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Windows Operating Systems Software

Koreans Advised to "Avoid Vista" for Now 333

Posted by ScuttleMonkey
from the as-long-as-warcrack-still-works dept.
An anonymous reader writes "The Chosonilbo reports that several government ministries in South Korea are advising users not to install Windows Vista, at least until popular online services can be made compatible. The problem is that ActiveX is pervasive in the Korean webspace, employed by everyone from web games to online banking. Upgrading to Vista is expected to render many of these services unusable. Portions of the popular "Hangul" word processor, a major competitor to Office in that country, are also not functioning under Vista. The Ministry of Information is planning to publish compatibility information for popular websites, and urging users to carefully research the implications of upgrading."
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Koreans Advised to "Avoid Vista" for Now

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  • I used to think... (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mollymoo (202721) on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @05:32PM (#17744480) Journal
    I used to think Korea was a pretty technologically advanced place. Till I read this:
    ActiveX is pervasive in the Korean webspace, employed by everyone from web games to online banking
  • by Midnight Thunder (17205) on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @05:33PM (#17744494) Homepage Journal
    ActiveX is pervasive in the Korean webspace.
    They should move to something that work in linux, mac os, and windows


    Of course they should, but reality is not there. Some sites even insist on using VB, in place of Javascript - ugh! IMHO, the problem lies with uninformed web developers and managers who have never used anything other than MS-Windows and therefore the fact there are others OSs and web browsers is news to them.
  • by bitserf (756357) on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @05:56PM (#17744830)
    Ran into this with my partner, who is Korean. Her online banking uses incredibly invasive, poorly conceived and programmed software called nProtect. Which installs a bloody device driver to function. It actually blue screened Vista randomly. It does not install without Administrator level access to the machine (obviously). In addition, it required that you run IE7 in Administrator mode when attempting to log in. Also, many many websites did not function reliably with Vista and IE7, their ActiveX controls expecting to have administrator level access to the machine. Advanced technologically? Hardly. Just proprietary and locked in, and not very security conscious. The amount of times I had to click "Allow this website to install an ActiveX control" is just insane, I don't want to think of the amount of remote code execution vulnerabilities present on a machine with all these controls installed. They're pretty much conditioned to allow the website to install any old thing, really, since so many of their websites require it.
  • by The Bungi (221687) <thebungi@gmail.com> on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @06:00PM (#17744886) Homepage
    There's nothing wrong with ActiveX, other than the fact that it transfers the burden of trust entirely to the user, and leaves no middle ground there because it is a native executable that runs under your own credentials.

    On the other hand, it's a lot better than a Java applet. The internet "video revolution" that we're supposed to be in right now (for better or worse) is made possible by Flash, which would have been impossible to achieve with something like Java.

    If you know what you're doing, ActiveX is perfectly "safe". People who suffer nervous breakdowns when they hear the term usually are ignorant of how the technology works, or went through one of those nightmare scenarios where their kid/mom/wife clicked "Yes" when asked of they wanted to install that REALLY COOL SEARCH ASSISTANT or whatever.

    In retrospect of course the security problems have probably outweighed the benefits. The technology was a great idea - the implementation sucked.

  • Re:Only prudent. (Score:2, Interesting)

    by shawngarringer (906569) on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @06:01PM (#17744902)
    Huh, the activation hotline is open 24/7, I've called them in all hours of the day and night to activate windows. It took like 30 seconds.

    I don't see why this is such a major gripe of people.
  • Re:isn't everyone? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Flavio (12072) on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @06:12PM (#17745064)
    I think perhaps the truth lies somewhere in the middle. Vista will not be a complete flop, but it will sell well under what Microsoft expects.

    Legal copies of Vista will be bundled with most new computers, and this alone will make it a best seller. Also, many corporations will upgrade just for the sake of upgrading.

    I believe Microsoft has a very good idea of what's going to happen. They understand the business and marketing aspects of selling software better than anyone else.
  • by AnnuitCoeptis (1049058) on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @06:17PM (#17745120)
    Haha, you really do not get it. ActiveX and Microsoft are darlings there. South Korean economy is ridden by miriads of PC parts makers and the whole nation depends on their elecronics export to US and EU. Microsoft feeds them, so they obey. If Linux was ever able to offer robust driver layer to their hardware they may consider to switch, but they are not even considering given the braindead software layer that surrounds the Linux kernel, giving you the second tier wrapper shit? No way, Direct(x) way by Microsoft (the triumphant).
  • by MightyMait (787428) on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @06:21PM (#17745170) Journal
    Some sites even insist on using VB, in place of Javascript - ugh!

    Don't I know it!!! I assume you mean client-side VBScript, which only works in IE. Server-side VBScript (in ASP, or VB.NET in ASP.NET) works just fine, since plain HTML is sent to the browser.

    Recently, while troubleshooting an error in one of our customer's server-side code, I came across a web-form with a client-side VBScript validator. Underscoring the fact that the "developer" didn't understand what was going on, there was a disclaimer on the page that the form only works on "Internet Explorer and other browsers that support ASP". Of course, ASP had nothing to do with the incompatibility, it was the client-side VBScript.

    It almost goes without saying, but the code had FrontPage written all over it!!
  • Not Vista's fault (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Sloppy (14984) on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @06:34PM (#17745284) Homepage Journal
    The problem is that Vista doesn't play well with a software program called Active-X that is widely used in Korean Internet sites.

    No, the problem is that incompetently created websites use delicate nonportable nonstandard proprietary software that is only interoperative with one single obsolete platform.

    Don't blame Vista; blame people who aren't responsible, experienced, or forward-looking enough to see why complying with standards is so necessary.

    Now let's see how people will fix their glaring mistake. Will they "fix" it by repeating it (i.e. rewriting ActiveX controls to be compatible with Vista, so that they can get paid to screw their customers again in 5 years when the next version of Windows comes out) or will they fix it by removing the irresponsible dependencies?

  • Re:isn't everyone? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by that this is not und (1026860) on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @06:40PM (#17745358)
    Not hardly. I won't ever install even XP here. And I am one of the people who pre-registered to pre-order Windows 2000. W2K is good enough, and the kind of software that I need to run on Windoze will continue to run on it. All my more interesting machines now run something else.

    And, no, I am not a 'software luddite.' The people who are clinging to the same old/new buggy crap from Microsoft are the luddites, who are scared to move on. Microsoft is over, man. It still runs on Business machines, but businesses also still buy Swingline Staplers, Xerox copiers, and other tired, tedious things for utility purposes.
  • by element609 (303265) on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @06:48PM (#17745450) Homepage
    I wonder if this has anything to do with the large amount of spam originating from South Korea? For my less internationally inclined clients, I sometimes suggested using the DNSBL cn-kr.blackholes.us to help fight some of the unwanted spam.

    I spent a month at a S. Korean University, and there was a lot of junk installed on the public computers on campus. Every evening they rebooted, and and started with a clean image each morning - so IE was clogged after a day's worth of surfing. Needless to say, I rebooted before using one.
  • Re:Only prudent. (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @07:11PM (#17745780)
    Next time, copy the activation database file "wpa.dbl" from your System32 directory onto a floppy or thumbdrive. After the install, copy it back to System32 while in safe mode. The product is now activated for the same hardware combination that originally generated the database file.

    MS even tells you about this, so aside from being the ones to implement the scheme, they're not entirely to blame for you having to reactivate every single time.
  • by Phil John (576633) <phil AT webstarsltd DOT com> on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @07:28PM (#17745962)

    It may just be a word, but it's a word that has negative connotations for a lot of informed people. Just recently Acer admitted to there being a glaring security hole in an ActiveX control installed on their computers that could have allowed malicious websites to download and execute rootkits, trojans etc.

    Let us not forget that you are also locking out anyone not on Windows and not running Internet Explorer. Gone are the days when we can put "This site works best in Internet Explorer" on a site and expect people to think that's O.K.

  • by rssrss (686344) on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @07:35PM (#17746034)
    "I'm actually a MS user and I don't have a rabid irrational hatred of them like many around here."

    Au contraire, mon ami. Many, if not most, of us are M$ users and we have developed a thoroughly rational hatred of the company, based on our experiences of bloated, bug ridden, excessively expensive software, their constant undermining of standards, and their elevation of their opportunities to make money above user convenience. (My favorite was the Win98SE installer that asked if you wanted on-line services, and installed them anyway if you checked no.)
  • Best Windoze Evar! (Score:3, Interesting)

    by twitter (104583) on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @08:06PM (#17746362) Homepage Journal

    Vista will be Microsoft's best seller ever. You wait and see.

    I don't have to wait - the Vista upsell has already generated record interest in my desktop Linux class. As the bad reviews continue to pour out, Vista is going to sell the competition like no Windoze before.

  • by mollymoo (202721) on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @09:48PM (#17747100) Journal
    Just another user that fears a word.

    Try web developer, former Microsoft Certified Professional (I might still be one; I know my NT4 stuff has expired but I don't know about the 2k and SQL stuff - I don't do MS-specific these days) and former developer at a Microsoft Certified Solutions Developer. I didn't do much ActiveX, mostly web stuff so cross-platform was the order of the day, but I saw what the guys building intranets did, worked with a good range of MS technology and read a whole load of MSDN junk. This was all few years ago now, but judging by press reports things haven't changed much. I'm no ActiveX expert, but I'm not your average user either.

    ActiveX is (perhaps was, now MS seem to be losing interest) a prety cool technology. Combined with other Microsoft technologies like Exchange and Office it lets you build proper distributed, interactive applications that do cool stuff with the data you already have. For intranets, an all-Microsoft shop lets you do stuff you can only do in a clumsy way with other offerings. ActiveX is one of the tools to do that cool stuff. But the intranet is where is should stay. It's not standards-compliant, it's not cross-platform and it's so full of security holes that using it outside of a corporate intranet is barking mad.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday January 24, 2007 @09:56PM (#17747138)
    More Direct Link [unfix.net]
  • by SgtChaireBourne (457691) on Thursday January 25, 2007 @04:50AM (#17749280) Homepage

    Israel has a pretty high birth rate for an industrialized nation and they are unfortunately also beholden to microsoft. Lots of israeli websites are IE only

    That and Chairman Gates called Sharon on the carpet a few years back. The press was actively excluded from all aspects of the meeting and from Gates during his visit. However, the Israeli government started a fast back-pedal on non-MS technologies right after, so it's probably easy to guess at least one topic of discussion.

    Now I actively dislike Sharon, his policies and his goals, but that won't stop me from saying that he was a very strong, shrewd, effective and powerful politician. Therefore I surmise that he got something of perceived benefit out of the deal, assuming no damage to his cognitive abilities. But what was it? Not that it has to be a benefit for or even be non-harmful to Israel itself, no politician of his calibre is going to give in without getting at least as much back either for himself or his politics.

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