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Some 'Next-Gen' DVDs May Not Work With Vista 293

Posted by Zonk from the that-seems-like-an-oversight dept.
schnikies79 wrote to mention an article on the Times Online site, where they report that a 'substantial number' of Vista PCs will be unable to play HD-DVDs or Blu-ray discs, as a result of DRM requirements made by the operating system. From the article: "Dave Marsh, the lead program manager for video at Microsoft, said that if the PC used a digital connection to link with the monitor or television, then it would require the highest level of content protection, known as HDCP, to play the discs. If it did not have such protection, Vista would shut down the signal, he said."
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Some 'Next-Gen' DVDs May Not Work With Vista More

Some 'Next-Gen' DVDs May Not Work With Vista

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  • MSFT Development Cycle (Score:4, Funny)

    by HangingChad ( 677530 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:00PM (#17523966) Homepage

    Ready!

    Fire!

    Aim!

    • It's really:

      Ready!

      Fire! Fire! Fire! Fire!

      Aim!

  • Paging DVD Jon (Score:5, Funny)

    by Weaselmancer ( 533834 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:01PM (#17523968)

    DVD Jon to the white courtesy phone, please.

    • Re:Paging DVD Jon (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:11PM (#17524146)
      No, please don't. Making stupid DRM'd technologies acceptable to the average end user by hacking them really does more harm than good.

      I'm actually hoping the technology advances to the point where it can enforce the letter of the license *EXACTLY* so people wake up to how oppressive the various license agreements (both the Windows one and the ones for the music and movie media) are.

      If people had any idea how bad it was (can't show a DVD on a college dorm shared TV because that's a public display that the DVD doesn't give you a license for ; can't install windows on VMs for testing without paying more ; etc) - they'd object much more strongly.

      The current situation where it's easy to break Windows and DVD licenses just advantages unethical companies and people and hurts the ones that attempt to be law abiding.

    • Re: (Score:3, Funny)

      by iminplaya ( 723125 )
      picks up the red phone

      "No, the WHITE phone"
    • It's not like we haven't known this since day one, and it's not like you can go and buy PCs with other operating systems that don't have these restrictions. How much does anybody want to bet that when Apple supports a BD drive that they won't have to support HDCP/HDMI restrictions just like everybody else.

  • Coming Soon to a PC Near You -- Not Just Yet. (Score:5, Informative)

    by Renegade Lisp ( 315687 ) * on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:01PM (#17523978)

    For anyone who's been following the recent debates about Vista, this is already old news. But now the mainstream seems to be picking up on it.

    What the article doesn't mention is that, probably precisely for this reason, there seems to be an agreement between Sony and Microsoft that HDCP protection won't actually be required by Blu-Ray discs until at least 2010, maybe even 2012. [arstechnica.com] Remember, it's the disc that actually needs to require it, the operating system only provides this as an option.

    That doesn't make the system anymore pleasing though. I wonder how far Microsoft will actually get with it. Customers do seem to get upset with this, and it wouldn't be the first time Microsoft has had to make "concessions" because of public criticism.

    Peter Gutmann's paper [auckland.ac.nz] on Vista's content protection is really recommended reading, even if it's a bit polemic. And nothing beats Microsoft's own document [microsoft.com], written by the same guy that was interviewed for Times Online.

    • What the article doesn't mention is that, probably precisely for this reason, there seems to be an agreement between Sony and Microsoft that HDCP protection won't actually be required by Blu-Ray discs until at least 2010, maybe even 2012. Remember, it's the disc that actually needs to require it, the operating system only provides this as an option.

      To me this raises two questions. 1) what about HD-DVD? 2) is this so-called agreement on paper?

      • To me this raises two questions. 1) what about HD-DVD? 2) is this so-called agreement on paper?

        I can't comment on the first, but as to the second point: This is essentially a rumour that was "leaked" at a conference, and picked up by journalists. Read the arstechnica article linked above. It links to a German article that is the original source for this "rumour". Conveniently for Sony and Microsoft, now everybody seems to be assured that all of this won't be real for a while. I doubt you'd get anythin

    • Re:Coming Soon to a PC Near You -- Not Just Yet. (Score:4, Informative)

      by robosmurf ( 33876 ) * on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:34PM (#17524508)
      There is a lot of confusion about this still, but I don't think what the ars technica article says is what you think it means.

      What the article says is that there is an agreement not to implement the Image Constraint Token (ICT) yet. This is a token that forces a downgrade of analog signals. This is why the Xbox 360 can have a HD-DVD add-on without a HDMI port.

      This does not apply to digital output. Even if the discs don't have this set, you still need HDCP if you want to get a digital link to the monitor.

      So, if you are using VGA to the monitor you are ok for the moment, but stuffed if you are using DVI or HDMI without HDCP.

      Of course, this understanding comes from reading the AACS licence agreement (freely available from the aacsla website). Unfortunately, this agreement is as clear as mud, so I may be wrong.

    • Either you are mistaken or Marsh is mistaken. (Score:4, Interesting)

      by dpbsmith ( 263124 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:38PM (#17524562) Homepage
      Microsoft's representative could easily have chosen to say "In the future, by the year 2010, HD DVD and Blu-ray disks will certainly require such protection."

      What he DID say according to TFA [timesonline.co.uk] was "At the moment HD DVD and Blu-ray Discs certainly require such protection."

      I don't know why he would be misinformed, or why, given the importance of this issue to Microsoft, he would be less than careful about what he said.

      Most likely, current disks really don't play, because of some complexity in the interaction between Vista's DRM software and hardware that results in an illogical and unintended consequence.

      If current disks will play, why on earth wouldn't he have taken great pains to say so and to stress the point.

      • Re:Either you are mistaken or Marsh is mistaken. (Score:5, Informative)

        by robosmurf ( 33876 ) * on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:49PM (#17524760)
        Without the Image Constraint Token (which is not yet implemented), you can get full resolution output over analog (e.g. VGA or component).

        However, even if the disc doesn't have this set, you still can't get unencrypted digital output (such as DVI without HDCP). Unencrypted digital output is simply not one of the allowed output formats of AACS encrypted media.

        Thus, you will be able to currently play discs at full resolution over VGA, but (without new HDCP capable hardware) it simply won't work over DVI.
        • The article was not about analog gear, it was about new high-end gear with digital outputs. And you (and Marsh) are saying that current disks will not play on these systems now, not that starting in 2010 they won't play.
          • Yes, Marsh was right: current HD DVD/BluRay discs will not play over digital connections without the required HDCP. However, this applies to all computers (Windows, OS X, Linux) that want to play these discs legally, not just Vista PCs. Marsh was simply describing what was required to play these discs on Vista PCs, but the article incorrectly assumed these HDCP requirements only applied to Vista. These HDCP requirements are set by HD DVD and BluRay, not Microsoft. These requirements apply to current Windows

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by CaptnMArk ( 9003 )
          There is a problem though:

          I've seen a S**Y TV that supports 1920x1080 over HDCP but only 1280x768 over VGA.
    • Remember, it's the disc that actually needs to require it, the operating system only provides this as an option.

      Sorry, I don't understand. How can the disc require HDCP? The OS is the only thing that can enforce such a requirement... how can the disc know that the computer does or does not have HDCP? The disc isn't software, it's data the OS reads and does with as it pleases, whether that be enforcing DRM standards or not. So I'm missing something.
      • If the disc has the ICT flag set then the OS *must* obey it by shutting down all analogue connections (inc. vga and composite) and allowing only HDCP protected digital connections.

        Luckily it hasn't been enabled on any discs yet (HDDVD discs aren't even region coded).
        • If the disc has the ICT flag set then the OS *must* obey it by shutting down all analogue connections (inc. vga and composite) and allowing only HDCP protected digital connections.

          According to the license agreement, I assume, not any technical feature of the disk itself. So it's like I thought -- a policy enforced voluntarily by the OS -- and I was confused by wording.
    • My question (modulo a sibling post explaining that this is actually about clenching shut the a[nalog]-hole via ICT) is how Microsoft will implement such an agreement with Sony if/when it comes into effect. Will this be a forced patch of some sort, or does Vista phone home every time you play a Blu-Ray disc to see whether the ICT agreement is now being enforced?

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by foamrotreturns ( 977576 )
        I am so sick of this whole "closing the analog hole" mantra. I wrote a blog entry about this a while ago, and I will quote it here:
        Argh. Blogger is down. Paraphrase:

        Human beings are inherently and irreparably analog. Until there are digital, encrypted inputs into our brains, the analog hole will always be (as it always has been) the human interface. End of story. Game, set, match.

        Trying to close the analog hole is like trying to rake water uphill. It's not gonna happen, and it's just costing the consumer more money - every dollar that the industry spends on making piracy harder is just another dollar that the legal, paying consumer will have to help them recuperate (read: price hikes for paying customers). Enough of thi

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by jdwilso2 ( 90224 )
      people get this confused a lot -- HDCP is currently required in all HD-DVD and Blu-ray content sold by major studios.

      content played over a digital connection currently requires HDCP hardware on both the player and display side or it will not play -- this is as true today on XP as it is on Vista.

      Currently, HDCP protected video (all HD and BD movies at this point) are capable of playback over an analog connection -- i.e. component video. This is the work around -- those with out HDCP computers or TVs can play

  • What if.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by SuperStretchy ( 1018064 ) <acatzr800 AT gmail DOT com> on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:03PM (#17524008)
    Yikes! I'll give it about a week for someone to crack it, but in the mean time, I'd like to know if this also restricts divx encoded avi's and/or games outputted to the tv. I love watching my downloaded copies of Sponge Bob and playing Hello Kitty Island Adventure on the big screen!

    • Typical (Score:2, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward

      I love watching my downloaded copies of Sponge Bob and playing Hello Kitty Island Adventure on the big screen!

      Whenever there is an article critical of Microsoft, there is always some astroturfer pointing out how it is a good thing.

  • DRM, and other artificial technologies designed to protect intellectual property, hinder growth, both economically and technologically.

    Viva los FOSS anarchistas! Viva el revolution!

  • Article subject is wrong (Score:5, Informative)

    by the computer guy nex ( 916959 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:05PM (#17524036)
    "Dave Marsh, the lead program manager for video at Microsoft, said that if the PC used a digital connection to link with the monitor or television, then it would require the highest level of content protection, known as HDCP, to play the discs. If it did not have such protection, Vista would shut down the signal, he said. "

    The next-gen DVD's will work with Vista, but you need to have HDCP compatible hardware if the HD DVD has the HDCP flag.

    Plus, AFAIK, there are 0 HD DVD's that have this flag enabled. Rumored it will not be activated on any disc before 2010, if at all.

    • Re:Article subject is wrong (Score:5, Informative)

      by Andy Dodd ( 701 ) <atd7NO@SPAMcornell.edu> on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:16PM (#17524224) Homepage
      "Plus, AFAIK, there are 0 HD DVD's that have this flag enabled. Rumored it will not be activated on any disc before 2010, if at all."

      It may be disabled for Blu-Ray, but it is definately enabled for HD-DVD, which is exactly why the guy that wrote BackupHDDVD did it - his computer wouldn't play his HD-DVDs in their original format, despite a brand new monitor and a less-than-a-year-old video card.
      • Wait ... let me get this straight.

        Sony is working with the Blu-Ray group to push their standard, which decided (as a group), that they weren't going to enable the flag (just yet), so that people could get used to the format, and so as not to penalize early adopters on HD (TVs, Computers, etc.).

        MicroSoft is working with the HD-DVD consortium, who decided "screw the early adopters", upgrade your hardware, or take a hike.

        So what you're saying is that on Vista, MicroSoft's "Next Gen" operating system, Sony back

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by Tony Hoyle ( 11698 )
        No it isn't enabled for HDDVD, otherwise you wouldn't be able to play it on the xbox 360. There are no plans to enable it either in the near future.

        HDDVD doesn't even have region protection...

        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by StikyPad ( 445176 )
          To: Parent, GP, and GGP
          Re: ICT, HDCP, and AACS

          Dear sirs or madams,

          You are entirely confusing two seperate parts of the Advanced Access Content System (AACS). This is understandable since AACS is intended to be confusing. The Image Constraint Token (ICT) is what degrades signal quality when using an analog connection (VGA, S-Video, etc). It is intented to close the "analog hole," and prevent near-perfect copies from being produced. The XBox360 uses analog outputs, so it falls into this category. It is r

          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by StikyPad ( 445176 )
            Oops, HDCP stands for High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection. My mistake! Also I forgot to cite ICT [digitalhome.ca], AACS [aacsla.com] and HDCP [digitalhome.ca], which would have saved me from looking retarded when I checked the links. That's what I get for going by memory.

    • Re:Article subject is wrong (Score:5, Informative)

      by robosmurf ( 33876 ) * on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:17PM (#17524238)
      I don't think that's true. If I recall correctly, the Image Constraint Token (which is what is not yet activated) affects only the analog outputs.

      Even if the disc doesn't have this set, you'll still need HDCP if you want a digital link to the monitor.

      • Re:Its a scam (Score:5, Insightful)

        by goodtim ( 458647 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:46PM (#17524710) Journal
        This is slashdot, and still we aren't really sure how HDCP works. I fear the worst for Joe Blow consumer.
        • My information comes from reading the AACS and HDCP licencing agreements.

          Even having done that, I'm still not sure what the requirements actually are.

          The current HD standards are a complete mess. For instance HD-DVD still hasn't sorted out whether it will have region-coding. This is despite HD-DVD devices already shipping.
    • ...because TFA says that according to Marsh, "At the moment HD DVD and Blu-ray Discs certainly require such protection."

      "At the moment" are his words. He could have said "in the future" but he said "at the moment."

  • uhuh (Score:3, Funny)

    by scenestar ( 828656 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:05PM (#17524038) Homepage Journal
    And we can also be sure that Some 'Potential-customers' May refuse Work With Vista as well.

  • Orwell was right (Score:5, Funny)

    by macadamia_harold ( 947445 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:05PM (#17524046) Homepage
    If you want a picture of the future, imagine DRM stomping on a human face -- forever.

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Jerf ( 17166 )
      RIGHTS MANAGEMENT ERROR

      Your brain's license to Microsoft 1984 has expired and you are no longer permitted to use Microsoft 1984 in any way.

      Error 0x8000002e: Imagination query failed (BRM exception)

      To purchase the continued right to use Microsoft 1984 will cost you $19.84 for this year. Please indicate your acceptance of this charge by:
      • Hating Microsoft
      • Moaning
      • Experiencing braindeath

      Microsoft - What Do You Want To Think Today?

  • except.... (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Lumpy ( 12016 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:05PM (#17524048) Homepage
    If it did not have such protection, Vista would shut down the signal, he said.

    At least until that crack hit's the bittorrent sites that disables this "feature".

  • Oh noes! (Score:4, Funny)

    by nacturation ( 646836 ) <nacturation AT gmail DOT com> on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:09PM (#17524106) Journal
    No Next Gen? What will I do without being able to watch Picard and crew?!?
     

  • Recent Headlines (Score:5, Insightful)

    by flickwipe ( 954150 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:11PM (#17524138)
    Some 'Next-Gen' DVDs May Not Work With Vista

    EMI Considers Abandoning DRM on CDs

    No Ceasefire in DVD Format Battle


    Today is a good day for DRM to die...

  • "the studios' new operating system" (Score:3, Interesting)

    by nickos ( 91443 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:11PM (#17524144)
    Microsoft has built a component into the studios' new operating system, Vista

    I think that just about sums it up. Why is MS in the studios' pockets anyway?

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Achromatic1978 ( 916097 )
      I'm curious to know exactly why you (seem to) think that Apple is somehow going to get a free pass from those same studios we hear about suing file sharers.

      To Microsoft: Steve, Bill, you gotta implement DRM in your OS, or your users aren't going to be watching HDCP movies through it.
      To Apple: Mr Jobs, you're a stand up guy, tell you what, your OS can completely ignore the HDCP bit and give your users that warm snuggly cosy feeling of feeling like they've stuck it to the man.

      It ain't going to happen. OSX

  • Slow news day? (Score:2, Insightful)

    by yesthatmcgurk ( 1011297 )
    Speculation about a yet-to-be-released operating system not being compatible with yet-to-be-released video discs on yet-to-be-released hardware? Here's a news bit for you--monkeys may fly out of my ass. News at 10 on /.

  • You mean Peter Gutmann was RIGHT? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by dpbsmith ( 263124 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:19PM (#17524272) Homepage
    Mind-boggling.

    I have to admit that even though Peter Gutmann is a respected computer security expert while I know virtually nothing about Vista, I was inclined to think his analysis [auckland.ac.nz] just had to be wrong. He had to be misunderstanding something, or positing a hypothetical situation that would never arise with real-world commercial gear, or something like that. Microsoft simply couldn't be that stupid.

    Now it turns out that he's right, and that presumably-unintended but not-unforeseeable consequences of Vista's DRM scheme will prevent it from being used in the one way you'd think Microsoft would most want it to be used. It is precisely the enthusiastic with money to devote to their video hobby who are likely to be the early adopters of PCs as home video platforms.

    Microsoft is coming perilously close to providing the platform that secures protected perfectly content by preventing _anyone_ from viewing it.

  • OK, for us who arent *nix experts. (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Churla ( 936633 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:19PM (#17524278)
    Could someone please elaborate for me a Lunix/Unix/OSX system which we can get currently which would play an HD-DVD disc with the HDCP flag up without requiring HDCP compliant DRM in place within the OS?

    It seems MS is being bashed for following the requirements being set forth by the media producers. Whereas a number of MS practices may be less than honorable, in this case from what I see they are simply holding to the requirements of the format standard.

    All in all I think the media companies like Sony have been given enough DRM rope and are within a year or two of effectively fashioning themselves a noose from it, but that's just MHO on the topic.
    • ... it is not an adequate defense for them to say they were "just following orders."

      • Re: (Score:2)

        by Churla ( 936633 )
        So if they have the options of :
        A) Support the format with the restrictions the owners of the format require.
        B) Don't support the formats they know will be wanted by the users

        They should choose B?

        They aren't "following orders" in this case. They are doing what apparently is legally required for them to be allowed to support the format. If you want to vilify MS for things they choose to do which are malevolent (like in my opinion having 6 different versions of an OS which are simply licensing flags on the
        • Does someone have a gun to Bill Gates' head demanding that he support this format that hurts the consumer? Nope. Microsoft saw what the consumer wants and what the content provider wants and went with the content provider.

        • Microsoft designed Vista, Microsoft largely "designed" the Vista hardware requirements, Microsoft is responsible for the complex web of interdependencies that prevent current disks from playing on current digitally-interface displays.

          I simply outright do not believe that U. S. law requires Microsoft to prevent the owner of a legally-purchased DVD U.S.-region HD-DVD from displaying that content for on the owner's legally-purchased video display.

          I think what you are saying is that Microsoft intended to implem

        • Re: (Score:2)

          by ADRA ( 37398 )
          "B) Don't support the formats they know will be wanted by the users"

          I think you're dreaming if there are any more than a pittance of users that are thinking: "I need my Hi-Def movies played on my computer and I'll only buy the OS that supports it."

          Think about the 'market' for HiDef Computer users. You have
          1. Very very small market of people that use computers directly as home theatre devices (I do this for web browsing/games)
          2. Very very small market of users that

    • Re:OK, for us who arent *nix experts. (Score:5, Interesting)

      by cfulmer ( 3166 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:37PM (#17524546) Journal
      The DRM component is dictated by a maze of legal agreements among the HD patent holders, the content industry and the consumer electronics industry. Vista's limitations are, in part, dictated by such agreements -- without them, you would not be able to buy a blue-ray or HD-DVD drive for your computer.

      The problem, though, is that this situation did not need to be this way -- Microsoft could have teamed up with the electronics industry to say, effectively, "go to H*ll" to the content producers. The content producers would then have had to choose between (A) not releasing HD content or (B) releasing a non-DRM'd version. Their claim is that they would choose (A). But, they're full of crap -- doing so would deny them a new revenue stream in the face of increased competitive pressures. If the market didn't force them to switch, their stockholders would have.

      [Note one problem: Sony is in both camps.]

    • It seems MS is being bashed for following the requirements being set forth by the media producers. Whereas a number of MS practices may be less than honorable, in this case from what I see they are simply holding to the requirements of the format standard.

      Since the media producers aren't actually paying for the software, it's appropriate that the people who are paying for it take notice that their interests aren't taking the highest priority.

      I realize there is a twisty maze of legal requirements by which th

  • It'll be either FreeBSD or if I have too much trouble getting that working, XP.
  • The HDCP/HDMI standard is very restrictive and VISTA has always been touted as fully supporting it. This is not news, this is just disturbing fact.

  • Not particularly unusual (Score:3, Interesting)

    by vanyel ( 28049 ) * on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @01:40PM (#17524606) Journal
    My Denon receiver (and/or the HD Tivo I have hooked up to it) does the same thing. I tried to hook up an LCD monitor to it so I could twiddle my Tivo without firing up the projector --- no dice. What's going to be interesting is seeing how virtual machine software handles virtual drives...

    • Re: (Score:2)

      by Jerf ( 17166 )
      If you're thinking that you can create a virtual drive to mount an image of an HD-DVD or BluRay disc which will have this crazy bug whereby it forgets to activate the DRM, no dice.

      All drivers involved with media playing is going to have to be signed (maybe all of them have to be signed, I don't recall at the moment and I'm confident about the first part of this sentence), and you'll never be able to get your virtual drive signed.

      Virtual drive software has no future on Vista; it is merely one feature that's
  • I don't care about the technicalities. If I put a DVD or any successor into a drive that can play the disk I should see the pictures and hear the audio to the best the hardware can support.

    Vista cannot and should not make any kind of decision on the validity of the disk beyond checking that it is correctly formatted.

    All Microsoft will get is a reputation for unreliability above and beyond the one they have now.
    • Try downloading any video content that ends in a .WMV extension from any P2P network.

      You will find that 99% of .WMV files won't play. When you try to play them, a window pops up and tells you you need to go download some kind of permission file from some unknown website before it will play. Of course, I'm not going to do that.

      So as a result, I now screen out all .WMV extensions from my video searches on P2P networks. They have DRMed themselves right out of my existance. I now assume that anything with a

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by RockClimbingFool ( 692426 )
      THIS HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH MICROSOFT.

      Was that clear enough? The media companies require digital signals to use HDCP, regardless of whether the Image Constraint Token is there.

      You can get full resolution HD video right now if you don't have an HDCP digital connection by using analog outputs, whether that be on your HD-DVD player, BlueRay player, or computer. This is because the ICT is not enabled. In the future they MAY enable it. In that case, those without a digital connection with HDCP

  • priceless? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Jtheletter ( 686279 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:01PM (#17524942)
    New 1080p HD TV: $2,500
    Vista OS Upgrade: $150
    Card and cable for streaming HD A/V to TV: $180
    Internal Blueray Drive: $900
    Blueray movie: $40

    Not being able to view legally purchased media on legally purchased hardware because of arbitrary content restrictions: $3770 apparently.

    All prices approximate but realistic. Thanks Hollywood and Microsoft, obviously the consumer is king!

  • Another reason I won't upgrade (Score:4, Insightful)

    by daVinci1980 ( 73174 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @02:01PM (#17524948) Homepage

    This is one of a long list of reasons that I won't be upgrading to Vista or HD-DVD/BluRay in the forseeable future. The sad thing for all of the companies involved is that I usually am an early adopter of technology.

    I was one of the first people I knew to own a Tivo, DVD-player and an HD set (okay, I didn't own the set but I pressured my dad into buying one and he was really happy with it). I bought a copy of XP pretty much as soon as it was available. Last count, I owned nearly 500 DVDs.

    And that's about as far as my relationship with these companies go. I--a legitimate, paying customer--am unwilling to be inconvenienced one single second, or pay a single extra dollar, to be treated like a criminal. I simply won't do it. So I'll continue buying DVDs until they stop manufacturing them, hopefully by which point this whole fiasco will have blown over.

  • Subject is backwards (Score:2, Informative)

    by mattcoz ( 856085 )
    Wrong: Some 'Next-Gen' DVDs May Not Work With Vista Right: Some PCs May Not Play 'Next-Gen' DVDs The problem is on the hardware side, you need an HDCP capable video card and monitor, and this has been known for a long time.

  • read the spec, idiots (Score:4, Informative)

    by megla ( 859600 ) on Tuesday January 09, 2007 @04:22PM (#17527616)
    The amount of people who just jump to totally the wrong conclusion based on no working knowledge of the system they're talking about is staggering - that includes the times article and most of the comments above. Fuck's sake people.

    READ THE GODDAMN SPECIFICATION BEFORE YOU SPOUT OUT BOLLOCKS!
    Link [microsoft.com]

    2.4.1.1 DVI (Digital) DVI is a high-speed, high-quality, digital pixel interface, developed by the PC industry. It is used in place of analog VGA to connect to PC monitors. It can provide very high resolutions by paralleling separate channels. Intel's HDCP protection is available for DVI, but is not always implemented by hardware manufacturers. HDCP is approved by the content industry, so DVI with HDCP is a great output solution for protected content. In contrast, DVI without HDCP is definitely not liked by content owners, because it provides a pristine digital interface that can be captured cleanly. When playing premium content such as HD-DVD and Blu-Ray DVD, PVP-OPM will be required to turn off or constrict the quality of unprotected DVI. As a result, a regular DVI monitor will either get slightly fuzzy or go black, with a polite message explaining that it doesn't meet security requirements.
    So, to correct:
    • HD will output flawlessly on any output when HDCP is not requested by the content producer
    • If HDCP is requested, the content can either be degraded to standard definition or blocked completely
    • It will be degraded, not blocked. Content providers are greedy but not stupid
    That times article is retarded, and makes it sound as though you can't watch HD on a digital monitor at all but "huuuuuuuurrrr it'll be just fine on analog." To reiterate, content providers might be greedy but they're not stupid. Given the option of degrading or blocking, they will go for degrading so that you can be enticed to think how much better it would be in HD if you go buy their fancy kit, and also to reduce all the complaints of "my disc is broken!"

    Seriously, seeing as half the people responding above don't know what they're talking about,how is the average consumer supposed to know that their disc isn't playing because they need a better TV?

    The amount of FUD surrounding this is really pissing me off, especially when supposedly reputable sources like the times end up shitting out absolute nonsense.

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