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Vista Sales Strong, Higher Than Expected 394

Posted by Zonk
from the so-it-begins dept.
An anonymous reader writes "Despite reports, it seems Microsoft is not only alive, but has been thriving these last few months. Following Apple's solid earnings yesterday comes above-expectation reporting from Microsoft. Profits jumped 65% from the previous year, and sales of its Windows operating system were strong: 'Microsoft said it deferred $1.2 billion in Windows Vista revenue to the third quarter, to account for upgrade coupons given to PC buyers during the holiday season before the consumer launch of the new operating system. Excluding this figure, client revenue totaled $4.1 billion, 30 percent higher than last year.' Microsoft Chief Financial Officer Chris Liddell said Vista beat internal forecasts by $300 million to $400 million, and Office 2007 sales were $200 million better than expected."
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Vista Sales Strong, Higher Than Expected

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  • Well it figures (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Chris whatever (980992) on Friday April 27, 2007 @07:35AM (#18898765)
    it figures that sales are higher than last year, XP is not new and is installed mostly everywhere,,,Vista aint, so if we compare growth and sales Vista will surpass sales for Xp since most of every windows users already own a copy of XP and dont need to purchase it every 6 month
    • by Marcion (876801) on Friday April 27, 2007 @08:00AM (#18899015) Homepage Journal
      Counting Coupons according to when they are redeemed is a way to spread out the data. It's a big game, no one outside of Microsoft really knows the real numbers, otherwise the shareholders would demand serious restructuring (kill Xbox, Zune, become MS Office company, return cash pile to shareholders, produce more Mac software etc).
      • by arse maker (1058608) on Friday April 27, 2007 @10:34AM (#18901121)
        Yes, if that means shareholders are short sighted idiots. With software the target is always moving, you have open office gaining traction and Linux gaining traction. Microsoft has something big... it's a 60 billion+ war chest... it's time to find more things to do. While Microsoft aren't the nicest company around (well what big companies are, anyone like their insurance company?) they are good at doing something well as long as they want to. It's in their interest to diversify and try to secure their future. Hell that's what IBM did, the largest revenue company in the world (last time I checked anyhow). They started their consultant business and that is now their most profitable department. Standing still is the death rattle of a company. Once you don't expand you get taken over... as a developer I know its 100x times easier developing an application to compete against an existing application than it is developing it from scratch (another argument against over ambitious patients, they should be there to help, not to hinder simple ideas being used, they need to take into account international conditions, it's not just in the west we are competiting).
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by zippthorne (748122)
        So... what MS shareholders want most is for MS to go out of business?
    • by Skapare (16644) on Friday April 27, 2007 @09:22AM (#18900021) Homepage

      ... and dont need to purchase it every 6 months

      Please don't given them any ideas.

  • No! (Score:5, Funny)

    by MyLongNickName (822545) on Friday April 27, 2007 @07:37AM (#18898783) Journal
    No. It can't be. I've been hearing on Slashdot how Microsoft is a dying company for the past five years. And I believe EVERYTHING I read on Slashdot!
    • Re:No! (Score:5, Insightful)

      by bigman2003 (671309) on Friday April 27, 2007 @07:42AM (#18898829) Homepage
      Not only is Microsoft dying..

      But every other OS that manages to bump up its marketshare more than 3% is the wave of the future, and the only bandwagon you should be on!

      A lot of people seem to think it is harmful to your career to ally oneself with the technology that is still the overwhelming leader in the market. Personally I don't understand that.

      It's kind of like being the the transportation industry, and choosing to specialize in bicycles...economically, it is not a very good plan.
      • Re:No! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by marcello_dl (667940) on Friday April 27, 2007 @07:49AM (#18898905) Homepage Journal
        A lot of people seem to think it is harmful to your career to ally oneself with the technology that is still the overwhelming leader in the market. Personally I don't understand that.

        If you don't understand that I have a fairly comprehensive explanation for you to download.

        In quarkXpress 7 format only.
        • Good point...

          QuarkXpress was competing with the overwhelming market leader in the design/layout space- Adobe.

          Quark is all but forgotten, while Adobe used its position as a market leader to continue to grow and expand. The people on the Quark bandwagon whithered, while those on the Adobe bandwagon continued to thrive.

          • Re:No! (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Jearil (154455) on Friday April 27, 2007 @08:46AM (#18899517) Homepage
            Except back in the mid-late 90's and even into the early 00's, Quark was the standard for design and layout. Adobe had PageMaker, but real professionals used Quark.

            So if you placed all of your important work into the defacto standard of the time, Quark, you'd be a bit behind right now as the industry has mostly moved on. I think what the GP was trying to make a point with, is no companies dominance lasts forever, so try not to tie yourself to heavily to one.
            • That is the reason I mentioned 'the design/layout space'. It should be seen as an industry where things are tied together.

              Quark had one product.

              Adobe had a much larger focus, with PhotoShop, Illustrator AND PageMaker/InDesign, as well as fonts, printing, etc.

              Eventually their herd of elephants ran right over Quark, and they did it with their muscle in the field.

              A single product cannot survive, but dominating an entire field can last much longer.
              • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

                by drinkypoo (153816)
                Speaking from experience I can tell you that this is not what happened. You can use the output of various Adobe programs inside of Quark, that's not the issue. The issue is that Quark went from being light, fast, and reliable to being a gigantic bloated pile of shit in which you couldn't fucking find what you were looking for and if you did the program would probably crash. This has left things open for Adobe to make InDesign into a big turd and STILL control the market, which is why I'm so pissed off at it
        • Re:No! (Score:5, Insightful)

          by e2d2 (115622) on Friday April 27, 2007 @09:04AM (#18899767)
          If you don't understand that I have a fairly comprehensive explanation for you to download.

          Yes but there is a difference between a technology causing harm to the industry and causing harm to you personally. For instance if I'm a developer working on Windows I won't be causing myself any harm. In fact I'd probably be helping myself.

          A lot of "us" windows developers have been programming on it since before it became the "EVIL SATAN" often portrayed here on slashdot and make an excellent living at it. Can I program on Linux? Sure, I do so all the time at home, programming embedded devices and robots and I've released open source software under GPL license. Maybe one day I'll be able to work on them full time. But right now I work on the "Ford" of the industry. It's not unwise and it's not unethical. It's just reality. We deal with the reality of the industry, and that reality is that Windows dominates the market so it makes economic sense to use it.

          I don't align my personal feelings with a technology, it's not wise.

           
          • Re:No! (Score:5, Interesting)

            by WebCowboy (196209) on Friday April 27, 2007 @10:24AM (#18900953)
            A lot of "us" windows developers have been programming on it since before it became the "EVIL SATAN" often portrayed here on slashdot and make an excellent living at it.

            Some of "us" old-timers developed software for CP/M systems...or Apple II or Commodores...and made a good living on it too. Those platforms were all market leaders in the PC realm at one point in time and they all faded away in obsolescence. CP/M was not a Microsoft product and was what powered the vast majority of "open architecture" PCs for most of the first decade of the markets existence. It doesn't matter how big a leader one platform is over another, it does NOT make sense to jump on one wagon and dismiss the others. There is nothing wrong with taking advantage of a leading market position, however far too many people doing that neglect the alternatives. People need to broaden their horizons.

            Can I program on Linux? Sure, I do so all the time at home, programming embedded devices and robots and I've released open source software under GPL license. Maybe one day I'll be able to work on them full time.

            Glad to hear that--especially that you make contributions towards the vast library of Free software out there. That way, you aren't limiting yourself should other opportunities arise in your career. There are already many people making a good living with Free software, and perhaps if (when?) you get bored and/or frustrated with Windows you can seek employment with a company such as IBM or Red Hat or Novell, where thousands of people make a living at computers without windows.

            But right now I work on the "Ford" of the industry. It's not unwise and it's not unethical. It's just reality. We deal with the reality of the industry, and that reality is that Windows dominates the market so it makes economic sense to use it.

            Sometimes it IS unwise, or even unethical, to stick with "the Ford of the industry". Ford USED to be King, and along came this upstart Japanese company Toyota, at a time when "made in Japan" still meant "cheap junk" to many in America. Fast forward to last year, when Ford LOST over a MILLION dollars PER HOUR and Toyota passed them in market share. This would've never happened if people stuck with Ford because it was the market leader. However, people noticed some superior attributes of Toyota products (fuel efficiency, price, reliability) and Toyota improved quickly in area where it was weak (acceleration, corrosion resistance, etc). In the meantime, Ford rode on its established presence and conentrated on sweeoing its problems under the rug instead of actually fixing them (Hello there Pinto!).

            So, in the late 1970s, would've you considered it unwise to buy one of those new Honda Civics instead of a Ford Pinto because Honda was new to the US car market and had a much smaller market share? I'd consider that foolish. I'd rather have bought the Civic and saved on fuel, plus the Civic was somewhat less flammable. Market share be damned...the Civic made more economic sense than a Pinto by far.

            Microsoft really IS like Ford and Windows sure drives like a Pinto, and I've seen it crash...and burn...far too often not to look at alternatives. Apple could enjoy a Toyota like renaissance...or perhaps Red Hat or Novell or some company yet to emerge.

            To hell with Microsoft "Ford Pinto" Windows. I'm looking at "Toyota Corolla" Fedora, "Honda Civic" SuSE and "Subaru" Ubuntu to see what they have to offer.
            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              by e2d2 (115622)
              That was a great argument and I see exactly what you are saying. I do see innovation being introduced in Linux and that makes me happy. I do see Linux surpassing Windows one day, but on that day Microsoft will proclaim Linux the greatest thing ever and reverse course. They are pretty slick. BUT eventually all things come to an end, especially undeserved positions of power. It's one thing to dominate a market on merit, it's another to dominate a market using a monopoly and strong arm tactics. Those tactics a
      • by Kelbear (870538)
        No...no...

        I think it's more like having a bad analogy for a well-undeerstood and exceptional situation that really doesn't need analogies for clarification.

      • Re:No! (Score:4, Insightful)

        by tomstdenis (446163) <tomstdenis@@@gmail...com> on Friday April 27, 2007 @08:00AM (#18899013) Homepage
        I choose not to use Windows because as a developer it's not a useful OS in the slightest. That it costs more than Gentoo, is less standard compliant, and the target of more bugs [regardless of the quality of OSS that is] doesn't help either.

        A lot of people use Windows not by choice but by the virtue of it's what came with their computer and they don't care to investigate alternatives [even if it's to their benefit].

        It's the same reason people eat at fast food joints. It's convenient, around every corner, and seeking out alternatives means they have to do some thinking on their own, which is really scary.

        Tom
        • Re:No! (Score:5, Interesting)

          by WED Fan (911325) <akahigeNO@SPAMtrashmail.net> on Friday April 27, 2007 @08:50AM (#18899583) Homepage Journal

          I choose not to use Windows because as a developer it's not a useful OS in the slightest.

          I choose to use Windows because, as a developer, its the most widely installed OS, and God knows, I love the money that comes rolling in from the users of the most widely installed OS. I develop useful applications and web services that don't require my customers to build and learn a new operating system. I let my customers make the choice. (Psst, I also develop on Linux and provide solutions to those customers that make that choice.)

          In other words, as someone who likes money and lifestyle, who likes eating, who likes playing, who I choose to go where the money is. Idealism is fine. Personal crusades of windmill tilting are fine, Don. But, in the end, they don't put food on the table, they don't pay for the Hummer, they don't allow you to jet to Fiji for a cool vacation.

          I remain flexible, screw idealism and useless and childish OS prejudice.

          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by Maxo-Texas (864189)
            And that's a nice rational decision.
            We make those kind of decisions all the time and there is nothing wrong with it.
            There are probably a lot of windows users who really appreciate that you are a good windows developer.

            As a developer, I'm typing on a windows machine right now tho I create java programs. I'm more of a project leader these days tho (havn't coded in months) and I like it. A fixed body of knowledge to learn and master (like the older programming languages) instead of the constant treadmill of
          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

            by caseih (160668)
            Personally I only program windows when I have to because it is horrible to work with, especially system programming. But having working mostly with Unix, I find the transition to programming for Windows (everything from system to app programming) to be much, much easier than someone trying to transition the other way. I purposely employ good programming practices that keep my code as portable as possible. My full-blown GUI apps run quite easily on any *nix, Mac, or Windows operating system. The effort e
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by daeg (828071)
        I'm sure all of the engineers, factory workers, and shops that center around bicycles would like to disagree with you. I'm sure a lot of the European and Asian countries would also like to disagree with you, given that many of them have higher rates of bikes per capita than vehicles (not so in North America, except for a few cities perhaps). Bad analogy.

        And a lot of people, at least here at Slashdot, make a good living administering Linux, so being knowledgeable about multiple operating systems is a good th
        • by dwater (72834)
          > And a lot of people, at least here at Slashdot, make a good living administering Linux, so being
          > knowledgeable about multiple operating systems is a good thing. If you can make $A administering Windows,
          > and $B administering Red Hat, and $C administering FreeBSD, it stands to reason that if you know Windows,
          > Red Hat, and FreeBSD, your pay, $D, should be $D > ($A, $B, $C). If Red Hat fell out of favor, you still
          > have two other systems you can manage.

          Shouldn't that be A$, B$, C$, and D$
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by countach (534280)
        Well, it's probably better to be in an emerging and growing technology, than a large but shrinking technology. Wages in the former will be on the way up, and in the latter will be in decline due to a growing supply/demand imbalance.
      • Re:No! (Score:5, Insightful)

        by jellomizer (103300) * on Friday April 27, 2007 @08:34AM (#18899365)

        A lot of people seem to think it is harmful to your career to ally oneself with the technology that is still the overwhelming leader in the market. Personally I don't understand that.

        It's kind of like being the the transportation industry, and choosing to specialize in bicycles...economically, it is not a very good plan.


        As someone who makes a living progamming on different Operating Systems Every Day. There is a definate advantage having skills in the non-market leader products.
        First You can charge more. .NET programmers are a dime a dozen. But for a good FORTRAN Developer that will cost more, and can't easilly be replaced. Or someone who can make heads or tails out of an RPG Data File. For many of these people with old systems moving to windows is much to expensive moving to Linux is much better, easier to port old software, current administration skill, etc... So learning different languages and systems is a real bonus. Even if it not and never will be #1. Also as technolgy advances a lot of things that were old become new again. People with knowlege in a wider skill set are much more adaptable to different systems. How many advanced windows users get fustrated just because a Linux distribution decides to put the Minamize, Maxamize, and close button on the other side of the windows. How many Mac Users or Linux Users get confused when working on different systems. The more you know the better you are at each one. Also it helps with administration even if you don't know the systems as well as an expert with you knowelge with other OS's it allows you to ask the right questions. Say I know the SEARCH command on VMS and I do a google search for VMS to Unix commands and I find that grep does the job of SEARCH. Or if I need to do some scripting on windows what I learned from the numerious SH scripts I can put into .BAT files. It really helps. Putting all your eggs into one OS even if it is the most popular one will lead you become obsolute rather fast.
        • Thank you for a well-thought reply. I agree with you that putting all of your eggs in one basket, no matter WHAT that basket is, is a bad idea.

          My initial point was that many people say that Microsoft is a BAD basket to be in. I personally think this is ridiculous. For a very large percentage of the industry it is a GREAT basket to have your eggs in.

          Sure Microsoft's market-share has declined slighly in the recent past. And other OSs have increased slightly. This is not a surprise.

          Because people hated my
    • Re:No! (Score:5, Funny)

      by mattgreen (701203) on Friday April 27, 2007 @07:51AM (#18898941)
      Crap, you beat me to it.

      Luckily, THIS year is the year of Linux on the desktop, however!
    • by Himring (646324)
      Don't let those borg and broken windows icons fool ya. /. reflects stellar objectivity!....

    • by edremy (36408)
      Pffft, noob- I've been hearing that for *10* years, and I still believe it!
    • Re:No! (Score:5, Funny)

      by Yvan256 (722131) on Friday April 27, 2007 @08:18AM (#18899203) Homepage Journal

      I've been hearing on Slashdot how Microsoft is a dying company for the past five years.
      They're just trying to copy Apple again, which has been dying for over 20 years now.

  • Only 30%? (Score:4, Insightful)

    by EchoD (1031614) on Friday April 27, 2007 @07:39AM (#18898809) Homepage
    Revenue is only 30% higher after releasing a new product, and this is higher than expected? I'm no expert, but for a new "revolutionary" product that the whole Windows world is expected to adopt... not so good.
    • Re:Only 30%? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by maxume (22995) on Friday April 27, 2007 @07:48AM (#18898901)
      It's a matter of perspective; that 30% revenue growth is equivalent to all of Google's revenue for the quarter. It's hard to push an elephant.
    • Re:Only 30%? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Rolgar (556636) on Friday April 27, 2007 @08:11AM (#18899133)
      What's the OEM price difference between Vista and XP. If Vista OEM is 50% or more expensive that XP when buying a new computer, then, sure they're getting more money, but they aren't moving any more copies than they were before. This was the whole point of the new OS, to milk more money from the same number of customers.
    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by EchoD (1031614)
      All of this is true, which is why I'm no expert -- as I said. It just seems like a 30% increase after releasing a new, higher priced, product compared to a product that is six years old and already saturating the market isn't too impressive. Yes, 30% for Microsoft is a lot of money, but after the hype they applied to Vista... I'm still not impressed.
    • by Grashnak (1003791)

      Revenue is only 30% higher after releasing a new product, and this is higher than expected? I'm no expert, but for a new "revolutionary" product that the whole Windows world is expected to adopt... not so good.
      Dude, 30% of 4.1 BILLION dollars is more than a BILLION dollars. Vista has only been out for what, 4 months? Exactly what amount of money would constitute "good" in your world?
  • Sketchy figures... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Theaetetus (590071) <theaetetus DOT slashdot AT gmail DOT com> on Friday April 27, 2007 @07:43AM (#18898845) Homepage Journal
    Microsoft said it deferred $1.2 billion in Windows Vista revenue to the third quarter, to account for upgrade coupons given to PC buyers during the holiday season before the consumer launch of the new operating system.

    So are they counting upgrade coupons as full sales? What if they're never used?
    Also, not once do they mention the number of units sold to consumers. Are they including units shipped to stores in their figures, like book publishers do? "We sold 10 million units! 9 million were returned unsold by the stores, however..."

    • by Simon (815) <simon@simonzone. c o m> on Friday April 27, 2007 @07:56AM (#18898975) Homepage
      I agree. It sounds very fishy. It looks like they are counting the combination of XP+coupon as being a Vista sale. I wonder if they also counted it as being XP revenue at the same time? I have a hard time imagining that even 50% of the XP+coupon systems sold before January 30 have been upgraded. Most people are capable or interested in upgrading an OS, and a big chunk of those who are, probably (hopefully!) have common sense to stay with XP.

      --
      Simon
    • If Vista is selling so well, then why don't I know a single person or organisation who's using it?

      This seems like one of those situations where the "official" statistics are wildly at odds with the observations of the guy in the street (or the server room). Of course my experience might not be typical, but looking at the comments in on-line forums full of people with an interest in IT, I'm guessing it is.

    • by bigman2003 (671309) on Friday April 27, 2007 @08:22AM (#18899253) Homepage
      Thank god there are financial analysts here on Slashdot to point out Microsoft's accounting shenanigans.

      Microsoft had the entire financial industry bamboozled, but nothing gets past the wiz-kids here!
      • Microsoft had the entire financial industry bamboozled, but nothing gets past the wiz-kids here!

        To be fair, so did ENRON, WorldCom, LTCM, etc.

    • by topham (32406)
      THe difference is; in general publishers will accept books back. Simply because they have been shipped to book stores doesn't mean the publisher will actually profit from them.

      If Microsoft ships 5 million copies they won't accept them back in bulk.

    • by will_die (586523)
      In your example you are counting sales by units, in this article and what Microsoft is saying is ignoring units and giveing the monies they received, so counting upgrade coupons as full sales is irrelavent. In hte US revenue is the money taken in before costs have been subtracted, if they receive back excess inventory and because of that they had a debt to the store they would of needed to apply that against the gross revenue. Which is why for investors revenue is less important then the profit.
      The $1.2
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by draos (672972)
      That's not how it works. They offered upgrade coupons to PC buyers during the holiday season since the product wasn't out the door yet...essentially those users "bought" Vista in the form of a coupon in the third quarter. So now when they ship a copy of Vista to a coupon holder it is counted as sale made in the third quarter...this is a standard accounting practice that is accepted throughout the business world. They are looking at it, financially, as though they released Vista during the Christmas seas
  • Well, duh. (Score:3, Insightful)

    by KlausBreuer (105581) on Friday April 27, 2007 @07:43AM (#18898849) Homepage
    Obviously they sold a lot of Vista.
    After all, every new PC comes with Vista, if you want it or not (with very few exceptions).
    Thus, sales are up. Since Vista is not all that cheap, profits are up.

    You're surprised?
  • This just reeks of stock manipulation. Hold back your sales figures for an extra quarter, cash in those stock options, and then suddenly announce, 'oh yeah, we had these coupons, so we had to hold back our sales figures.' Then watch your stock price shoot through the roof.

    But, I just looked at their insider trading roster and actually Bill Gates sold off a suspiciously large number of shared in Feb. I wonder why? [yahoo.com]
    • Re: (Score:2, Funny)

      by da_foz (751028)
      He needed the extra cash so that he could afford to upgrade all of his personal computers to Vista...
    • I seem to remember reading somewhere (on Slashdot, in fact) that he regularly sells off lots of shares in order to (amongst other things) prevent speculation and/or distress if he were to sell them off sporadically.
  • by Taimat (944976) on Friday April 27, 2007 @07:45AM (#18898879)
    "Ahhh-Chooo!!!!!! ....excuse me, I'm allergic to bullshit."
    -Will Smith, i-Robot
  • by Anonymous Coward

    We all know that Vista sales will increase and XP sales will fall. We all know that however much Windows idiots say "I'm sticking with XP," it's really not their decision. They'll get Vista with their next computer, and they'll like it, because that's the only choice they'll have. And if not the next computer, certainly the one after that because the hardware won't be supported in XP.

    So can we please stop getting these articles about Vista sales? It doesn't really matter. In 5 years Vista will be j

    • I'm still running Windows 2000. Only hardware that isn't supported without scrounging is Bluetooth - you need to get a card compatible with the Widcomm stack. And sometimes you have to disable the checks for XP in the installer... the drivers still work (kind of like websites checking for Internet Explorer whether they need to or not).
      • Well, in five years ReactOS is hopefully going to be at 1.0. By that point it will be able to install & run MSOffice 2K. That will be the death knell for MS in a lot of small businesses.
    • Should look in the mirror if they're looking for idiots. You don't have to get Vista with your next computer. Did you read about how Dell was pressured by customers to provide XP as a alternate instead of the buggy, DRM laden Vista? Microsoft pressures, companies cave in- customers pressure and companies go back to being a customer service company and providing freedom of choice not just freedom of Microsoft's choice for you. Enough people complain and don't like a product and it will not succeed. Look at W
  • Expectations (Score:5, Interesting)

    by webrunner (108849) on Friday April 27, 2007 @07:46AM (#18898885) Homepage Journal
    Didn't they lower their expectations in January? And now they're saying it's higher than expectations? How does that work?
    • by Billosaur (927319) *

      Wall Street Analysts lowered their expectations... undoubtedly from reading Slashdot. Microsoft knew this and therefore came up with the whole profit deferment scheme so they'd come out beating market expectations and their stock price would get a significant bump. Let's wait and see what their next earnings report looks like... I suspect it won't be nearly as nice.

  • by eebra82 (907996) on Friday April 27, 2007 @07:48AM (#18898899) Homepage
    Maybe this does make sense after all. Here's why:

    Windows XP is a very mature operating system. People rarely experience lockups (I haven't had one for months), it looks OK, it's speedy with today's hardware and it is far more secure than it was a few years ago.

    The point is that XP is good to those who currently use it. Those who want 'more' just get Vista. Maybe XP and Vista is going to co-exist longer than any of MS:es previous operating systems ever have before, simply because both products are good (or at least Vista will be in half a year or so). Previously, we had 2K and XP competing, and before that 9x/Me and 2K, where we had a clear winner in both operating systems. Now I can't say that Vista is a clear winner to XP, but rather a good 'alternative'.

    Yes, Ubuntu and OSX are great alternatives, but it takes a lot to make a user switch an operating system entirely, so I am not taking this into account.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by hexed_2050 (841538)
      It is a clear winner. Sure people on Slashdot will be the first ones to tell you it's garbage, but if you actually sit down and really go through it and learn the new security measures in Vista, you will begin to love it as a system administrator.

      Why do I say you'll love it as an administrator? Well let's just put aside for one second our gripes about Microsoft and the fact that they are a monopoly and just focus on comparing it to XP...

      What is one of the most nagging, worst things that a system admin
  • by mattgreen (701203) on Friday April 27, 2007 @07:49AM (#18898907)
    I've read so many predictions of Microsoft's demise here because of (admittedly well-founded) flaws in Vista. Surely this article is wrong! Maybe RoughlyDrafted can set the record straight for me...
  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday April 27, 2007 @07:49AM (#18898919)
    "Vista Sales Strong, Higher Than Expected "

    Then someone had better tell Ballmer. He's been saying forecasts were over-optimistic:

    "Ballmer's comments came during a conference call with financial analysts in which he repeatedly hammered home the theme that sales forecasts for Windows -- Vista in particular -- have been "overly optimistic."

    http://www.arnnet.com.au/index.php/id;7680622;fp;1 6;fpid;1 [arnnet.com.au]

    Obviously, Ballmer thinks people's "expectations" were "overly optimistic"; now we're being told they were overly pessimistic. There's a disconnect somewhere.
  • whats the prices on these things ? $299 to $550 or something ?

    and they were making Dell and other producers PUSH these with new computers. it wasnt like customers had any choice. but then again, dell did not turn on their customers and switched back to providing xp again.

    so how this is a pointer to anything ?
  • I am worried about people starting sending around stuff in vista-only formats, which will bring back the days of the "can't read your document" mails.

    As long as I can run a linux distro, if the rest of the universe prefers hogging down their hardware with vista, it's not my business.
  • FUD! (Score:2, Funny)

    by McGurk (661578)
    What is WITH all the M$ FUD on /.??? Can't you just report facts in an unbiased fashion? What's with all this "Vista will fail" shit? All this "Vista don't work" shit? All this "Vista... " wait, hold on. Vista sales exceeding expectations? Lemme check my URL, hang on... Nope, this is /. Oh, wait, it must be one of those fishing sites exploiting vulnerabilities in IE7 in order to get my OSTG login information! DAMN YOU HACKERS!!
    • by geekoid (135745)
      Because:
      a) Vista seems to not be as well received.
      b) Numbers like these dn't have much meaning by themselves.
      c) They have deffered expenses to forth qtr.

      There are several reasons for a company to do that, but considering MSs available cash and size, the ONLY reason for them to do that is to try and keep investors around another quarter and to have more time to push Vista in hopes of making up the difference.

      This explains some of MSs moves in the last month or so. Based on some market advisors* is Vista does
  • The performance is measured against Microsoft's public predictions. The stock market punishes severely any company that underperforms the predictions, thus, there is a real incentive to understate expectations, if one can still show growth.

    So, is Vista a failure if it causes more XP licenses to sell? Money is money, one may argue. I expect that Microsoft really thinks about targets for the cash cow products not in terms of revenue goals, but in terms of installed base goals. If we see Vista discount pricin

  • M$ is lying (Score:4, Informative)

    by surfduke (656872) on Friday April 27, 2007 @08:11AM (#18899137)
    Folks.... it's a complete and utter smoke and mirror trick so investors won't begin bailing out. I sell Technology products to Schools and Universities.... To date, not one of our 4000 clients have ordered Vista. For those who have ordered new computers, 100% of them have said they will be erasing and putting XP on the new machine. Vista is as complete disaster for M$. It's their Newton.
    • by Gonarat (177568) *

      For those who have ordered new computers, 100% of them have said they will be erasing and putting XP on the new machine.

      The only thing about that is that Microsoft still gets to count each of those PCs as a Vista Sale and those dollars will go into their till. If they buy a copy of XP to put on those machines, then Microsoft wins again. Even if Vista is wiped and Ubuntu is put on the machine, the Vista sale still goes into the books.

      The only way to avoid paying the "Vista tax" is to buy or build a PC wit

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by laffer1 (701823)
      You contradict yourself. If they ordered a new PC with Vista, then they did order Vista. Just because they choose not to use it does not mean it doesn't count as a sale.

      I can also explain the reasoning behind not upgrading. Many software applications do not run properly on Vista. Some require software upgrades. Schools have to roll out a lot of money to get new versions of software if they even exist. I am a sys admin for a computer science department. (labs + servers) We are 50/50 Mac/PC. We have
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by imsirovic5 (542929)
      I happen to work on Wall Street, and the ignorance of how some people perceive the financial markets is just amazing. I am sure "surfduke" is way smarter than the analysts than the following Analysts that follow MSFT:

      A. G. EDWARDS & SONS, INC. KEVIN BUTTIGIEG
      ARGUS RESEARCH CORP. ROBERT BECKER
      ATLANTIC EQUITIES CHRISTOPHER HICKEY
      BANC OF AMERICA SECURITIES LLC. KIRK S. MATERNE
      BEAR, STEARNS & CO. JOHN DIFUCCI
      CANACCORD ADAMS PETER MISEK
      CIBC WORLD MARKETS CORP. BRAD REBACK
      CITIGROUP BRENT THILL
      COWEN AND CO
  • by cordsie (565171) on Friday April 27, 2007 @08:14AM (#18899163)
    The way I see it, this can be one of two things:

    1) Vista is actually being well received, and selling like hotcakes despite all reports to the contrary.
    2) Even MS-Excel has critical bugs when running under Vista, especially the version used by Microsoft's accounting department.
  • Or at least that's what they're saying here [slashdot.org]...
  • by Anonymous Coward
    How many times have we seen companies play games with the books to beat Wall Street expectations only to have to restate those earnings later? In short, who the hell knows what state MS is actually in?

    Fas as whether MS is "dying," that's a bit of a tautology. When you're the dominant operating system of planet Earth, where do you go next? Mars needs Windows? There is only one direction for them to go and it ain't up.

    You know, IBM beat back the government's anti-trust suit against them only to, in time, reso
  • by Dukebytes (525932) <dukebytes&yahoo,com> on Friday April 27, 2007 @08:34AM (#18899367) Homepage
    I just spec'd out a new Dell for my dad. He wanted XP on it - but it only came with Vista. I told him that it should be OK......

    He IS NOT a geek. But he does all his work and some photo stuff on his notebook and desktop. He HATED Vista. No driver for the printer, some software he uses won't work, had trouble with the camera etc... He was pretty pi$$ed when I talked to him... I told him maybe we could get Dell to give us XP and send Vista back and that would fix everything... (he has XP on the laptop and its OK :)

    I tried to get Dell to trade it in, or give me credit, a discount on XP or something like that... but they blew me off and told me that I would have to send back the machine so I could then order the "open source" version. I talked to my dad and he just went nuts for a while and them said he would take care of it... So I figured that he was going to send back the machine and let me build one for him...

    NOPE - he gave M$ more money and they also have another "Vista" user on the books... He went out and just bought a full version of XP. I didn't say anything other than OK I'll be up and get it loaded for ya... You have to know my dad... I already found all the drivers that he needs for XP. So everything should be fine.....

    BUT IT JUST SUCKS!!!! I freakin HATE MS for this kind of stuff. Did you know that you CAN NOT downgrade Vista Home(any version) to XP - BUT the business versions are ALL downgradeable. You wouldn't want FORD to not buy windows because they have to use the CUTTING EDGE CRAP that we will be QCing for them for the next six months. BUT its OK to screw joe user at home!!! I dont know why they would even make some one PAY for an OS at home.... I guess that 70trillion dollars a year from the businesses just ins't enough.

    I would love to load BSD/ubuntu/etc... on my pops machine - I really would. But he's 60ish and NOT a geek and its just not there yet.

    Yea M$ sales are up and they should have a column on the sheet that is headed "Customers outright screw and we still made money."

    Geesh, I should learn how to write code so I can contrib...

    Duke

  • The rumors of Vista's demise are greatly exaggerated.
  • Remember (Score:3, Insightful)

    by geekoid (135745) <`moc.oohay' `ta' `dnaltropnidad'> on Friday April 27, 2007 @08:43AM (#18899469) Homepage Journal
    accounting is funny stuff.

    This goes for ANY company:
    When a company seems to be doing better then the market indicates, look at the numbers very closly.

    Were there 'expectations' lower than reasonable? Are they counting units moved to outlets, or the unit's then sold?

    What is there deal with outlets? can they return unsold stock*? How many lisenses did DELL purchase that it's not using?

  • Windows =computer.

    There will always be a lot of sissies, that use "computers". And computers are those with this cute start button in the left corner, right. The reality is, that those are the majority of the people. This is a fact.

    So there was this previous Wins family and there will be the Vista generation. Very few will actually pay for it (predominantly those who must), but most of earthlings will use it. What can we do about the stupidity of earthlings ? Do we have to do something ? Maybe we should.
  • Guess the several individual /. posts about doom and gloom for Vista and MSFT may have been just a little overblown....
    • by geekoid (135745)
      If you read the article, you will note that the only way they did this was by pushing expenses off to 4Q.
      Clearly this is an invester hand job* . lets see what the end of Q1 has to say.

      *actually MA term. seriously, I hear it all the time.
  • Vista Sales Strong, Higher Than Expected
    Expected by who - the Slashdot crowd, or the rest of the world?
  • ...that's what we've drummed into our kids.

    If MS is lying, or even overstating its earnings, it will be just a matter of time before bad things catch up with them. Witness the Apple CFO [slashdot.org] mess.
    On the other hand, if their earnings reflect the positive reception of Vista, then good for them. As far as I'm concerned, the more OSs there are to play with, the merrier any geek will be (by discovering something new and shiny, or by making $ from fixing people's machines because of various OS "features").

    I
  • I've only heard one story of "I bought Vista", and I've heard it repeatedly, and I've witnessed it first-hand:
    My Boss bought a new laptop. It came with Vista.
    There was not one 3rd-party thing we were currently using which worked on the laptop.
    There were several Microsoft Products which did not work on the laptop. (read: everything that came pre-installed seemed to be working, nothing we had, and required (like Office and Visual Studio) worked.)

    So he installed XP and everything works now.

    Vista "sales" number
  • by dAzED1 (33635) on Friday April 27, 2007 @09:14AM (#18899923) Homepage Journal
    What I find funny is when people laugh and say it's indicative of a failure when Dell et al. start selling systems with XP again instead of Vista. Um, hello? So far as I know, XP is from Microsoft too. The failure I'm looking for is when Dell and such start selling systems with something not made by MS. And I'm not talking about the times they've charged the same (or sometimes, much more) for putting some random distro of Linux on the boxes. I'm talking about Dell putting their own little touches on RH-workstation, or Ubuntu, just like they do with Windows. Actually *selling* the systems, not just offering them on an obscure corner of the web page. Things like mentioning the extra virus safety inherent in the alternatives, for example. Or better, when someone like Sony stops using directX, and puts out all their games in OpenGL. Then, sells a single install DVD that will install on either windows or Linux, because fark, there's not *that* much extra they'd have to do to develop in parallel. Yeah, I know, Loki. Guess what, Loki didn't have the luxury of doing it side-by-side, they simply ported the games others made. I also think Loki would do much better in 2007 and beyond than they did prior to closing in 2001/2002. But yeah, back on point...XP still puts money in MS's coffers, and realistically, for most people the things that are slowing down tech purchases right now have little to do with MS. 1) stupidly power-hungry components, esp video cards and processors 2) blue-ray vrs HD-dvd war 3) availability of directX 10 cards (which should have happened by now, even if MS was slow giving out specs)
  • by haakondahl (893488) on Friday April 27, 2007 @09:20AM (#18900007)

    An anonymous reader writes "Despite reports, it seems Microsoft is not only alive, but has been thriving these last few months.


    An anonymous reader from http://marketing.microsoft.com/Vista/PhaseII/Oh_Sh it.aspx [microsoft.com] ...

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