levell writes "The schedule for the OpenMoko, an open source, Linux-based Neo1973 smart phone was posted to the community mailing list by Sean Moss-Pultz this morning. On Feb 11, free phones will be sent to key community developers and the community websites/wiki/bug tracker will be available. Then on March 11 (the official developer launch) we'll be able to buy an OpenMoko for $350. After allowing some time for innovative, slick software to be created there will be a mass market launch at which point Sean hopes that 'your mom and dad will want one too.'"
The Nintendo Wii seems to be doing okay (although there was a lot of discussion here when the name was announced), people seem to be able to get past a homonym if they like the product
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make but your assertion is not precisely correct. None of the carriers will "support" a phone you did not buy from them, recently. The general response to any configuration question translates to "go F* yourself." I have an unlocked GSM Windows phone (Voq) and have never been able to get MMS working because T-Mobile will not provide the necessary info.
On the other hand, an unlocked GSM phone like this one at least gives you a choice of carriers.
I think that's wrong. From the specifications, it looks like it's a GSM phone (they don't specifically say it's GSM nor do they say which frequencies it's radio supports) from the fact they say it supports GPRS. As a result, it should work on *any* of the GSM carriers in the US that support the frequencies it uses. Let's assume for a moment it supports at a minimum 900/1800/1900 (hopefully 850 too) - like most tri-band devices do.
Take a look here [gsmworld.com]. According to GSM world there are quite a few GSM carriers
(Cingular is now part of the revenant AT&T. Ma Bell has risen from the grave.) I can think of a big motivator for T-Mobile to pick up on OpenMoko, or whatever they're going to eventually call this thing when the marketers get through with it. AT&T will have iPhone and be the only people with iPhone. T-Mobile will have what to counter it? Crackberry? Sidekick? Please.
OpenMoko looks really, really REALLY good. It has a SCARY resemblance to the Apple device, which was supposedly kept under wraps with do
The OpenMoko is a GSM phone. The only primary networks using GSM in the US right at the moment are Cingular and T-Mobile. Verizon and Sprint/Nextel are CDMA...
Forget the U.S. with its backward mix of cellphone networks. Most of the rest of the world uses GSM [coveragemaps.com], often with easy roaming. Put a SIM card into this phone and it will work almost anywhere across Europe, Africa, Asia, the Middle East, South America, or the Pacific.
See, that's where you're misreading the announcement. The Greenphone is not the World's First Integrated Open Source Mobile Communications Platform at Open Source in Mobile Conference in Amsterdam. The Greenphone may have been first at other locations, but not this conference. So there.
trolltech have a dual licensing approach; some people are irritated by the idea, perhaps by the fact it is so polarised into basically
* GPL forever: at the moment you download you choose the GPL path, you can't later decide to make your project non-GPL and pay the license fee to trolltech and go commercial; this would be a PITA to any bedroom startup; however, I wouldn't be surprised if a few stealth startuos *did* bend this rule
* payware: cough up a license fee for the SDK and support
Linux is GPL. Qt is GPL. The Greenphone's community SDK is GPL. If it was only possible to run Qt applications on the Greenphone, which is a Linux device, where exactly would that make it non-open?
Unfortunately for your argument, there is nothing stopping you from writing software for the Greenphone using GTK. The only problem is that they haven't done the work to make it easy, so it might be a very significant effort to get started.
Perhaps you would be able to understand if you read the Greenphone pricing plan [trolltech.com]. You see, Trolltech only charges for the commercial release of the SDK. The community SDK is free and released under the GPL.
The Greenphone is not a consumer mobile phone, it is a reference board made in very limited quantities. It is a device for developers. It comes with a well thought out SDK based on Qt and Qtopia (both very well tested and mature), which makes creating new applications almost trivial.
$700 is not unheard of in the mobile phone world, anyway
I rely on EDGE for high speed access throughout most of the West (US) and a large part of the East that I visit (Poland, Switzerland, India). This phone looks nice, but no EDGE means antiquated technology.
hopefully this will be the first of a sequence of open phones. if you are seriously interested in being a developer, then you'd need at least two of them, so buy this new "starter" one to get practising so as not to "miss the boat" for unstable/alpha testing, and when the new one comes out you can use it for the beta/release candidate unit. don't kill the device from apathy!
anyway, as I understand it, EDGE is a matter of firmware, not hardware, so I would hope GPRS + HSCD + EDGE will all be featured at s
Okay, I grok the "Open software uber alles" mentality; it's certainly a valid point of view, but of course that's a very VERY tiny market. Reading through the linked post, however - which is just a mailing list submission - I don't really see why anyone would think there'd be any mass market appeal at all regarding this project.
That's fine, if that's what the expectations really are; but the Slashdot submission makes it sound like the people behind the phone think they can take on the world. So please, seriously - tell us WHY anyone outside the "live open or die" community will care?
That's fine, if that's what the expectations really are; but the Slashdot submission makes it sound like the people behind the phone think they can take on the world. So please, seriously - tell us WHY anyone outside the "live open or die" community will care?
Because it is a really nice looking device and they look like they've already put together a great software stack for it, and have an expectation for a lot more interesting applications to be added prior to mass market launch. In short they expect to have mass market appeal because they think (and I have to agree with them on this) that they have a very nice smart phone. Try looking at the press page [openmoko.com] which has pictures of the device and screenshots of it. It looks good. Sure, it's not going to take over the world of mobile phones, but in the class of upper end smartphones (the sort of market the iPhone is pitched toward) it can certainly compete, and given the price, could do well.
I don't really see why anyone would think there'd be any mass market appeal at all regarding this project.
[snip] So please, seriously - tell us WHY anyone outside the "live open or die" community will care?
Au Contraire, everyone cares -- because the wireless companies have such control that the current offerings in the phone industry really suck.
Witness the current excitement over the iPhone -- it's one step closer to actually doing something really useful with all the processing power of the phone
In case you hadn't noticed, open software and the computing academic community have revolutionized the way we live and work by being ahead of the curve. The essential conceptual work of the web, of network protocols, of OS refinement, and now of mobile networks owe their existence to folks like these. The issue isn't whether they'll attain a mass market, its whether their conceptual refinement of the the way we interact with mobile devices and what we expect of them will take root and inform the Cingulars
The only problem is that there is no wifi and probably won't be for a long time. The openmoko crew refuse to implement it cause there's no chip that comes with open driver as of today and there isn't any on the horizon.
One of the greatest advantage of having an open phone is so that you can install a SIP phone on it and use it when there's a wifi connection available which is almost everywhere these days (at work, at home, lots of public places...). When there's an open phone that comes out with wifi int
I, for one, know of no wifi hotspots in my neighbourhood (aside from the one at home) so, not everywhere is there wifi. Aside from that, at offices, if you use too much bandwidth you could get fired; hotspots like at mcdonalds are limited in bandwidth, detrimental for sound quality, if you even get SIPphone services running (some hotspots even outright forbid the use of VOIP). That only leaves home, and I already have a phone there. GSM and GPRS is much more prevalent here in Europe, almost blanket coverage.
Your average consumer might not need WiFi on their phone, but I think it is very important for the slashdot/techie/FLOSS crowd. The main reason is that we want to be able to bypass the cell network whenever possible to avoid paying. WiFi is free and plentiful for me at home, at work, and in many other places, whereas cellular bandwidth is slower and much more expensive. For syncing, downloading music, uploading pictures, and VoIP, WiFi is a requirement for my next phone.
LGPL software is not about free and open source software, its really about proprietary software! Companies want you to think that using LGPL software like GTK+ makes them open source, but it isn't true. They don't give back to the community! The Lessor GPL allows companies to build proprietary software and to rip you off!
Which do you want more of? Free and open source software? or commercial, proprietary software? If you are really for free and open source software, you would use only GPL software like Qt [trolltech.com]
No they didn't, the big difference between iPhone and OpenMoko is that OpenMoko is completely open, so anyone can extend it, while iPhone is closed and only licensed parties can write extensions. This is what uniqe about OpenMoko. Apple added glitter to iPhone, but there are other smart phones (maybe not as good, but I can't judge, it's a long wait till iPhone will be available in Europe) so nothing revolutionary about it. OpenMoko has philosophical feature - openess. So as a geek I know which one is the winner here:)
I'm with you on this. At first I was really excited about the iPhone, and then details came out. This looks like real competition for the iPhone. I don't understand why there are so many negative comments. There are plenty of people who want a phone+computing device. Perhaps not as many as those who want a phone+ipod, but so what. And when you compare specs, this thing isn't bad at all. For example, the OM has a 640x480 resolution. The iPhone has 320x480. The iPhone has a larger built in memory cap
I don't think the OM has multi-touch support because there is a different bit of hardware required to make it work -- which I think Apple has the patent on.
Apple does not have any patents on the iphone. They have applied for about 300, but none have been granted yet. Regarding the multitouch interface, if you search the internet, you'll find that research has been going on in this area since the 1980's. At best, Apple might be granted a patent on the specific technology they've used to support multitouch in their touchscreen, but there are several other ways [nyu.edu] to accomplish the same thing, some of which are already [merl.com] available.
What's wrong with the interface? Describe one you think would be better, maybe someone will implement it.
Okay, I'll gladly bite! Here are a few pet peeves of mine:
For one, why does the display always have to be 'on top of' the keypad? You have to hold the thing with both hands, or nearly drop the phone while reaching for the * 0 # keys. Instead, flip it around so the display is *below* the keypad. Go on,try it with your own phone, right now (just ignore for now that your keys will be upside down): -- One-handed typing will be much easier, as you can hold onto the phone more firmly while typing. Also note how the 'thigh' of your thumb will not obscure the display. -- Two-handed speed-texting will be much more 'private' because your thumb's thighs will keep your display hidden from everyone but you (the teens will love this!).
For another, who the hell decided that a phone's keypad should be the inverse of a standard numeric keypad??!? That's just plain daft! Not so long ago, some phones were one way, some the other; but then some moron decided that the One True Way was NOT the way of every single keyboard. What?!?! That makes no sense!
How about that? Who will be the first to implement that? And, will they be able to patent it, now that it's described here?
The dimensions of the device break the interface: it's 120.7 x 62 x 18.7 mm -- 4.5" x 2.25" x 2/3". The thing if a FREAKING BRICK.
Small phones are no use if you want to do anything interesting with them. If you only want to phone your girlfriend, then fine, get a totty little device. But if you want to present or work with data it's useless. And increasingly as we move into location-aware, network connected devices there is a huge number of applications which just weren't possible before. I've moved from a Sony-Ericsson P910i to a Hewlett Packard IPAQ 6515 - the Sony-Ericson is bigger than OpenMoko, the IPAQ a lot bigger. Why? Because to run real applications you need more screen real estate (and the IPAQ has built-in GPS, which I need for the applications I'm building, but so does OpenMoko). 640x480 pixels is great news. Open API is even better news. I will definitely be playing with one of these, and soon.
I think you're being overly cynical, the people who are involved in this include people like Harald Welde (of the campaign to stop [gnumonks.org]GPL violations [gpl-violations.org]. I think they genuinely believe in this, they're not just marketing weenies out to make a quick buck.
Explicitly free (modifiable) device with integrated GSM functionality available for development prior to launch. Please point to equivalents? Or, I suppose that if you could, you already would have in your post.
the only way to get the functionality and openness of openmoko is to use a linux device like a laptop or nokia tablet or sharp zaurus and use a GSM modem adaptor (eg an audiovox or enfora CF modem and cf-pcmcia adaptor). the end result is quite a lot bigger than the 'moko.
there were hopes for the iPhone to be somewhat more open and for a full SDK to be available, but Steve Jobs nixed that one.
apart from reasonable success with the HTC Universal smartphone and other devices to which linux is being port
What makes you think this thing will be running a Debian based system?
For an on-topic thought. I had seen this quite a while back and was excited about the potential, but had the faint scent of vaporware on it. The screen will be very nice, but more pixels = more battery draw...which is why most of the HTC devices are stuck at qvga instead of full vga. I wonder if they have some tricks up their sleeve to mitigate that factor.
SSH? (Score:2, Funny)
Moko has an unfortunate homonym “moco [wordreference.com]”; if it manages to live that one down, however, here's hoping it has ssh.
Re:SSH? (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
FYI (Score:3, Informative)
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None of the carriers will "support" a phone you did not buy from them, recently. The general response to any configuration question translates to "go F* yourself." I have an unlocked GSM Windows phone (Voq) and have never been able to get MMS working because T-Mobile will not provide the necessary info.
On the other hand, an unlocked GSM phone like this one at least gives you a choice of carriers.
While Cingular/AT&T
Re:FYI - Wrong? (Score:2, Informative)
As a result, it should work on *any* of the GSM carriers in the US that support the frequencies it uses. Let's assume for a moment it supports at a minimum 900/1800/1900 (hopefully 850 too) - like most tri-band devices do.
Take a look here [gsmworld.com]. According to GSM world there are quite a few GSM carriers
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If I'm not mistaken, it's actually quad-band.
AT&T has the exclusive on iPhone (Score:2)
I can think of a big motivator for T-Mobile to pick up on OpenMoko, or whatever they're going to eventually call this thing when the marketers get through with it. AT&T will have iPhone and be the only people with iPhone. T-Mobile will have what to counter it? Crackberry? Sidekick? Please.
OpenMoko looks really, really REALLY good. It has a SCARY resemblance to the Apple device, which was supposedly kept under wraps with do
It's actually kind of obvious... (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:It's actually kind of obvious... (Score:5, Interesting)
Parent
First open source mobile? I think not. (Score:5, Informative)
The website states the following:
First one? I beg to differ. Should I point out Trolltech's Qtopia Greenphone [trolltech.com]? I believe it precedes OpenMoko by a considerable notch.
Re:First open source mobile? I think not. (Score:5, Funny)
See, that's where you're misreading the announcement. The Greenphone is not the World's First Integrated Open Source Mobile Communications Platform at Open Source in Mobile Conference in Amsterdam . The Greenphone may have been first at other locations, but not this conference. So there.
Parent
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* GPL forever: at the moment you download you choose the GPL path, you can't later decide to make your project non-GPL and pay the license fee to trolltech and go commercial; this would be a PITA to any bedroom startup; however, I wouldn't be surprised if a few stealth startuos *did* bend this rule
* payware: cough up a license fee for the SDK and support
if you don't li
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The question is whether you can write software for the phone that doesn't use QT. If the answer is "no", then it isn't open.
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*cough*.
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http://www.trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenpho
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$700 is not unheard of in the mobile phone world, anyway
GPRS but not EDGE? (Score:5, Insightful)
That, by itself, makes it a non-starter.
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anyway, as I understand it, EDGE is a matter of firmware, not hardware, so I would hope GPRS + HSCD + EDGE will all be featured at s
One question... why? (Score:3, Insightful)
That's fine, if that's what the expectations really are; but the Slashdot submission makes it sound like the people behind the phone think they can take on the world. So please, seriously - tell us WHY anyone outside the "live open or die" community will care?
Re:One question... why? (Score:5, Insightful)
Because it is a really nice looking device and they look like they've already put together a great software stack for it, and have an expectation for a lot more interesting applications to be added prior to mass market launch. In short they expect to have mass market appeal because they think (and I have to agree with them on this) that they have a very nice smart phone. Try looking at the press page [openmoko.com] which has pictures of the device and screenshots of it. It looks good. Sure, it's not going to take over the world of mobile phones, but in the class of upper end smartphones (the sort of market the iPhone is pitched toward) it can certainly compete, and given the price, could do well.
Parent
The iPhone (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't really see why anyone would think there'd be any mass market appeal at all regarding this project.
[snip] So please, seriously - tell us WHY anyone outside the "live open or die" community will care?
Au Contraire, everyone cares -- because the wireless companies have such control that the current offerings in the phone industry really suck.
Witness the current excitement over the iPhone -- it's one step closer to actually doing something really useful with all the processing power of the phone
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No wifi :( (Score:2, Informative)
One of the greatest advantage of having an open phone is so that you can install a SIP phone on it and use it when there's a wifi connection available which is almost everywhere these days (at work, at home, lots of public places...). When there's an open phone that comes out with wifi int
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Aside from that, at offices, if you use too much bandwidth you could get fired; hotspots like at mcdonalds are limited in bandwidth, detrimental for sound quality, if you even get SIPphone services running (some hotspots even outright forbid the use of VOIP). That only leaves home, and I already have a phone there.
GSM and GPRS is much more prevalent here in Europe, almost blanket coverage.
Must have WiFi for this crowd. (Score:4, Informative)
Your average consumer might not need WiFi on their phone, but I think it is very important for the slashdot/techie/FLOSS crowd. The main reason is that we want to be able to bypass the cell network whenever possible to avoid paying. WiFi is free and plentiful for me at home, at work, and in many other places, whereas cellular bandwidth is slower and much more expensive. For syncing, downloading music, uploading pictures, and VoIP, WiFi is a requirement for my next phone.
Stop! Don't use LGPL software! (Score:2)
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apple got there first. it's called the jesuspho... er, iphone.
Re:better interface? (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
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Are you sure? (Score:2)
Re:Are you sure? (Score:4, Informative)
which I think Apple has the patent on.
Apple does not have any patents on the iphone. They have applied for about 300, but none have been granted yet. Regarding the multitouch interface, if you search the internet, you'll find that research has been going on in this area since the 1980's. At best, Apple might be granted a patent on the specific technology they've used to support multitouch in their touchscreen, but there are several other ways [nyu.edu] to accomplish the same thing, some of which are already [merl.com] available.
Parent
Display *under* keypad (Score:5, Interesting)
For one, why does the display always have to be 'on top of' the keypad? You have to hold the thing with both hands, or nearly drop the phone while reaching for the * 0 # keys. Instead, flip it around so the display is *below* the keypad. Go on,try it with your own phone, right now (just ignore for now that your keys will be upside down):
-- One-handed typing will be much easier, as you can hold onto the phone more firmly while typing. Also note how the 'thigh' of your thumb will not obscure the display.
-- Two-handed speed-texting will be much more 'private' because your thumb's thighs will keep your display hidden from everyone but you (the teens will love this!).
For another, who the hell decided that a phone's keypad should be the inverse of a standard numeric keypad??!? That's just plain daft! Not so long ago, some phones were one way, some the other; but then some moron decided that the One True Way was NOT the way of every single keyboard. What?!?! That makes no sense!
How about that? Who will be the first to implement that? And, will they be able to patent it, now that it's described here?
Parent
Small phones are no use... (Score:4, Interesting)
Small phones are no use if you want to do anything interesting with them. If you only want to phone your girlfriend, then fine, get a totty little device. But if you want to present or work with data it's useless. And increasingly as we move into location-aware, network connected devices there is a huge number of applications which just weren't possible before. I've moved from a Sony-Ericsson P910i to a Hewlett Packard IPAQ 6515 - the Sony-Ericson is bigger than OpenMoko, the IPAQ a lot bigger. Why? Because to run real applications you need more screen real estate (and the IPAQ has built-in GPS, which I need for the applications I'm building, but so does OpenMoko). 640x480 pixels is great news. Open API is even better news. I will definitely be playing with one of these, and soon.
Parent
What's wrong with it? (Score:2)
Re:Marketing ploy? (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
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MOD PARENT UP! Re:Slashvertisement! (Score:2)
there were hopes for the iPhone to be somewhat more open and for a full SDK to be available, but Steve Jobs nixed that one.
apart from reasonable success with the HTC Universal smartphone and other devices to which linux is being port
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What makes you think this thing will be running a Debian based system?
For an on-topic thought. I had seen this quite a while back and was excited about the potential, but had the faint scent of vaporware on it. The screen will be very nice, but more pixels = more battery draw...which is why most of the HTC devices are stuck at qvga instead of full vga. I wonder if they have some tricks up their sleeve to mitigate that factor.
An open platform will only get
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