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Viacom Demands YouTube Remove Videos 225

AlHunt writes "According to the folks at PCWorld Viacom has publicly scolded YouTube for continuing to host throngs of Viacom videos without permission. They are demanding that over 100,000 of its clips be removed from the site. This includes content from Comedy Central (no more Daily Show), MTV, Nick at Nite, Nickelodeon, Paramount Pictures, and VH1. YouTube has acknowledged receiving a DMCA request from Viacom, and the article notes what a dire precedent this could be if Google can't reach an agreement with Viacom and its fellow IP holders."
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Viacom Demands YouTube Remove Videos

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  • by CrazyJim1 ( 809850 ) on Friday February 02, 2007 @11:36PM (#17869488) Journal
    You need to make deals with copywright holders to show/sell their product online. The hard part is negotiating deals with everyone, not just having a site that supports video.
    • You don't. (Score:5, Insightful)

      by BasilBrush ( 643681 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @12:03AM (#17869700)
      Actually you don't. The DMCA says that the user that upload the videos are the ones who may be breaching copyright. Online Service Providers such as YouTube have safe harbour from copyright liability provided that they remove content if and when they receive a take down notice from the copyright holder. What YouTube are doing is perfectly legal as it is.

      Reaching agreement with the big media companies might make reduce YouTube's workload and reduce news stories such as this one. But it's absolutely not necessary.
      • Re:You don't. (Score:3, Insightful)

        by jkabbe ( 631234 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @12:05AM (#17869720)
        But, honestly - what does the DMCA have to do with this anyway? This is a plain old copyright case (no measures taken to secure content on tv).
      • by Penguinoflight ( 517245 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @09:58AM (#17872774) Journal
        That's simple copyright law. The DMCA says that whoever hosts or links to a infringing material is also breaking the law. That's why everyone got hyped about it being illegal according to the first amendment and such.

        Youtube was simply banning these videos before, but I think they realized they weren't going to keep their audience long by doing that. It's probably in their best interest to just make a deal with viacom.
  • Bad for Viacom (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ZachPruckowski ( 918562 ) <zachary.pruckowski@gmail.com> on Friday February 02, 2007 @11:38PM (#17869516)
    Honestly, the reason I watch the Colbert Report is Youtube. If I hadn't seen Colbert at the White House Correspondents' Dinner, I might not watch the show. I mean, they should complain about full episodes, but if there's 3 minutes of Colbert or Stewart on there, it's just advertising to watch those shows.
    • Re:Bad for Viacom (Score:3, Informative)

      by eln ( 21727 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @12:44AM (#17870002)
      Viacom does not object to their content being on YouTube as such. What they don't agree with is that YouTube gets ad revenue from their videos, and Viacom doesn't get a cut. YouTube (Google) has already negotiated deals to pay a portion of ad revenue to other content providers, such as CBS. Viacom, however, feels (probably rightly so) that their content provides far more traffic to YouTube than the other providers that have deals, and so they want a sweeter deal than the others got. Until they have that deal, they will continue to make YouTube take down their content.

      It's not so much that Viacom hates their stuff being on the Internet, it's that they don't like other people posting their stuff on the Internet without getting a piece of the pie themselves.
      • Re:Bad for Viacom (Score:4, Interesting)

        by modecx ( 130548 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @02:39AM (#17870718)
        But they don't stop to think: "Hey, someone liked this part of this program enough to go through the effort of editing our clip, and uploading the clip to let other people watch. His time wasn't free, and he deemed that our product had enough value that other people should also enjoy it. We aught to let those other people watch it, so they will be more inclined to watch our show live when they see it on their cable box, and those eyes will see our ads, too!"

        I mean, it's one thing to upload a whole program to these sites, those videos should, and undoubtedly will be taken down as they are uploaded... A smart company, however, would KILL for advertising like this. It's free, it takes no effort beyond the initial investment whatsoever, and it's highly effective because it targets a niche market which is proven to enjoy your product. If anything, Viacom's stockholders aught to be lynching the management for not figuring out a way to make this phenomenon *more effective*, to establish more mindshare, to draw in more viewers, to up the ratings, and to make more money in the end!
      • by rifter ( 147452 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @06:18AM (#17871546) Homepage

        Viacom does not object to their content being on YouTube as such. What they don't agree with is that YouTube gets ad revenue from their videos, and Viacom doesn't get a cut. YouTube (Google) has already negotiated deals to pay a portion of ad revenue to other content providers, such as CBS. Viacom, however, feels (probably rightly so) that their content provides far more traffic to YouTube than the other providers that have deals, and so they want a sweeter deal than the others got. Until they have that deal, they will continue to make YouTube take down their content.

        It's not so much that Viacom hates their stuff being on the Internet, it's that they don't like other people posting their stuff on the Internet without getting a piece of the pie themselves.

        This does make a certain amount of sense. After all Colbert frequently refers to YouTube and has even directed his audience there to look at parts of his show, like the infamous chinese caricature voice bit that was only initially (and accidentally) broadcast to certain markets. He even covers YouTube stuff on his show (as have a number of "real" news shows. And as I have said before YouTube does a better job of hosting Viacom's content than Viacom does. If they were smart they would negotiate a deal with YouTube for some of the revenue and post the shows themselves, or else make their site better and easier to use like YouTube has.

    • by Oligonicella ( 659917 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @09:07AM (#17872408)
      No, it's not just advertising, it's infringement. Your opinion is totally irrelevant in this, as is mine. The opinion of the copyright owner is the only one that matters when it comes to distribution.
  • by TubeSteak ( 669689 ) on Friday February 02, 2007 @11:39PM (#17869524) Journal
    ...part of me wants to say "fuck 'em"
    because someone will re-upload those clips whether Viacom likes it or not.

    OTOH, I understand why GooTube doesn't want to piss off the big players in the media industry & will eventually compromise in one way or another.
    • by vistic ( 556838 ) * on Saturday February 03, 2007 @02:53AM (#17870784)
      Really the only way these sites that allow user uploads to not ever violate any copyrights is to just shut down completely.

      Of course that sucks and the alternative sites suck even more.

      But if YouTube shut down that would also be the end of a lot of cool non-copyrighted stuff... there's lots of things I think to find, so I search on YouTube and lo and behold, there it is.

      I think the major corporations should just shut up, for the good of the people.

      • by rifter ( 147452 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @06:27AM (#17871590) Homepage

        But if YouTube shut down that would also be the end of a lot of cool non-copyrighted stuff... there's lots of things I think to find, so I search on YouTube and lo and behold, there it is.

        That's a good point. YouTube has done a lot of good, particularly for democratizing the process of content publishing (like for movies, music videos, etc). They even have a special account for amateur filmmakers that allows you to upload much longer clips. There was a story on one of the conventional news channels about how law enforcement is using YouTube to catch criminals, both by uploading clips with a plea for people who recognize the perpetrators to step forward, and by checking out other clips that depict crimes either uploaded by the perpetrators, victims, or bystanders. People have also used YouTube to protest and publish news that the major media refuse to report on and footage of stuff like police brutality.

        YouTube is an important part of our society and represents the future of the communication revolution. They are just the beginning of a new era in which more and more power is vested in ordinary folk and more information is readily available rather than being kept in the darkness. This is precisely why small minds with big pocketbooks and vast power are afraid of its potential. It's not all silly videos of puppets singing dirty songs and naked WoW elves dancing. There's a lot of good stuff on YouTube.

      • by Oligonicella ( 659917 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @09:11AM (#17872444)
        True, they cannot prevent uploading, but they could provide copyright owners with the names of the uploaders. This would allow them to direct their attentions to the actual culprits.

        Do you also think the little guy should just "shut up for the good" when his content is illegally uploaded?
  • Viacom has rights (Score:4, Insightful)

    by alshithead ( 981606 ) * on Friday February 02, 2007 @11:44PM (#17869562)
    Viacom is just saying, "It's our content, give us what we want or you can't host it...pay to play suckers!!!". Fault them if you wish but they are well within their rights. Viacom is operating from a position of having the law behind them. Because of that, they get to dictate terms. If they don't like the offer they can tell YouTube to fuck off and die. Maybe the folks uploading the content are ultimately at fault for the copyright violations but YouTube has the responsibility for removing that material at Viacom's demand. Would you want your content out there for free if you could otherwise get paid for it?
    • Re:Viacom has rights (Score:5, Interesting)

      by Sancho ( 17056 ) * on Saturday February 03, 2007 @12:12AM (#17869786) Homepage
      Absolutely, however GooTube is pretty good about removing material when asked to do so by copyright holders. The problem is that it keeps getting re-uploaded, and the DMCA doesn't (as far as I know) allow for blanket removal. That is, each instance of infringement must be included in the DMCA takedown request. So Viacom has to constantly monitor the site and send out the requests, and someone at Youtube has to take them down, one by one. Viacom can't say, "Please remove all Daily Show content," or, "Please remove all of our content." It just doesn't work that way.

      This is one reason that negotiating a deal would be beneficial to both parties. There are many more users willing to upload content than Viacom employees working to search it out, or Youtube employees capable of removing it. The money lost in fighting the infringement is probably significant.

      That said, as long as it continues to be (financially) worth it, Youtube will continue to host videos and will simply have to deal with the takedown notices. And Viacom (and other copyright holders) will have to continue to monitor these sites for infringing content.
      • by alshithead ( 981606 ) * on Saturday February 03, 2007 @12:17AM (#17869830)
        "Absolutely, however GooTube is pretty good about removing material when asked to do so by copyright holders. The problem is that it keeps getting re-uploaded, and the DMCA doesn't (as far as I know) allow for blanket removal. That is, each instance of infringement must be included in the DMCA takedown request. So Viacom has to constantly monitor the site and send out the requests, and someone at Youtube has to take them down, one by one."

        I agree completely. While Viacom has the right to ask for the material to be removed...it's their unfortunate (or not) responsibility to make the requests. If it bothers them enough, they'll sit back down and the table and compromise. However, the ball is in their court, it's their choice to compromise or just be dicks.
    • by slughead ( 592713 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @12:33AM (#17869934) Homepage Journal
      Viacom is just saying, "It's our content, give us what we want or you can't host it...pay to play suckers!!!". Fault them if you wish but they are well within their rights.

      Blasphemy! Any media company that sues to protect its IP must be stopped!

      Because if we get rid of viacom, then we wont get sued for stealing their stuff! ... wait, but they wont make any more stuff... uh OK, I got it! we'll make it a law that they HAVE to make good quality content FOR FREE and not do a damn thing about it when people upload copies online!

      And somehow, we'll convince ourselves that it was in viacom's best interest, because we saw the clips and then watched the shows on TV... even if that's BS and P2P is still the largest distributor of online music...
      • by alshithead ( 981606 ) * on Saturday February 03, 2007 @12:49AM (#17870034)
        "Blasphemy! Any media company that sues to protect its IP must be stopped!
        Because if we get rid of viacom, then we wont get sued for stealing their stuff! ... wait, but they wont make any more stuff... uh OK, I got it! we'll make it a law that they HAVE to make good quality content FOR FREE and not do a damn thing about it when people upload copies online!
        And somehow, we'll convince ourselves that it was in viacom's best interest, because we saw the clips and then watched the shows on TV... even if that's BS and P2P is still the largest distributor of online music..."

        Slughead and shithead, great band name! ...thanks dude/ette. I think we're singing the same song. Let's copyright it and sue the fuckers who steal it! Thanks for your insightful irony and sarcasm. :)
    • by zakezuke ( 229119 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @12:55AM (#17870068)
      Would you want your content out there for free if you could otherwise get paid for it?

      That depends... if I happened to release a music video then by all means I'd want that sucker on youtube. If I happened to have an interest in a television program or a movie and someone wants to take a 3min blip-vert and post it on youtube, I'd be pleased as punch. The only reason I saw the new Pink Panther movie was because I saw the "english lesson" [youtube.com] on youtube.

      The big theme in this thread is "free advertising". It's rather way VCRs were tolerated and in many cases encouraged in the 1980s. It was a cheap way for a person to buld up a video library, and usually there was an into from the approperate station, such as HBO or Showtime. How many people got cable just so they could watch what their friends taped, or better still tape things beyond antenna quality.

      I'm not saying Viacom isn't within their rights. I am saying in all likelyhood the increased viewship from youtube blip-verts results in higher commercial value of AV products.

      • by alshithead ( 981606 ) * on Saturday February 03, 2007 @01:36AM (#17870284)
        "Would you want your content out there for free if you could otherwise get paid for it?

        That depends... if I happened to release a music video then by all means I'd want that sucker on youtube."

        We're mostly on the same page but I think you and others are missing a crucial point I'm trying to make..."if you could OTHERWISE get paid for it". Yeah, free publicity is GREAT!!! But, we're talking about Viacom. They have plenty of publicity and a big following already. If my small, minor, mostly unnoticed content was getting play I'd be happy as shit. Viacom is huge already. They are a business and expect their content to bring in revenue. They have to protect their content. If they don't then their revenue declines and so do they. The stockholders are ones they are trying to protect...and, some of us might even own some of their stock.
        • by zakezuke ( 229119 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @01:53AM (#17870390)
          We're mostly on the same page but I think you and others are missing a crucial point I'm trying to make..."if you could OTHERWISE get paid for it". Yeah, free publicity is GREAT!!! But, we're talking about Viacom. They have plenty of publicity and a big following already. If my small, minor, mostly unnoticed content was getting play I'd be happy as shit. Viacom is huge already. They are a business and expect their content to bring in revenue. They have to protect their content. If they don't then their revenue declines and so do they. The stockholders are ones they are trying to protect...and, some of us might even own some of their stock.

          Viacom is huge. So was Royal Crown (RC) cola, but they didn't *really* make it to the 80s cola wars. While they had a huge market share at one point in history, they decided rather than spending money promoting their product they AFAIK saved their money and put it into their product. They lost their marketshare and were bought out.

          I'm empathetic as to protecting the shareholder's interests. But as big as viacom is, their income depends on viewership. Viewership depends on awareness, and to promote awareness, they do employ advertising. The nice thing about free advertising is the fact that it's "free", otherwise you'd have to pay for it. Even if most of the commercials for the dailyshow are done on viacom owned stations, that's airtime which could have been sold to someone else.

          You are right, it boils down to what's in the best interest of the shareholders. The real question is does the increased viewership of the youtube blip-verts of the dailyshow increase the value of the show enough, or is there more money to be made by either charging for it or showing it with your own adverts.

          • by alshithead ( 981606 ) * on Saturday February 03, 2007 @02:04AM (#17870480)
            "But as big as viacom is, their income depends on viewership. Viewership depends on awareness, and to promote awareness, they do employ advertising."

                I'm talking about their content; entire shows, movies, etc. being out there for free. No advertising revenue! "Hey, we were number one on YouTube! Yeah, well your commercials were cut out of the show/movie...but, we were number one!" There might be a slight market because of product placement in the content but that won't cut it with the companies they rely on for advertising revenue. Where is the revenue for Viacom and their sponsors? Free publicity does not cut it for a company that has already made their place in the world. They don't need the publicity or their shit wouldn't be so popular on YouTube in the first place.
            • by zakezuke ( 229119 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @04:25AM (#17871168)
              I'm talking about their content; entire shows, movies, etc. being out there for free. No advertising revenue! "Hey, we were number one on YouTube! Yeah, well your commercials were cut out of the show/movie...but, we were number one!"

              And i'm talking about blip-verts, short 3min segments, like the "Colbert Report" from the daily show. I'm sure there are whole shows available on youtube, not that i've seen any. I have seen short segments which from time to time resulted me taking the time to watch a show, rent/buy a vid.

              There might be a slight market because of product placement in the content but that won't cut it with the companies they rely on for advertising revenue. Where is the revenue for Viacom and their sponsors? Free publicity does not cut it for a company that has already made their place in the world.

              If your logic was true, then Coca-Cola and Pepsi wouldn't need to advertise. Oscar Meyer wouldn't need the weiner-mobile, and Hormel Foods wouldn't need a spam-mobile [spam.com]. But they still do. Why? Keeps demand up... otherwise a competitor's advertising might might make something think "perhaps i'll give this drink a shot" or "this tastes good, I think I might buy some"

              If your logic was also true, then Viacom already has achieved the maximium market share, meaning no room for growth, and only a fool would invest in them. But in terms of cable stations, I believe the "USA network" (NBC/universal) is #1 in terms of viewers. And it just so happens I got into Monk by watching short clips on Youtube.

              http://www.answers.com/topic/viacom [answers.com]
              http://www.answers.com/topic/nbc-universal-inc [answers.com]
              http://www.answers.com/topic/fox-entertainment-gro up-inc [answers.com]
              http://www.answers.com/topic/time-warner-inc [answers.com]

              Viacom has their place in the world, but they are no Time/Warner, closer to NBC-Universal which just so happens to have a deal with Youtube [youtube.com] If they hope to reach the level of NBC-universal, it might be wise to consider youtube as a vehicel for promoting their media.

              To put into perspective, google's net income is about 1/10th that of viacom.
              http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-google1feb01 ,1,1371599.story?coll=la-headlines-business [latimes.com]

              We are not talking about Viacom it self, but rather the content they provide. Everyone for example knows "Kraft" or "safeway", but you do not know every product they sell. Your average American, for example, doesn't know what Vegemite(tm) is though it is a Kraft product. Viacom does spend much airtime and advertising dollars to promote programing. Something like the Dailyshow isn't watched by everyone, pretty popular for a cable show, about 1.5 million viewers nightly. How many more people do you think would watch it if they caught brief blip-verts sent to them in their inbox by friends. How much more likely would it be for something to enter into foreign markets based on this free advertising. Your clearly a hard sell on this idea, I can only speak from experence.

              If I was a shareholder of any media company, I would be concerned if Viacom didn't offer blip-verts like NBC does, and hell i'd drop them like a rock if they didn't adapt. Just like the VCR served to increase popularity of cable by providing a signal good enough to tape.

              1) Person with VCR tapes HBO
              2) Person shares tape
              3) Person gets HBO, watches and tapes.
              The effect is virual and was vital to the groth of the cable industry.

              Viacom needs to be reminded that their present growth was due in part to viral pirate marketing.

              They don't n
  • Dear Viacom (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Call Me Black Cloud ( 616282 ) on Friday February 02, 2007 @11:45PM (#17869578)
    Our business model is to host content made by others and become fabulously wealthy. If you don't allow us to freely show the material you've paid for our bottom line will be negatively impacted. Please reconsider, for at least as long as it takes to sell our Google stock.

    Sincerely,

    YouTube
    • Re:Dear Viacom (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday February 02, 2007 @11:55PM (#17869658)
      Dear Youtube,

      Our business model is to provide content which is trivially easy for people to duplicate and distribute, but to sue anyone who actually does that. You are next on our hit list.

      Plan A was to take control of all the hardware in the world away from its rightful owners, but that didn't work out so well. This has left us with no alternative but to sue you and everyone else.

      Sincerely,

      Viacom
      • by BrynM ( 217883 ) * on Saturday February 03, 2007 @05:55AM (#17871462) Homepage Journal
        To all Affected Parties,

        Have at it. We'll be right by your side when you (WILL!) need us.

        Gleefully awaiting our retainer,
        The Lawyers
      • by kjart ( 941720 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @08:03AM (#17872006)

        Our business model is to provide content which is trivially easy for people to duplicate and distribute, but to sue anyone who actually does that. You are next on our hit list.

        Actually, their business model is basically the same as youtube - make money via advertisements while distributing content (and both mediums are trivially easy to duplicate to boot). The only difference here is that Viacom made the content. Should they be pissed? Sure, it's their right since it's their content.

        Also, did you miss the part where Viacom has already requested that specific content be removed? Court does not appear to be their first choice.

      • by Oligonicella ( 659917 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @09:21AM (#17872510)
        So then, you would favor a return to a non-electronic medium? No? Then provide legal coverage for the content producers and quit the lame cannard that the media dictates whether the owner has rights or not.

        It is unbecoming to whine because an access to 'free' illegal material is made to dry up.
  • by no reason to be here ( 218628 ) on Friday February 02, 2007 @11:46PM (#17869580) Homepage
    fucking it up for the rest of us since 1971 (or 2005, depending on how you want to judge these things).
  • Rutube? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Sax Maniac ( 88550 ) on Friday February 02, 2007 @11:47PM (#17869586) Homepage Journal
    If allofmp3 is a guide, maybe we need rutube.ru. Eh, dot com. Eh, dot whatever.
  • by dexomn ( 147950 ) on Friday February 02, 2007 @11:48PM (#17869600)
    ...Cagematch to the death! Two shall enter, one will leave!
  • by kelv ( 305876 ) on Friday February 02, 2007 @11:50PM (#17869626)
    With about 10 lines of perl you can rip down all of The Daily Show clips from the akamai servers
  • by AndroidCat ( 229562 ) on Friday February 02, 2007 @11:51PM (#17869628) Homepage
    I wonder if the complaint will ever show up in the Chilling Effects [chillingeffects.org] clearinghouse list?
  • by ConfusedSelfHating ( 1000521 ) on Friday February 02, 2007 @11:57PM (#17869672)

    This just means that you have to find and download a high quality version of the show that you want to watch. You can still get it for free, but you have to work a very little for it. It will only stop piracy committed by the very lazy or very stupid.

    This move helps keep YouTube pure. Only people who take a picture of themselves everyday for years will be permitted to post content. Until the RIAA/MPAA copyrights their faces. You thought that we would only get mandatory full body coverings with a totalitarian Islamic government. Wait until you have to wear a burqa to avoid copyright violations.

  • by MsGeek ( 162936 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @12:03AM (#17869704) Homepage Journal
    Lots of content disappeared yesterday. A lot of it was Viacom stuff. I'm fully expecting more of my favorites to come up with "content removed" notices.

    Viacom has been known for its actions in the past. For example: yanking Ren & Stimpy from its creators because Viacom wanted more control. This is par for the course with these folks.
  • by dgun ( 1056422 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @12:27AM (#17869902) Homepage
    Short clips of their programs are just free advertising and add to the popularity of the shows. I can understand wanting to eliminate whole episodes, however.
  • by popo ( 107611 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @12:35AM (#17869948) Homepage

    Is unmanaged user uploads.

    Did anyone not see a potential problem with this?

  • The ugly truth (Score:5, Insightful)

    by edwardpickman ( 965122 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @12:43AM (#17869998)
    Viacom owns the material and they can do what they want with it. Youtube didn't pay to produce it so they have no right to benefit financially from it. They may not charge to watch the videos but they use them to create value for the company. Viacom may actually want to leave the clips on Youtube but I'm guessing their lawyers advised that it sets a dangerous president. If they allow the clips they may loose control of the shows themselves. In some ways this is up to the court system and where they draw the line. Viacom can provide them with clips but it gets dicey when some one other than Viacom posts the clips without Viacom's permission. Whoever puts the money into producing the material should control it. If you make something it belongs to you unless you give or sell the rights to some one else. That isn't copyright that's been true for roughly twelve thousands years or more.
    • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03, 2007 @01:14AM (#17870188)
      it sets a dangerous president

      So true. We already have a stupid President, don't want a dangerous one now, do we? Oh wait...
    • by kurt555gs ( 309278 ) <kurt555gs@@@ovi...com> on Saturday February 03, 2007 @01:22AM (#17870218) Homepage
      Viacom is getting greedy. Fair use allows for clips, etc. Viacom could bitch if the entire show was uploaded, but copyright is not ownership, it is just exclusive right to publish for a limited time ( well, sorry Mickey ) with the ability of others to use excerpts, and make parodies.

      There is no such thing as IP OWNERSHIP.

      I hope Google fights this, but I am sure they will just settle with the whiners.

      Cheers

      • by Oligonicella ( 659917 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @09:42AM (#17872682)
        "There is no such thing as IP OWNERSHIP."

        Ah, the lament of the "I want it free" crowd.

        "Fair use allows for clips, etc. Viacom could bitch if the entire show was uploaded, but copyright is not ownership, it is just exclusive right to publish for a limited time ( well, sorry Mickey ) with the ability of others to use excerpts, and make parodies."

        Well, lookie look, you just shot YouTube in the ass. YouTube ignores the content creater's exclusive right to publish. Those excerpts are entire segments, not snippets and YouTube is not hosting parodies or referential content, just the raw content.
    • by Lehk228 ( 705449 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @01:24AM (#17870224) Journal
      youtube must take down the material when presented with a DMCA takedown notice, not whenever some lawyer from viacom gets his panties in a bunch
    • by Geof ( 153857 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @02:03AM (#17870470) Homepage

      Youtube didn't pay to produce it so they have no right to benefit financially from it.

      You know, that simply doesn't reflect how the economy works. If I put up a cinema, there's no reason, moral, legal or otherwise, why you shouldn't open up a restaurant next door and make a profit from the customers I draw. True, you have no positive right to do so, but there's no restriction on such activity either. Do you want to live in a world in which companies and individuals can control all positive externalities of their actions? As Lemley [ssrn.com] explains, monopolies are the best way to achieve that kind of control. The pernicious idea that copyright confers an exclusive right to profits (both direct and indirect) is at variance with almost all other market activity.

      Whoever puts the money into producing the material should control it. If you make something it belongs to you unless you give or sell the rights to some one else. That isn't copyright that's been true for roughly twelve thousands years or more.

      Where on earth does this come from? Market economies and the labor theory of value are a modern phenomena. Most societies in history have been organized quite differently, with vastly different conceptions of property and ownership. (Your claim preceeds the earliest writing by thousands of years!)

      If you ask me, Viacom's action is a negotiating tactic. They know they benefit from the distribution of their programing. But they also know there's money to be made here, so they want as big a cut as possible. Both sides are in a contest to determine how to divide up the pie - which really comes down to a question of relative strength and weakness, not right and wrong.

  • by SQLz ( 564901 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @12:45AM (#17870008) Homepage Journal
    Viacomm is too f*ing stupid to realize they get a massive ratings boost from You Tube. Both Colbert and Stewart not only regularly mention the site, they obviously use it for show content.
    • by mcg1969 ( 237263 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @01:33AM (#17870270)
      But they also know that the value that YouTube is creating with their service is gigantic. That is: sure, YouTube is sending Viacom some free business---but YouTube has the potential to make far more than that themselves.

      Put another way, YouTube has far more to lose here than Viacom does.

      So Viacom is in fact quite smart to push hard for some sort of revenue stream from YouTube for their content.
  • by troll -1 ( 956834 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @01:01AM (#17870118)
    Viacom's action could establish a precedent and have serious consequences for YouTube ...

    There may be consequences for youtube but perhaps the proverbial cat is out of the figurative bag. The real problem here is that the Internet is such an effective and efficient distribution system. I find myself watching more and more news content on youtube simply because it's there when I want it. I don't have to read a program guide or program a TV. I don't even have to own a TV.

    If what happened after Napster [wikipedia.org] (as a file-sharing service) was shut-down is any indication, the forces of supply and demand combined with the ubiquity and amorphous characteristics of the Internet are unstoppable, even if youtube were shut down tomorrow, you could expect to see the Daily Show popping up more prevalently on P2P, BitTorrent, or some obscure Russian site.

    And if the failure of all those DMCA P2P lawsuits to stop file-sharing from reaching an all-time high is any indication of the world in which we live, people are going to get the content one way or another, no matter what the copyright holders or the law says. All moral judgments aside, that just a fact based in reality.
    • by drix ( 4602 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @01:35AM (#17870278) Homepage
      The Daily Show is already on BitTorrent within about 2 hours of its East Coast airing. It takes me about a half hour to download, it's a digital satellite rip and when I play it on my television it actually looks better than cable since I don't have digital cable. Ditto the Colbert Report. I'm a cable subscriber but I don't have TiVo and not having to stay up late to watch the episodes, and/or being able to take them on the road with me, makes all the difference. I don't know if what I'm doing is illegal but it's insanely easy and convenient. I certainly don't feel like it's immoral. I have a hard time seeing Viacom or any other corporation being able to put a stop this sort of thing. It certainly isn't working for the music industry. Or should I say didn't.
    • by Frosty Piss ( 770223 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @02:01AM (#17870444)

      I find myself watching more and more news content on youtube simply because it's there when I want it. I don't have to read a program guide or program a TV.

      No, you find yourself watching more and more news content on youtube simply because you have no life.

  • by supersat ( 639745 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @01:08AM (#17870150)
    It looks like Viacom automated their DMCA complaints, and included several videos in their DMCA notifications that they clearly don't hold the copyright to. One of the affected users also writes a Harvard law blog, and posted about it [harvard.edu].
  • by theurge14 ( 820596 ) * on Saturday February 03, 2007 @01:32AM (#17870268)
    NBC has been using YouTube to their advantage to drum up interest in their shows. Recent clips that come to mind are Lazy Sunday and D*** In a Box from SNL:

    http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=NBC [youtube.com]

    Viacom should be taking notes.
    • by BobSutan ( 467781 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @11:58AM (#17873576)
      CBS did this as well. If it wasn't for YouTube I'd never known about Jericho. Its got an interesting premise and is worth checking out despite the imperfections in the show's execution. Looking back at the show's post-catastrophe storyline, it strikes me as a contemporary version of Battlestar Galactica (which is by far the best show on TV these days).
  • by TheDarkener ( 198348 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @01:38AM (#17870296) Homepage
    ...and it's going to happen, because, well.. we always have.

    Find a new, more neutral video transport method.

    Could someone make a YT web "site" based on the Bittorrent protocol?
  • I'm pretty sure it's them I can blame carpel tunnel on.
  • by siddesu ( 698447 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @05:16AM (#17871314)
    The real problem is not the fact that many companies want their copyrights protected within the bounds of the law. That is okay, and even welcome as long as the goal of copyright -- rewarding creativity and fostering more of it -- is achieved by the law.

    Rather, the problem is the abuse of the copyright laws (and legislature in general) that is done by some of the corporate copyright holders. The laws are constantly extended for longer and longer period in many countries, often by pressure from countries like the US, where bribing legislature is a legit business; this happens in violation of the reason for which the said laws exist. This is, of course, only possible because politicians are corrupt and largely unchecked, and succumb to bribes, in this case, from the media and entertainment companies.

    The said companies have generated enormous wealth via the copyright monopoly, and have strong interest to use this wealth to do two things -- the first is to extend their monopoly power over existing works, and the second is to create bareers to entry for new players. That unfortunately includes players with new business models and technologies.

    So, until there is strong enough pressure on politicos from all of us for fairer laws regarding copyright so that the damned bribed assholes that vote the laws get a clue and take action, the laws will get more draconian, and the abuses more egregious. Just look at Sweden and their pirate party.
  • by Kinetix303 ( 471831 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @10:15AM (#17872882) Homepage
    One of my posted videos, "Cheap Beer in Montréal" was removed based on a Viacom complaint yesterday. The problem with the situation is that I shot the video myself and the only people in it are my friends. There is no Viacom content in it whatsoever. In effect, they have stifled my right to have others access material which holds my own copyright.

    What method did Viacom use to specify which videos violate their copyright? Is there no penalty for false accusation? Is it possible that Viacom targetted videos that are not their own in order to harass and intimidate YouTube? Is it possible that they did this in order to overwhelm he copyright complaints department of YouTube?

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