Google, Microsoft Escalate Data Center Battle 190
miller60 writes "The race by Microsoft and Google to build next-generation data centers is intensifying. On Thursday Microsoft announced a $550 million San Antonio project, only to have Google confirm plans for a $600 million site in North Carolina. It appears Google may just be getting started, as it is apparently planning two more enormous data centers in South Carolina, which may cost another $950 million. These 'Death Star' data centers are emerging as a key assets in the competitive struggle between Microsoft and Google, which have both scaled up their spending (as previously discussed on Slashdot). Some pundits, like PBS' Robert X. Cringley, say the scope and cost of these projects reflect the immense scale of Google's ambitions."
Re:Hmm... It's Slashdot so... (Score:0, Interesting)
Re:Non-local computing (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:Non-local computing (Score:4, Interesting)
I don't like that myself, since it hurts reliability and autonomy in computing.
If all else is equal, a centralized approach is less reliable than a distributed approach.
But seldom is all else equal.
A distributed approach to software and information systems often has catastrophic failure as part of the mix. A well-designed central approach, with built-in redundancy and a qualified backup scheme can usually outperform the poorly administered "edge" systems run by end users.
And, in this space, the economies of scale rapidly factor in, making a better experience cheaper, as well. Sorry you don't trust the hosting providers, but it isn't always that way...
Re:Good in the short term (Score:5, Interesting)
From my point of view, there'll be no single winner, but technology will revert once again, and the term 'computer' will mean what it meant in the 60s and the 70s. Provided enough bandwidth, stability and solutions like roof-top server rooms - Google [or Microsoft, although it's hard for me to believe it] has good chances to build such a network with powerful data centers and relatively dumb clients. Again, the task is not easy, and there is 1001 reasons why, but defying laws of physics isn't among them, and the Almighty Buck will surely help solve all of them sooner or later.
Why? Google's desperately trying to diversify its income sources, why don't you suppose that they'll offer hosting services because they plan to?
Non-Paranoid computing (Score:2, Interesting)
ASP [wikipedia.org]
"Early signs of this beyond the obvious google applications that require web access, are aggressive attempts by Microsoft to "activate" everything online. You are going to increasingly need network connections to run standard applications."
Piracy [wikipedia.org]
"I don't like that myself, since it hurts reliability and autonomy in computing. "
Time-sharing [wikipedia.org]
"From a marketing perspective, there are huge benefits to centralized computing of course. Take gmail for instance, which lets google mine your private communications to gain insight into products and services which might interest you."
Non-Google sources of free E-Mail [fepg.net]
Ecological nightmare (Score:4, Interesting)
Since electricity is a continent-wide commodity you can guess whose electric bill will be going up as they buy up all the watts just so they can store every little detail about your life.
Re:As long as it doesn't violate GPL (Score:3, Interesting)
I don't beleive in server side applicatons yet (Score:2, Interesting)
My point is don't worry about applications running strictly from servers. Microsoft might try to tie your application on them to make sure you bought your program and keep track of your application(but who cares I use Linux)..Google ?? Something much more then email or something similar to ftp program for storing large amounts of data won't work. PLEASE UPLOAD ONLY FILES SMALLER THEN 5 MB AND MAKE SURE YOU INCLUDE AS MUCH VITAL INFORMATIONS ABOUT YOU AS POSSIBLE ??
First you need natural demand for this kind of applications and this demand doesn't exist yet because of low average bandwidth people have.
ON THE END THIS TREND EXISTS AND IT IS A THREAT TO PERSONAL FREEDOM. If you really want to stop this uncontrolled server side applications in the future AND THAT COULD AND WILL HAPPEN support applications like eyeOS that I recently installed or other open source server side applications that you could install on home servers and see and control your CODE.
Re:Non-local computing (Score:3, Interesting)
True, but a) you have no idea of knowing just how resilient their systems are, or how reliable their backup scheme is... until it fails, of course; b) online apps require an internet connection; and c) trust.
The need for an internet link to the central site is still a pretty significant failure point, especially if we're talking "end user" systems which are probably connected via a single phone or cable line.
Trust is probably the most significant problem. Not just that the company that stores your files will do so in a secure and discreet manner, but also that they'll behave in an ethical way. Once you become reliant on a service, they can start extorting you for access to your own documents. They can increase their fees, and refuse to release the documents to you until you pay them a severance fee. They can then release them in a secret proprietary format which only their systems can accurately interpret. All of these things you could sue for... but do you really want to be suing a monster corporation (or even a small, nasty one) to get your own documents back?
And what happens when your favourite do-no-evil corp is bought out or sells their central application services to a do-nothing-but-evil megacorp? Quickly grab a copy of all your stuff and then delete it? How do you know it's actually been deleted?
</doomsday>
Maybe (Score:2, Interesting)
It's time for MS to stop with all this data center crap and trying to compete with Google. MS can only compete with Google if they make search their priority at the expense of everything else they do. And whatever they do, they will *never* be as good at what Google does.
Time to retrench and think up ways of holding the desktop and office markets, besides pumping out crapware every few years that no one cares about, but has to eat anyway. If they have to eat it, why not make the meal pleasant and amazing? Household licensing for both Vista Business and Office 2007 for $95 per PC if bought in lots of 5 for the home user? I'd be all over the suite like white on rice, and so would most people.
And then MS could claim that their Always On OS/Productivity Suite doesn't require an internet connection to work, and that would be their selling point. No point in competing against Google on Google's terms.
Re:As long as it doesn't violate GPL (Score:5, Interesting)
I don't think it's a violation just as long as they keep it in house. Which means they also have to support it in house. Not everyone is willing to keep on retainer kernel developers for their employee desktop computers.
Google is changing the way people do business on the internet. They are also going to change the shape of the internet. Much of this very likely will follow any of a number of historical industrial patterns which eventually lead to severe regulations and a severe restriction of who is allowed to post information on the internet and what kind of information you are allowed to receive on the internet. It is not necessarily true that the regulators will dictate the limits of content but simply reinforce the idea of limiting content.
Examine the history of Television and Radio to see how they followed this path. I don't think anyone really considers the internet that much different. At least they can get it to fit the model. With the exception of the social webs like facebook, youtube, and myspace, most of the internet consists of content delivery and a large portion of that content (by some) is seen not as written words but media in forms of video/audio material. And with the highly publicized problems that these social networks are having (where everyone is a pedophile or worse) it's ripe for all the sheeple to cry out that they need the guberment to protect them from their neighbors. And "bang!". Just like that you have a completely "owned" environment where no one can actually do anything, everything costs money, and the sheeple are happy again.
Re:Non-local computing (Score:1, Interesting)
Nope. (Score:2, Interesting)
Forget it, as well as most of the other things you describe in you post. Microsoft couldn't do this even if they wanted; they've got shareholders to please. The office software market is oversaturated for a long time now, and only through artificial means is MS still able to extract money from it. They're not merely going to stop growing if they do not expand to new territories - they'll instantly drown, plain and stupid. It's very hard for the old dog to learn new tricks. They cannot possibly accommodate to a way of business without cheating on competitors, partners and customers, without spreading FUD, desecrating and locking down everything they touch... and THIS will be Microsoft's undoing.
Re:Location, Location, Location (Score:2, Interesting)
And increase the cost of bandwidth, electricity, and man-power.
South Carolina FTW (Score:2, Interesting)
Network Neutrality issues?? (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:As long as it doesn't violate GPL (Score:2, Interesting)
Why not? I mean, I haven't heard a reason why they could not release a modified version of the kernel. Do you have any links on this?
Or, could you speculate on the reason(s) why this is the case instead of blandly stating it as fact?
Incentives to Build (Score:5, Interesting)
San Antonio (Microsoft) [mysanantonio.com]: No property taxes for 10 years. A $5.2 mil grant from the CPS Energy economic development fund to pay for the electrical infrastructure to build the site.
South Carolina (Google) [valleywag.com]: No property taxes for 30 years (essentially, for the life of the site). The 150-acre site was granted to them, and the state government has granted about $5 mil [yahoo.com], too. Google has been incentivized to the tune of about $100 million.
Some of the structural construction will undoubtedly be done by locals. The technical work of building the data center (installing servers, wiring everything together) is probably outside of a local construction company's expertise. The real bulk of all those hundreds of millions of dollars goes to purchasing the actual computer equipment, none of which is local. A handful of the most-well-educated locals could be employees, but most employees will be transplanted. In less than 10 years, both sites will probably be obsolete (or, worse, axed as excess capacity). As the article on Google's site notes, the obscene incentives equate to "a $500,000 sweetener for each of the 200 jobs Google will create."
For half a million dollars, I'm sure the local economy could get more bang for its buck than just one Google employee. What exactly are these local governments getting in return for their obsequiousness and prostration?
Re:Does anyone else worry about hurricanes? (Score:1, Interesting)
Gorgeous country - some of the nicest east of the Mississippi. The culture shock will be pretty interesting, tho...
Re:As long as it doesn't violate GPL (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:As long as it doesn't violate GPL (Score:3, Interesting)