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Gran Paradiso Alpha 3 187

Posted by kdawson
from the car-insurance-not-included dept.
kbrosnan writes "Gran Paradiso Alpha 3 is a release of the Gecko rendering engine for testing purposes only. Here are the release notes. While this release uses the interface of Firefox, no significant interface changes have been made. These alpha releases focus on making improvements to the core elements: graphics, JavaScript, page rendering, etc."
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Gran Paradiso Alpha 3

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  • Changes. (Score:3, Funny)

    by Seumas (6865) on Sunday March 25, 2007 @04:01PM (#18480803)

    no significant interface changes have been made. These alpha releases focus on making improvements to the core elements: graphics, JavaScript, page rendering, etc."
    In other words, there have been no changes to anything that MSIE users care about, like 3d buttons, blocky, chunky, weird, chunky tabs and nifty "click" noises every time you click something, load something, go back a page, go forward a page, scroll down a page, select something, delete something, type something, submit something or refresh something?
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by NekoXP (67564)
      Aww but I love the click in IE. Sometimes when I click in Firefox I wonder if it's actually DOING anything.. it does seem to sit there and churn a lot in the background. When I click in IE and it's locked up because of some dumb flash anim and not responding to my button press, it doesn't make any sound.

      The click makes it very clear when the browser is sucking ass, and when it is not :)
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by gerrysteele (927030)
        Perhaps someday soon they might invent some innovative technology to update you of these events.

        I would call it "The Status Bar".

      • So the throbber and status bar are not enough? Submit a request for enhancement to bugzilla. And call it an accessibility option. It shouldn't be hard to add an optional click noise.
    • IE users don't go for Alpha Software, do they? When you use MS Windows you expect fully functional software that always works as expected. I'll recommend to wait for Firefox 3 Final.
  • by FishWithAHammer (957772) on Sunday March 25, 2007 @04:01PM (#18480809)
    * Animated PNG (APNG) images are now supported.
    * The DOM clientLeft and clientTop attributes are now supported.
    * Introduced support for , which puts resources into the browser's offline cache. This allows a web application to ensure that its resources are available in the cache when the browser goes into offline mode. See * * * Marking Resources for Offline Use for further details on offline support.
    * Improved precision of layout and scaling across a wide range of screen and printer resolutions.
    * Implemented cycle collection in XPCOM, which detects cases where two released objects hold one another, but neither is held by anyone else. In this scenario, both objects can safely be purged. Previously, the holds each has on the other would have prevented them from being purged.
    * Added support for the HttpOnly cookie attribute, which marks a cookie as readable only by the server and not by client-side scripts.
    * Added a new preference, "Warn me when web sites try to redirect or reload the page", which notifies the user when the page specifies HTTP-EQUIV=refresh.
    * Windows 95, Windows NT 4, Windows 98, and Windows ME are not supported for Gecko 1.9.
    * OS X 10.2 is no longer supported, and OS X 10.3.9 or better is required.
    * The non-standard JavaScript Script object is no longer supported.
    * Moving DOM nodes between documents now requires a call to importNode or adoptNode as per the DOM specification.


    It's kind of sketchy that they're not supporting older Windows or OS X versions, but I don't think that's a huge deal. I wish they'd reintroduced MNG instead of APNG (purely a personal preference; APNG is probably actually a better way of doing it), and any fixes to JavaScript are nice to have.
    • It's kind of sketchy that they're not supporting older Windows or OS X versions

      At a certain point, this sort of decision has to be made: Move forward, or live in the past. The technical issues that surround supporting old systems verses moving forward with more elegant solutions for modern systems.

      But what I don't understand is why they continue to insist that there are no memory usage issues when there is a lot of practical evidence that there are?

      • by bunratty (545641)

        they continue to insist that there are no memory usage issues when there is a lot of practical evidence that there are?

        Where do "they continue to insist that there are no memory usage issues" and where do you find "a lot of practical evidence that there are"? I find that Firefox does have some memory leaks, and they are being fully acknowledged by the developers. Do you think there are some memory leak reports that are being ignored? If so, you should be far more specific about what these are.

    • by mhall119 (1035984) on Sunday March 25, 2007 @04:24PM (#18480961) Homepage Journal
      It doesn't support older Windows because it uses Cairo [cairographics.org] for faster rendering, which I've read doesn't support older Windows versions. I'm not sure if it's the same reason older versions of OS X are not supported.
      • by Dh2000 (71834)
        funny thing is, cairo is dog slow
        • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

          by atamido (1020905)
          Cairo is not a speed demon, but it has been getting noticeably faster with ever release that they've made. It may be slower than what Firefox is currently using, but it's also a lot more useful. Their current Gecko rendering engine doesn't have the capability to do the things that they want to do, without a significant rewrite. So in this sense Cairo will add a ton of ability, fix a lot of memory leaks, and probably be at least as fast in a few releases. They will also gain time from all of the developer
          • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

            by mhall119 (1035984)
            Right, I think Cairo is being used specifically because it would allow Firefox to finally add features like full page zoom (no just text resizing) that has been available in other browsers for a while now. It should also improve page printing.
    • > It's kind of sketchy that they're not supporting older Windows or OS X versions

      There is a reason for this. The changes they have made to the core won't work with older versions of Windows as easily as they do with more modern versions. This means that a lot of work would be need to add support for them. But it has been said that if anyone is interested doing the job, he/she is quite welcome to do it.
    • Bug! (Score:4, Interesting)

      by Zarel (900479) on Sunday March 25, 2007 @05:49PM (#18481539)
      I had a feeling the rendering engine improvements would break something. The Quick Contacts list of GMail with Chat has a huge space on the bottom that increases each time you hover over a user. I wonder if it's a rendering engine bug or a GMail bug.
    • by G-funk (22712)
      Does it support inline-block yet FFS?
    • by Ant P. (974313)
      I couldn't care less about having another format for obnoxious animated ads, TBQH. What really pisses me off is that an actual useful format [wikipedia.org] got killed off for BS political reasons.
  • Not a gecko release (Score:5, Informative)

    by El_Muerte_TDS (592157) <{elmuerte} {at} {drunksnipers.com}> on Sunday March 25, 2007 @04:08PM (#18480845) Homepage
    It's an alpha release of Firefox 3, it uses the Gecko 1.9 engine.
    • by jesser (77961)
      Since it contains a lot of changes to Gecko but very few changes to the Firefox UI, I think it makes more sense to call it a "Gecko 1.9 alpha" than a "Firefox 3 alpha".
  • ACID 2 Compliance (Score:5, Informative)

    by nahdude812 (88157) * on Sunday March 25, 2007 @04:11PM (#18480855) Homepage
    Yes, it does completely pass the Acid 2 [webstandards.org] CSS compliance test.
    • by jez9999 (618189)
      Aaaaactally, the nose on GPA3 appears 1px too far to the right and to the bottom. ;-P
  • What? (Score:5, Funny)

    by mboverload (657893) on Sunday March 25, 2007 @04:23PM (#18480957) Journal
    WTF? Where did the cars go?
  • On OSX, Gran Paradiso Alpha 3 had an annoying habit of flashing a white screen before redrawing a page. To test this, just go to http://www.mozilla.org/products/ [mozilla.org] and click from tab to tab.

    One can only hope that this won't occur in the release versions, because it is really quite annoying.

    • by Seumas (6865) on Sunday March 25, 2007 @04:36PM (#18481041)
      That's a feature, dude. The white screen in between page loads is where the government flashes the subliminal commands, instructing you to consume, worship and be content.
    • by jesser (77961)
      I think this is bug 361600. I agree that it's annoying, and it looks like it will be fixed in time for Firefox 3.

      It's even more annoying in debug builds ;)
  • I was looking at the mozilla wiki and I couldn't find a release schedule for Gecko 1.9 / Firefox 3. Does it exist somewhere? I read allusion to like March and then to the end of the year. I guess if we are still in Alpha, its more like Q3/Q4 ?

    I tried recent nightly builds, and I really liked what I saw on the painting front. I hope we can get a stabilized release soon.
  • Is there a way to run both firefox and Paradiso without affeting firefox settings and extensions etc ?
    • I keep a separate user account for this sort of thing. Not exactly convenient though.

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by obender (546976)

      Is there a way to run both firefox and Paradiso without affecting firefox settings and extensions etc ?

      Unzip firefox in a separate directory, for example c:\beta\firefox, make an extra directory for profiles and start firefox with the -profile option:

      set MOZ_NO_REMOTE=1
      c:\beta\firefox\firefox.exe -profile c:\beta\profile

      The MOZ_NO_REMOTE variable will prevent it from connecting to another running instance of Firefox. All the settings are stored in the profile directory so it will leave the regular installation alone.

    • by jginspace (678908)
      "Is there a way to run both firefox and Paradiso without affeting firefox settings and extensions etc ?"

      First of all I recommend you create a new profile for V3 (Gran Paradiso). After that it's possible to run new instances of Firefox from a batch file with the contents:

      set MOZ_NO_REMOTE=1
      firefox -P
  • by chrysalis (50680) on Sunday March 25, 2007 @06:18PM (#18481743) Homepage
    For OSX users, Gran Paradiso is a huge improvement over previous Firefox versions. It's way faster, and it feels as fast as Safari. While there are still some bugs especially with forms, this is definitely something OSX users should try.
    • by dr.badass (25287)
      For OSX users, Gran Paradiso is a huge improvement over previous Firefox versions. It's way faster, and it feels as fast as Safari.

      If it looks like Firefox, acts like Firefox, but is as fast as Safari -- it's still Firefox. Fuck that.
      • by jrockway (229604)
        Yeah, I hate visiting sites and seeing them render properly! That really sucks! Fuck firefox!
        • by dr.badass (25287)
          Yeah, I hate visiting sites and seeing them render properly!

          Where did I say anything about rendering? As far as I can tell, Safari/WebKit and Firefox/Gecko are both more or less accurate. Safari passed Acid2 back in 2005, while Firefox is just now getting there. Besides, if I wanted to run a Gecko browser, I'd run Camino over Firefox, because it doesn't feel like a bad port from Windows.
    • by hritcu (871613)
      Once it's stable sure. Most people feel absolutely no need to be on the bleeding edge.
  • by cyba (25058) on Sunday March 25, 2007 @07:02PM (#18482039) Homepage
    There's only single "Linux" download link that refers to Linux/x86 binary. If leading Free Software project doesn't treat non-x86 platforms seriously, how can we expect something different from e.g. hardware manufacturers?
    • Anybody running Linux on a non-x86 box will know how to install from a distro's repositories. The same can no longer be said for Linux on x86, because of people installing ubuntu on their grnadmother's computer, etc. However, in this case it really doesn't matter. This is alpha software. If you are messing with it, you should know how to compile it yourself. It is not really worth Mozilla's time to acquire obsolete non-x86 desktop hardware for building nightlies and alpha releases.

      I find your comment about
    • Free Software in the FSF's terms doesn't ship with any binaries at all. You got the source code, compile it yourself. Personally I think it's a bit much to expect builds for every platform out there from an alpha release.

      how can we expect something different from e.g. hardware manufacturers?

      Nobody wants binaries from hardware manufacturers. I think most Linux devs would be over the moon if the manufacturers released only source code for non-x86 (or even x86).

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