US Group Wants Canada Blacklisted Over Piracy

An anonymous reader writes "Following up on an earlier story, the IIAA wants to add Canada to a blacklist of the worst intellectual property offenders. A powerful coalition of U.S. software, movie and music producers is urging the Bush administration to put Canada on an infamous blacklist of intellectual property villains, alongside China, Russia and Belize. 'Canada's chronic failure to modernize its copyright regime has made it a global hub for bootleg movies, pirated software and tiny microchips that allow video-game users to bypass copyright protections', the International Intellectual Property Alliance complains in a submission to the U.S. government."

tiny microchips

[QuantumG]

As opposed to those huge microchips you get from Intel.

Re:tiny microchips

[PhrostyMcByte]

They could be comparing it to this [com.com].

Cue the music

[esampson]

Oh, sure.
 

Blame Canada

Re:Cue the music

[antarctican]

I just fail to understand why we should care (from a Canadian point of view). Why should we let the Americans control our internal policy?

I'm offended and frankly would be extremely angry if Canada bowed to this pressure.

Re:Cue the music

[Telvin_3d]

Well then, make sure your MP knows that you do not support the actions of the current heritage minister Bev Oda. As the person who sets policy for copyright in Canada she has been cught accepting large sums of money ('campaign funding') from American entertainment companies. At the same time, she has refused to meet with almost any groups who represent actual Canadaian artists. Michael Geist has some great reporting on the issue. Check out http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1564/ [michaelgeist.ca] and http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/1529/ [michaelgeist.ca] to start, but there is much more there.

Re:

[Beached]

It is illegal for Canadian political parties and their members to accept donations greater than a $1000CDN. Also, they must be from individuals. Yes, you could try and get a whole family to each donate a grand each but that is still on average $4200(two parents and two point two children). And that has been done. But nothing I would call huge.

Still, she has been very pro Big Media in her speeches.

Re:Cue the music

[Hemogoblin]

Dr. Geist has a blog entry on the IIPA report here [michaelgeist.ca].

Heres a good bit: "The U.S. approach is quite clearly one of "do what I say, not what I do" (fair use is good for the U.S., but no one else), advising country after country that it does not meet international TPM standards (perhaps it is the U.S. that is not meeting emerging international standards), and criticizing national attempts to improve education or culture through exceptions or funding programs. Moreover, it is very clear that the U.S. lobby groups are never satisfied as even those countries that have ratified the WIPO treaties or entered into detailed free trade agreements with the U.S. that include IP provisions still find themselves criticized for not doing enough.

Canadians should not be deceived into thinking that our laws are failing to meet an international standard, no matter what U.S. lobby groups or the Globe and Mail say. Rather, Canadians should know that our approach - and the criticism that it inevitably brings from the U.S. - places us in very good company."

Re:Cue the music

[ShieldW0lf]

It wasn't that long ago people would have thought you were crazy if you suggested Canada would make more money not selling cattle to the US.

Now we have meat packing plants of our own, and we can sell frozen steak internationally with all the associated markup.

Why the hell are we selling our oil?

Re:

[Ctrl-Z]

Everything from Timbits to MapleLeaf is American (US) owned, if only through parent companies.

No [wikipedia.org] and no [wikipedia.org].

Re:

[Ash Vince]

Everything from Timbits to MapleLeaf is American (US) owned, if only through parent companies.
No and no.


Just followed both the links to wikipedia you posted and then followed wikipedia's links at the bottom of each page. this is what I discovered:

Tim Hortons

This is traded on the NYSE and Toronto Stock Exchange (http://www.timhortons.com/en/pdfs/en_media_kit.pd f) so is probably owned mostly by US investment houses as the original poster said. Regardless of who owns the shares though, trading on a foriegn st

Re:

[Hamfist]

Even though we were mostly British at the time, I think that any threts from our neighbours are more likely to result in history repeating itself. [wikipedia.org]

Interesting that the War of 1812 was initiated by the US outraged at an affront to their liberties, yet this is about the US impressing it's dominance.. A bit of a reversal in 200 years I think.

Re:Cue the music

[narrowhouse]

Really that is exactly the point, some industries would like as many countries as possible to have almost identical copyright and patent policies. Lately those industries have had the most luck influencing U.S. law so they have decided to make those laws the template. It isn't the "Americans" that are pushing this, it is a collection of huge corporations that are trying to keep from having to fight the same court battles over and over. If they can convince the U.S. government to pressure other countries to bring their laws "in line" with the U.S. laws they make their own lives a lot easier. If Canada keeps it's own laws it will be a force these industries have to deal with directly, if Canada bows to pressure they fade into the background, another "me too" country they never have to work with. Australia should think about that too.

Re:Cue the music

[ScrewMaster]

More to the point from my perspective as an American, most of the companies involved in this are not American, or even based in the United States. Personally, the very idea of our political leaders accepting bribes^H^H^H^H^H^Hcompaign contributions from foreign interests in exchange for modifications to our legal system smacks of high treason. Of course, that doesn't make this any less the responsibility of the citizenry of this country to fix ... as soon as we figure out how. Voting doesn't seem to work so well anymore.

Re:Cue the music

[Original Replica]

Voting doesn't seem to work so well anymore.

We could throw the complete inventory of a franchise music store into Boston Harbor. and maybe a few politicians as well.

Re:Cue the music

[cpt kangarooski]

That would be a pain in the ass. There aren't any that close to the harbor. There used to be a Sam Goody in Quincy Market, but I think they're gone now.

Re:Cue the music

[shadowbearer]

Throwing the politicians in would be even worse - the transport costs alone would be daunting. Still, as a nation at war, we must accept any sacrifice.

SB

Re:Cue the music

[stygian]

Throwing the politicians in....

From the environment's point-of-view, this might not be such a good idea.

Re:Cue the music

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

The transport costs would be negligible. Politicians, being full of hot air, can float independently over land or sea. They require a bit of a push to get them out over the water, but then one well-placed shot each to deflate them would drop them in.

Re:

[skogula]

Wouldn't throwing politicians into the harbor violate international laws? "Permanantly polluting the harbour"

This could be a worse ecological disaster than the Exxon Valdiez

Re:

[renegadesx]

Its too late for Australia. Problem is John Howard is so far up Bush's ass he wont be able to taste anything but shit till his 80'th birthday (next week I think) He has been pushing so hard to pretty much make Australia another US state, which sucks because so many Aussies hate America, but our ruler loves those yanks and wants us to be just like them

Re:Cue the music

[ScrewMaster]

Do they hate America, do they hate that for which America has traditionally stood, or do they just hate George W. Bush and his cronies? Just in case it's news to you, a lot of us Americans aren't all that enamored of GWB and Co.

In any event, saying "we hate America" means you're doing one awful lot of hating. I've known some Australians that were complete jackasses as well ... but I don't say "I hate Australia". I just express distaste for those particular idiots.

Nobody can really hate America

[Iloinen Lohikrme]

I don't think that nobody with a rational mind can really hate America or Americans. Yes it's true that American government does from time to time very fucked up things. Yes it's true that most Americans seem more or less ignorant or straight stupid from the eyes of the rest of the world. Even so, that really doesn't make justifiable to hate America or Americans. When you look at other nations and previous superpowers, they have done and do same things and at times have seemed to the rest of the world as bu

Re:Cue the music

[Wylfing]

The funny thing is, this is exactly the type of stereotyping that Americans are often criticized for. I was talking about a month ago with a very worldly fellow who is from France originally but has lived in something like 8 countries. I was quite surprised that he had the following unshakable beliefs:

1. 100% of Americans love GWB
2. 100% of Americans love Fox News
3. 100% of Americans know absolutely nothing about geography, politics, or history
4. American life is exactly like what you see in Hollywood movies and American TV shows

When I tried to bait him with "French people wear berets, play tiny accordions, and never bathe" he didn't understand what I was doing. "See," he said, "Americans are completely ignorant about other cultures." Righto.

Re:Cue the music

[Robber Baron]

John Howard is so far up Bush's ass he wont be able to taste anything but shit till his 80'th birthday

Actually no, it should be "he's so far up Bush's ass he can see Tony Blair's feet".

Re:

[kimba]

If we don't, by and large, like what our PM is doing - and has been doing for over a decade - then why do we still vote for him? The people continue to vote him and his party in so I'd say most Aussies therefore agree with his policies. If not, the Aussie people have only the Aussie people to blame. Just like the American people must take the blame for the actions of their leader.

You half answered your own question. In the US, you can vote for the president -- largely for how they handle matters of foreign policy and trade -- as distinct from how you elect representatives to parliament. In Australia, there is no distinction, and the Prime Minister is appointed by the party that has majority representation. Unless you happen to live in the Prime Minister's electorate, you can not vote for or against him.

In Australia, I'd say the majority supported the majority parties' policies on d

Re:

[gregmac]

In the US, you can vote for the president -- largely for how they handle matters of foreign policy and trade -- as distinct from how you elect representatives to parliament. In Australia, there is no distinction, and the Prime Minister is appointed by the party that has majority representation. Unless you happen to live in the Prime Minister's electorate, you can not vote for or against him.

Canada has the same issue, but even if the would-be Prime Minister is not elected, there is the option that a junior member of that party will step down, and a by-election will be held in that riding to get the Prime Minister a seat in the House.

Re:

[SenseiLeNoir]

We have the same situation here in Britain.

This is the "first past the post, winner takes all" voting system we have, which together with our Monarchy.

Legally, the way it works is that, it is our Monarch (the queen) who appoints her government, and HER prime minister. As a Constitutional Monarch she is bound to represent the views of her citizens, who elect a Party to represent their views. The parties themselves elect a "leader" to lead the party and suggest roles for other members.

The final say though is

Re:Cue the music

[VJ42]

Things like the whole "Freedom Fries" incident, may have been cute over in America, but was treated with disbelief over here in the UK. We in the UK, have decades of non-serious Antagonism with the French (though deep down, we do respect them). However, we would never as a whole do that.

Absolutely right, to be precise only the English have the right to insult the French (The Welsh, Scots and Irish are all Celts like the French). No one else is allowed to do it for two reasons; fistly only the English spent the most part of the last millennium at war with the French. Secondly, as the Americans showed, no one else can do it properly.

The Germans would have a good case, but the last time we let them, they took it a bit to far. By having to prove that invasion is not an acceptable form of insult, we also gained sole rights to insult the Germans over the war.

In contrast the only people allowed to insult the English (along with the French. The Germans are still barred from the whole thing) are the ex-colonies. Unfortunately, this includes most of the rest of the world...

Re:

[Quantam]

I just fail to understand why we should care (from a Canadian point of view). Why should we let the Americans control our internal policy?

One word: nukes. The US has them; you don't.

Re:

[S.O.B.]

We've hidden a nuclear missile silo under very Tim Horton's built in the last 10 years. Get us angry and we'll bombard you with a billion radioactive Timbits.

Re:Cue the music

[Jerry]

And more to the point: Why does the American government allow corporations to dictate foreign policy?

Re:Cue the music

[Tablizer]

Why does the American government allow corporations to dictate foreign policy?

1. Because they can.

2. Because they can buy the best lobbyists.

3. Because voters who don't pay attention let them.
 

Re:

[RexRhino]

Since about 50% of all economic activity in Canada involves the United States in some way, it is definitly in Canadas economic interest to care. That doesn't nessicarily mean that Canada should change its current copyright system for the U.S., but it does mean that if Canada tries a pissing match with the U.S. about this, the U.S. can put some serious pressure on Canada. It means that Canada has to deal with the problem diplomaticly and shrudely, and not play into the typical Canadian inferiority complex an

Re:

[someone1234]

Isn't Canada in the process of tightening its copyright law? This really sounds like pressure, i wonder why it was needed, the bribes didn't work?

Re:Cue the music

[xsbellx]

Then maybe you would like to explain the US totally ignoring softwood lumber rulings from WTO. When will you Americans learn you cannot have it both ways.

Re:Cue the music

[RealGrouchy]

"When will you Americans learn you cannot have it both ways," you say, after citing a case where the Americans continually have it both ways.

- RG>

Re:

[fbjon]

He meant to say: "When will you Americans learn you cannot have it both ways, without being vilified and hated left and right."

Re:Cue the music

[ceoyoyo]

Except that it's not a random group, it's a powerful copyright lobby that has a history of getting exactly what they want.

Not to mention the US government (which is even less of a random group) has already pressured several other countries into changing their copyright laws and has been hard at work on Canada for some time already.

Re:Cue the music

[msobkow]

"Offtopic" my sphincter!

The interference of US politicos including DEA "advisors" on how to handle medical cannabis, US-led policy wonks who want us to charge a $75 levy on iPod and other media players to "recoup piracy losses", interference in our Kyoto protocol attempts, leveraging of "Income Trusts" as a tax loophole for fossil fuel companies to evade taxes, refusal by fossil fuel companies to pay the full royalties due on oil sands extraction, demands that we ignore US abuses of Canadian citizens under "anti-terrorism" "legislation" that never went through a proper judicial review in the US, refusal by the US to abide by NAFTA agreements on softwood even when their own courts say the US government is guilty, ...

Canada has a long, long list of grievances with the way the US interferes with our internal policies and government. The above is only a short list of some of the most important issues. Granted Shrub is only responsible personally for the so-called "War on Terror" and the related interference in our government's policies, but as the representative of the US government he is responsible for the entire pile during his tenure.

Re:Cue the music

[kfg]

The funny part is that until the 1970s it was the US that was the "rogue" nation on the international blacklist (and even had the gall to be proud of it), because it still held somewhat to the quaint ideas delineated in the Bill of Rights which are antithetical to a "guild" system of intellectual property.

Europe is the crucible from which "modern" (it's really fuedal, thus old fashioned, but what the hell. Nobody remembers anything before last Thursday anyway) copyright law was cast, but it's the converts that are almost always the biggest PITA fanatics; especially if there's money and power in it for them.

KFG

Re:

[saskboy]

That reminds me, I need to download a movie.

Thank goodness for Bit Torrent, and freedom in Canada.

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

Celine Dion, Bryan Adams, Avril Lavine, Nickelback, Alanis Morisette, Shania Twain...

Surely they should be blacklisted for the above atrocities to mankind.

Re:

[Robber Baron]

Celine Dion, Bryan Adams, Avril Lavine, Nickelback, Alanis Morisette, Shania Twain...

Surely they should be blacklisted for the above atrocities to mankind.

Oh yeah? Britney Spears. That alone is reason enough for your country to be thoroughly nuked so it can't ever happen again.

Re:

[kimvette]

What's wrong with South Park? They are far more fair and balanced than Fox could ever dream to be; they are an equal-opportunity offender. They make fun of Christians, Jews, and Muslims. They make fun of conservative and liberal extremists equally. Serially!

So they went with Al Gore's misspoken "Serial" and went to an extreme in poking fun at him. Big deal. They've made fun of Bush as well. Is making fun of Bush okay but not Saddam? What is your problem with it? If you can't stand the profanity and crassne

Tough choice

[Dorceon]

1. Copyright Law
2. Business Model

Modernize one.

Re:Tough choice

[antarctican]

Indeed. I fail to see how outlawing fair use and dual-use pieces of technology is "modernization."

Actually, that would be not too bad.

[alexandreracine]

Let's say Canada is on the black list. Then all countries on the black list would only do business togeter and not with the US anymore. Would the US make that mistake? Stoping billions in profits just for some millions lost? That would be so funny (MPAA, etc, shooting themself in the foot). But that would proove a point. When Canada and all others would be on the list, and music and movies would still be on the net, it is at that time, that the shooting in the foot would begin.

They are part of *that* lot.

[stimpleton]

A friend and I have discussed whether Canada is part of the Axis of Evil.

We concurred Yes. And reading this article just confirmed it, eh?

The release is backwards

[davmoo]

Apparently the editors of that press release got it backwards...its the US that has a "copyright regime". What they meant to say was Canada has "realistic and fair copyright laws, and we cannot accept that".

Re:The release is backwards

[Lord Kano]

What they meant to say was Canada has "realistic and fair copyright laws, and we cannot accept that".

Yeah, paying a tax on all recordable media is really fair.

LK

in other words

[President_Camacho]

'Canada's chronic failure to modernize its copyright regime has made it a global hub for bootleg movies, pirated software and tiny microchips that allow video-game users to bypass copyright protections'

Translation: "We have a stranglehold on the music and movie industries, we want control over video game consoles, as well."

Re:in other words

[grcumb]

'Canada's chronic failure to modernize its copyright regime has made it a global hub for bootleg movies, pirated software and tiny microchips that allow video-game users to bypass copyright protections'

Translation: "We have a stranglehold on the music and movie industries, we want control over video game consoles, as well."

No, a better translation would be:

The Conservative government needs a stick to shake at the Canadian public in order to cow them into accepting a digital media market that is more conducive to the desires of their corporate master. Conveniently, the media associations and their government cronies are happy to provide one.

I speak for all Canadians...

[abscissa]

... and all other people of the world, when I say that we just LOVE having Americans try to police us and control our affairs!

What are your GPS coordinates?

[EmbeddedJanitor]

Dear Sir/Madam

You are a lucky winner in our "Win a Tommahawk Cruise Missile" competition.

Re:I speak for all Canadians...

[dryeo]

Actually one of the first things Harper did was settle the softwood lumber dispute. Basically he agreed to settle for 80% or so of the money the US illegally took. For one overview see http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/softwood_lumber/ [www.cbc.ca]

Re:

[flyonthewall]

Settle?

Bah, he caved in and gave it all away as a transparent gesture of being neighborly. In reality this was an example of "how high?". In the end, you (U.S.) are paying more for your products due to protectionism from your cartels.

Can't wait to see this government defeated this spring.

Re:

[Burz]

They provide a healthcare environment that operates much less expensively (less waste) overall than the US "system". That cannot be considered a subsidy.

Re:I speak for all Canadians...

[schon]

George Bush thinking he's the leader of the free world [...] and he's right.

Sure, for a sufficiently revised definition of free.

OH NOS!!!

[Frogbert]

Don't put us on your list! Whatever will we do if you put our countries name on a list? I mean I might fly to another country and the people there could say "Hey! That guys country is on a LIST! Kill him!"

It could, and probably will, happen.

Re:OH NOS!!!

[ceoyoyo]

Except that it's the US's blacklist that we're getting put on. So I'd expect something more like "Hey! That guy's country is on the LIST! Quick, buy him a beer!"

Re:

[Patrik_AKA_RedX]

Don't laugh. They might carpet bomb the whole of Canada with Britney spears CDs.

And Canada preemptively retaliated with:

[nietsch]

Celine Dion.
That will give you pause.

Re:OH NOS!!!

[dangitman]

I mean, NOW whose flag are we gonna sew onto our backpacks when we're spending a summer travelling across Europe?

The Jolly Roger.

The Globe and Mail - a humour paper

[sugarmotor]

The article about "blacklisting Canada" appears on the front page of the same paper, the Globe and Mail.

On the same page is another article, "For today's family, time's not on their side -- Hectic schedules, longer work weeks contribute to less togetherness than in 80s".

All right, say it again - both of these are on the front page of the Globe and Mail!

That's why I call it a "humour paper". (However, the National Post is actually funnier!)

Stephan

Where's David Wilkins Now???

[rainman_bc]

David Wilkins ( US Ambassador to Canada), who states that Canada doesn't dictate US policy should now go put his head back in his ass. Read about Maher Arar and the ass hattery that came out of David Wilkins mouth.

If Canada doesn't dictate US policy, so too should the US not concern themselves with Canadian policies.

My Favorite quote

[grasshoppa]

"The problem of unauthorized camcording of films in Canadian theatres is now nearing crisis levels," the group complained.

Crisis levels? People are dying?

No, it's a fucking camcorder recording of a hollywood movie. All the bad things about watching the movie in the theator in the privacy of your own home.

If this is really a problem, it's because the movies suck and early word getting out about how bad the movie is is hurting sales. Simple solution to that; Stop making crap movies.

Re:My Favorite quote

[TFloore]

a fucking camcorder recording of a hollywood movie

There's a missing note of hilarity here. Let me modify your statement slightly so you'll see it.

a fucking camcorder recording of a hollywood movie that was filmed in Canada because it is cheaper there

Are you laughing now? The US is exporting IP-related jobs to a country it claims doesn't respect IP.

Personally, I think that's a great joke.

Re:

[Digital Vomit]

Camcorder copies of Hollywood movies is not something the government has any business discussing. There are tons of real problems that they should be spending their time trying to solve. It's like complaining the contractors painted your house the wrong color while hundreds of nuclear warheads are on their way to obliterate your country.

To the people in government that are discussing copyright crap: shut the hell up about non-issues like camcorder copies of movies and get your asses back to work trying t

They should start exporting their smokes north

[whitehatlurker]

FTFA:

The problem of unauthorized camcording of films in Canadian theatres is now nearing crisis levels

What is a "crisis level" for camcorders in movie theatres? Is that where the people behind you start attacking you for using a camera that makes too much noise (or gives off too much light, or what)?

Nonetheless, if this sanction was imposed, Canada could retaliate by putting the Yanks on the list of countries to whom they won't export oil or uranium. Then the Americans would have to nicer to Chavez ... (This won't happen. By "this" I mean Canada blocking energy exports. The Canadians put up with a lot.)

Re:

[Dunbal]

Canada could retaliate by putting the Yanks on the list of countries to whom they won't export oil or uranium.

      Oil they can get elsewhere. You want to see them squirm, cut off their supply of nickel. Canada is the largest producer in the world of that metal.

Re:They should start exporting their smokes north

[willy_me]

Actually, it's like this:

1: Canada
2: Mexico
3: Middle East
4: Argentina

I just read this the other day (cnn.com). Personally I was surprised that Mexico exported so much oil, but I'm not surprised about Canada. Funny thing is much of that oil gets sent to the States for refinement and then is sent back to Canada.

Willy

Piracy is a problem with video games?

[tomstdenis]

You mean the industry that rakes in more than the movie and music industries ... COMBINED?

You mean the one that rakes in more and more profits each year?

Yeah, piracy is just SUCH a problem, crippling that industry...

And Canada doesn't need any new policy since it's already a civil offence to violate the copyright of another.

Re:

[QRDeNameland]

Don't forget about porn, which accounts for something like 60% of all P2P traffic. By far, porn is the most pirated form of IP, yet does not seem to be in any danger of disappearing.

Re:

[A_Non_Moose]

Don't forget about porn, which accounts for something like 60% of all P2P traffic.
By far, porn is the most pirated form of IP, yet does not seem to be in any danger of disappearing.

Well, in order to have the law enforced, you have to be caught red handed...errr...there has to be
a smoking gun...ummm *coff*...dang, too hard (shit, did it again) to phrase it just right.

(/quietly exits thread)

Height of ignorance & arogance

[UnknownSoldier]

"failure to modernize its copyright regime" ??

Canada's copyright system is MORE modern then the US. Common sense tells us that there is no difference "If I loan a CD to a friend to listen to", or "make a copy for him to listen to." I guess we should ban libraries too since the artist is not getting "his fair share."

Copyright & Intellectual Property Rights (which are neither property nor rights) are artificial rights from a world where only people care about greed, instead of sharing knowledge.

What price do you put on a patent that could cure cancer? Why is it OK to profit off the sick & dying? Have we really made that little progress in the past million years, that we still cry & whine like a 2 year saying "mine" -- simply because we were the first to come up with an idea, that we could care less about our fellow human beings??

Copyright: Because it's _such_ a crime against humanity, that people want to share what they find entertaining with others, for free!

--
Because its easier to get mod'd down for having the courage to look at the facts, then ignore Forgotten Christian History [peopleofhonoronly.com].

Re:

[dryeo]

Actually in Canada it is illegal for you to copy a CD for your friend (it is distributing). What is legal is to let your friend make a copy for their self.
Really this is all about forcing us to have a DMCA type law on the books.

Re:Height of ignorance & arogance

[Em Adespoton]

I own the CD, I own the blank CD, I own the burner, it's in my house, what I do with my property on my property - including giving the burned CD to a friend - is my business.

Unfortunately, Canadian copyright law disagrees. Copying and distributing is infringement. However, if you lend your friend your CD and they make a copy of it and return your CD, THAT is fully legal under Canadian law. Anyone in possession of the IP can make as many personal copies as they want. They just can't distribute copies. To me, that makes a LOT of sense. Similarly, making a copy of a movie in a theatre should be legal; distributing the copy shouldn't be. Modifying a game console in your possession should be legal; I'm not sure about distributing modified consoles, as they shouldn't fall under copyright law, but appear to in some instances. Same with direct satellite.

Re:

[Chandon Seldon]

If you loan your CD to your friend the content of that CD is still limited to being played in a single location.

Data simply doesn't have this property. Any argument based on the premise that it does is fallacious.

If I own a hammer I am not allowed to freely hit people simply because they are on my property.

Ahh... but you are allowed to hit a nail, or your TV, or whatever else you want that won't hurt anyone.

It's true that making a copy of a CD for a friend in the United States is currently illegal. I wo

Why is Canada singled out?

[Cocoshimmy]

Canada isn't the only nation with slack copyright laws. What about, say Romania, which publically declared [theinquirer.net] that they built their country on piracy. Or for example Sweden which hasn't been cracking down on piracy either?

But that is besides the point. This is just yet another attempt by a US lobby to try to use the US government to boss Canada around.

Let's go over this slowly

[rumblin'rabbit]

So they want Bush to blacklist Canada, their biggest trading partner (last I heard), their NATO ally, whose troops are now fighting in Afghanistan against the Taliban, possessor of the second largest petroleum reserves in the world, and whose government is one of the very few who are not overtly hostile to the Bush administration?

Over video games?

Cool.

Re:Let's go over this slowly

[Kjella]

So they want Bush to blacklist Canada, their biggest trading partner (last I heard), their NATO ally, whose troops are now fighting in Afghanistan against the Taliban, possessor of the second largest petroleum reserves in the world, and whose government is one of the very few who are not overtly hostile to the Bush administration?

Over video games?

Cool.

Just wait until they come to "liberate" you from your outdated copyright regime.

Biggest trading partner? Haliburton is ready to take over that.
NATO ally? Pay attention to how well they treat their EU allies lately.
Fighting terrorists? So did Saddam, didn't want any religious fundies opposing him.
Oil? And that's a.... con?
Friendly government? Wasn't that a WMD pointing at the US I saw, I'm sure I did.

And the five-year forecast: Civil war between eskimos, quebecois and english-speaking canadians.

Re:Let's go over this slowly

[rumblin'rabbit]

Inuit, not eskimos, you insensitive clod.

Do we refer to African-Americans as "negroes"? Or Microsoft as "scum-sucking patent-hoarding competition-crushing market-manipulating idea-stealing monopolistic capitalistic bastard offspring of leprous apes"?

Okay, bad example.

Re:Let's go over this slowly

[Eevee]

All Inuit are Eskimos; but not all Eskimos are Inuit. Some Eskimos are Yupik. As for being an insensitive term, apparently it depends on where you live. [uaf.edu]

Re:Let's go over this slowly

[ceoyoyo]

Our "friendship" with the US is often cited as a reason why we should put up with a lot of things not the least of which was going to fight in Afghanistan. It's probably second only to the excuse "but they're our biggest trading partner!" When a foreign country is such an important trading partner that it's used as an excuse for letting them meddle in your internal affairs that says to me that it's time to find some new trading partners.

Sure, we shouldn't stop sending you guys oil, but we should definitely be looking to sell more of it (along with other things) to places other than the US. They've proven over and over that they can't be trusted not to abuse their position as primary trade partner.

Re:

[Deliveranc3]

We just sold a bunch to China, they'll save our ass if the U.S. goes batshit.

I think Canada has a friendly enough reputation that the (Conservatives to follow Hillary) won't be able to lie that we have WMDs..

There are an awful lot of people of Chinese descent in Canada too... Too bad their a bunch of commies...

Oh wait Canada's gonna piss off the U.S. by being too left wing.... good good.

treaty obligations?

[j1m+5n0w]

It would be interesting to know just what Canada's obligations are under the Berne convention [wikipedia.org] or any other IP treaties they may have signed. Is this just a bunch of large corporations whining that the rights they think they ought to have aren't universally recognized, or is Canada actually breaking a treaty obligation? Or is the Berne convention sufficiently vague that both sides can plausibly believe they are right? What if a country doesn't want to participate in the Berne convention or trips [wikipedia.org] anymore? (The US didn't sign on until 1989, now we're trying to force our IP laws on everyone else.)

Let's start adding them up...

[Kjella]

...but I don't know where to start, by size or notority.

SE Asia is pretty much one big pool of piracy all around.
China is a huge one, they don't seem to care about IP at all.
Ukraine seems to be the most fucked up of the former Soviets.
Russia isn't far behind, with allofmp3 and all.
All the remaining ex-Soviet states are notorious too.
East europe in general has a long track record of piracy.
West europe got the fastest lines and places like The Pirate Bay.
South America is quite rampant too, last I checked.
Australia banned the region coding crap, didn't they?

Anyone know if the Middle East and Africa qualifies? Haven't heard much but I bet they do. Now they want to add Canada to this "exclusive" list? I have a much simpler proposition: Take the list of countries. Remove US and maybe their pet dog, UK. The remainder is their list of copyright villains.

I can see this as only good.

[Lordpidey]

By allowing pirates within their shores, Canada is surely helping alleviate global warming. I thank them.

I think

[AlphaLop]

As an American Citizen I really hope Canada Man's up and tells the USA to go screw itself. America needs to worry more about the problems we have at home and less on other countries internal politics when they are not a threat to the U.S.'s safety.

To the best of my knowledge, copyright infringement going on in other countries in no way affects our safety (besides the weak "it funds terrorists" argument that seems to be the defacto excuse for everything around here anymore).

The only people that would benefit from the massive expense and sacrifice of civil liberty that would be necessary to enact such a stupid idea would be the media fat cats..... And they can go and (insert witty thing here) themselves for all I care.

Re:

[blahplusplus]

"As an American Citizen I really hope Canada Man's up and tells the USA to go screw itself. America needs to worry more about the problems we have at home and less on other countries internal politics when they are not a threat to the U.S.'s safety."

Any country that doesn't play by the economic policy of the US is a threat to the USA. The US is basically the arm of corporations now, your fellow countrymen's blind adherence to extreme propertarianism and extreme capitalism are partly to blame.

I've been real

Michael Geist

[alexandre]

Take a look at Michael Geist [michaelgeist.ca]'s blog... he's the Lawrence Lessig of Canada.

This message proudly paid by a Montreal Pirate! (whatever that means ;)

Oh Put A Sock In It

[The Real Nem]

The last article was completely overblown, and this is even worse.

Once put on notice, failure to address U.S. concerns could result in trade challenges at the World Trade Organization, plus possible sanctions.

Need I even go into the many ways the US has violated [www.cbc.ca] our free trade agreement. How are different copyright laws even a violation?

...and tiny microchips that allow video-game users to bypass copyright protections...

Maybe because the copyright protections violate our basic copyright freedoms? There's no DMCA here.

The industry paints a grim picture of Canada as a country where copyright pirates operate with impunity because of lax laws, poor enforcement and a laissez-faire attitude.

In case you haven't noticed, we're lax in all areas of law. How has incarceration [wikipedia.org] helped to reduce US crime rates [fbi.gov]? Why should copyright violation be a criminal offense? The last article was even so bold to say:

Frith says government bureaucrats try to placate him by saying that under the Copyright Act exhibitors have the ability to charge someone criminally. "But here's the catch. Under the Copyright Act, you have to prove that an individual camcording in the theatre is doing it for distribution purposes. That's almost impossible."

So camcording is a criminal offense, you just have to, shock, prove your case rather than assume guilt. I guess this article is *technically* right when it says:

Unlike in the United States and most other developed countries, videotaping movies in theatres is not illegal in Canada.

What else did they complain about proving?

We don't want to have to prove the economic loss from distribution. We want it to be a Criminal Code activity to be caught camcording. Period.

Is that 15th century thinking I hear? Are they going to blacklist every liberal country?

"Highly organized international-crime groups have rushed into the gap left by Canada's outmoded copyright law and now use the country as a springboard from which to undermine legitimate markets in the United States, the United Kingdom, Australia and elsewhere," the group said.

Please, the UK and Australia wouldn't even have these type of laws if the US and *AA and friends hadn't strong armed them into it. Are these the only shinning examples they can find?

A Canuck who says, "BLACKLIST ME BABY!!!"

[Cordath]

Blacklisting Canada... What an excellent idea!

Let's say that the U.S. delayed the release of all films in Canada by several months, as they have already threatened to do. Suddenly, film release dates in Canada would no longer coincide with the hype in American media. Canadian consumers would have to endure months of temptation to download industry-insider-provided rips of screeners (not crappy camcorder copies) before films finally come out in Canada. That would certainly hurt good films, but those one-weekend-wonder stinkers that are massively promoted (and never shown to critics in advance) would flop bigtime in a fore-warned Canada. Overall, that's a lot fewer movie tickets sold. Who's going to pick up the slack? Maybe, just maybe, local Canadian film-makers. Quebec actually has a pretty good cinema going but English Canada has bugger all thanks to the abundance of american media. Anything that reduces the market share of american cinema is likely to cause a boom in Canadian film. Yes, american TV shows filming on the cheap in Canada might finally have a little competition for local talent, but who cares?

Market controls on foreign content in a nation's cinema have been shown to improve that nation's cinema. Just look at French cinema since WWII. Their government required that a certain percentage of films shown in French cinemas had to be French. U.S. production companies were financing cheap films just to boost the overall French market so they could release more films in France! Canada considered implementing similar legislation, but failed to do so, much to the detriment of our own nation's cinema. Canada's cinema could certainly benefit from market controls today, but implementing them would be political suicide for any who dared. The U.S. would cry foul over protectionism and Canadians used to american films would be very peeved about not being able to get their fix. However, if the kind americans were to do this for us...

This really is a win-win situation for Canada. The worst the U.S. can do to Canada is the best possible thing for Canada's cinema and the worst possible thing for american film makers. So *PLEASE* blacklist us. Pretty please! I freakin' double dare ya! Heck, BAN the release of american movies in Canada indefinately!

I hope this hits the mainstream news in Canada

[wrook]

I'd like to see what the reaction would be. It might surprise many Americans, but there is a fair amount of anti-american sentiment here north of the 49. I know we seem friendly and all, but really we're just polite. (Note: I like American's just fine... well all the ones that aren't the president... and a few others...)

I believe all this "Canadians are dirty rotten thieves" stuff the "IP proponents" are pulling is due to the fact that the current government is working on revising our copyright law. I suspect that they are trying to pressure the Canadian government into getting their way.

It might even be at the behest of the government who seems to be intent on listening to only one side (guess who?). The Conservatives campaigned partially on "repairing the damage that the liberals did to US - Canada relations" (not that most Americans pay much attention to Canada anyway...) The copyright reforms are likely to be very unpopular no matter what's in them. If they say, "Oh we need to crack down to keep our relations happy with the Americans", maybe they think that will smooth things over.

If that's the case, I think they are terribly misguided. Canadians have always had a low tolerance to being stepped on by the elephant that is the US. We have a chip on our shoulders. In fact, one of the defining principles of being a Canadian is that "We aren't American". For some people, that's their only definition of being Canadian.

Pressure from the US to do *anything* to our laws will likely doom that idea, whether it be good or bad. Hence it would be nice to see what happens if the above characterization would be on the front page of the local newspapers...

Time to fight back

[G1975a]

How's aboot we withold Canadian bacon, maple syrup and cheap pharmacy drugs from Americans?

Canadians are nice

[kurt555gs]

I travel to Canada quite a bit, and one thing I find there is a general respect for the law. But, respect works both ways and fair use is fair use.

Just because the US was pressured into these silly ideas of Intellectual Property Owners can rule your mind, doest make them right.

I think what the Riaa and Mpaa are worried about is that Canadians are still customers to be sold, not consumers to be culled.

There are very few places on earth that are as fair and law abiding as Canada, but when we ask them to enact silly DMCA like laws, they might just not agree they want them.

Remember, there is no such thing as Intellectual Property ownership, just a limited monopoly on the rights of distribution, excepting fair use.

The whole world could learn from Canada on this.

Cheers
 

Obligatory Canadian Bacon quotes

[cpghost]

- "Let's send the Omega Force!"

- "There's a time to think, and there's a time to act. And this, gentlemen, is not a time to think."

- "Canadians are always dreaming up a lotta ways to ruin our lives. The metric system, for the love of God! Celsius! Neil Young!" ... and now Piracy!

and last, but not least:

- "Stop piracy, pronto! Or we'll level Toronto!"

""Chronic" failure", you say?

[Jon.Laslow]

I live in BC, the pot capital of North America, and all I can say is the only Chronic failure that I ever see is when someone tries to light up and either their out of Butane or didn't roll properly. Then again...

(catchpa: underway)

Re:As a Canadian to Bush

[alienmole]

Canada should put the USA on some kind of a rogue counties list , for terrorism, meddling in the internal affairs of other countries, being way too fat and making crappy movies.

Actually, quite seriously, this is the way to go. The grievances we all hear that other countries have with the U.S. are often raised, but never to a level at which the U.S. government really has to answer to them or think about them. The U.S. people have failed to keep its government in check, it's up to the rest of the first world (and perhaps other countries) to step up and help do so.

Re:

[MightyYar]

Clinton. It was passed in 1998 - Bush didn't take office until 2001. 'Nuff said.