Become a fan of Slashdot on Facebook

 



Forgot your password?
typodupeerror
×
Software Microsoft Media Media (Apple) Operating Systems Windows

Vista - iPod Killer? 557

JMB wrote us with a dire warning, as reported by the San Jose Mercury News. Apple is cautioning its Windows-using iTunes customers to steer clear of Vista until the next iTunes update. The reason for this is a bit puzzling. Apparently, if you try to 'safely remove' your iPod from a Vista-installed PC, there's a chance you may corrupt the little music player. They also claim that songs may not play, and contacts may not sync with the device. Apple went so far as to release a detailed support document on the subject, which assures users that a new Vista-compatible version of the software will be available in a few weeks. Is this just some very creative FUD? If it is not who do you think is 'at fault' here, Microsoft or Apple?
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.

Vista - iPod Killer?

Comments Filter:
  • Suits suits suits. (Score:5, Interesting)

    by GodInHell ( 258915 ) * on Saturday February 03, 2007 @03:16PM (#17875142) Homepage
    Suits are to blame either way.. for thinking that their job was to tie a software app to one OS or the other.

    If it turns out that MS is keeping true to form from past abuses - using its control over the OS to submerge and destroy the oposition (see netscape) then Apple should probably start digging for evidence to back a differnet kind of suit right now. This kind of deliberate destruction of property that just happens to be manufactured by the opposition company (OS v Os, and now MP3 player v. MP3 player) is text-book anti-trust case material.

    -GiH
  • by omicronish ( 750174 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @03:33PM (#17875332)

    Considering it worked well enough in XP, I'm wondering exactly what they managed to screw up with USB handling...

    I doubt it's USB handling; it's likely UAC and how everyone is a restricted user by default (even Administrators until they elevate). I got into this weird situation in XP where I was able to play and purchase music in iTunes under a restricted account until I mistakenly ran it under an administrator account one day. I was never able to purchase music again without logging on as administrator (it would fail to download the song).

    Furthermore, I can't imagine them intentionally crippling iTunes. Apple has ~70-80% of the market of music devices. It would be suicide for Vista to intentionally block the software of the most popular music device out there. Regular users would blame Vista regardless of the underlying technical reasons.

  • by D3m0n0fTh3Fall ( 1022795 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @03:36PM (#17875366)
    The release version has been all over the net for months, do you honestly think apple hadn't been testing with it?
  • by DinZy ( 513280 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @03:38PM (#17875386)
    Vista has been in its finished form for months. There is no excuse for Apple not having iTunes ready. They are clearly just being coy here so they can maybe sell a few systems or something. On a side note. I have been using XP x64 since the start of last year. Apple released a version of quicktime that was broken on that system and since they bundled it with iTunes it actually broke that as well and they removed any link to the older working version. I updated to that and lost the ability to use my iPod and any software that used quicktime. It was yet another case of Apple failing to test their products thoroughly.
  • by SierraPete ( 834755 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @03:38PM (#17875388)
    Without accusing the crowd of being anything less than an ethical [insert gagging sounds here], this might be history repeating itself for competitive gain. With the Windows 95 upgrade came the "feature" that included the disabling of AOL software. Didn't M$ introduce M$N Network with Windows 95? So didn't M$ introduce the Zune this past Christmas season? Maybe I'm getting cynical in my old age, but given the track history of M$ (to include the now infamous Halloween documents which were recently acknowledged as authentic in court), a sabotaging of the iPod is not outside the realm of possible.
  • Safari and hotmail (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Scrameustache ( 459504 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @03:39PM (#17875394) Homepage Journal
    When Safari came out, I downloaded version 1.0 the very first day, and used it to go to hotmail, check out my messages, download attachement, everything worked fine.

    Three days later, I could no longer download attachments... My version of Safari hadn't changed, but somehow, after three days, it didn't work as well as it did. Hmmm...

    In a less anecdotal way, you might remember Microsoft "borking" Opera [opera.com], or the infamous Microsoft hack that screwed with Netscape back in the 90s.
    If we're lucky, "leaked" memos will show up in a few years detailing how Microsoft purposefully decided to screw with their competition for their new zune.
  • Winamp USB (Score:4, Interesting)

    by haijak ( 573586 ) * on Saturday February 03, 2007 @03:46PM (#17875476) Homepage

    If I have Winamp running and put in a USB CF reader with photos on it, I get a prompt about Winamp managing this possible media player. Of course I decline and copy off my photos, then remove the card. As soon as I remove the card, Winamp crashes.

    So while I'm sure using iTunes will probably be fine, The USB media device management has some issues that ether Microsoft or the software makers need to handle. I would bet that is what Apple is talking about.

  • Re:If only... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Quixotic Raindrop ( 443129 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @04:09PM (#17875652) Journal
    It's funny you mention that ... because Microsoft has, in the past, done exactly this sort of thing before, and if you read Groklaw, you'll note that this very issue is a major factor in a lawsuit currently being litigated. Microsoft is well-known for providing different builds of Windows to different developers, and for changing system calls, hooks, APIs, and other such things at the last minute and only telling certain third-party developers, if any.

    I don't doubt that Apple might have some dirty hands here, if only because they seek to embarrass Microsoft at any opportunity, and may have deliberately withheld some updates specifically to cause the most possible bad publicity about Vista, but more likely than not Apple was given one set of APIs WRT the safe removal of iPods, only to have Microsoft change them without warning.
  • Re:It's apples fault (Score:3, Interesting)

    by malfunct ( 120790 ) * on Saturday February 03, 2007 @04:15PM (#17875712) Homepage
    With visual studio and a few other small apps running I regularily thrash the hard disk with memory paging under vista. That said I don't think its so horrible for the OS to use more ram if it gives features that are worth the cost (What, like $200?). That said I haven't been convinced that I get those features yet but we will see. I am lucky enough that by accident I already had 2 gig of ram in all the pc's that I own and it is only my work machines that only have 1gig.
  • by dl_zero ( 933977 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @04:15PM (#17875718)
    It has nothing to do with the iPod (unfortunately). The problem is the way vista sometimes handles removable mass storage. The other day, I had a 250GB external HD and when I used it with Vista, it corrupted the whole partition table. I was able to recover the data because only the partitions were deleted, but either way, its a flaw in Vista
  • I suspect Microsoft's "security" model is to blame as usual.

    Instread of letting applications that deal with untrusted documents take responsibility for sandboxing them, Microsoft rejected sandboxing in he '90s as too inconvenient, and having too great a performance cost. Instead, they assume that applications will use COM objects (ActiveX, Office documents, etcetera) and build the whole security model around assigning "security zones" to COM objects. THEN (a) assuming all applications are compromised, and (b) setting up traps to catch out compromised applications.

    So every time they hike security, they end up breaking some software or some hardware that was doing things that look fishy to Microsoft. They broke Palm two or three times, so it's no surprised Apple's falling afoul of their stupid design.

    A design that, by the way, has caused users immensely more inconvenience than any sandbox possibly could.
  • Not necessarily. (Score:3, Interesting)

    by argent ( 18001 ) <peter@slashdot . ... t a r o nga.com> on Saturday February 03, 2007 @05:06PM (#17876118) Homepage Journal
    How long has Vista BETAs been available to developers? Why was this not discovered until vista launched?

    Here's a handful of likely reasons:
    • Microsoft's "security zones" are based on a continually tweaked ad-hoc set of rules. They can break software from one beta to the next.
    • How many users are having these problems? What hardware? Apple may simly not have run into the problem.
    • How long has Vista been running on Macs? Apple's had to get THAT working as well.
    • Does Apple even have upgrading from XP to Vista running under Boot Camp?


    I suppose that makes sense for a small time company like Nortel, but not for a shop like Apple.

    Nortel's market cap is around $10B, Apple's is around $6B.
  • by LodCrappo ( 705968 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @05:16PM (#17876208)

    How can Apple have released a fix if Vista was at fault? Hmm?

    You apparently know nothing, and I mean nothing about how software works in the Windows world. Software companies constantly have to "fix" their software because of bugs or changes in the underlying Windows systems they rely upon. This is simply the way things are done in the Windows world.

  • Re:It's apples fault (Score:3, Interesting)

    by malfunct ( 120790 ) * on Saturday February 03, 2007 @05:47PM (#17876422) Homepage
    I probably shouldn't address this, but if you notice I said 2gb of ram is the magic number I've found for Vista which most modern motherboards support fairly well. 4gb of ram, so far as I know, would only be well supported in a 64bit version of Vista which I have never personally tried.
  • Re:I dunno.. (Score:4, Interesting)

    by mstone ( 8523 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @05:49PM (#17876438)
    Let's assume Apple did know about this issue months ago. The list of problems seems to suggest some kind of mismatch between the iTunes code to sync data with the device and the Vista device i/o code.

    If the solution to those problems involves architectural changes.. replacing XP/ME-specific device i/o code with Vista-specific device i/o code.. it makes sense for Apple to wait and release a Vista-specific version shortly after Vista itself goes into public use. it doesn't make sense for them to load a bunch of Vista code into the versions of iTunes that were running on XP or ME just so the program would probably survive the OS upgrade seamlessly.

    It also makes sense for Apple to wait a few weeks after Vista goes public before releasing its Vista-specific version of iTunes, just to see if any edge-cases crop up when umpty-zillion users start upgrading upmty-zillion different XP and ME configurations. Give it a couple of weeks to watch the radar for bugs, another two weeks to solve them, and one more for QA testing, and you have a good Vista-specific version of iTunes coming out five weeks after Vista itself hits the shelves of Wal-Mart.

    That isn't bad, as far as timing goes. There's always some ramp-up in new product adoption, and Vista is hardly the 'must upgrade as soon as I can get my hands on a copy' product of the 21st century. Even most of the early adopters will still be waiting to upgrade by the time Apple's Vista-specific version of iTunes is released.

    IMO, the real story here is that Vista's iPod compatability is a big enough issue to be getting attention at all.

  • by jimbolaya ( 526861 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @05:59PM (#17876524) Homepage

    You think that people will "ditch" windows for their iPod? Are you that disconnected from reality? The alternative is a Mac that is literally running on identical hardware but costs twice as much. You think people will ditch their 2 year-old $1000 dell for a new $2000 mac that doesn't offer them anything new?

    Speaking of disconnected from reality, you really believe that an Apple today costs twice as much as a comparable Dell did two years ago? Aside from the Mac Pros, most Macs today sell for well below $2,000. The 24" inch iMac is an exception. But what you're telling me is that two years ago, you could have bought a Dell with a 24" LCD, 1GB RAM, 2.16GHz Core 2 Duo, DVD burner, and 128MB video card, for $1,000? That must be what you're saying, because you claim the $2,000 Mac couldn't give you anything new.

    I challenge you to configure a comparable Dell (or HP, etc.) today for $1,000 (Apple's are twice the price, remember?). Hell, I challenge you to find one for $2,000. I came up with a price of $2,308 at Dell's site. Granted, that was with a 256MB video card, which would bring the iMac up to $2,124. Far from being twice the price, the Apple is nearly $200 cheaper.

  • Re:It's apples fault (Score:4, Interesting)

    by jbrader ( 697703 ) <stillnotpynchon@gmail.com> on Saturday February 03, 2007 @06:04PM (#17876576)
    Microsoft had more money than many of the worlds countries combined and a gigantic army of developers and it still took them the better part of a decade to ship Vista. Sometimes software can be tough.
  • by Overly Critical Guy ( 663429 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @06:07PM (#17876598)
    How conveniently people forget that Microsoft's own Zune player app wasn't Vista compatible either. If Microsoft couldn't support their own OS with these "stable apis" of the last six months that you refer to, how can you expect Apple to?
  • by malfunct ( 120790 ) * on Saturday February 03, 2007 @06:15PM (#17876664) Homepage
    Zune client version 1.2 was fully compatible with Vista and released near the beginning of January.
  • by The_DoubleU ( 603071 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @06:24PM (#17876758)
    You can have quicktime without iTunes. [apple.com]
    You can't have iTunes without quicktime though.
  • by malfunct ( 120790 ) * on Saturday February 03, 2007 @07:04PM (#17877036) Homepage
    My point was that if the software had be started at the same time time as the zune software it could have released in January as well and been ready for vista. Instead Apple waits until release to send out a bulliten saying how awful Vista is for thier hardware. I agree it takes a while for new software to get written but you don't start writing the fixes the day the OS releases to the mass market when you could have started 6 months before and been completely ready for it.
  • Re:It's apples fault (Score:1, Interesting)

    by Anonymous Coward on Saturday February 03, 2007 @07:08PM (#17877054)
    That's weird cuz I have a vista install in vmware with only 400megs of ram allocated to it and it runs just fine. It runs suprisingly smooth nd doesn't appear to be continuously swapping.
  • precisely (Score:4, Interesting)

    by goldcd ( 587052 ) on Saturday February 03, 2007 @11:06PM (#17878330) Homepage
    I upgraded to x64 vista - and it is indeed lovely. All my hardware was detected and drivers updated without me having to deal with any of it (well OK, I did have to download an Audigy driver, but that's it).
    Apart from iTunes - all my Audible stuff now fails the DRM check. Just to clarify, all the audiobooks I bought for my iPod now no longer play and whilst I have a subscription for two more books this month (£15 I've paid) I can't listen to them.
    All iTunes has to do is to decode MP3, M4A, M4P and AA files on my Computer - and map them to my ipod. The fact I can no longer do this either indicates that Apple are inept, or (taking into account today's press releases) they're holding me hostage to make a point.
  • Re:Who to blame? (Score:2, Interesting)

    by mgiuca ( 1040724 ) on Sunday February 04, 2007 @01:45AM (#17879118)
    Haha, great story.

    It reminds me of a thing I used to do a little more recently with Diablo II. The game would only write updates to your character file every 5 minutes. So whenever I died, I would immediately alt+tab, make a copy of my character file, and quit the game. Then I'd copy my backup over the newly-flushed (dead) character file, to revert to a version pre-death.

    Actually I had a massive folder of all my character versions dating way back .... of course if I was playing it nowadays I'd put them all under revision control :)
  • Re:It's apples fault (Score:3, Interesting)

    by jacksonj04 ( 800021 ) <nick@nickjackson.me> on Sunday February 04, 2007 @06:57AM (#17880150) Homepage
    Whilst Vista doesn't use massive quantities of RAM for its own devious schemes (Absolutely speaking, relative to XP it's quite a bit) it still brays hell out of my hard disks when doing anything more than browsing the web. Strange thing is, the Business release worked much better. Then the Tuesday before commercial release a load of updates were made available and suddenly my system is running slow.

    It's an evil plot!
  • by Maxo-Texas ( 864189 ) on Sunday February 04, 2007 @03:00PM (#17882368)
    It was well known in the 80's.

    Not surprised a bit to see it updated for the 00's.

"Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." -- Albert Einstein

Working...