madmen, both were under UN embargo, both had no WMD, both were rich in oil.
There were just 2 differences. Lybia was actually a terrorist state and Iraq was not willing to give access to it's oil.
WTF are you smoking? Libya turned over a crapload of chemical weapons, and unveiled their bio and nuclear labs that were a lot more advanced than our intelligence had suggested. Ghadaffi's redemption got plenty of media coverage when it happened. Iraq is an ONGOING event, so it gets tons more.
Iraq gave plenty of access to it's oil -- it was selling as much as it could, as fast as it could to finance it's war with Iran.
You forgot the teensy fact that we had tens of thousands of troops sitting next door to Iraq; had suppressed most of their military; and had all the logistics already in place. Iraq was primed, Libya was not. Iraq was a perfect buffer to Iran -- we don't give a shit about a buffer with Tunisia, Algeria or Egypt. Libya complied with the conditions set upon it by the World Court and U.N., Iraq did not.
There are plenty of things to bash this administration about without having to make some up.
Personally I find it interesting that, in the build up to the current war in Iraq, the US administration tried to make out that Saddam Hussien had proven links to the funding of terrorist activities in the west - which now turns out not to be true - whereas Gaddafi is known to have directly funded and supported international terrorist operations for many years, and yet now he is our best mate. I wonder why that is..?
... about third world countries needing food and medicine more (god I can't stand those comments!), here's a very nice article [greenstar.org] I found through reddit about what happened when an Indian computer chap put a comp in a slum in the capital city.
Its 6 years old but sure makes for nice reading. Stuff like that makes the OLPC worth it IMO.
If someone out there cared about US citizens. I am sure there are tons of kids out there that could use a $100 laptop, even some grownups. Were stuck with buying them in pairs of 3s and getting one of the 3 at some undisclosed time in the future.. anyone know if these will ever be sold retail in the USA? I'd take one of these over a PDA any day.
Also I had heard they were going to remove the wind-up power, I guess they changed their mind again? I think these seem really cool and would love to get my hands on one...
We dont have one laptop per child here, not even close. Why is it that we're not on top of this stuff, yet we're happy to catapult other countries ahead by selling them the laptops?
so why don't YOU buy notebooks and give them to poor children? because that would be spending your own money, apparently (which is way bad).
try living in a socialist country like mine before spewing bullshit, thanks
by Anonymous Coward
on Thursday October 12 2006, @07:31AM (#16406557)
The United States treats its socialism the way a priest treats masturbation -- it does it very rarely, with a great amount of guilt, and tries very hard to ignore the amount of relief it brings.
I never thought I'd say this, but I wish India would follow Libya [theregister.co.uk] and reconsider--I mean this is the first time a humanitarian effort has strongly targeted learning tools. Food & medicine are important, but I sincerely hope we can show those we help how to continue to support themselves with tools like this.
I thought the OLPC people decided that the hand crank was too much stress on the frame of the computer and went away from that model? Does this mean that they are going back to hand cranks, or that the crank is detached from the computer?
The hand crank was there in early prototypes but the actual shipping units will use an off-board human-power system, connected to the power brick. Candidates include a foot-pedal charger similar to the Freecharge portable charger.
I believe it is. Also it seems they failed to mention that the laptops haven't reached the $100 price point yet and will start at $150, and that Libya is paying $250 million total for all the laptops and infrastructure.
...it seems the OLPC site still mentions it... when you hover the mouse over the FAQ. However it's not mentioned in the actual FAQ and this page http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_myths [laptop.org] puts things straight.
It has a little windmill that connects via a cable and harnesses the power of the desert winds.... when they rise, the teacher can yell "wind up", so students can get them out quickly and do a lesson while it lasts.....
okay, that was pretty lame. its not worth ruining my average postinthwhoops.asdflksubmit
Yes. Journalist gets a Reuters news feed, remembers stuff he half-=read one day on the same subject, cobbles together article, publishes, collects paycheck.
They haven't even met their $100 target even without the laptop. Maybe Libya will buy them for $100, but they don't "cost" that on the BOM even without the handcrank:D
Please do some reasearch. Libya is a huge thinly populated country with oil. It has the highest or second highest std of living in Africa. Most middle class people speak Italian (former colony). If anyone in a '3rd world' country can make use of cheap computers, it's them.
I don't understand how having the highest STD rate in Africa means they could make use of laptops better than any other third world nation? Or even having oil for that matter...
Not saying it's not nice for them and they won't make good use of the laptops, but that's roughly the equivelant of me saying "John Adams High School has the highest rate of teenage pregnancies in the state and the highest wealth per capita in the county, therefore if anyone could use new textbooks, it's them."
Have you thought how good idea it is? They have cash (oil) but it's pointless to just give it to people. But if you give computers to kids in 10 years time you'll have a lot very skilled computer scientists. And for quite cheap wage. Think how many western companies will try to invest in country like that. And it's much closer that India. Question is: Are those kids going to learn something or just ignore those computers? Thing is that there're not many things to play with in Libya. Of course if you don't count sand. That creates very intresting experiment. You have a lot of kids who have nothing to do except playing with computers. Almost 24/7. And they have friends who do the same... What kind of outcome we can get?
I personally think that Qudaffi is not stupid. That's a great investment in future. And great chance - where else can you buy valuable education for $100? If I'm right, we will see many other contries to follow the suit.
First of all every people should get rid of of their own dictator. But educated masses are the first step for creating democracies and raise the awareness of political and social problems. Maybe it will help.
The highest (or 2nd highest, depending on which sources you trust) standard of living in Africa
The highest Human Development Index [wikipedia.org] in Africa, ahead of Russia, Saudia Arabia, Turkey and others like those.
One of the highest GDPs in Africa, more than Malaysia, Mexico or Bulgaria
Market-oriented reforms and a business boom, currently ongoing
Free education for all citizens, resulting in the highest literacy rate in North Africa
Judge by facts, not because your own dictator says "evil man over there".
Yes, human rights are still a problem. But a country that just legalised imprisoning people without charge, trial, access to lawyer and for as long as you like is not really the party that should speak accusingly of other parties on this matter.
Get rid of your own dictator first before you tell others to do so.
You are right! these kids will be educated that they can get more than $100US for their laptops on ebay from hungry geeks dying to have one of these things.
The maker is being completely idiotic not selling them to geeks. I'd pay $200.00 for one right now for tinkering. Hell as a backpacking/camping PC it's down right perfect!
So the third world will get their money via paypal and ebay, and geeks get them in spite of the sillyness of the company/foundation making them.
So the third world will get their money via paypal and ebay
I can't decide if you're serious or not, but just in case you are, but the country I live in (Hungary) joined the EU in 2004. Do you know since when can we use Paypal here to receive money? Oh, since Oct 5th, 2006...
Somehow I highly doubt that those kids in the poor countries could engage in any financial relationship with anyone abroad.
A personal computer can be a great way to improve education! You don't think they're going to be playing video games or cranking out word documents with that (printerless) thing, do you? Libya is not some super-poor country, either. They have an 82.6% literacy rate so we know they're getting some education. CIA rates their average risk of getting Major infectious diseases as "intermediate" so they do have some competent level of medical care. Considering all that and their 2.3% rate of population growth, I'd say Libya is a second world, or developing, nation. Not a third world.
And if their Jamahiriya government style wanted to 'rape their own country and KEEP those poor kids poor" why would they be buying the laptops or trying to create a more open Libya?
Lawyers defending six medical workers who risk execution by firing squad in Libya have called for the international scientific community to support a bid to prove the medics' innocence. The six are charged with deliberately infecting more than 400 children with HIV at the al-Fateh Hospital in Benghazi in 1998, so far causing the deaths of at least 40 of them.
The six are all foreign workers. Poor conditions at the hospital led to 400 kids getting AIDS, and now the Libyan "government" is trying these six in a death-penalty case to try to blame them for the poor conditions at the hospital.
Libya is a 3rd-world hell-hole, but it doesn't have to be. There's plenty of money, they just need to can the idiot running the place and get an actual government. Probably the best piece that I've read on Libya:
In Michael Totten's words: Libya is the most oppressive state on earth next to North Korea.
I would strongly suggest that anyone in Libya who may be reading this to read the "Declaration of Independence" of the US. There you will find that you have a duty to can the dictator. Note: DUTY.
Where do you people come from? It's like, no matter how much light is shed on this matter, people keep objecting with that irrelavent point. These computers are for countries that are poor, yes, but they already have modern medicine, education and democracy. Yes, such countries exist, like the ones already planning on buying these computers: Nigeria, Brazil, Argentina, Thailand, and now Libya. The countries like the ones you describe aren't the ones getting these. They have bigger problems to deal with, as
Africa is not some dust bowl or rain forests full of poisonous monkeys.
It is a rich continent and although technology ("progress?") hasn't reached every corner that does not mean the images of doe eyed children starving to death in the middle of nowhere are emblematic of the entire continent.
Something the computer _CAN_ provide is information. What I mean is you can take all the supplies you like but unless you have a hand book or instruction manual those supplies (unless it is just food aid) are all but useless. Imagine having the biggest reference book ever openly available for you and your tutors. Want to build a damn for hydroelectricity in your village? Search for it. Want to build a wind turbine? Search for it then search for companies that can supply and ship components you can't make.
When you talk of providing modern medicine - yes, great. Now look at who rapes who. The "west" (with its extraordinarily tight grip of patents, trademarks, copyrights on most modern drugs) is implicit in the denial of medicine to these countries. Why? Because the corporations of the west will not sell drugs in those countries at the low prices required.
Libya is certainly not as ravaged as your post would indicate. It's a rich(ish) country with food, oil, medicine etc etc. Although maybe their dictator is a bit loco. Then again, he certainly seems to have grown up a lot over the last 20 years.
Other problems in Africa (Darfur, Ethiopea, Eritrea, Congo Basin etc) are cause by _WAR_. If it wasn't for the gutless inaction of the UN then maybe, just maybe those problems would have been sorted out (or at least the long road to recovery) long ago.
Sorry if it sounds like I'm ranting but.. well.. I guess I am.
let's see how well this actually goes. personally, i doubt the children will actually be using the laptops. instead i am very certain the parents will either sell it or the kids will get robbed by some local militia that always seems to pop up in every african country. eitherway, the kids won't have the laptops as projected and a black market is going to spawn up.
They want to make these laptops brightly colored so that if an adult is seen with one of them, it will be widely known that they have stolen fro
If it is the same basic design Negroponte has been selling, then powered machines create a mesh by automatic ad hoc networking with other laptops. Though I have not heard of details, if I were designing it I'd provide free software that would turn any wired pc into a hub for this too. Power from hand cranking if necessary (perhaps if you are on a trip or in the boonies), also gives a kid the ability to be portable and take it as a book with him or her. Don't know if networking would be powered on all the ti
Ummm (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Ummm (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Ummm (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Insightful)
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
When closed, we intend it to be rained on or survive a dust storm.
Terrorists! (Score:5, Funny)
rhY
Re:Terrorists! (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:Terrorists! (Score:5, Insightful)
If Iraq is a classic example of 'how not to do regime change' then Lybia is a classic example of 'how to do it right'.
Parent
Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Regime change?
So Gaddafi is no longer the boss in Lybia? No, he's still there.
But it's a democracy now, right? No, still dictator for life.
At least, he's not a terrorist, is he? Well, it's been proved that Lybia has destroyed at least 2 airliners.
If the official story about Lybia was true, it would be such an asset for the current administration that they would be talking about it every day. Yet, Gaddafi's "redemption" receives a surprisingly low media coverage.
When you read between the lines, you realize that Gaddafi got an exceptional deal. 1. He got pardoned for his terrorist acts, 2. economic sanctions were lifted, 3. the US has stopped trying to kill him. In exchange for that : 1. he gave up a non-existing WMD program, 2. he paid a token sum to his victims' families, 3. he gave up terrorist activities (which he had not been able to pursue in the latest 10 years because of the embargo). In exchange, US/UK got 1. drilling rights for Lybian oil, 2. a good PR case for their "War against Terror" (TM) brand.
The irony is that, in 2003, Iraq and Lybia were very similar. Both were led by homicidal madmen, both were under UN embargo, both had no WMD, both were rich in oil.
There were just 2 differences. Lybia was actually a terrorist state and Iraq was not willing to give access to it's oil.
Guess which one was invaded...
Parent
Re:Really? (Score:5, Insightful)
Iraq gave plenty of access to it's oil -- it was selling as much as it could, as fast as it could to finance it's war with Iran.
You forgot the teensy fact that we had tens of thousands of troops sitting next door to Iraq; had suppressed most of their military; and had all the logistics already in place. Iraq was primed, Libya was not. Iraq was a perfect buffer to Iran -- we don't give a shit about a buffer with Tunisia, Algeria or Egypt. Libya complied with the conditions set upon it by the World Court and U.N., Iraq did not.
There are plenty of things to bash this administration about without having to make some up.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
So Gaddafi is no longer the boss in Lybia?
Not only that, but Libya is no longer spelled "Libya" either.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Personally I find it interesting that, in the build up to the current war in Iraq, the US administration tried to make out that Saddam Hussien had proven links to the funding of terrorist activities in the west - which now turns out not to be true - whereas Gaddafi is known to have directly funded and supported international terrorist operations for many years, and yet now he is our best mate. I wonder why that is..?
Oil. (Score:3, Informative)
New Meaning (Score:3, Funny)
back to the future (Score:3, Funny)
"It's the Lybians!"
Before the comments roll in... (Score:5, Insightful)
Its 6 years old but sure makes for nice reading. Stuff like that makes the OLPC worth it IMO.
Would be nice.. (Score:3, Insightful)
Also I had heard they were going to remove the wind-up power, I guess they changed their mind again? I think these seem really cool and would love to get my hands on one...
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Yeah, I can see it now:
$100 laptop sold on eBay for $3735928559
Also (Score:2, Funny)
how about one laptop per child in US? (Score:2, Insightful)
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because that would be socialism, apparently (which is way bad). strangely enough, spending $300 billion to fix iraq for iraqis is just peachy.
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That should be "over $300 billion" and "\"fix\"".
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try living in a socialist country like mine before spewing bullshit, thanks
Re:how about one laptop per child in US? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Too Bad India Opted Out (Score:3, Insightful)
Great Scott! (Score:4, Funny)
Wind up? (Score:2)
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I posted just one minute after you. According to this: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/OLPC_myths [laptop.org] the crank has been dropped and
Wind-up crank? (Score:3, Informative)
Is this more shoddy BBC journalism? I thought this had been dropped from the OLPC spec a while ago?
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Glad that's sorted.
Not wind-up. WIND up. (Score:2)
okay, that was pretty lame. its not worth ruining my average postinthwhoops.asdflksubmit
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They haven't even met their $100 target even without the laptop. Maybe Libya will buy them for $100, but they don't "cost" that on the BOM even without the handcrank
Libya: highest std of living in Africa (Score:5, Informative)
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Re:Libya: highest std of living in Africa (Score:4, Funny)
O
You-> -+-
/ \
Parent
Improves Morals (Score:5, Funny)
It's damn good idea (Score:3, Interesting)
Question is: Are those kids going to learn something or just ignore those computers? Thing is that there're not many things to play with in Libya. Of course if you don't count sand.
That creates very intresting experiment. You have a lot of kids who have nothing to do except playing with computers. Almost 24/7. And they have friends who do the same... What kind of outcome we can get?
I personally think that Qudaffi is not stupid. That's a great investment in future. And great chance - where else can you buy valuable education for $100? If I'm right, we will see many other contries to follow the suit.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Why? (Score:5, Informative)
Judge by facts, not because your own dictator says "evil man over there".
Yes, human rights are still a problem. But a country that just legalised imprisoning people without charge, trial, access to lawyer and for as long as you like is not really the party that should speak accusingly of other parties on this matter.
Get rid of your own dictator first before you tell others to do so.
Parent
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Education works. Laptops are a nice way of showing some effort on that front.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The maker is being completely idiotic not selling them to geeks. I'd pay $200.00 for one right now for tinkering. Hell as a backpacking/camping PC it's down right perfect!
So the third world will get their money via paypal and ebay, and geeks get them in spite of the sillyness of the company/foundation making them.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Somehow I highly doubt that those kids in the poor countries could engage in any financial relationship with anyone abroad.
Re:Why? (Score:5, Insightful)
And if their Jamahiriya government style wanted to 'rape their own country and KEEP those poor kids poor" why would they be buying the laptops or trying to create a more open Libya?
Parent
Re:Why? (Score:4, Insightful)
Read here:u ll/443254b.html [nature.com]
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v443/n7109/f
The six are all foreign workers. Poor conditions at the hospital led to 400 kids getting AIDS, and now the Libyan "government" is trying these six in a death-penalty case to try to blame them for the poor conditions at the hospital.
Libya is a 3rd-world hell-hole, but it doesn't have to be. There's plenty of money, they just need to can the idiot running the place and get an actual government. Probably the best piece that I've read on Libya:
http://www.laweekly.com/general/features/in-the- land-of-the-brother-leader/12/
In Michael Totten's words: Libya is the most oppressive state on earth next to North Korea.
I would strongly suggest that anyone in Libya who may be reading this to read the "Declaration of Independence" of the US. There you will find that you have a duty to can the dictator. Note: DUTY.
Parent
Re: (Score:2, Informative)
I want to challenge your perceptions. (Score:5, Insightful)
It is a rich continent and although technology ("progress?") hasn't reached every corner that does not mean the images of doe eyed children starving to death in the middle of nowhere are emblematic of the entire continent.
Something the computer _CAN_ provide is information. What I mean is you can take all the supplies you like but unless you have a hand book or instruction manual those supplies (unless it is just food aid) are all but useless. Imagine having the biggest reference book ever openly available for you and your tutors. Want to build a damn for hydroelectricity in your village? Search for it. Want to build a wind turbine? Search for it then search for companies that can supply and ship components you can't make.
When you talk of providing modern medicine - yes, great. Now look at who rapes who. The "west" (with its extraordinarily tight grip of patents, trademarks, copyrights on most modern drugs) is implicit in the denial of medicine to these countries. Why? Because the corporations of the west will not sell drugs in those countries at the low prices required.
Libya is certainly not as ravaged as your post would indicate. It's a rich(ish) country with food, oil, medicine etc etc. Although maybe their dictator is a bit loco. Then again, he certainly seems to have grown up a lot over the last 20 years.
Other problems in Africa (Darfur, Ethiopea, Eritrea, Congo Basin etc) are cause by _WAR_. If it wasn't for the gutless inaction of the UN then maybe, just maybe those problems would have been sorted out (or at least the long road to recovery) long ago.
Sorry if it sounds like I'm ranting but.. well.. I guess I am.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
USA life expectancy: 77.85 years
Yup, they're just about starving, there. I can see the corpses piling up daily...
Read the Summary At Least (Score:2)
They want to make these laptops brightly colored so that if an adult is seen with one of them, it will be widely known that they have stolen fro
Re: (Score:2)