U.S. Senators Pressure Canada on Canadian DMCA 466
An anonymous reader writes "The U.S. copyright lobby brought out some heavy artillery last week as
it continued to pressure Canada to introduce a Canadian DMCA. U.S.
Ambassador to Canada David Wilkins gave a public
talk in which he described Canadian copyright law as the weakest in
the G7, while Senators Dianne Feinstein and John Cornyn wrote to
Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper to urge him to bring in movie piracy
legislation."
go home... (Score:5, Insightful)
May I be so presumptuous? (Score:5, Insightful)
Please, leave us alone. We can run our own country just fine without you.
Re:go home... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:May I be so presumptuous? (Score:5, Insightful)
It should read:
"Fuck off and run your own god damned country, you fucking hosers, ehh."
Screw You... (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:go home... (Score:3, Insightful)
I told them I don't want them selling oil or energy or natural gas to war criminals anymore, and that I think we need a trade embargo on the US.
Hmmmmmm (Score:5, Insightful)
As a Canadian and a copywrite holder I say, you do what you like there, and we'll do what we like here. It's your country, have fun! But this is our country and we'll do as we damn well please.
We have more pressing problems. Social problems, economic and political problems. Copywrite? We've got bigger fish to fry.
Re:May I be so presumptuous? (Score:3, Insightful)
Money talks (Score:3, Insightful)
The US Ambassador is a TROLL (Score:5, Insightful)
David Wilkins.. (Score:5, Insightful)
Hmm.. surely he has the same attitude towards internal Canadian matters, right? Otherwise, he'd just be hypocritical. Right? Oh, wait..
Re:Screw You... (Score:3, Insightful)
That's the nature of (most) organized societies. Power to us at the expense of them.
It's annoying, but it's the nature of power and today's US government is no different than a multitiude of governments that have gone before, despite some remarkable experiments in alternative governments.
By the nature of greed and thirst for power, governments that do not possess those attributes become dominated by people who do.
The problem here is that a purported representative republic no longer has officials who represent the public. I've mentioned it before, but there is no accountability to the individual when you represent a few million people; instead, the accountability is to the groups that choose who gets elected -- corporations and the media.
Oh, it's the beginning of the end... but not the end of the corporatocracy. It's the end of the "grand experiment" of the American republic as a republic.
Dear USA (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:While I can understand Canadians taking offense (Score:5, Insightful)
Yes, that's exactally what it is. (Of course, you expected to get flamed!). Do you not recall the Slashdot story, where the claim that movies are generally pirated in Canada was false? The RIAA's own information contradicts that assertion:
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/05/1
So, this is the RIAA, using it's bought and paid for Senators to try to influence politics in another country. Guess how much US Senators like Canadian politicians giving them advice? (Like 'don't go to Iraq'). About the same as we like US 'Ambassadors' telling us what we should do in our own country.
Yes, you may (Score:3, Insightful)
But, by the same token, I would ask Senator Feinstein to PLEASE FUCK RIGHT OFF. I didn't serve on jury duty in your goddamned state, so don't ask our Prime Minister to do your dirty work for you.
Re:May I be so presumptuous? (Score:3, Insightful)
Quebec is like the sexy girlfriend that you keep because she's so much fun and makes you look good, but she's always acting like a bitch and threatening to leave you so you'll keep giving her presents, basically.
Re:While I can understand Canadians taking offense (Score:4, Insightful)
So they think that preventing Canadians from paying to see the movies in a theater will encourage them not to download those movies instead?
Oh, sorry, I forgot we're talking about movie studio logic here.
Re:While I can understand Canadians taking offense (Score:4, Insightful)
Thursday, January 25, 2007 As much as 50 per cent of the world's pirated movies come from Canada, prompting the film industry to threaten to delay the release of new titles in this country. (someone note the bolded words, I could write as little as 0 % and not change the meaning of the sentence, why? Because it's a weak garbage sentence that implies far more then it supports.)
The link that you posted was a little more bald in it's assertions, but not really that different. Try reading this link to the Toronto Star [thestar.com] to see where reasonable minds dispute the "facts" presented by the American Media Companies.
Re:While I can understand Canadians taking offense (Score:3, Insightful)
The article you are quoting says
So combine
1) the initial reports claiming 50% of movies were camcorded in Canada with
2) the threat of delayed movie releases in Canada and
3) demands for Americanized copyright protections in Canada
And you get a perfect example of bullying.
Thanks, USA, this will help keep things the same! (Score:5, Insightful)
The thing about your World Stage move from friend to bully is that nobody will take you seriously any more, not unless you pull out your big stick. For 'friends' this stick has always been your deep pockets, but thanks to your recent choices in leadership has been whittled away.
Before Bush: $1 US = $1.68 CDN. Today: $1 US = $1.16 CDN (and its been as low as $1.10).
Not such a big stick anymore...top that off with your rough foriegn policy and the increasing ease of global commerce, and suddenly we don't really care so much anymore when you get mad at us.
And, to be clear, dear Americans, this isn't "the politicians" talking, this is America talking...you vote for them, you let them run your country, they are your voice as surely and purely as anything you say yourselves. Only citizens of a dictatorship get to cry innocent.
Sooner or later you guys are going to have to take back what your elected weasels have taken from you. Until then, come on up North, we'll watch some downloaded movies, smoke some fine Cuban cigars, do some online gambling, throw rice at a couple of ladies getting married and freeze our asses off (hey, it's still Canada).
Someone post the numbe and name on who we call (Score:2, Insightful)
Re:May I be so presumptuous? (Score:3, Insightful)
I don't know if their numbers are realistic, but Canadian piracy of American movies HAS to be detrimental to the Canadian economy to some extent.
Politicians are way behind the curve already. (Score:3, Insightful)
Meet the new boss ... (Score:3, Insightful)
Why do we care about David Wilkins??? (Score:1, Insightful)
On the matter of Maher Arar, a Canadian who found himself on a list of suspected terrorists and shipped to Syria to be tortured, a Canadian panel found that mistakes were made and Arar was given a formal apology by the Canadian government and a $10 million compensation package. Our government then requested Arar to be removed from the U.S. terrorist list because the information was shown faulty. U.S. Ambassador David Wilkins said, "It's a little presumptuous for him [our Public Safety Minister] to say who the United States can and cannot allow into our country."
On the matter of the U.S. ignoring World Trade Organization rulings and our North American Free Trade agreement and taxing our lumber exports, David Wilkins dismissed our ministers' complaints as "emotional tirades". That's $5 billion dollars in illegal tarrifs. Any country would get a bit emotional...
David Wilkins also questioned our claim to some of the Arctic waters bordering Canada's north. Wilkins objected to Canada placing military icebreakers up in the north. What, the U.S. thinks it has greater access to the Arctic than Canada??
And now he's telling us that our technology laws are too lax for America's comfort... So we can't tell the U.S. how to interpret international trade laws and we can't tell the U.S. that a man's rights were violated because of flawed intelligence and we can't tell the U.S. where our northern geographic borders lie... Yet David Wilkins believes the U.S. has the right to tell us how we listen to our music???
David Wilkins lacks the smooth rhetoric required of an ambassador. He's not willing to look at compromises. He's not a U.S. Ambassador to Canada. He's Bush's pitbull to keep the troublesome Canadians in check.
Re:Money talks (Score:2, Insightful)
More than 1000$ (Score:2, Insightful)
So piracy means every single family - poor and retired folks included - 275$/month worth of entertainment, every single month, year-round? Ludicrous.
Yes, piracy has cut in my spending somewhat (not buying crap not worth buying anymore, but I still support my favorite artists), but it's not like I was even spending that much in the first place, even if you include things like cable TV and Netflix.
Re:Money talks (Score:5, Insightful)
They are also a net importer [doe.gov] of oil from Canada. Maybe it's time to turn off the tap.
Re:go home... (Score:3, Insightful)
Canada is a haven for terrorists. [FALSE]
Canadian softwood lumber is unfairly subsidized. [FALSE]
Iraq has weapons of mass destruction. [FALSE]
Americans enjoy the greatest freedoms in the world today. [FALSE]
It seems that few U.S. politicians actually think these days - they'd much rather go for kneejerk reactions. Too often, their mentality is one of paranoia and xenophobia (only _PARTIALLY_ understandable in light of 9/11) that encourages overzealous protectionism and isolation. (e.g. Americans don't drive imports, they drive FOREIGN cars.)
U.S. politicians and ambassadors (at the behest of big industry) love to spout rhetoric about the "bad behaviour" of Canada and other countries while completely denying the problems that their unfair trade practices and political interference cause. Such hypocrisy strains the friendship of U.S. allies and fuels the hatred of their enemies. The U.S. should really try to be a better world citizen by listening to their friends instead of doing all of the "talking".
Dear Ambassador and Senators.... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:May I be so presumptuous? (Score:3, Insightful)
The Americans doing this are the copyright holders via their lobbyists. Please confine your admirable detest of these actions to the people who are performing them, there's no need to generalize to include the whole populace.
On an individual level people are mostly the same the world over, so please use your head. I can't make these senators stop doing what they're doing any more than you can make your representatives start behaving like this.
Re:May I be so presumptuous? (Score:3, Insightful)
Ultimately your politicians are answerable to you, no?
So get off your well-marbled McDonald's-fed asses and make them accountable!
And if they refuse to listen to reason, ask the French for a loan of Madame Guillotine.
Canada: Turn This Around (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Money talks (Score:3, Insightful)
While I think the management of the war in Iraq has been pretty poor...I think we pretty much had full UN authority to go into Iraq...due to resolutions like this [un.org] .
Our 'knock' on the their door was the Serious Consequence mentioned in this and other resolutions.
Not to mention, that Saddam never fully complied with the terms of surrender from Gulf War I...so, technically, we were still at war with him.
I think this has been totally mismanaged, but, not unjustified...if he'd have complied fully, he's still be breathing and torturing people in Iraq to this day.
Re:Money talks (Score:4, Insightful)
You're missing the point big time. Yes, the US is a huge exporter of copyrighted materials, but Canada is a huge importer of copyrighted materials. The US could never afford to lose Canada as a customer, which means that they can't dictate shit about anything.
Money does indeed talk. This time it's speaking for the cool people.
Gee - I think it's time to start auditing congress (Score:3, Insightful)
It might, just might, get rid of a lot of the "corporate influence" that seems to run through currently.
Lumber (Serious Wood) (Score:1, Insightful)
In the end, they pressured the Canadians into signing away their right to export lumber to the USA duty-free, in exchange for the return of 40% of the duties they had already illegally collected, at the threat of 5 more years of the same...
This is just LUMBER. It's not even a major industry for the USA, but they still felt the need to fight dirty and nasty and long. It's just one example.
And they wonder why Canadians don't like being told how to run their country by Americans...
Despite the rhetoric designed to get us to implement DMCA-type laws, the copyright law in Canada is quite good. You cannot make copies for resale. You cannot even give away copies.
But if you're going to sue someone over this: (a) you better be prepared to set precedent, the details aren't ironed out yet, so you better have a good case (b) we pay a blank media tax for artists, the presumption obviously that some private copies will be made (c) if you sue and lose in court, you likely pay their lawyer costs (d) if you want to find someone's details from an ISP, you have to prove it to a judge in court, not just sign a paper allegation for a clerk (e) you can't demand usurious compensation, you have to prove real damages (f) there's no guarantee you'll get legal costs if you win.
I do know some guys from the early days of the internet here in Canada, who were nailed by Playboy for selling CD's of copyrighted pictures. Playboy didn't get rich of a bunch of kids, but they did make sure these guys would not take the risk of doing it again. Our legal system does work.
Somehow, the RIAA's trained senators don't seem to like fair rules.
Re:go home... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:May I be so presumptuous? (Score:3, Insightful)
No. In reality, politicians are answerable to the forces that get them elected -- big business and the media (which, although I make a distinction, are one and the same) -- not the people.
That's not so easy in a quasi-police state with a huge military. You think people are willing to risk their lives over copyrights? As you point out, we're sated with our McD's and creature comforts, so revolution isn't about to happen.
Karl Marx said that religion is the opiate of the masses, but Americans don't need opiates -- we have enough bread and circus to keep us content.
Re:go home... (Score:5, Insightful)
Perhaps not but there are a good few rolling wherever they are using fuel made from Canadian oil. So lets make a deal: you don't tell us what we can do with your movies and we won't tell you what you can do with our oil.
Re:go home... (Score:3, Insightful)
Yeah, good luck with that. Seems to be working real well with China. Draconian copyright laws are NOT the way to ensure artists rights and promote creative output.
Fair use and fair compensation are.
Perhaps the US should look into fixing its corrupt entertainment industry before worrying about what other contries allow or do not allow citizens to do with content.
Will probably happen... (Score:3, Insightful)
That said, they'd need do something about the fair-use rights consumers have (you can make a private copy of a music CD that you borrowed) and stop charging the tariff on the blank media we currently pay. That or work it into the system.
Canada does a lot of things to keep the US happy. Most Canadians aren't against marijuana, and while there are laws in place, being caught we substantial quantities rarely amounts to much more than a slap on the wrist.
Unfortunately, the only thing more diverse than our respective takes on guns, drugs and fair-use-media is the size of the two economies. Sometimes Canada has to pay lip service to something that we'll never take action on. This is probably going to end up as one of those issues.
Re:go home... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Money talks (Score:3, Insightful)
Ummm, how much does "jumping the line" cost you in the US compared to Canada? And I have been to a few Hospitals in both countries, visiting and being patient, and as far as cleanliness goes they were pretty much on par. Oh, and so were wait times with Canada slightly faster in one occasion.
Yes, for those who can AFFORD it, which isn't the majority. Healthcare is more than just having the latest shiny toy. Studies have shown that the US system is one of the most wasteful systems in the world, not to mention the most expensive one.
Have you ever been in debt because you went to a doctor? Or lost an appendage because you couldn't afford to go to the doctor? The "freedom to pay" is not a freedom but a liability. Live in the US for a while, try it on a low pay job and then come back and tell me how much you enjoyed that freedom.
The Canadian system works way more often than it does not, and even better: It is owned by the people, WE can change it, it is not done "for profit" which means nobody has to pay for a profit margine that gets paid out to CEOs and shareholders.
I didn't pay more than ~33% for any job I had across the provinces, go figure. The Canadian tax system is also geared to allow the lower end income people to retain more of their salary.
Depends on the province you live in. Feel free to write to your PM and suggest a tax cut if you think that helps. Liquor and Tobacco have both negative health effects and aren't "basic need" so I have no problem with the higher taxes.
Finally, the US is even more splintered than Canada. I lived in a part where I had the pleasure to pay a total of 25% of taxes on Goods, how? Because I got dinged with Federal, State, County AND city tax on a can of coke.
When you hate it so much, move south?
Use NAFTA, find a job down there then apply for a Greencard. If you really want to leave you can be down there next month and experience first hand the superior american system (place sarcasm tax were needed).
Re:Money talks (Score:4, Insightful)
Yep, you're totally divorced from reality, since that was what everything they said was skewed to mislead people into believing. Or do you think it was just an accident that at one point over 50% of the American people thought Saddam was actively involved in 9/11. There certainly weren't any facts to back that up, so it had to come from somewhere. They were the only ones making that connection.
But, I do recall the reasoning behind the Iraq invasion being WMD suspicions (based on faulty data that most countries were operating on).
It's worse than that. It was intentionally falsified data. Most countries thought it was bullshit at the time that Colin Powell was lying through his teeth to the UN with his vial of anthrax.
Even then all reasonable people knew the whole thing was a scam, and they knew Powell was lying through his teeth.
Re:go home... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:go home... (Score:1, Insightful)
Re:go home... (Score:4, Insightful)
> for free. I just figured that all the crew up there were actually spending money on
> local labor, food, electricity and whatever else is needed to shoot a film.
And I wasn't aware that the US let their movies get shown in Canada for free either. The US hates being told what to do, and they ignore it every chance they get, for example, look at the US / Canada softwood lumber dispute. Each time, one of the governing bodies over the NAFTA agreement says the US has overstepped it's bounds on the tariffs being charged, they simply ignore the ruling and find a different body to say that the tariffs are perfectly fine. Yet, at the same time, they want to dictate how every other country around them runs things. Did the US consult with Mexico or Canada when they decided to change how daylight savings time works? Nope, not at all, they just said screw it and just did it. I'm not saying that the change is a bad thing, but the US is like the big kid on the block, do it my way or fcuk you. This DMCA crap is no different, and given the current quality of American movie productions, I'm perfectly fine if they decide to not show them in Canada, most of them suck anyway, especially given the cost of a ticket these days. Put out a sucky movie, charge a lower price for it, then maybe people will start going back to the theatres, but $10 per adult ticket + $10 for popcorn and a drink = WAY TO EXPENSIVE, especially when someone can wait 3 months, rent it for $5 and buy a 2L of Coke for about a $1.50
Re:go home... (Score:1, Insightful)
No, you are quite bass-ackwards here. Canada is the customer here. The customer is the one you want to make happy. The customer doesn't have to try and make anyone else happy. There would be a riot "UNFAIR, UNFAIR!" If Canada tried to ban US movies. If the US wants to not sell movies to Canada, then fine. Do that. Perhaps the US film industry could not sell their films to other countries also, that way, they could be 100% certain that all of their films are covered by the draconian DMCA. David Wilkins very recently told Canadian legislators (over the Mahair Arar case) that Canada has no business telling the US who they should and should not have on terror watch lists (whether warranted or not). Now I'm saying that the US has no danmed business telling Canada (or any other country for that matter) what laws it should or should not have. The DMCA is a stupid law. Very stupid. Just because the United States has a very stupid law, does not mean the rest of the world should have an equally stupid law. Stop selling films made in the US to Canada if it makes you feel better, but shut the fuck up about what laws we should have. Thanks.
Re:go home... (Score:3, Insightful)
Of course given current Canadian copyright law if these companies refused to sell them in Canada. Then any Canadian resident could obtain them by "other means" perfectly legally.
Re:I'm American (Score:3, Insightful)
Especially since any government perporting to be democratic should be putting the interests of it's own people before those of foreign corporations. (This is something the US has historically been very poor at respecting.)