Some 'Next-Gen' DVDs May Not Work With Vista 293
schnikies79 wrote to mention an article on the Times Online site, where they report that a 'substantial number' of Vista PCs will be unable to play HD-DVDs or Blu-ray discs, as a result of DRM requirements made by the operating system. From the article: "Dave Marsh, the lead program manager for video at Microsoft, said that if the PC used a digital connection to link with the monitor or television, then it would require the highest level of content protection, known as HDCP, to play the discs. If it did not have such protection, Vista would shut down the signal, he said."
Coming Soon to a PC Near You -- Not Just Yet. (Score:5, Informative)
For anyone who's been following the recent debates about Vista, this is already old news. But now the mainstream seems to be picking up on it.
What the article doesn't mention is that, probably precisely for this reason, there seems to be an agreement between Sony and Microsoft that HDCP protection won't actually be required by Blu-Ray discs until at least 2010, maybe even 2012. [arstechnica.com] Remember, it's the disc that actually needs to require it, the operating system only provides this as an option.
That doesn't make the system anymore pleasing though. I wonder how far Microsoft will actually get with it. Customers do seem to get upset with this, and it wouldn't be the first time Microsoft has had to make "concessions" because of public criticism.
Peter Gutmann's paper [auckland.ac.nz] on Vista's content protection is really recommended reading, even if it's a bit polemic. And nothing beats Microsoft's own document [microsoft.com], written by the same guy that was interviewed for Times Online.
Article subject is wrong (Score:5, Informative)
The next-gen DVD's will work with Vista, but you need to have HDCP compatible hardware if the HD DVD has the HDCP flag.
Plus, AFAIK, there are 0 HD DVD's that have this flag enabled. Rumored it will not be activated on any disc before 2010, if at all.
Re:Article subject is wrong (Score:5, Informative)
It may be disabled for Blu-Ray, but it is definately enabled for HD-DVD, which is exactly why the guy that wrote BackupHDDVD did it - his computer wouldn't play his HD-DVDs in their original format, despite a brand new monitor and a less-than-a-year-old video card.
Re:Article subject is wrong (Score:5, Informative)
Even if the disc doesn't have this set, you'll still need HDCP if you want a digital link to the monitor.
No DRM'ed Next-Gen DVDs will work with Linux (Score:1, Informative)
Oh, and Mac OSX will have the same DRM support as Vista wrt such discs, so Apple fanboys don't have much leg to stand on wrt gloating either.
Re:Article subject is wrong (Score:1, Informative)
Get a clue. This isn't just about DVDs.
From the article here: http://www.emedialive.com/Articles/ReadArticle.as
As a consumer, you have no control over when HDCP is used to encrypt content between your display and cable/satellite set-top box. In fact, even the movie studios don't have explicit control over HDCP activation. The real power broker in the HDCP sweepstakes is your cable or satellite provider. The content owner may place the Redistribution Control Descriptor (aka Broadcast Flag, RCD) or DTCP descriptor into the stream, but it is the provider that controls what security protocol is enforced when these flags are detected in the stream [see "Checkered Flag," www.emedialive.com/Articles/ReadArticle.aspx?Arti
Re:Coming Soon to a PC Near You -- Not Just Yet. (Score:4, Informative)
What the article says is that there is an agreement not to implement the Image Constraint Token (ICT) yet. This is a token that forces a downgrade of analog signals. This is why the Xbox 360 can have a HD-DVD add-on without a HDMI port.
This does not apply to digital output. Even if the discs don't have this set, you still need HDCP if you want to get a digital link to the monitor.
So, if you are using VGA to the monitor you are ok for the moment, but stuffed if you are using DVI or HDMI without HDCP.
Of course, this understanding comes from reading the AACS licence agreement (freely available from the aacsla website). Unfortunately, this agreement is as clear as mud, so I may be wrong.
Who stream copies anyway? (Score:3, Informative)
The future of media cracking isn't signal capture, its firmware hacking DVD drives (if that much effort will even be required).
Re:Either you are mistaken or Marsh is mistaken. (Score:5, Informative)
However, even if the disc doesn't have this set, you still can't get unencrypted digital output (such as DVI without HDCP). Unencrypted digital output is simply not one of the allowed output formats of AACS encrypted media.
Thus, you will be able to currently play discs at full resolution over VGA, but (without new HDCP capable hardware) it simply won't work over DVI.
Re:What if.... (Score:2, Informative)
Lets's review:
* Tragic (or dramatic) irony occurs when a character onstage is ignorant, but the audience watching knows his or her eventual fate, as in Sophocles' play Oedipus the King.
This is you, minus the eventual outcome (unless everyone knows you'll get modded down
* Socratic irony takes place when someone (classically a teacher) pretends to be foolish or ignorant, but is not (and the teaching-audience, but not the student-victim, realizes the teacher's ploy).This would be me in my original post
* Cosmic irony is a sharp incongruity between our expectation of an outcome and what actually occurs.My comparison between DHCP and HDCP
So I think I've demonstrated fairly well that I understand the concept of irony, while you have a wildly distorted perspective of literary terms.
Subject is backwards (Score:2, Informative)
but article is wrong about only Vista needing HDCP (Score:3, Informative)
Also, people are understandably confusing two different DRM components: HDCP and ICT. ICT (Image Constraint Token) is the DRM that downgrades the video if played over analog connections. ICT hasn't been implemented yet and most studios have agreed not to implement it until around 2010 at the earliest.
read the spec, idiots (Score:4, Informative)
READ THE GODDAMN SPECIFICATION BEFORE YOU SPOUT OUT BOLLOCKS!
Link [microsoft.com]
- HD will output flawlessly on any output when HDCP is not requested by the content producer
- If HDCP is requested, the content can either be degraded to standard definition or blocked completely
- It will be degraded, not blocked. Content providers are greedy but not stupid
That times article is retarded, and makes it sound as though you can't watch HD on a digital monitor at all but "huuuuuuuurrrr it'll be just fine on analog." To reiterate, content providers might be greedy but they're not stupid. Given the option of degrading or blocking, they will go for degrading so that you can be enticed to think how much better it would be in HD if you go buy their fancy kit, and also to reduce all the complaints of "my disc is broken!"Seriously, seeing as half the people responding above don't know what they're talking about,how is the average consumer supposed to know that their disc isn't playing because they need a better TV?
The amount of FUD surrounding this is really pissing me off, especially when supposedly reputable sources like the times end up shitting out absolute nonsense.
Re:MSFT Development Cycle (Score:3, Informative)
Re:Article subject is wrong (Score:3, Informative)
Re: ICT, HDCP, and AACS
Dear sirs or madams,
You are entirely confusing two seperate parts of the Advanced Access Content System (AACS). This is understandable since AACS is intended to be confusing. The Image Constraint Token (ICT) is what degrades signal quality when using an analog connection (VGA, S-Video, etc). It is intented to close the "analog hole," and prevent near-perfect copies from being produced. The XBox360 uses analog outputs, so it falls into this category. It is rumored that ICT will not be enabled until 2010 or 2012, if ever.
As for full digital, a High Definition Content Path (HDCP, or HDCP path, like PIN number) is required. ICT is unrelated to HDCP, which is designed to close the "digital hole" and prevent perfect copies from being produced. That means if you're using a DVI connection, you're screwed unless your video card and monitor both support HDCP. This is something like 0% of current setups. There is no content degredation when playing to a non-conforming digital display, or from a non-conforming video card -- it simply will not play, and there is no exception or degredation. It is not a flag like the ICT, and there is no (legitimate) way to remove this requirement.
Again, if you're using a traditional CRT, or an HDTV with a VGA input, you're likely unaffected, for now.
If you're using a monitor with DVI, or an older HDTV with DVI but no HDCP support, you're screwed.
Re:Article subject is wrong (Score:3, Informative)