Koreans Advised to "Avoid Vista" for Now 333
An anonymous reader writes "The Chosonilbo reports that several government ministries in South Korea are advising users not to install Windows Vista, at least until popular online services can be made compatible. The problem is that ActiveX is pervasive in the Korean webspace, employed by everyone from web games to online banking. Upgrading to Vista is expected to render many of these services unusable. Portions of the popular "Hangul" word processor, a major competitor to Office in that country, are also not functioning under Vista. The Ministry of Information is planning to publish compatibility information for popular websites, and urging users to carefully research the implications of upgrading."
I used to think... (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:why even use ActiveX? (Score:3, Interesting)
They should move to something that work in linux, mac os, and windows
Of course they should, but reality is not there. Some sites even insist on using VB, in place of Javascript - ugh! IMHO, the problem lies with uninformed web developers and managers who have never used anything other than MS-Windows and therefore the fact there are others OSs and web browsers is news to them.
Korea is stuck using Microsoft (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:I used to think... (Score:2, Interesting)
On the other hand, it's a lot better than a Java applet. The internet "video revolution" that we're supposed to be in right now (for better or worse) is made possible by Flash, which would have been impossible to achieve with something like Java.
If you know what you're doing, ActiveX is perfectly "safe". People who suffer nervous breakdowns when they hear the term usually are ignorant of how the technology works, or went through one of those nightmare scenarios where their kid/mom/wife clicked "Yes" when asked of they wanted to install that REALLY COOL SEARCH ASSISTANT or whatever.
In retrospect of course the security problems have probably outweighed the benefits. The technology was a great idea - the implementation sucked.
Re:Only prudent. (Score:2, Interesting)
I don't see why this is such a major gripe of people.
Re:isn't everyone? (Score:5, Interesting)
Legal copies of Vista will be bundled with most new computers, and this alone will make it a best seller. Also, many corporations will upgrade just for the sake of upgrading.
I believe Microsoft has a very good idea of what's going to happen. They understand the business and marketing aspects of selling software better than anyone else.
Re:why even use ActiveX? (Score:2, Interesting)
Client-Side VBScript. (Score:4, Interesting)
Don't I know it!!! I assume you mean client-side VBScript, which only works in IE. Server-side VBScript (in ASP, or VB.NET in ASP.NET) works just fine, since plain HTML is sent to the browser.
Recently, while troubleshooting an error in one of our customer's server-side code, I came across a web-form with a client-side VBScript validator. Underscoring the fact that the "developer" didn't understand what was going on, there was a disclaimer on the page that the form only works on "Internet Explorer and other browsers that support ASP". Of course, ASP had nothing to do with the incompatibility, it was the client-side VBScript.
It almost goes without saying, but the code had FrontPage written all over it!!
Not Vista's fault (Score:5, Interesting)
No, the problem is that incompetently created websites use delicate nonportable nonstandard proprietary software that is only interoperative with one single obsolete platform.
Don't blame Vista; blame people who aren't responsible, experienced, or forward-looking enough to see why complying with standards is so necessary.
Now let's see how people will fix their glaring mistake. Will they "fix" it by repeating it (i.e. rewriting ActiveX controls to be compatible with Vista, so that they can get paid to screw their customers again in 5 years when the next version of Windows comes out) or will they fix it by removing the irresponsible dependencies?
Re:isn't everyone? (Score:2, Interesting)
And, no, I am not a 'software luddite.' The people who are clinging to the same old/new buggy crap from Microsoft are the luddites, who are scared to move on. Microsoft is over, man. It still runs on Business machines, but businesses also still buy Swingline Staplers, Xerox copiers, and other tired, tedious things for utility purposes.
Re:Korea is stuck using Microsoft (Score:4, Interesting)
I spent a month at a S. Korean University, and there was a lot of junk installed on the public computers on campus. Every evening they rebooted, and and started with a clean image each morning - so IE was clogged after a day's worth of surfing. Needless to say, I rebooted before using one.
Re:Only prudent. (Score:1, Interesting)
MS even tells you about this, so aside from being the ones to implement the scheme, they're not entirely to blame for you having to reactivate every single time.
Re:I used to think... (Score:4, Interesting)
It may just be a word, but it's a word that has negative connotations for a lot of informed people. Just recently Acer admitted to there being a glaring security hole in an ActiveX control installed on their computers that could have allowed malicious websites to download and execute rootkits, trojans etc.
Let us not forget that you are also locking out anyone not on Windows and not running Internet Explorer. Gone are the days when we can put "This site works best in Internet Explorer" on a site and expect people to think that's O.K.
Hatred Not Irrational. (Score:3, Interesting)
Au contraire, mon ami. Many, if not most, of us are M$ users and we have developed a thoroughly rational hatred of the company, based on our experiences of bloated, bug ridden, excessively expensive software, their constant undermining of standards, and their elevation of their opportunities to make money above user convenience. (My favorite was the Win98SE installer that asked if you wanted on-line services, and installed them anyway if you checked no.)
Best Windoze Evar! (Score:3, Interesting)
Vista will be Microsoft's best seller ever. You wait and see.
I don't have to wait - the Vista upsell has already generated record interest in my desktop Linux class. As the bad reviews continue to pour out, Vista is going to sell the competition like no Windoze before.
Re:I used to think... (Score:3, Interesting)
Try web developer, former Microsoft Certified Professional (I might still be one; I know my NT4 stuff has expired but I don't know about the 2k and SQL stuff - I don't do MS-specific these days) and former developer at a Microsoft Certified Solutions Developer. I didn't do much ActiveX, mostly web stuff so cross-platform was the order of the day, but I saw what the guys building intranets did, worked with a good range of MS technology and read a whole load of MSDN junk. This was all few years ago now, but judging by press reports things haven't changed much. I'm no ActiveX expert, but I'm not your average user either.
ActiveX is (perhaps was, now MS seem to be losing interest) a prety cool technology. Combined with other Microsoft technologies like Exchange and Office it lets you build proper distributed, interactive applications that do cool stuff with the data you already have. For intranets, an all-Microsoft shop lets you do stuff you can only do in a clumsy way with other offerings. ActiveX is one of the tools to do that cool stuff. But the intranet is where is should stay. It's not standards-compliant, it's not cross-platform and it's so full of security holes that using it outside of a corporate intranet is barking mad.
Re:why even use ActiveX? (Score:1, Interesting)
Re:why even use ActiveX? (Score:2, Interesting)
That and Chairman Gates called Sharon on the carpet a few years back. The press was actively excluded from all aspects of the meeting and from Gates during his visit. However, the Israeli government started a fast back-pedal on non-MS technologies right after, so it's probably easy to guess at least one topic of discussion.
Now I actively dislike Sharon, his policies and his goals, but that won't stop me from saying that he was a very strong, shrewd, effective and powerful politician. Therefore I surmise that he got something of perceived benefit out of the deal, assuming no damage to his cognitive abilities. But what was it? Not that it has to be a benefit for or even be non-harmful to Israel itself, no politician of his calibre is going to give in without getting at least as much back either for himself or his politics.