Survey Finds Few Intend to Upgrade to Vista 429
thefickler writes "A recent Harris Poll has found that while most online computers users are aware of Microsoft's Windows Vista, few are intending to switch over to the new operating system anytime soon. The Harris Poll of 2223 US online adults in early March found that 87% were aware of Vista. Unfortunately for Microsoft, only 12% of Vista-aware respondents were intending to upgrade to Vista in the next 12 months."
Early Adoptor == Burned (Score:5, Interesting)
Alas, where I work we will be enthusiastically embracing Vista. My supervisor was very upbeat when she
told me I would be getting a new computer loaded with Vista and that I needed to familiarise myself with it
because everyone else would be getting Vista, too.
I'm an old school computer guy. I don't "upgrade" until I have to or there is sufficient benefit to be
gained. I learned this from a crafty old fellow who felt so, after being burned several times.
As to why, I see Vista as little more than a ploy to hold market share and gain some profits, as the existing
XP profit cycle has likely flattened. There will be a few bells and whistles, but the security aspect tells me they know
less about writing operating systems than their predecessors of 30 years ago. I think they still just don't get it. I also feel it's been rushed.
After all these years Windows is still a big mysterious black box, wherein things happen of which we know little and therefore
have little say in behaviour of or control over.
Besides, I've always been a fan of having the actual code at my finger tips.
Re:Early Adoptor == Burned (Score:5, Insightful)
Truthfully, I don't want Vista on the computer. However, I wonder how many other people find themselves in this predicament of basically being forced to pay Microsoft twice?
Re:Early Adoptor == Burned (Score:5, Informative)
Re:Early Adoptor == Burned (Score:5, Funny)
Ever heard of BitTorrent?
Actually.... (Score:4, Informative)
A Vista license allows you to "downgrade".
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Does the EULA define what a downgrade is? Just wondering.
Re:Actually.... (Score:4, Funny)
A Vista license is a downgrade.
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If someone buys a complete package machine, they should be able to choose what operating system it runs. Forcing them to pay for something they don't want justifies the piracy, IMHO. Give them the option, then come riding in on your high horse. Otherwise, quit bitching; you got your money.
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Um... hello?
You can buy new computers without an operating system. I did it last week.
If you don't want to buy a new computer with vista, don't buy a new computer with vista! Get one without vista! They exist!
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Go into one of the consumer markets (you know, the ones where the average sales person doesn't know a laptop from a programmable refrigerator) and try, just try, to get a computer without an OS.
That's unfortunately the place most consumers (the people who'd be qualified to work there 'caus they can't tell the difference either) go. They don't go to computer vendors, they often don't even know they exist.
And that's how Vista is being sold.
Re:Early Adoptor == Burned (Score:4, Insightful)
I think that if people don't care that they are being forced to buy Vista and if they can't be bothered to seek out alternatives then there is no problem with all the places where they are likely to shop taking advantage of that. So long as the rest of us can excercise our own choices to not have any particular operating system thrust upon us, which we can, then all is well.
Re:Early Adoptor == Burned (Score:5, Insightful)
There isn't much of a need to pay for XP if you've bought vista. Consider if a trade. Buy Vista (which is Windows tax with the new laptop) -- chuck it -- download XP and use that. Vista probably costs more than XP, so in fact Microsoft profited.
It's not like he's going to buy the vista/laptop, THEN download XP and use it on a 2nd computer.
I use to pirate Windows, but then I started using Linux primarily. Now I am legit I suppose. Although I did purchase a laptop loaded with XP, and I haven't bothered installing Linux on it.
No need to pirate (Score:4, Informative)
Re:Early Adoptor == Burned (Score:4, Insightful)
Re:Early Adoptor == Burned (Score:4, Insightful)
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Parent post is not funny, it's insightful. Few weeks ago Microsoft exec Jeff Raikes was quoted "If they're going to pirate somebody, we want it to be us rather than somebody else". Information Week covered this. http://www.informationweek.com/shared/printableArt icle.jhtml?articleID=198000211 [informationweek.com]
Re:Early Adoptor == Burned (Score:4, Informative)
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switching (Score:4, Interesting)
Well, I won't pay Microsoft any money until they stop treating their customers like criminals
I am a Windows user however for this reason, Microsoft treating it's customers like criminals, I am switching. For my desktop I got a PC with Linux preinstalled and for a laptop I plan on getting a Macbook Pro. Not unless and until MS gets rid of Activation and WGA/WPA will I willingly buy either a PC with Windows installed or Windows on disk in a box. I see no reason I should even need Windows again, other than what I am already using, but if there's any software I need but for which there are not versions for Linux and/or Macs, I looked and found none that does not run on either, then I will use Crossover/WINE to run them in.
FalconRe: (Score:3, Informative)
Imagine how well Windows would have succeeded if win3.x came with WGA.
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1. Buy off-lease.
2. Buy a Mac. You can dual boot with Windows or use Parallels or VMWare.
3. Buy a laptop preloaded [emperorlinux.com] with Linux. You can dual boot with Windows or use VMWare (VMWare Server is great for running Windows under Linux).
There's also a forth if you don't care if it's not legal:
4. Use an activation crack. There is a really good open source one that always works and gets past all validation checks.
For the second two, you could just pick up a copy of XP and stick on on. With
Open source crack? Interesting. (Score:3, Informative)
Cracking groups always seemed very -- at some points almost comically -- secretive about their source code and method of exploits; I'd sooner expect a crack dealer to give you the name of his wholesaler than for a cracker to distribute source.
Kinda makes me wonder if perhaps the number of trojans disguised as cracks [apcmag.com] have been t
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If the univ
Re:Early Adoptor == Burned (Score:5, Insightful)
So Dell is willing to call such a machine 'Vista-capable', and Microsoft was willing to certify it as such. What the hell do I want with an os that does nothing but boot? Dell and Microsoft conspired to screw us both: Dell wanted to unload low-end overstock hardware, MS wanted to limit the availability of pre-installed XP to boost Vista's numbers. Not everyone wants a gamer machine -- if I buy a low-end box that is 'Vista capable', I shouldn't end up feeling like a fraud victim.
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Really come on getting upset with your Dell purchase is like getting upset for getting crapy food and service from a fast food joint.
Buying anything that is "XXX Capable" is just opening up yourself to disappointment. I learned that with my purchase of Dolby 5.1 "ready" surround sound powered speakers ten years ago that were anything but ready .
That is why I didn't by an "HD ready" TV or "802.11n compatable wireless router" and many other transitional technolo
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Re:Early Adoptor == Burned (Score:5, Insightful)
granted most of thses "improvements" have been in unix since the 70's but still, at least they exist.
vista is no more than windowblinds+truecrypt except not as good as either
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Which sucks, since I would love mine to come with FreeDOS (their version of No OS) but,
unfortunately, they (HP) only offer it on low end systems (Celeron/Sempron), and I'm getting a X2.
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The XP market is the same as Vista. New computers.
Sothe OS itself isn't making more money then XP, but the additional cost of it will be the money maker.
Personal, it is way above my price point to get what I want.
Fortunatly for me, where I work has said no vista in ANY enviroment for 2 years.
We are smart enough to know what happens to early adopters.
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Not too realistic when you are comparing the security of software from 30 years ago (in a much different environment) to a global commercialized network with millions of computers being used by your Mother, Father, Grandparents, Etc..
After all these years Windows is still a big mysterious black box, wherein things happen of which we know little and t
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Heh - that's why I have more than one machine @ the desk... one to 'test and familiarize' on, and one (Linux-based) upon which all the actual work gets done.
Windows 98 (Score:2, Funny)
Re:Early Adoptor == Burned (Score:5, Funny)
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I wonder if you are still using wood #2 pencils since there is no "real benefit" to those new fangled plastic and metal mechanical pencils.
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A lot of mechanical pencils do indeed break their lead too easily. They're poorly designed; if the tip tube is long enough and narrow enough, and the space between the feed and the start of the tip tube short enough, the lead doesn't flex enough to snap. Also, don't press so hard. I wish more were better designed but I've used well-built pencils wh
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ORLY? (Score:5, Informative)
Unfortunately for Microsoft, only 12% of Vista-aware respondents were intending to upgrade to Vista in the next 12 months.
fortunately for Microsoft, the OEMs provide good business.
Re:ORLY? (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:ORLY? (Score:4, Interesting)
1) Do you plan to upgrade to Vista?
2) If so, how do you plan to upgrade?
1) Do you plan to buy a new computer?
2) If so, which manufacturer do you plan to buy from?
The phrasing of the article (focusing on "Vista-aware respondents") indicates that the numbers aren't a good indication of how many people will actually be upgrading. Tons of people who don't know about Vista will definitely be upgrading, whether they plan to or not.
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Is that a fact or did you imagine it just now? So what you're saying is that you have the pulse of several hundreds of millions of Windows users. Correct? And they don't want Vista. Correct? Can you show us some data to back this up?
How do you figure? I'm a little fuzzy on how this
Re:ORLY? (Score:5, Interesting)
System Initial Question/Comment: Is it possible to get a laptop with XP or no OS?
System You are now being connected to an agent. Thank you for using Dell Chat
System Connected with ATG Anibal
ATG Anibal Thank you for contacting the Dell Employee and Student Purchase Program. My name is Anibal, I will be your personal assistant today. I will be glad to assist you with your questions.
ATG Anibal To be sure that I can further assist you, may I have the name of the company or institution that you work for?
Me
ATG Anibal Yes , those are latitude notebooks. Those are the ones that will give you xp as an option
Me Alright... can I get no OS?
ATG Anibal No, is not an option.
Me So, just so I understand what you're saying. If I want to buy a Dell Laptop I also must buy Windows with it?
ATG Anibal That is correct
Me And if I want to buy an Inspiron laptop, I also must buy Vista?
ATG Anibal That is correct, unless you go with latitude notebooks
Me Thank you for your help.
"Is not an option" was my favorite part. YA RLY
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No, Windows has become a product that 99% of its users have no expectation of improvement. There are plenty of visionary computer users who are frustrated with the sluggishness of OS (and office) innovation, but are powerless in the face of the MS monopoly.
The lack of interest in Vista reflects st
Re:ORLY? (Score:5, Informative)
Of the people I've talked computers with and who are aware of Linux, the common responses are:
1. Application lock in.
2. Format lock in.
3. FUD (many varieties of misinformation).
4. Unfamiliar UI.
5. Not sufficiently better/different (can't be bothered).
6. Lack of peer support (asking mates how to fix something).
7. Lack of hardware vendor support. (Sorry, I don't care if there's smoke coming from your peripheral. We won't help because you're using an unsupported OS).
My crowd's not particularly computer geeky (film/video and engineering, mostly), so it's not a huge sample size though.
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Period.
Average Joe shops at BestBuy, Walmart, or Circuit City. Average Joe will, 90% of the time, purchase a Windows Vista computer, unless he happens to live near an Apple Store or choose to shop online. And most likely (85+% of the time) Average Joe will purchase a Windows Vista computer online.
Now, having said that, I find that if you evaluate "power user
I just switched... BACK (Score:3, Insightful)
-Aero is a joke. The ~5 mm glassy effect (which does not improve productivity at all) comes at a way too hefty performance-cost.
-Vista dumbs the user way too down.
Example of an everyday-task gone wrong: When using a laptop and traveling much, my ip-adress will often fluctuate. To show my IP-adress under XP, i doubleclick on the connection-icon in the systray and change to the second tab. Under Vista, i doubleclick the connection-icon and end up in the Connection-Center. From there, i have to choose the common Task to manage connections. There i have to rightclick on the connection and click on properties. THERE i have to click on the advanced-button.
- The driver-situation is embarassing.
-SSH dynamic port forwarding does not work under Vista (used putty and plink; neither did work)
What i really liked in Vista was the combined search/run-field in the startmenu. But i can live happily without it when the rest of my system behaves.
Re:I just switched... BACK (Score:4, Informative)
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But I haven't looked. It will be 2 years before I need to get familiar with Vista.
Re:I just switched... BACK (Score:5, Insightful)
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1. On the Start Menu, right-click on Network and click Properties (2 clicks)
2. A Network and Sharing Center window will open. Click View status to the right of Local Area Connection. (1 click)
3. In the new Local Area Connection Status window that opens, click Details. Your IP Address will be listed among the other connection details. (1 click)
(that would be 4 clicks)
In XP, you can right click on your network i
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FYI
Type this in the search box from the Vista menu:
cmd /k ipconfig
Once it's there, you will have it in your command history. Much faster then clicking the menus and tabs you mention. This is an example of a feature in Vista that is a big improvement over XP.
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Ignoring the "search box" part, I think the OP point was about the organisation, layout and general obtuseness of the menuing system. Which is what typical users are familiar with and expected to use.
Running ipconfig, desk.cpl, compmgmt.msc, etc. directly is always easier, faster, and more efficient, but that's what those Linux nerds do, right? Besides, I'm not sure about Vista, but the menu entry for cmd.exe is typically buried in with the Accessories l
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> But i can live happily without it when the rest of my system behaves.
You can use Google Desktop Search (is like Google for your desktop just Google after it to download) just fine in XP. I bet it indexes and searches better than Vista stuff. It is also very confident to launch apps with it. I just can't understand what is with the fucking start Menu anyway. They should get panels in Windows like dock in OSX or panel in
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Fixed (was Re:I just switched... BACK) (Score:3, Insightful)
-Those ugly Theme things hog way too much CPU.
-XP dumbs the user way too down.
- The driver-situation is embarassing.
What i really liked in Vista was the smart icon arrangement in the startmenu. But i can live happily without it when the rest of my system behaves.
Fixed. It's just like Windows XP all over again.
Another 5 years and everyone will be bitching about the switch to Windo
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Re:I just switched... BACK (Score:5, Informative)
My IP [live.com] -- "a compact gadget to display your current IP address"
Alternatively:
Wireless Network Controller [live.com] -- "a gadget to display your wireless network's current status and details. The gadget displays the SSID and Signal Strength; click on the SSID to open the Details flyout for all the network details such as Signal Quality, Security Status and IP Address."
Another alternative [live.com]; And another [live.com], etc. [codeproject.com].
Re:I just switched... BACK (Score:4, Informative)
Alternatively, if you want it to work like Dashboard (i.e. gadgets appear temporarily over the top of your current applications), the shortcut is winkey+space, which brings the sidebar and any desktop gadgets to the front (and in focus), from where you can use winkey+g to cycle through them.
In fact, if you hide the sidebar altogether and just use desktop gadgets, and use winkey+space to bring them to the front when necessary, you can pretty much exactly emulate the functionality of Dashboard.
BTW, For what it's worth, the first version of MacOS to have gadgets was released in April 2005. The initial release of Konfabulator was in February 2003 (November 2004 for the Windows version). Windows Sidebar, meanwhile, was demonstrated as a Microsoft Research project called Sideshow in the summer of 2000 and first turned up in a public Longhorn build in September 2002, 5 months before Konfabulator and over 2 1/2 years before MacOS 10.4.
But then, BeOS had widgets way back in... er, whenever-it-was; certainly way before 2000.
Come to think of it, BeOS also apparently had Spotlight/Vista-style instant search [slashdot.org] a good 10 years before Spotlight and Vista.
So -- everything's ripping of BeOS?
Meh.
Wow!! (Score:3, Funny)
Cost (Score:2)
Driver Issues + Hardware Requirements = Bad (Score:2)
The other thing is the well publicized driver issues
You don't say... (Score:2, Funny)
In other news (Score:2, Interesting)
News at 11.
Upgrade is not MS game (Score:4, Informative)
What is is (Score:2, Interesting)
A lean and mean OS that ran in 64 bits, had good driver support, could make DVD movies, supported Directx 10, and NO DAMN PRODUCT ACTIVATION!
What it is:
A bloated and ponderous mess that still can't make DVD movies, tries to support more of Microsoft's proprietary formats, focuses more on eye candy than performance, and has even worse DRM and activation rules. Maybe when Halo 2 comes out we'll rush out and buy Vista just so we can play a game that's been on consoles for over a year....or just
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The only thing that eats into "performance" is that it actually want you to have a 3d video c
yeah right (Score:2)
Second, there's the fact the IT people with a new OS are comparable to monkeys with a box of razor blades. Everywhere I go people tell me that they have no plans to go to Vista, unless Microsoft is strong-arming them into it... but these same people have it on their own desktops, and are griping about problems and gushing about cool features.
Official policy will have Vista rollou
Luckily I have a sane boss (Score:2, Informative)
In fact, given the chance, we'll probably start migrating to some form of Linux within 6-9 months. If only we had a well-functioning* alternative for Exchange/Outlook available...
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Survey says (Score:2, Interesting)
Mod Parent Up! (Score:2)
Of course this still does not mean that anything will change, nor does it mean future computer purchases and upgrades will guarantee microsoft its current market share in the future.
If anything, I hope this is that 'clue-in' year we've all been waiting for as a turning point. Seems companies are finding it harder and harder to obfuscate their products and servic
XP all over again (Score:2, Insightful)
That's how Microsoft pushes out the vast majority of licenses. Not through the retail channel.
This is nothing new, except for the constant "Vista is teh sux" drumbeat.
What's old is new? (Score:2, Insightful)
I have until 2010 to upgrade (Score:5, Insightful)
irrelevant (Score:4, Insightful)
And this likely does not matter to MS. From some estimates I have seen, MS makes 80% of it's money from license only deals, and most growth comes from OEM sales. Therefore, MS seems to be most concerned with keeping the OEM in line, doing whatever is necessary to keep the desktop monopoly.
In any case,here are the facts as I see them. MS sold millions of copies of MS Vista even before the product was publicly released. Many were already sold through the commercial licensing program. I seem to recall that every one of those contracts were an implicit sale for MS Vista, which is why MS had to get out the OS, at least to corporate, by december. In addition, many machines that have been shipping since December are also an implicit sale of MS Vista, not to mention most machines that are now shipping.
I suspect that the retail software channels are kept awake at night figuring out how to convince the unwitting MS consumer that MS Vista "slim" edition is superior to MS Windows XP, but I doubt seriously many higher ups at MS are.
the great philosopher asked... (Score:5, Funny)
Re:the great philosopher asked... (Score:4, Interesting)
I hope that this current situation actually does translate to lower new pc sales for the big name manufacturers, giving them pause to think about shipping with GNU/Linux or no OS at all, and do so at an equitable cost structure. Equitable cost structure is one where computers are cheaper without software pre-installed. Yes, I know that this is problematic because of the licensing deals the manufacturers are currently stuck with in order to even supply Windows at a good price.
It's not really an upgrade (Score:2)
Nobody ever "intends" to upgrade (Score:2)
Who Cares? (Score:2)
200 million plus new computers will be sold with Vista. So I repeat myself: who cares about the upgraders? In time they will likely have no choice unless they want to move to OS X or linux, both of which I categorize as unlikely.
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She could get a refund, and put XP on it.
SO she had choices, she just doesn't care.
the WOW starts now lol (Score:5, Funny)
WOW nothing works no more!
WOW it wont let me playing this media because of DRM
WOW my entire system has stoped working because it thinks im a pirate
WOW i no longer control my pc it controls me.
WOW i have to pay for this?
I was an XP early adopter (Score:2, Interesting)
Funny! Best Buy and Circuit City (Score:2)
In fact Circuit City could not keep up with the demand.
Ask MS the same question: Hardware is the problem. (Score:2)
Sure, but also ask the question, What proportion of PC's (hardware) out there would actually run Vista well, and I'll bet even MS would admit that it is also low numbers, maybe 20%. So for someone who is truly "Vista aware", they would know that their current PC would not support Vista well... so its not really a fair question.
Ask instead, What proportion of Vista-aware users intend to U
It's all about the spin baby... (Score:4, Insightful)
"In other news, a recent survey says that over 10% of all adult computer users are intending to switch to the new Microsoft 'Vista' operating system. This is great news for the software giant, as it indicates that Vista is being embraced by more than the 'early adopter' crowd.
Amazing how different that sounds, eh?
Err, forgot where I was, sorry. I mean "M$ sucks. Boo. Boo-urns..."
I know some russians that wont be upgrading soon (Score:3, Interesting)
"Russian schools in the area are so scared about being shipped
off to a Siberian Gulag, that they are buying Linux gear instead."
http://www.secguru.com/link/russian_schools_to_sw
Too much negative hype (Score:4, Insightful)
Let's look at the facts:
1. For all intents and purposes it's a Windows XP + stuff. aka a glorified service pack.
2. Quite obviously it will displace XP in corporations, educational institutions and home with time.
3. Unless you're using domain logons, It is MUCH MUCH MUCH MORE SECURE than XP because UAC is on by default, palatable to power users (I've been working with it for several weeks now, it's ok) and teachable to non-tech users. Overall, it's worked out much better than you could have done on XP. It is not OpenBSD and shouldn't be compared to it, it is probably less secure than Gentoo with KDE. Nevertheless, compared with XP's work-as-root model, it's worlds apart. I'm not suggesting it's either bulletproof, bugless, unexploitable or mature. But A security model, ANY security model, is better than XP's *NO* security model.
4. Laugh at UI all you like, but a good UI is something everyone can use to get more done. Both joe averages and powerusers alike. Vista's UI serves as a welcome improvement over XP IMHO. I'm talking about useability improvements ala sidebar, "open containing folder" stuff etc, not eye-candy a-la aero which I frankly couldn't less.
5. It guzzles 700MB RAM on neutral right after loading. Who gives a flying fuck? My kde desktop at work eats 200MB. the number is *meaningless* unless it indicates, say, an excessive overpricing of the machine. is 200MB a lot? 10 years ago, we'd have all said it was. Does that make my gentoo/KDE desktop bloated crap today? no. On the same coin, when 1GB of RAM is next to free, 700MB is just another meaningless number.
1GB of DDR2 lappie ram costs 70US$ on ebay. Sure, if you have a P3, run XP. But if you run any form of hardware bought anywhere in the last 5 years, plug some RAM and you're good to go.
6. Microsoft will stop selling and supporting XP at some point anyway. So it's not like Vista will be some doomed stop-gap measure until something significantly better comes along, like Windows ME was. Vista is here to stay for the next 5 or so years until another "service pack" along the same lines appears.
7. If whatever DRM is built into the system prevents you from doing what you're used to do with a computer, use Linux.
Case in point:
If you're screaming "Vista's shit!" and have an old computer with XP you don't want to spend more money on, you're likely making the right call, but are an idiot for screaming out the shit bit. I have a 2005 Toyota echo and screaming how the 2007 model is shit because I don't need it (having the 2005 one) would make me the same kind of idiot.
If you're screaming "Vista's shit!" and you're using Linux/MacOS, you're either a clueless fanboy or someone who's tested both ends and can draw up pros and cons of each and stake a legitimate fact-based preference.
If you're screaming "Vista's shit!" and thinking you'd rather be getting XP with a new computer, you're a total clueless idiot. Especially if your spiel contains the word "security" in it.
Vista is a welcome improvement on XP. Give it some time to mature, give IT departments time to evaluate and learn to work it, it'll be ok.
Is it worth upgrading from XP? depends. Depends if you value a better security model (and eye candy). I've serviced many people with many malware computer problems who paid me lots of good money to fix said problems. Wild guess says a security model for them will pay for itself, from the money it costs them to periodically fix their shit. Locks tend to be cheaper than periodically re-outfitting a robbed house, and people tend to be able to do math when it's their money.
That's why they call it version 1-point-uh-oh... (Score:3)
When Windows 3.1 and VB 3.0 came out, it was a lot more stable. We started the migration in earnest. We soon had a halfway-decent system developed on Windows 3.1. Of course, that's when Windows 95 arrived, and I wondered what would possess anyone to switch to that, because Windows 3.1 (Sorry, now 3.11 for Workgroups) seemed to do everything that we could think of.
After a couple of service packs had been made available, the owner had us start building for Windows 95. I griped, moaned, and complained - why bother? What did Windows 95 offer that was any better?
We repeated the process for Windows 98 and XP. I didn't want to migrate - it was going to be a pain in the backside, the benefits were not apparent compared to the effort, and we waited until a couple of service packs came out and the bugs got shaken out.
Now, had it not been for the early adopters who voted with their cash for the new systems, and then beefed unceasingly until the first bugs did get remedied, we wouldn't have been able to do this. Still and all, most businesses are not known for being early adopters if they have an existing investment in their code base to try to wring more money out of.
This is not a blast at Microsoft. This happens with all operating systems, even Linux. I have a dual-boot laptop that I will upgrade to Vista only when the proverbial gun is at my head, but that isn't because I loathe Microsoft (I don't); it's because I don't see how the changes in the OS will benefit me.
Of course, after Vista has had a year or two to get some of these early issues resolved, it may be less painful than it seems to be now. But this isn't meant as MS-bashing - just as an indictment of the "jump on the brand new system NOW" syndrome that marketers encourage.
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Re:What does it offer? (Score:5, Insightful)
Maybe it doesn't offer you anything. That's fine. Don't assume that's the case for everyone else.
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